Skyscale Teaser Speculation

[Fenom.9457]

Getting a dragon mount is one of the most exciting things that could possibly happen, and that teaser has definitely left things for us to wonder about. How will the skyscale fit into the lore? I know wyverns are all over the place, and there are other species of dragon out there we haven’t seen in GW2. It’s just a matter of where are most of the other dragon types? More specifically, where will the skyscale be found? We can see some of the new map in the trailer, and it looks elonian, yet also a bit like maguuma? I suppose the green could place it in Istan, or maybe the edge of the continent slightly to the east of kourna?

[Eekasqueak.7850]

There's always the possibility that it's another situation like Jahai bluffs with sections of Maguuma, or it's just another exalted city like the buried one in the PoF campaign. What would be an Oasis like area we haven't been to yet?

[Poormany.4507]

I really thought we were going to go to Blood Legion Homelands before these new sneak peaks, but it looks like that's not going to be the new map. I'm thinking maybe the area south of Labyrinthine Cliffs between Mount Maelstrom and directly west from Amnoon since that's the area that Maguuma and desert meet at, both of which seem to appear significantly in the teasers (and not just mist warping)? Also that area received some map updates a while back during the Labyrinthine Cliffs update. Maybe we'll finally get to go through that barricaded area in the corner of Mount Maelstrom.

[Fenom.9457]

@Poormany.4507 said:I really thought we were going to go to Blood Legion Homelands before these new sneak peaks, but it looks like that's not going to be the new map. I'm thinking maybe the area south of Labyrinthine Cliffs between Mount Maelstrom and directly west from Amnoon since that's the area that Maguuma and desert meet at, both of which seem to appear significantly in the teasers (and not just mist warping)? Also that area received some map updates a while back during the Labyrinthine Cliffs update. Maybe we'll finally get to go through that barricaded area in the corner of Mount Maelstrom.

I like your thinking, and would love to see that area!

[Bast.7253]

I was originally thinking blood legion homelands as well, but that seems to not be the case. Technically, the post mentioned that going to an open world mists map was "unlikely" not impossible, so it still could be a map in the mists, which I find a little more likely at this point, especially given that it's a finale and the context of the story right now. It makes more sense to do now than it did in previous story episodes. The only issue would be tying it into the waypoint system and the map overview I guess. But, that technical challenge being done now could make room for other plot threads in the future and encourage them even more to do it with this episode.

But anyway, other contenders that I am inclined to agree with:

1. South of Mount Maelstrom as suggested. The cliffs do kind of resemble Labyrinthine cliffs a bit, but also ties in Maguma assets that could mix well with Mount Maelstrom's jungle aesthetic. It's also close to where we just fought Kralk. The video also shows a lot of water on the ground level.
2. Barborous Shore area - potentially. We have a watery ravine, a coastline, and elonan cliff assets. A little less likely imo.
3. Scavenger's Causeway - seems a bit more likely to me right now, especially since there was some minor map changes awhile back to the coastline on the southwestern side near Orr. But it has water, elonian cliff assets and foliage potential, and possibly Maguma esque jungle assets that you would associate with something that would have been connected to Orr pre-cataclysm. It also keeps it in the same area that we've been in.
4. Alcazia Triangle - the elonian cliff assets and foliage wouldn't make a lot of sense, but the maguma assets would, the tall rocky cliffs weren't really prevalent in Guild Wars 1 in that area that I can remember, but that doesn't really mean much considering how much some of the zones have changed since then. Downsides being the elonian assets, and it being on the opposite side of the map. But, to counter it being on the other side of the map.. the latest current events show rifts spawning all over Tyria. This could be explained by Kralk's movement to the other side of the map, and his movement to that area potentially being fueled by something revolving around Caithe and the pale tree. This seems fairly unlikely, but I'm just going based on the map overview topography and what I can actually see in the teaser as it seems to be large chunks of cliff separated by water with a definite coastline to one side.
5. His purple mountain, which doesn't fit the topography on the world map with it being pretty low on water except on the coastline, but could be remedied with a map art update.
6. It's somewhere else on the map entirely. A completely unpredictable and potentially new area that hasn't ever been seen before, that we would normally have no reason to go to but are discovering it because we are tracking Blish and Kralk's movement.. who just happens to be able to enter and exit rifts from the msits and reappear anywhere he wants on Tyria. And if we're going based off the current viewable map art, we could be looking at anywhere from the top northeastern corner on a coastline deep in unfamiliar territory past the charr lands, to the southeastern corner coastline, or even an island chain on the map that isn't in the viewable overview at the moment. (I find this unlikely considering how much the map was already expanded.)

