A week on after "changes" thief sucks in wvw — Guild Wars 2 Forums

A week on after "changes" thief sucks in wvw

LaFurion.3167LaFurion.3167 Member ✭✭✭

Tried to play my thief I really did. It was my main for a while. Since the change to swipe I have given up on dagger main hand.

I feel like in wvw thief is in a terrible spot. Can't zerg and for "roaming" you don't have enough damage to even do half a warclaws hp bar to dismount them. And when you do dismount people you have no energy and probably used shadow step or steal just to stick to and take mount down. Plus you are down all your initiative.

The only dagger thief builds I see are full glass back stab thieves. You cannot fight somebody as a daredevil or even core with dagger mainhand and win since you are at a serious serious disadvantage. And the amount of passives in the game warrior and ranger auto invuln namely, coupled with INSANE damage from aoe if you are near means the only way for a thief to "win" is to just one shot. If you fail this you lose.

When was the last time you had a -fight- with a thief? Like a proper fight. Supposed to be assassin class that excell in duels but we are among the weakest hitting and squishiest classes...

Gonna just go full dire renegade or warrior who's bulls charge crits for 9k, or move my gear to ranger and laugh at every thief I come across as 1/3rd of rapid fire kills them with sic me.

Also can dagger thief even get scrapper or holo below 90% hp without dying? I haven't seen it.

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Comments

  • LaFurion.3167LaFurion.3167 Member ✭✭✭

    Makes me so sad how bad thief is at the moment and that is just wvw. I don't want them to be broken and I hated dead eye but still... thief NEEDS changes or buffs

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭

    ye well daredevil still works (no its not good) but u just gotta blow half your kitten to close a gap meanwhile every other classes nowadays ports around like a idiot so u most likely gotta reclose a gap again which is nearly impossible.

    only thing somewhat playable is S/D but it doesnt have the burst.
    but u could play s/d and d/p, dismounting with d/p is easy if u use s/d for gap closer :X.

    none the less id say put swipe back to its orginal range.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Staff thief is more survivable than it was pre-patch, though it lost 2 damage modifiers in exchange for 240 power. Feels okay to use, but 900 range swipe would feel much better

  • Zephyra.4709Zephyra.4709 Member ✭✭✭

    Been seeing less of them ever since they introduced tiered up towers + sentries actually applying reveal if you camp stealth for too long. Also the nerfs to DE rifle dodge stealth? Not sure what it's called. Then there's the steal range on DD reduced to 600.... yikes. And lastly, warkitty mount so even more HP to go through. As much as I dislike fighting thieves in WvW I think they've got hit pretty hard with all these changes, indirect or not. I haven't even logged onto my condi DD evade spam build in a while. It probably still works but why bother when you can delete people with brain dead pew pew SBeast or facetank with Sbreaker/holo, let alone AoE plenty 'fire & forget' skills... it's kinda fallen out of favor dagger getting up close and personal with your enemy on such a squishy class unless you're also running acro line.

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 3, 2019

    @LaFurion.3167 said:
    Tried to play my thief I really did. It was my main for a while. Since the change to swipe I have given up on dagger main hand.

    I feel like in wvw thief is in a terrible spot. Can't zerg and for "roaming" you don't have enough damage to even do half a warclaws hp bar to dismount them. And when you do dismount people you have no energy and probably used shadow step or steal just to stick to and take mount down. Plus you are down all your initiative.

    The only dagger thief builds I see are full glass back stab thieves. You cannot fight somebody as a daredevil or even core with dagger mainhand and win since you are at a serious serious disadvantage. And the amount of passives in the game warrior and ranger auto invuln namely, coupled with INSANE damage from aoe if you are near means the only way for a thief to "win" is to just one shot. If you fail this you lose.

    When was the last time you had a -fight- with a thief? Like a proper fight. Supposed to be assassin class that excell in duels but we are among the weakest hitting and squishiest classes...

    Gonna just go full dire renegade or warrior who's bulls charge crits for 9k, or move my gear to ranger and laugh at every thief I come across as 1/3rd of rapid fire kills them with sic me.

    Also can dagger thief even get scrapper or holo below 90% hp without dying? I haven't seen it.

    Em, did you know that there has been for a while competitive build called s/d core?
    Yes, I have to admit that after Swipe addition im not touching d/p DD. Even with a stick. But s/d core is fine and working. In the beginning it will look like all actions are 50% slower than d/p, but you will get used to it.
    One shot builds are silly and I don't have any respect to those that plays them, especially Malicious Backstab DEs (where you lost your dignity bois?). Good teef doesnt need that to kill someone, trust me.