So to summarize, my guess, would be that it's Scavenger's Causeway near Orr, or in the mists. And while I'm leaning towards it being in the mists, especially given the spirit beings we see in the trailer, the potential it could have for tying in season 5 if located in Scavenger's Causeway could be quite exciting. We not only have potential to introduce these new draconic creatures that could tie in lorewise to Zhaitan, potential story with Aurene and the altar of Glaust should she be risen with Kralk's death-branded magic and us having to free her if she isn't revived this episode, or even the potential for the proximity of Kralk's potential death this episode to be a catalyst for a more aggressive deep sea dragon.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" at 0:12 seconds, on the right hand side, can you recognize the architecture of that little village in the background? I can't really tell what it is. From screenshotting it and zooming in, it looks like either ruins or debris. The bit on the left looks like it could be standard airship debris, but the part on the right looks like something else. I'm assuming it's probably just airship debris, as the pact has tents set up on the cliff in the shot before meaning there may not be a friendly base of operations or something set up elsewhere in the zone.

Also, at 0:17 seconds you can see on the right the "coastline" which just drops straight down into... deeper water? Or is there something else going on here? It just seems very mist-like to me. I think Sandswept had a similar style of water and then dropping straight down on the eastern coast near the Djinn fight. But it still seems different.

Also, sorry, at 0:22 seconds I think it was mentioned that that was Auric Basin, but it isn't. You can see in the background there is a bunch of floating volatile magic orbs. And I've played a lot of Auric Basin and it doesn't look familiar. The assets do, but the layout doesn't. Especially with the big winding path in the background to the left of the floating orbs. The ground also seems like it's covered in water and flowing left. So this is definitely a part of the new map, especially with the spirit creatures. It's definitely new. Wherever it is, they really used a lot of maguma assets to give it the feel they did. And that's part of why I wondered if this isn't Acazia Triangle or somewhere in that area, despite the geography differing a bit from the original game and it being on the other side of the map. But again, that could easily be tied in with the story when the episode is released or even the requiem story for Caithe that they're intentionally saving for last.

As a final note, since I doubt anyone will read this far anyway - is that, even though most of the shots make the zone look rather barren and it could be because they cut stuff out to prevent spoilers, that 1. we're in the mists and there just isn't much left since Kralk has been eating everything. 2. We're above where a large chunk of the action is. Perhaps despite us typically being safer underground, the only time you really see mobs in the video is on the ground. The spirit beasts showing off the dismount fire breath ability, and at one point you see a branded hydra walking in between the cliffs on the very bottom. Perhaps the pact has set up on the top outer part of the zone where we arrived from, closer to safety, and when you consider that we're just on the outer coast, the rest of the map could look entirely different and be covered up by those huge cliffsides. I guess we'll know in a week or two if they release the actual trailer.

[ThatOddOne.4387]

I’m still internally debating whether it’s Maguuma or Scavengers Causeway, the mash of Elonian and jungle assets could indicate the latter more heavily assuming the Causeway still kept its Orrian pre-Sinking flora and fauna and ArenaNet isn’t creating new assets.

Tinfoil hat time! Maybe the Gods and the Exalted squirrelled away more dragon eggs somewhere without telling anyone else (and that’s where Glints “they know things I do not” comment came from) and that’s what Taimi was trying to tell us before she just completely forgot.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:@"Konig Des Todes.2086" at 0:12 seconds, on the right hand side, can you recognize the architecture of that little village in the background? I can't really tell what it is. From screenshotting it and zooming in, it looks like either ruins or debris. The bit on the left looks like it could be standard airship debris, but the part on the right looks like something else. I'm assuming it's probably just airship debris, as the pact has tents set up on the cliff in the shot before meaning there may not be a friendly base of operations or something set up elsewhere in the zone.

Looks like airship debris to me. It's 100% metal, and uses the same grating as we see with airship debris elsewhere like VB.

Also, at 0:17 seconds you can see on the right the "coastline" which just drops straight down into... deeper water? Or is there something else going on here? It just seems very mist-like to me. I think Sandswept had a similar style of water and then dropping straight down on the eastern coast near the Djinn fight. But it still seems different.

Very foggy indeed, so it's hard to tell.

Also, sorry, at 0:22 seconds I think it was mentioned that that was Auric Basin, but it isn't. You can see in the background there is a bunch of floating volatile magic orbs. And I've played a lot of Auric Basin and it doesn't look familiar. The assets do, but the layout doesn't.

Yes, I retracted my statement upon a third viewing.

As a final note, since I doubt anyone will read this far anyway - is that, even though most of the shots make the zone look rather barren and it could be because they cut stuff out to prevent spoilers, that 1. we're in the mists and there just isn't much left since Kralk has been eating everything. 2. We're above where a large chunk of the action is.

No doubt looks barren because we're only seeing two specific locations, and at odd angles that hides most of the landscape and content. It would be like showing off Istan, by focusing around Churrhir Cliffs and Modri Caverns. It'd show cliffs, vegetation, some sand portals, and just about nothing else.

One can see airships in the distance throughout the first half. I doubt we're in the Mists, especially since lately ArenaNet has been depicting the Mists as very sandy with floating land (e.g., first half of Facing the Truth, the raptor run scene in Storm Chasing, and most recently, the Current Event riftstalker mini-map).

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

-necromancing thread because I didn't want to make a new one-

There's a brief but very interesting tidbit of lore about the Skyscale, wyverns, and dragons in general presented in today's

(begins at @22:15) To quote (note: edited out extra uhs, ums, and likes and other stammering):

We had concerns at first. We had a previous idea based on some secret plot things that involved him being more crystalline. We were worried that that approach was kind of making him look branded - which he's not - and too much like an enemy type dragon. And also steps a little on the toes of Aurene's design a little bit. We don't want him to look like he's related to her since she's kind of part of the pantheon - has that Elder Dragon ancestry due to her mom. We don't want him to look like he has the same potential to be as strong as she is or the same kind of dragon she is. He's kind of like our lesser dragons. But at the same time we want him to feel heroic and cool, don't want him to feel like he's this puny lesser version of whatever Aurene was.

-snip bit about going over the lore in detail after War Eternal launches-

So it comes to trying to strike a balance between that, making this guy still feel cool, still feel powerful, without feeling he's kind of confusing or messes up the lore about what the Elder Dragons are too much. And then also making sure he stands out from enemy dragon types we've had. A lot of our enemies are wyverns or wyverns however you prefer to fall on that controversy (pronounces them both ways). So we decided to stick to the six-legged body plan. They're all dragons, but this body plan falls in line with what we typically see from our good guy dragon.

The TL;DR of what's directly said:

• Skyscales cannot become Elder Dragons.
• Originally was to be a crystal dragon for lore reasons, but this was scrapped to avoid confusion.
• Confirms wyverns are also lesser dragons.

What this infers:

First, confirmation that there are indeed non-Elder Dragon related dragons, a longstanding "is this the case or not" ever since Glint got connected to Kralkatorrik as our other major dragons (Rotscale and Kuunavang) were previously put on par to Glint in relation to the Elder Dragons (The Movement of the World from 2007 related Glint and Kuunavang to each other and compared their differences from the Elder Dragons; an interview with Jeff Grubb in 2010 did the same with Glint and Rotscale; but then we got EoD which made Glint a champion of Kralkatorrik).

Second, confirmation that wyverns are among these "non-Elder Dragon related dragons" (this means that said lesser dragons can be corrupted by the Elder Dragons, as we've seen many wyverns corrupted). What's curious is that wyverns are stated to be cousins of drakes. This would suggest that drakes, too, are a type lesser dragons! This would be an interesting callback to two things: first, in GW1, the mechanical race type for drakes was "dragon" (shared with Saltspray Dragons, which visually are snake-like dragons); second, in GW1, there were "Rockhide Dragons" in Cantha, which were very drake-like in appearance.

Related to this, at 33:00 a Hydra ambushes the devs, and the same dev explaining the above lore design (Kate Pfeilschiefter) commented "dragon on dragon violence", indicating that hydras also count as a lesser dragon. Thus we would have four species that count as "lesser dragons": Skyscales, wyverns, drakes, and hydras. What's most notable is that they all have the same common attribute of being elementally attuned (most often fire, lightning, or ice) reptiles of four or six limbs.

Third: before this, I had noted that the tail and general shape of the Skyscale may suggest that the Skyscale comes from the same "breed" as Kralkatorrik, Glint, and Aurene - all three of whom have the same bulbous tail tip (even baby Aurene, who used a different rigging from the other four models). The "secret plot reasons" and original crystalline look intention makes me feel that this belief is even more likely. Thus, the Skyscale may be the species which Kralkatorrik hails from, but "something" happened to him that allowed him to become an Elder Dragon - something similar to what happened to Kormir with the gods' blessing, no doubt.

If these indications are true, then it creates a very, very interesting situation for us. This all would imply that the lesser dragons of Tyria, with some sort of preparation or ascension, can become candidates for Elder Dragon replacements. Without such - like our mount's situation will be - this won't be possible. Once that "some sort of preparation" is figured out, the number of candidates for replacement goes from "three that are now all dead" to thousands. We just need a proper raising from an egg scenario again, times six.