    Scrapper might be kinda painful and time-wasting, but for example if you make good use of flanking strike its possible beating most of them. Of course best will probably survive at 30% hp, recover and it will end being stalemate, but w/e. Same goes with holos, it just ends up being harder fight for thief and good holo shouldn't lose, this class just needs to smash its skills and there's 99% chances that he will hit with something and its gonna hurt, hurt pretty bad.
    Its not the easiest time for teefs, but its still really playable.

    Just dodge, outsmart, disengage during spikes and interrupt important skills. You should be fine for most of the time.

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons

  • Bezerker.2379Bezerker.2379 Member ✭✭✭

    @LaFurion.3167 said:
    Tried to play my thief I really did. It was my main for a while. Since the change to swipe I have given up on dagger main hand.

    I feel like in wvw thief is in a terrible spot. Can't zerg and for "roaming" you don't have enough damage to even do half a warclaws hp bar to dismount them. And when you do dismount people you have no energy and probably used shadow step or steal just to stick to and take mount down. Plus you are down all your initiative.

    The only dagger thief builds I see are full glass back stab thieves. You cannot fight somebody as a daredevil or even core with dagger mainhand and win since you are at a serious serious disadvantage. And the amount of passives in the game warrior and ranger auto invuln namely, coupled with INSANE damage from aoe if you are near means the only way for a thief to "win" is to just one shot. If you fail this you lose.

    When was the last time you had a -fight- with a thief? Like a proper fight. Supposed to be assassin class that excell in duels but we are among the weakest hitting and squishiest classes...

    Gonna just go full dire renegade or warrior who's bulls charge crits for 9k, or move my gear to ranger and laugh at every thief I come across as 1/3rd of rapid fire kills them with sic me.

    Also can dagger thief even get scrapper or holo below 90% hp without dying? I haven't seen it.

    Try vallun's hybrid build. Stacking 5-10 stacks of poison from auto chains is nice. Its cleansible, but I've had good luck with it.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @reddie.5861 said:
    ye well daredevil still works (no its not good) but u just gotta blow half your kitten to close a gap meanwhile every other classes nowadays ports around like a idiot so u most likely gotta reclose a gap again which is nearly impossible.

    only thing somewhat playable is S/D but it doesnt have the burst.
    but u could play s/d and d/p, dismounting with d/p is easy if u use s/d for gap closer :X.

    none the less id say put swipe back to its orginal range.

    Swindlers Equilibrium and the new Weakening Strikes minor trait I think bring sword mh to a nice threshold and under quickness if someone is killable you should close them out before they get away.

    @Blockhead Magee.3092 said:
    My hate for stealth remains as strong today as it was when GW2 was released. Thief has always been the most hated user of that hated skill. I cheer every nerf and continue to hunt and kill thieves whenever they rear their low down, dirty, evil face. Manta is: All thieves must die! Nerf them to the ground and eliminate the class.

    Aside from that, yeah, thief took a big hit and aren't as much of a threat as they used to be.

    If you're capable of hunting down and killing all of those thieves, what exactly is your problem? Thieves have already been nerfed to the ground, if the class were eliminated however, what would be your new excuse to rage over a game mechanic that frustrates you?

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • @kash.9213 said:

    @reddie.5861 said:
    ye well daredevil still works (no its not good) but u just gotta blow half your kitten to close a gap meanwhile every other classes nowadays ports around like a idiot so u most likely gotta reclose a gap again which is nearly impossible.

    only thing somewhat playable is S/D but it doesnt have the burst.
    but u could play s/d and d/p, dismounting with d/p is easy if u use s/d for gap closer :X.

    none the less id say put swipe back to its orginal range.

    Swindlers Equilibrium and the new Weakening Strikes minor trait I think bring sword mh to a nice threshold and under quickness if someone is killable you should close them out before they get away.

    @Blockhead Magee.3092 said:
    My hate for stealth remains as strong today as it was when GW2 was released. Thief has always been the most hated user of that hated skill. I cheer every nerf and continue to hunt and kill thieves whenever they rear their low down, dirty, evil face. Manta is: All thieves must die! Nerf them to the ground and eliminate the class.

    Aside from that, yeah, thief took a big hit and aren't as much of a threat as they used to be.

    If you're capable of hunting down and killing all of those thieves, what exactly is your problem? Thieves have already been nerfed to the ground, if the class were eliminated however, what would be your new excuse to rage over a game mechanic that frustrates you?

    I'd be to busy partying about the demise of thief to be frustrated by anything!

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    I run core S/D with great success. D/P DD is harder now but I'm still able to pull of some cheeky plays with have a ton of unblockable uptime between my steal and basi venom. D/D just isn't a great combo for WvW/PvP for any build really. Your giving up blinds, dazes, or shadowstep for an evade (which you get on S/D anyways) and some damage. Just isn't really worth using even as cool as it is.

    No longer playing the game due to PvP being abandon.

  • JonnyForgotten.4276JonnyForgotten.4276 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bezerker.2379 said:

    @LaFurion.3167 said:
    Tried to play my thief I really did. It was my main for a while. Since the change to swipe I have given up on dagger main hand.

    I feel like in wvw thief is in a terrible spot. Can't zerg and for "roaming" you don't have enough damage to even do half a warclaws hp bar to dismount them. And when you do dismount people you have no energy and probably used shadow step or steal just to stick to and take mount down. Plus you are down all your initiative.

    The only dagger thief builds I see are full glass back stab thieves. You cannot fight somebody as a daredevil or even core with dagger mainhand and win since you are at a serious serious disadvantage. And the amount of passives in the game warrior and ranger auto invuln namely, coupled with INSANE damage from aoe if you are near means the only way for a thief to "win" is to just one shot. If you fail this you lose.

    When was the last time you had a -fight- with a thief? Like a proper fight. Supposed to be assassin class that excell in duels but we are among the weakest hitting and squishiest classes...

    Gonna just go full dire renegade or warrior who's bulls charge crits for 9k, or move my gear to ranger and laugh at every thief I come across as 1/3rd of rapid fire kills them with sic me.

    Also can dagger thief even get scrapper or holo below 90% hp without dying? I haven't seen it.

    Try vallun's hybrid build. Stacking 5-10 stacks of poison from auto chains is nice. Its cleansible, but I've had good luck with it.

    Been running p/d, sb or double sb hybrid recently, and it's really not too bad. The unblockable on swipe really shines landing the big condi steal burst. . . plus I am pleased that I can run EF and ID at the same time. :)

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I really dislike the range nerf on Steal, and OP got a Thumbs Up from me.

    But...maybe you guys should say Good Bye to your old school Thief builds. I'm with @Blockhead Magee.3092 when it comes to stealth play. I despise it. I mainly play Daredevil, and the only stealth I use is the one you sometimes get from Steal. When a stealth Thief shows up and tries to "fight", I just leave. What's in it for me when the backstabbing starts or Infiltrator's Striking? Nothing of value. The old school thief builds were mainly used for ganking, and that's where the terrible rep of Thieves comes from. It's easy to imagine a non-thief player believing that behind the screen of a Thief character sits a kitten. There were simply too many people who used Thief for the only purpose to stealth gank other players.

    While the nerf on Steal was uncalled for, I can still play quite well with my DD, using Staff and Pistols. You can imagine hhow often I was whispered by other players to not use pistols. But they work great for me. I don't have any issues dismounting people. Yesterday we took two keeps in EB and kept the enemy from entering while our siege operators did their hard but honest work. I just placed myself at the stairs and had Assassin's Signet and Haste ready. When I saw the riders approaching, I triggered both of them and got most enemies from their Warclaw with a single Unload. Unless they save all jumps for the last meters, they are done.

    I happened to log in yesterday without changing my gear from Berserker + Scholar Runes. I just wanted to get the dailies done when a comm tagged up and invited people to take the castle. I was in full power setup and thought why not, it's just a peaceful takeover. I usually switch to Marauders and other runes or play a Scourge in a zerg. Unexpected to me, we faced significant resistance inside the castle. It turned out that my squad mates were great supporters and I was able to do well in big fights with 12k health and a glass build. Afterwards we had a 25 minutes bag farm at their Keep and my staff DD did quite well. Survival was pretty good with the heals, cleanses and buffs from the other classes. I did almost as much total damage as the Warrior with top dps in the group. Thief can be a viable class outside of organized meta groups. But not with the stealth ganking builds you guys are complaining about.

    Your beloved Short Bow for example is simply outdated. Once I was runnning next to a Thief who used sb #5 for travelling, and he wasn't even faster than me using Dash. When I tested it, #5 was so slow, I was almost already at the target spot when I got ported. And when you eventually arrive, you have to wait for your Initiative to restore.