Incidentally, though I'm tired of hearing it, this also finally gives us an actual reason in the plot and lore to go to Cantha, empire of the dragon.

[Blocki.4931]

Thanks for that quick summary. I was too lazy to do it myself, but I very much shared the same sentiments. The point where she mentioned that it would be too spoilery sounded to me like Aurene was branded in the context on first hearing it lol

This definitely has me more excited than before, even though I was somewhat disappointed with the actual mount, the lore implications are through the roof and I really hope they do pay off in this way.

[Krypto.2069]

I like the lore implications too. :smile:I'm also glad to see that my Griffon WON'T be visiting the unemployment office based on what I saw in that video. :+1:

[Aerick Blackmoore.8167]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:-necromancing thread because I didn't want to make a new one-

There's a brief but very interesting tidbit of lore about the Skyscale, wyverns, and dragons in general presented in today's

(begins at @22:15) To quote (note: edited out extra uhs, ums, and likes and other stammering):

We had concerns at first. We had a previous idea based on some secret plot things that involved him being more crystalline. We were worried that that approach was kind of making him look branded - which he's not - and too much like an enemy type dragon. And also steps a little on the toes of Aurene's design a little bit. We don't want him to look like he's related to her since she's kind of part of the pantheon - has that Elder Dragon ancestry due to her mom. We don't want him to look like he has the same potential to be as strong as she is or the same kind of dragon she is. He's kind of like our lesser dragons. But at the same time we want him to feel heroic and cool, don't want him to feel like he's this puny lesser version of whatever Aurene was.

-snip bit about going over the lore in detail after War Eternal launches-

So it comes to trying to strike a balance between that, making this guy still feel cool, still feel powerful, without feeling he's kind of confusing or messes up the lore about what the Elder Dragons are too much. And then also making sure he stands out from enemy dragon types we've had. A lot of our enemies are wyverns or wyverns however you prefer to fall on that controversy (pronounces them both ways). So we decided to stick to the six-legged body plan. They're all dragons, but this body plan falls in line with what we typically see from our good guy dragon.

The TL;DR of what's directly said:

• Skyscales cannot become Elder Dragons.
• Originally was to be a crystal dragon for lore reasons, but this was scrapped to avoid confusion.
• Confirms wyverns are also lesser dragons.

What this infers:

First, confirmation that there are indeed non-Elder Dragon related dragons, a longstanding "is this the case or not" ever since Glint got connected to Kralkatorrik as our other major dragons (Rotscale and Kuunavang) were previously put on par to Glint in relation to the Elder Dragons (The Movement of the World from 2007 related Glint and Kuunavang to each other and compared their differences from the Elder Dragons; an interview with Jeff Grubb in 2010 did the same with Glint and Rotscale; but then we got EoD which made Glint a champion of Kralkatorrik).

Second, confirmation that wyverns are among these "non-Elder Dragon related dragons" (this means that said lesser dragons can be corrupted by the Elder Dragons, as we've seen many wyverns corrupted). What's curious is that wyverns are stated to be cousins of drakes. This would suggest that drakes, too, are a type lesser dragons! This would be an interesting callback to two things: first, in GW1, the mechanical race type for drakes was

"dragon"

(shared with Saltspray Dragons, which visually are snake-like dragons); second, in GW1, there were

"Rockhide Dragons"

in Cantha, which were very drake-like in appearance.

Related to this, at 33:00 a Hydra ambushes the devs, and the same dev explaining the above lore design (Kate Pfeilschiefter) commented "dragon on dragon violence", indicating that hydras

also

count as a lesser dragon. Thus we would have four species that count as "lesser dragons": Skyscales, wyverns, drakes, and hydras. What's most notable is that they all have the same common attribute of being elementally attuned (most often fire, lightning, or ice) reptiles of four or six limbs.

Third: before this, I had noted that the tail and general shape of the Skyscale may suggest that the Skyscale comes from the same "breed" as Kralkatorrik, Glint, and Aurene - all three of whom have the same bulbous tail tip (even baby Aurene, who used a different rigging from the other four models). The "secret plot reasons" and original crystalline look intention makes me feel that this belief is even more likely. Thus, the Skyscale may be the species which Kralkatorrik hails from, but "something" happened to him that allowed him to become an Elder Dragon - something similar to what happened to Kormir with the gods' blessing, no doubt.

If these indications are true, then it creates a very, very interesting situation for us. This all would imply that the lesser dragons of Tyria, with some sort of preparation or ascension, can become candidates for Elder Dragon replacements. Without such - like our mount's situation will be - this won't be possible. Once that "some sort of preparation" is figured out, the number of candidates for replacement goes from "three that are now all dead" to thousands. We just need a proper raising from an egg scenario again, times six.

Incidentally, though I'm tired of hearing it, this also finally gives us an actual reason in the plot and lore to go to Cantha, empire of the dragon.

While reading your part about Kralkatorrik's possible ascension and Hydrás likely being lesser dragons, it got me think about the Deep Sea Dragon, could this be a Hydra ascended? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:%22Tsunami%22_concept_art.jpg

And Kuunavang and the Saltspray Dragons and the Rockhide Dragons being able to ascend? Very excited to find out more in episode 6 and Season 5, and I guess we are all getting a little hyped for Cantha? Just a little...

[Randulf.7614]

@Aerick Blackmoore.8167 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:-necromancing thread because I didn't want to make a new one-

There's a brief but very interesting tidbit of lore about the Skyscale, wyverns, and dragons in general presented in today's

(begins at @22:15) To quote (note: edited out extra uhs, ums, and likes and other stammering):

We had concerns at first. We had a previous idea based on some secret plot things that involved him being more crystalline. We were worried that that approach was kind of making him look branded - which he's not - and too much like an enemy type dragon. And also steps a little on the toes of Aurene's design a little bit. We don't want him to look like he's related to her since she's kind of part of the pantheon - has that Elder Dragon ancestry due to her mom. We don't want him to look like he has the same potential to be as strong as she is or the same kind of dragon she is. He's kind of like our lesser dragons. But at the same time we want him to feel heroic and cool, don't want him to feel like he's this puny lesser version of whatever Aurene was.

-snip bit about going over the lore in detail after War Eternal launches-

So it comes to trying to strike a balance between that, making this guy still feel cool, still feel powerful, without feeling he's kind of confusing or messes up the lore about what the Elder Dragons are too much. And then also making sure he stands out from enemy dragon types we've had. A lot of our enemies are wyverns or wyverns however you prefer to fall on that controversy (pronounces them both ways). So we decided to stick to the six-legged body plan. They're all dragons, but this body plan falls in line with what we typically see from our good guy dragon.

The TL;DR of what's directly said:

• Skyscales cannot become Elder Dragons.
• Originally was to be a crystal dragon for lore reasons, but this was scrapped to avoid confusion.
• Confirms wyverns are also lesser dragons.

What this infers:

First, confirmation that there are indeed non-Elder Dragon related dragons, a longstanding "is this the case or not" ever since Glint got connected to Kralkatorrik as our other major dragons (Rotscale and Kuunavang) were previously put on par to Glint in relation to the Elder Dragons (The Movement of the World from 2007 related Glint and Kuunavang to each other and compared their differences from the Elder Dragons; an interview with Jeff Grubb in 2010 did the same with Glint and Rotscale; but then we got EoD which made Glint a champion of Kralkatorrik).

Second, confirmation that wyverns are among these "non-Elder Dragon related dragons" (this means that said lesser dragons can be corrupted by the Elder Dragons, as we've seen many wyverns corrupted). What's curious is that wyverns are stated to be cousins of drakes. This would suggest that drakes, too, are a type lesser dragons! This would be an interesting callback to two things: first, in GW1, the mechanical race type for drakes was

"dragon"

(shared with Saltspray Dragons, which visually are snake-like dragons); second, in GW1, there were

"Rockhide Dragons"

in Cantha, which were very drake-like in appearance.

Related to this, at 33:00 a Hydra ambushes the devs, and the same dev explaining the above lore design (Kate Pfeilschiefter) commented "dragon on dragon violence", indicating that hydras

also

count as a lesser dragon. Thus we would have four species that count as "lesser dragons": Skyscales, wyverns, drakes, and hydras. What's most notable is that they all have the same common attribute of being elementally attuned (most often fire, lightning, or ice) reptiles of four or six limbs.

Third: before this, I had noted that the tail and general shape of the Skyscale may suggest that the Skyscale comes from the same "breed" as Kralkatorrik, Glint, and Aurene - all three of whom have the same bulbous tail tip (even baby Aurene, who used a different rigging from the other four models). The "secret plot reasons" and original crystalline look intention makes me feel that this belief is even more likely. Thus, the Skyscale may be the species which Kralkatorrik hails from, but "something" happened to him that allowed him to become an Elder Dragon - something similar to what happened to Kormir with the gods' blessing, no doubt.