    And that is the real crux with Thief: Initiative. While basically all other classes have tons of skills available, can even swap weapons and have fresh skills, when we run out of Initiative, we are out of the fight. Other classes can send a perma-barrage of damage skills your way, while you have 3 or 4 shots really. Also, it means that we really can only choose one trait line freely. Trickery is a must because of the additional Initiative. Daredevil is a must. You can only pick one other trait line, which is kind of limiting.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Staff dd is better now, but d/p is riperino :(

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • ruller.2084ruller.2084 Member ✭✭

    @Faaris.8013 said:
    I really dislike the range nerf on Steal, and OP got a Thumbs Up from me.

    But...maybe you guys should say Good Bye to your old school Thief builds. I'm with @Blockhead Magee.3092 when it comes to stealth play. I despise it. I mainly play Daredevil, and the only stealth I use is the one you sometimes get from Steal. When a stealth Thief shows up and tries to "fight", I just leave. What's in it for me when the backstabbing starts or Infiltrator's Striking? Nothing of value. The old school thief builds were mainly used for ganking, and that's where the terrible rep of Thieves comes from. It's easy to imagine a non-thief player believing that behind the screen of a Thief character sits a kitten. There were simply too many people who used Thief for the only purpose to stealth gank other players.

    While the nerf on Steal was uncalled for, I can still play quite well with my DD, using Staff and Pistols. You can imagine hhow often I was whispered by other players to not use pistols. But they work great for me. I don't have any issues dismounting people. Yesterday we took two keeps in EB and kept the enemy from entering while our siege operators did their hard but honest work. I just placed myself at the stairs and had Assassin's Signet and Haste ready. When I saw the riders approaching, I triggered both of them and got most enemies from their Warclaw with a single Unload. Unless they save all jumps for the last meters, they are done.

    I happened to log in yesterday without changing my gear from Berserker + Scholar Runes. I just wanted to get the dailies done when a comm tagged up and invited people to take the castle. I was in full power setup and thought why not, it's just a peaceful takeover. I usually switch to Marauders and other runes or play a Scourge in a zerg. Unexpected to me, we faced significant resistance inside the castle. It turned out that my squad mates were great supporters and I was able to do well in big fights with 12k health and a glass build. Afterwards we had a 25 minutes bag farm at their Keep and my staff DD did quite well. Survival was pretty good with the heals, cleanses and buffs from the other classes. I did almost as much total damage as the Warrior with top dps in the group. Thief can be a viable class outside of organized meta groups. But not with the stealth ganking builds you guys are complaining about.

    Your beloved Short Bow for example is simply outdated. Once I was runnning next to a Thief who used sb #5 for travelling, and he wasn't even faster than me using Dash. When I tested it, #5 was so slow, I was almost already at the target spot when I got ported. And when you eventually arrive, you have to wait for your Initiative to restore.

    And that is the real crux with Thief: Initiative. While basically all other classes have tons of skills available, can even swap weapons and have fresh skills, when we run out of Initiative, we are out of the fight. Other classes can send a perma-barrage of damage skills your way, while you have 3 or 4 shots really. Also, it means that we really can only choose one trait line freely. Trickery is a must because of the additional Initiative. Daredevil is a must. You can only pick one other trait line, which is kind of limiting.

    Okay so you need to understand that literally anything works fine when you're a zerling, just because its not on metabattle or in your worlds build spreadsheet doesnt make it bad. Literally anything that does damage will work with a zerg.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019

    Thief I literally a garbage class now, good job arenanet. DD is over all worse now at what it did.adding like 2% more sustain to a class that has horrible sustain will not make it a viable brawler. The range nerf hit d/p hard, a already weak build. DE stealth was nerfed for what? So u could give scrapper 15 sec of it at push of button(now 12) and recently mesmers stealth. While DE the stealth sniperclass had to spend 80% of its playtime leaping through smoke fields lmao like seriously? Here comes another ban for saying somthing negative about the company lmao ridiculous.

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ruller.2084 said:
    Okay so you need to understand that literally anything works fine when you're a zerling, just because its not on metabattle or in your worlds build spreadsheet doesnt make it bad. Literally anything that does damage will work with a zerg.

    This is just my way of rationalising why I play a class that sucks compared to all other classes. Truth is, why should anyone pick thief for anything except stealth ganking? I find no rational reasons to do that, I'm just kind of emotionally connected to the class.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    thiefs are bit useless in combat due the amount of aoe spam game has nothing more, thief is fine, game aoe spam design isnt it....

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thief the assassin class is fine but bit useless in combat? Lol the class is the worst 1v1 class while being the most glassy. Right now it's only a viable runner to decap nodes. In wvw their a joke beyond meme builds. I love seeing on my reaper lol they either run or die in seconds, must be fun for em. They are far from fine.

  • I dont know about the thf nerfs as i never played one. all i know is they are boring as kitten to fight in wvw. every thf i fight 100% goes like this .... pew pew pew *i approach, -thf vanishes and appears at random location a few second later , pew pew pew, and so on. and if i managed to hit it at all. hes back at full health , fight starts over again thanks to their unlimted reset button. so they are broing af to fight because its always the same disappearing gun you down kitten

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Thief I literally a garbage class now, good job arenanet. DD is over all worse now at what it did.adding like 2% more sustain to a class that has horrible sustain will not make it a viable brawler. The range nerf hit d/p hard, a already weak build. DE stealth was nerfed for what? So u could give scrapper 15 sec of it at push of button(now 12) and recently mesmers stealth. While DE the stealth sniperclass had to spend 80% of its playtime leaping through smoke fields lmao like seriously? Here comes another ban for saying somthing negative about the company lmao ridiculous.

    Friend, if you claim that thief is garbage, especially in wvw, I would suspect your honesty. Thief, although not even close to what it was before HoT, is not in "that" bad state. With the recent preparations introduction, it quickly became a valuable asset for havoc squads and for some zergs. Paired with a mesmer, it is the best possible tower flipper in my opinion. And you can easily one shot many professions. About DD, i feel it works ok-ish but I have been playing dd with my thief for 4 years and never liked another weapon set (except for D/P craze with daredevil). So I am biased about that.

    Problem is that anet balance team cannot decide what to do with thief (and mesmer). Will it be an assassin? A duelist? A brawler? A mobility class? Stealth class? So on. I am gravely pessimistic about thief and mesmer professions' future.

  • nthmetal.9652nthmetal.9652 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    I really don't get it. I don't play thief, of course, but looking at it from the outside, I'd say they are still highly dangerous. You don't see them coming, you can't grab hold of them (where is that teleport, that everyone seems to have for my spellbreaker?), some pewpew you from distance, others jump in, dish out damage, jump out again. When you finally think you can grab hold of them, they disappear. Some elite spec even disappears right after being revealed.
    The only time I am pretty safe from them is, if I'm on my warclaw and heading toward a safe objective. And even then: If it's more than one person ganking me, I am far from safe.

    No, I don't feel sorry for you thieves out there. I might be, one day, but until reveals are a lot more common, that's not gonna happen.

    "and then we know that we have looked back through the ivory gates into that world of wonder which was ours before we were wise and unhappy"
    -- H. P. Lovecraft - Celephais

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Still fight plenty of good thieves in wvw, and on all 3 specs, unlike say mesmer which now have no choice but mirage and barely even see mesmers around now, everyone is on their warrior thief eng ranger, even revs, for roaming and small groups.

    If you're trying to zerg or not picking the right squishy targets as a thief I dunno what to tell you.

    Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" - "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon." - "Woo!"
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WaH!"
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blockhead Magee.3092 said:
    My hate for stealth remains as strong today as it was when GW2 was released. Thief has always been the most hated user of that hated skill. I cheer every nerf and continue to hunt and kill thieves whenever they rear their low down, dirty, evil face. Manta is: All thieves must die! Nerf them to the ground and eliminate the class.

    Aside from that, yeah, thief took a big hit and aren't as much of a threat as they used to be.

    The problem isn't stealth. Stealth as a mechanic is fine. The problem is there should be a tradeoff for being able to stealth, i.e you move slower (you are trying to be sneaky). Also, once in combat, it should prevent being able to restealth (I can see deadeye being the exception to this, but with a single restealth, not an ammo skill). Stealth should not be a timed thing, it should just be a thing (turn on, turn off - no timer). Players should also be able to see a stealthed player if they walk through them (very small radius around them). There are soo many things Anet could do to fix the problem with the games stealth mechanics, but I doubt anything will ever change. In fact, they keep adding bonuses for being in stealth, like superspeed, which compounds the problems.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ubi.4136 said:

    @Blockhead Magee.3092 said:
    My hate for stealth remains as strong today as it was when GW2 was released. Thief has always been the most hated user of that hated skill. I cheer every nerf and continue to hunt and kill thieves whenever they rear their low down, dirty, evil face. Manta is: All thieves must die! Nerf them to the ground and eliminate the class.

    Aside from that, yeah, thief took a big hit and aren't as much of a threat as they used to be.