If these indications are true, then it creates a very, very interesting situation for us. This all would imply that the lesser dragons of Tyria, with some sort of preparation or ascension, can become candidates for Elder Dragon replacements. Without such - like our mount's situation will be - this won't be possible. Once that "some sort of preparation" is figured out, the number of candidates for replacement goes from "three that are now all dead" to thousands. We just need a proper raising from an egg scenario again, times six.

Incidentally, though I'm tired of hearing it, this also finally gives us an actual reason in the plot and lore to go to Cantha, empire of the dragon.

While reading your part about Kralkatorrik's possible ascension and Hydrás likely being lesser dragons, it got me think about the Deep Sea Dragon, could this be a Hydra ascended?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:%22Tsunami%22_concept_art.jpg

And Kuunavang and the Saltspray Dragons and the Rockhide Dragons being able to ascend? Very excited to find out more in episode 6 and Season 5, and I guess we are all getting a little hyped for Cantha? Just a little...

I wouldn’t read anything into that concept pic. It is so old now and never played into any context that I think it was only inserted as a cool picture to wow people and get them talking. It’s relevance to anything is likely zero.

[Aerick Blackmoore.8167]

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Aerick Blackmoore.8167 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:-necromancing thread because I didn't want to make a new one-

There's a brief but very interesting tidbit of lore about the Skyscale, wyverns, and dragons in general presented in today's

(begins at @22:15) To quote (note: edited out extra uhs, ums, and likes and other stammering):

We had concerns at first. We had a previous idea based on some secret plot things that involved him being more crystalline. We were worried that that approach was kind of making him look branded - which he's not - and too much like an enemy type dragon. And also steps a little on the toes of Aurene's design a little bit. We don't want him to look like he's related to her since she's kind of part of the pantheon - has that Elder Dragon ancestry due to her mom. We don't want him to look like he has the same potential to be as strong as she is or the same kind of dragon she is. He's kind of like our lesser dragons. But at the same time we want him to feel heroic and cool, don't want him to feel like he's this puny lesser version of whatever Aurene was.

-snip bit about going over the lore in detail after War Eternal launches-

So it comes to trying to strike a balance between that, making this guy still feel cool, still feel powerful, without feeling he's kind of confusing or messes up the lore about what the Elder Dragons are too much. And then also making sure he stands out from enemy dragon types we've had. A lot of our enemies are wyverns or wyverns however you prefer to fall on that controversy (pronounces them both ways). So we decided to stick to the six-legged body plan. They're all dragons, but this body plan falls in line with what we typically see from our good guy dragon.

The TL;DR of what's directly said:

• Skyscales cannot become Elder Dragons.
• Originally was to be a crystal dragon for lore reasons, but this was scrapped to avoid confusion.
• Confirms wyverns are also lesser dragons.

What this infers:

First, confirmation that there are indeed non-Elder Dragon related dragons, a longstanding "is this the case or not" ever since Glint got connected to Kralkatorrik as our other major dragons (Rotscale and Kuunavang) were previously put on par to Glint in relation to the Elder Dragons (The Movement of the World from 2007 related Glint and Kuunavang to each other and compared their differences from the Elder Dragons; an interview with Jeff Grubb in 2010 did the same with Glint and Rotscale; but then we got EoD which made Glint a champion of Kralkatorrik).

Second, confirmation that wyverns are among these "non-Elder Dragon related dragons" (this means that said lesser dragons can be corrupted by the Elder Dragons, as we've seen many wyverns corrupted). What's curious is that wyverns are stated to be cousins of drakes. This would suggest that drakes, too, are a type lesser dragons! This would be an interesting callback to two things: first, in GW1, the mechanical race type for drakes was

"dragon"

(shared with Saltspray Dragons, which visually are snake-like dragons); second, in GW1, there were

"Rockhide Dragons"

in Cantha, which were very drake-like in appearance.

Related to this, at 33:00 a Hydra ambushes the devs, and the same dev explaining the above lore design (Kate Pfeilschiefter) commented "dragon on dragon violence", indicating that hydras

also

count as a lesser dragon. Thus we would have four species that count as "lesser dragons": Skyscales, wyverns, drakes, and hydras. What's most notable is that they all have the same common attribute of being elementally attuned (most often fire, lightning, or ice) reptiles of four or six limbs.

Third: before this, I had noted that the tail and general shape of the Skyscale may suggest that the Skyscale comes from the same "breed" as Kralkatorrik, Glint, and Aurene - all three of whom have the same bulbous tail tip (even baby Aurene, who used a different rigging from the other four models). The "secret plot reasons" and original crystalline look intention makes me feel that this belief is even more likely. Thus, the Skyscale may be the species which Kralkatorrik hails from, but "something" happened to him that allowed him to become an Elder Dragon - something similar to what happened to Kormir with the gods' blessing, no doubt.