    The problem isn't stealth. Stealth as a mechanic is fine. The problem is there should be a tradeoff for being able to stealth, i.e you move slower (you are trying to be sneaky). Also, once in combat, it should prevent being able to restealth (I can see deadeye being the exception to this, but with a single restealth, not an ammo skill). Stealth should not be a timed thing, it should just be a thing (turn on, turn off - no timer). Players should also be able to see a stealthed player if they walk through them (very small radius around them). There are soo many things Anet could do to fix the problem with the games stealth mechanics, but I doubt anything will ever change. In fact, they keep adding bonuses for being in stealth, like superspeed, which compounds the problems.

    The tradeoff is that we have no access to stability, and extremely limited access to block (one skill, daredevil only) and protection (one trait, DE only). One hit against a Thief chunks 1/3 of their hp most of the time. I would gladly accept your proposals for the fair trade of Thief buffs that comes with them. The question is would you like fighting Thieves better when they have 15k base hp, access to perma protection and good stability and blocks?

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • so what? thieves hit me for 1/2 of my hp all the time. Out of stealth of course. Jumping around like mad.

    Thief players, you are complaining? Really? As a medium armored class that does not have to fight if it doesn't want to? YOU are complaining? What is next? Rangers complaining about lack of range?

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2019

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    Yeah, it must be tough feeling like an average joe after being top dog for years.

    Lmao... thats funny...

    It would really suck if some classes were better at some things than others aye...

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @ruller.2084 said:
    Okay so you need to understand that literally anything works fine when you're a zerling, just because its not on metabattle or in your worlds build spreadsheet doesnt make it bad. Literally anything that does damage will work with a zerg.

    This is just my way of rationalising why I play a class that sucks compared to all other classes. Truth is, why should anyone pick thief for anything except stealth ganking? I find no rational reasons to do that, I'm just kind of emotionally connected to the class.

    That's the answer every thief player would ever give...."stealth ganking", until recently it could be done with impunity and thief players want that to return to the dismay of the rest of the community.

    "kitten up ....hmm np though" infliltrator's return and all is fine while the enemy spent important CD to avoid being 2 shotted, a 1200 range get of jail on demand

    "Time to disapppear"...np shortbow 5 and cya or stealth camping

    The ability to start and ending fights at will with impunity..is what will always attract nerfs unless that get fixed at design level

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Magnuzone.8395Magnuzone.8395 Member ✭✭✭

    @LaFurion.3167 said:
    Tried to play my thief I really did. It was my main for a while. Since the change to swipe I have given up on dagger main hand.

    I feel like in wvw thief is in a terrible spot. Can't zerg and for "roaming" you don't have enough damage to even do half a warclaws hp bar to dismount them. And when you do dismount people you have no energy and probably used shadow step or steal just to stick to and take mount down. Plus you are down all your initiative.

    The only dagger thief builds I see are full glass back stab thieves. You cannot fight somebody as a daredevil or even core with dagger mainhand and win since you are at a serious serious disadvantage. And the amount of passives in the game warrior and ranger auto invuln namely, coupled with INSANE damage from aoe if you are near means the only way for a thief to "win" is to just one shot. If you fail this you lose.

    When was the last time you had a -fight- with a thief? Like a proper fight. Supposed to be assassin class that excell in duels but we are among the weakest hitting and squishiest classes...

    Gonna just go full dire renegade or warrior who's bulls charge crits for 9k, or move my gear to ranger and laugh at every thief I come across as 1/3rd of rapid fire kills them with sic me.

    Also can dagger thief even get scrapper or holo below 90% hp without dying? I haven't seen it.

    Thief is the weakest and most redundand class in gw2. Glass thieves is the only thing you can play and then you are OP, Otherwise you don't do anythiong.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is thieves, we're the only ones running glassy to get our stealth one shot kills, only 13k hp poor us, meanwhile in wvw they're running around with 12 boons tanky evading everything, porting all over and still getting kills. If that doesn't describe you then maybe it's, as you would tell other classes, a learn to play issue.

    Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" - "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon." - "Woo!"
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WaH!"
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Lol, thread necro much.

    Thief has some stuff that still works, mainly gank builds. The thing I'd ask non thief players to think about is why do you not see tank thieves, healing thieves, etc?

    They're simply not viable, that's why. We have one niche; high damage with high mobility or stealth in order to +1 or gank, and in order to achieve that damage, we have to be glass (yes, marauder is still glass when you start with 12k health, have no blocks or protection outside of one skill/trait each that can't be taken together, and when every class can pull off 20k combos should they wish).

    The only other niche we used to have was condi, but with the amount of cleanse on some classes these days plus antitoxin rune and cleansing sigil that's now an exercise in futility. So when our niche gets nerfed either directly or indirectly, it disproportionately affects the class as there is no effective way to play thief other than than that one niche. Other classes can swap roles easily, we can't.