If these indications are true, then it creates a very, very interesting situation for us. This all would imply that the lesser dragons of Tyria, with some sort of preparation or ascension, can become candidates for Elder Dragon replacements. Without such - like our mount's situation will be - this won't be possible. Once that "some sort of preparation" is figured out, the number of candidates for replacement goes from "three that are now all dead" to thousands. We just need a proper raising from an egg scenario again, times six.

Incidentally, though I'm tired of hearing it, this also finally gives us an actual reason in the plot and lore to go to Cantha, empire of the dragon.

While reading your part about Kralkatorrik's possible ascension and Hydrás likely being lesser dragons, it got me think about the Deep Sea Dragon, could this be a Hydra ascended?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:%22Tsunami%22_concept_art.jpg

And Kuunavang and the Saltspray Dragons and the Rockhide Dragons being able to ascend? Very excited to find out more in episode 6 and Season 5, and I guess we are all getting a little hyped for Cantha? Just a little...

I wouldn’t read anything into that concept pic. It is so old now and never played into any context that I think it was only inserted as a cool picture to wow people and get them talking. It’s relevance to anything is likely zero.

Most likely you're right, however the concepts do show the DSD (if they really are concepts for the DSD) as a being with more than 1 head, like a Hydra.

[Randulf.7614]

@Aerick Blackmoore.8167 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Aerick Blackmoore.8167 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:-necromancing thread because I didn't want to make a new one-

There's a brief but very interesting tidbit of lore about the Skyscale, wyverns, and dragons in general presented in today's

(begins at @22:15) To quote (note: edited out extra uhs, ums, and likes and other stammering):

We had concerns at first. We had a previous idea based on some secret plot things that involved him being more crystalline. We were worried that that approach was kind of making him look branded - which he's not - and too much like an enemy type dragon. And also steps a little on the toes of Aurene's design a little bit. We don't want him to look like he's related to her since she's kind of part of the pantheon - has that Elder Dragon ancestry due to her mom. We don't want him to look like he has the same potential to be as strong as she is or the same kind of dragon she is. He's kind of like our lesser dragons. But at the same time we want him to feel heroic and cool, don't want him to feel like he's this puny lesser version of whatever Aurene was.

-snip bit about going over the lore in detail after War Eternal launches-

So it comes to trying to strike a balance between that, making this guy still feel cool, still feel powerful, without feeling he's kind of confusing or messes up the lore about what the Elder Dragons are too much. And then also making sure he stands out from enemy dragon types we've had. A lot of our enemies are wyverns or wyverns however you prefer to fall on that controversy (pronounces them both ways). So we decided to stick to the six-legged body plan. They're all dragons, but this body plan falls in line with what we typically see from our good guy dragon.

The TL;DR of what's directly said:

• Skyscales cannot become Elder Dragons.
• Originally was to be a crystal dragon for lore reasons, but this was scrapped to avoid confusion.
• Confirms wyverns are also lesser dragons.

What this infers:

First, confirmation that there are indeed non-Elder Dragon related dragons, a longstanding "is this the case or not" ever since Glint got connected to Kralkatorrik as our other major dragons (Rotscale and Kuunavang) were previously put on par to Glint in relation to the Elder Dragons (The Movement of the World from 2007 related Glint and Kuunavang to each other and compared their differences from the Elder Dragons; an interview with Jeff Grubb in 2010 did the same with Glint and Rotscale; but then we got EoD which made Glint a champion of Kralkatorrik).

Second, confirmation that wyverns are among these "non-Elder Dragon related dragons" (this means that said lesser dragons can be corrupted by the Elder Dragons, as we've seen many wyverns corrupted). What's curious is that wyverns are stated to be cousins of drakes. This would suggest that drakes, too, are a type lesser dragons! This would be an interesting callback to two things: first, in GW1, the mechanical race type for drakes was

"dragon"

(shared with Saltspray Dragons, which visually are snake-like dragons); second, in GW1, there were

"Rockhide Dragons"

in Cantha, which were very drake-like in appearance.

Related to this, at 33:00 a Hydra ambushes the devs, and the same dev explaining the above lore design (Kate Pfeilschiefter) commented "dragon on dragon violence", indicating that hydras

also

count as a lesser dragon. Thus we would have four species that count as "lesser dragons": Skyscales, wyverns, drakes, and hydras. What's most notable is that they all have the same common attribute of being elementally attuned (most often fire, lightning, or ice) reptiles of four or six limbs.

Third: before this, I had noted that the tail and general shape of the Skyscale may suggest that the Skyscale comes from the same "breed" as Kralkatorrik, Glint, and Aurene - all three of whom have the same bulbous tail tip (even baby Aurene, who used a different rigging from the other four models). The "secret plot reasons" and original crystalline look intention makes me feel that this belief is even more likely. Thus, the Skyscale may be the species which Kralkatorrik hails from, but "something" happened to him that allowed him to become an Elder Dragon - something similar to what happened to Kormir with the gods' blessing, no doubt.

If these indications are true, then it creates a very, very interesting situation for us. This all would imply that the lesser dragons of Tyria, with some sort of preparation or ascension, can become candidates for Elder Dragon replacements. Without such - like our mount's situation will be - this won't be possible. Once that "some sort of preparation" is figured out, the number of candidates for replacement goes from "three that are now all dead" to thousands. We just need a proper raising from an egg scenario again, times six.

Incidentally, though I'm tired of hearing it, this also finally gives us an actual reason in the plot and lore to go to Cantha, empire of the dragon.

While reading your part about Kralkatorrik's possible ascension and Hydrás likely being lesser dragons, it got me think about the Deep Sea Dragon, could this be a Hydra ascended?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:%22Tsunami%22_concept_art.jpg

And Kuunavang and the Saltspray Dragons and the Rockhide Dragons being able to ascend? Very excited to find out more in episode 6 and Season 5, and I guess we are all getting a little hyped for Cantha? Just a little...

I wouldn’t read anything into that concept pic. It is so old now and never played into any context that I think it was only inserted as a cool picture to wow people and get them talking. It’s relevance to anything is likely zero.

Most likely you're right, however the concepts do show the DSD (if they really are concepts for the DSD) as a being with more than 1 head, like a Hydra.

Very true although few Dragon concepts share much familiarity with their final model. Mordy looked very different, Primordus didn’t even look like his gw1 version and Kralkatorrik has changed even through his gw2 life, although most notably his new model in the trailer shows him with stumpy wings rather than what he was described to have (which has annoyed me a little)

There is speculation the dsd got a new concept pic - I think it is briefly shown in a pof cutscene. I’m not convinced that was the dsd but if it was, the model was single headed and classic dragon shape

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Randulf.7614 said:Very true although few Dragon concepts share much familiarity with their final model. Mordy looked very different, Primordus didn’t even look like his gw1 version and Kralkatorrik has changed even through his gw2 life, although most notably his new model in the trailer shows him with stumpy wings rather than what he was described to have (which has annoyed me a little)

There is speculation the dsd got a new concept pic - I think it is briefly shown in a pof cutscene. I’m not convinced that was the dsd but if it was, the model was single headed and classic dragon shape

The PoF dragon image really only shows a head and a claw and not much else, so even if it is the DSD there's nothing to really say about its shape.

Regarding Kralkatorrik's wings: if they're using Skyscale as the base for him, then that may have been from the earlier design of Skyscale which had smaller wings. Remember that a lot of the initial teaser seemed a lot less defined and smooth in animation, even the Skyscale's flight animation at the end seemed to be the same as the griffon like Kralkatorrik's (even compared to the Skyscale reveal trailer, things seem improved in animation and appearance). So they could have made his wings larger. Hopefully they did, since his wings are meant to span so wifely so as to block out the sun.

[Randulf.7614]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Very true although few Dragon concepts share much familiarity with their final model. Mordy looked very different, Primordus didn’t even look like his gw1 version and Kralkatorrik has changed even through his gw2 life, although most notably his new model in the trailer shows him with stumpy wings rather than what he was described to have (which has annoyed me a little)

There is speculation the dsd got a new concept pic - I think it is briefly shown in a pof cutscene. I’m not convinced that was the dsd but if it was, the model was single headed and classic dragon shape

The PoF dragon image really only shows a head and a claw and not much else, so even if it is the DSD there's nothing to really say about its shape.

Regarding Kralkatorrik's wings: if they're using Skyscale as the base for him, then that may have been from the earlier design of Skyscale which had smaller wings. Remember that a lot of the initial teaser seemed a lot less defined and smooth in animation, even the Skyscale's flight animation at the end seemed to be the same as the griffon like Kralkatorrik's (even compared to the Skyscale reveal trailer, things seem improved in animation and appearance). So they could have made his wings larger. Hopefully they did, since his wings are meant to span so wifely so as to block out the sun.

Hopefully!!