    So yeah, thief does still do what it does better than most. We're just seeing other classes get damage and mobility comparable to thief on top of their usual advantages and wondering what the trade-off is supposed to be, and if there isn't one, why are thieves forced into a niche as a trade-off for what we do? As Turk said, a lot of us would happily give up the stealth, but how would you feel if we had higher health plus access to blocks and protection to compensate?

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    Actually it's not the fact that Thieves can't roam anymore, it's the fact Mounts essentially killed any class which used to capitalize on mobility advantage against other roamers.

    Thieves used to be one of the few classes which had unparalleled catching and escaping power, along with Soulbeast and Warrior.

    The introduction of Mounts made it so that defenders can reach yu quicker, Defenders are immune to yur opening burst (which is extremely important to Thief) and Defenders can basically stay on pace or outpace yu with Mounts.

    Adding onto the fact Thieves have weak presence in Zerg fights, Thieves are being pushed to either Deadeyes, or just stop roaming altogether.

    Yu still see DDs and Cores here and there, but they are usually running around in Havocs or Pug zergs, and are there to catch Zerg tails, Scout and tap, and use Stealth to drop Portal/ use Siege disablers.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    This is thieves, we're the only ones running glassy to get our stealth one shot kills, only 13k hp poor us, meanwhile in wvw they're running around with 12 boons tanky evading everything, porting all over and still getting kills. If that doesn't describe you then maybe it's, as you would tell other classes, a learn to play issue.

    My stat damage isn't great but I get bonus damage for taking those boons and it's less of theirs I have to chew through. They can be taken right back and I'll probably have to bail before I get nuked by something and I could die running if they have any reach.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Funny thing, I saw an entirerly new type of thief today: DE rifle condi.

    Yeah you read that right, rifle and condi. Seemed completely immortal as a roamer, like 90% uptime on stealth, always popped condis at range that locked you down, then vanished again. Sure you could knock 20-40% of hp off when you saw him, then he just stealthed and came back with 100% hp, every time. Half the time spent "fighting" him you suddenly just had condis on you that he applied while in stealth.

    TL;DR the cheese is still alive and well, situation normal.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭

    … Meanwhile, my build got stronger...

  • Taobella.6597Taobella.6597 Member ✭✭✭

    condi rifle been around for awhile but last patch make it stronger

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 11, 2019

    @Vavume.8065 said:
    … Meanwhile, my build got stronger...

    i agree

    not too long ago i was hit +1 shotted with Thief death judgement https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death's_Judgment for 24k than quickly logged out

    -Nothing changed for the better. Nothing new to complain about really. Logging in to games which promotes healthy competitive gameplay. See you guys there. have a nice day :)-
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/5756/deaths-judgment/p1

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    Funny thing, I saw an entirerly new type of thief today: DE rifle condi.

    Yeah you read that right, rifle and condi. Seemed completely immortal as a roamer, like 90% uptime on stealth, always popped condis at range that locked you down, then vanished again. Sure you could knock 20-40% of hp off when you saw him, then he just stealthed and came back with 100% hp, every time. Half the time spent "fighting" him you suddenly just had condis on you that he applied while in stealth.

    TL;DR the cheese is still alive and well, situation normal.

    This has actually existed since pof came about, people only flocked back to it after changes to deadly arts and shadow arts made more lucrative.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:
    Lol, thread necro much.

    Thief has some stuff that still works, mainly gank builds. The thing I'd ask non thief players to think about is why do you not see tank thieves, healing thieves, etc?

    They're simply not viable, that's why. We have one niche; high damage with high mobility or stealth in order to +1 or gank, and in order to achieve that damage, we have to be glass (yes, marauder is still glass when you start with 12k health, have no blocks or protection outside of one skill/trait each that can't be taken together, and when every class can pull off 20k combos should they wish).

    The only other niche we used to have was condi, but with the amount of cleanse on some classes these days plus antitoxin rune and cleansing sigil that's now an exercise in futility. So when our niche gets nerfed either directly or indirectly, it disproportionately affects the class as there is no effective way to play thief other than than that one niche. Other classes can swap roles easily, we can't.

    So yeah, thief does still do what it does better than most. We're just seeing other classes get damage and mobility comparable to thief on top of their usual advantages and wondering what the trade-off is supposed to be, and if there isn't one, why are thieves forced into a niche as a trade-off for what we do? As Turk said, a lot of us would happily give up the stealth, but how would you feel if we had higher health plus access to blocks and protection to compensate?

    It would be paradise...imagine a world where you as thief can't stealth reset when you kitten up....and people can chase you down now..no more stealth and run away...

    PLEASE PLEASE anet remove stealth from thieves and give them whatever they wish....just remove the bloody stealth uptime...I wonder how many would still play thief without stealth

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 11, 2019

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    Funny thing, I saw an entirerly new type of thief today: DE rifle condi.

    Yeah you read that right, rifle and condi. Seemed completely immortal as a roamer, like 90% uptime on stealth, always popped condis at range that locked you down, then vanished again. Sure you could knock 20-40% of hp off when you saw him, then he just stealthed and came back with 100% hp, every time. Half the time spent "fighting" him you suddenly just had condis on you that he applied while in stealth.

    TL;DR the cheese is still alive and well, situation normal.

    This has actually existed since pof came about, people only flocked back to it after changes to deadly arts and shadow arts made more lucrative.

    US servers or something?

    I've literally never seen such build on any EU tier, not even when when PoF was fresh and everyone was running DE - they where all power rifle builds. Any condi build was running other weaponry, mostly of the dump-6+-condis-in-one-trap-burst type. This thief only used the rifle and barely anything else. I suspect he even used double rifle, lol.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    Let me introduce you to online combat player mentality. People hate range, because being kited makes them feel annoyed and helpless. Instead of adapting, as they hate disrupting their min maxing builds, thry complain.

    People hate assassins. They feel powerless against them. They do not care how well the assassin prepared, what is his skill level and build etc. They hust complain.

    Dear Anet devs, may they be forced to play their own game, found a quick solution. Projectile hate for ranged (except rev but class is meh now so only thing it has is CoR dmg) and making thief a complete joke for assassinations.

    Is thief powerful? Hell yes. I feel safe when I play my thief. Is thief annoying? Hell yes. I can dodge and shadowstep/inf arrow all day and annoy the hell out of anyone except thieves. But does thief satisfy its player base? Dont think so. A class that used to be really good at assassination became a hyperactive acrobat with great dance moves.
    But it is not limited to thief sadly. Many professions lost their core archetype after HoT.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    Funny thing, I saw an entirerly new type of thief today: DE rifle condi.

    Yeah you read that right, rifle and condi. Seemed completely immortal as a roamer, like 90% uptime on stealth, always popped condis at range that locked you down, then vanished again. Sure you could knock 20-40% of hp off when you saw him, then he just stealthed and came back with 100% hp, every time. Half the time spent "fighting" him you suddenly just had condis on you that he applied while in stealth.

    TL;DR the cheese is still alive and well, situation normal.

    This has actually existed since pof came about, people only flocked back to it after changes to deadly arts and shadow arts made more lucrative.

    US servers or something?

    I've literally never seen such build on any EU tier, not even when when PoF was fresh and everyone was running DE - they where all power rifle builds. Any condi build was running other weaponry, mostly of the dump-6+-condis-in-one-trap-burst type. This thief only used the rifle and barely anything else. I suspect he even used double rifle, lol.

    Yeah it was used both na and eu, but of course it was not as prevalent as stealth de. It had a resurgence when World of enders made a vid on it, then it went away, and made one more return with a long void, and now it's back again. It wasn't used much because it was niche immob spam and poison etc. When pof came out I made condi and hybrid variants but I prefer hybrid one for rifle. Condi can still work as you are offloading most of it not from the rifle itself but from marked/stolen skill/util

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 11, 2019

    @alain.1659 said:
    Let me introduce you to online combat player mentality. People hate range, because being kited makes them feel annoyed and helpless. Instead of adapting, as they hate disrupting their min maxing builds, thry complain.

    People hate assassins. They feel powerless against them. They do not care how well the assassin prepared, what is his skill level and build etc. They hust complain.

    Dear Anet devs, may they be forced to play their own game, found a quick solution. Projectile hate for ranged (except rev but class is meh now so only thing it has is CoR dmg) and making thief a complete joke for assassinations.

    Is thief powerful? Hell yes. I feel safe when I play my thief. Is thief annoying? Hell yes. I can dodge and shadowstep/inf arrow all day and annoy the hell out of anyone except thieves. But does thief satisfy its player base? Dont think so. A class that used to be really good at assassination became a hyperactive acrobat with great dance moves.
    But it is not limited to thief sadly. Many professions lost their core archetype after HoT.

    Just received a 12k malicious backstab out of thin air..maybe you're not that good with thief as you think to be

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

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