Let's talk about Time To Kill

[sephiroth.4217]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

1. In a duel, maybe 30s. 1 player facetanking the burst of another Id say 5s.
2. Maybe a minute
3. Bout 5 minutes, had some good duels like this and longer
4. Never, bunkers cant kill bunkers or shouldn't anyway.
5. -

Agree with your list.But we all know that if people facetank the burst and die, they will demand nerf to the build, not improve their gameplay.

5 minutes is madness imo, that is half (of most matches) for one duel.

Question 3 was changed while I slept.Refer to Yannirs comment for the original question.

It was badly worded but I interpreted it as bruiser (sidenoder duelist) vs bruiser. You?

Same...

[Quadox.7834]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

1. In a duel, maybe 30s. 1 player facetanking the burst of another Id say 5s.
2. Maybe a minute
3. Bout 5 minutes, had some good duels like this and longer
4. Never, bunkers cant kill bunkers or shouldn't anyway.
5. -

Agree with your list.But we all know that if people facetank the burst and die, they will demand nerf to the build, not improve their gameplay.

5 minutes is madness imo, that is half (of most matches) for one duel.

Question 3 was changed while I slept.Refer to Yannirs comment for the original question.

It was badly worded but I interpreted it as bruiser (sidenoder duelist) vs bruiser. You?

Same...

Yeah then 5 mins is way too long imo.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

1. In a duel, maybe 30s. 1 player facetanking the burst of another Id say 5s.
2. Maybe a minute
3. Bout 5 minutes, had some good duels like this and longer
4. Never, bunkers cant kill bunkers or shouldn't anyway.
5. -

Agree with your list.But we all know that if people facetank the burst and die, they will demand nerf to the build, not improve their gameplay.

5 minutes is madness imo, that is half (of most matches) for one duel.

Question 3 was changed while I slept.Refer to Yannirs comment for the original question.

It was badly worded but I interpreted it as bruiser (sidenoder duelist) vs bruiser. You?

Same...

Yeah then 5 mins is way too long imo.

I don't know... Depends what classes we are talking about here.

For example are we talking about 2 Celestial Tempests, 2 Celestial Weavers or Celestial Weaver vs Celestial Tempest? Because all of them would have very different answers.

It was more simple when it was just bruiser vs bruiser but he included a link in his edit that narrows the focus down to Celestial builds and with that I'd say about 3 mins average/tops.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Ovark.2514 said:This post would work better as a survey probably.

I'd rather have a discussion than some meaningless poll.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Even at 20k HP and decent toughtness, my elly can be killed in seconds by using the right offsive builds.

[Ovark.2514]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:This post would work better as a survey probably.

I'd rather have a discussion than some meaningless poll.

Except people will still always discuss their opinions anyway.

[otto.5684]

@TorQ.7041 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

Everything basically comes in a full circle. I ve been playing all the side noders and feel that they are pretty even. Even scrapper. Scrappers lack mobility even with the super speed on gyros and can die with cc or big bursts.

I am pretty certain that is not the case.

Nothing counters FB. You could say focus fire, but in equally competitive situations focusing FB is a very bad idea.

Mirage used to counter SB. Nothing now counters SB effectively at all. There are no condi builds in rotation except scourge anyway.

Nothing effectively counters holo either. High mobility, high damage, boat load of CC and good mobility.

Nothing effectively counters Soul beast.

If you are not playing any of the above (plus herald and thief), why are you playing sPvP?

I realized no point.

Yes nothing counters sb. That's why you see 4 each game.

Yes everything is op except class you play and it's all balanced. The only time it's balanced is if your build wins. Which judging by the hate on engi,warrior and ranger. You must be a mesmer. Since only a Sider noder cares as much about these classes.

You should uninstall the game (: let the rest of us who find it fine to play. I play 3 classes n rotate between them. If I lose I got out played. But I guess if you lose you didn't out play. It's every one else's profession being op.

I play SB and FB (among many others), and main guardian. But unlike you I am smart to enough to know they are broken. This ohh you lost cuz your not skilled enough; buddy we are not talking silver struggles here, okay.

Anet has been sucking badly on class balance as of late, and meta has diminished to a handful of builds, with an ever growing margin for non-meta builds. This is not a skill issue.

[Euthymias.7984]

The problem with the whole "Time to Kill" idea in PvP is that you can extend fights just by being good at disengaging or kiting while re-sustaining yourself. +1'ing or getting +1'd (and your ability/inability to respond to it) also drastically changes how that works out. Its kinda difficult to say a burst build should insta-kill another glass build when one may react appropriately and survive despite their build's lean towards heavy offense. Same deal with bunkers getting popped 100-0 just because they didnt react in time to a burst coming their way or start to kite harder when getting +1'd instead of trying to face-tank on a node.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"mortrialus.3062" said:

**1. How long it should take for a glass build to kill another glass build?

Full glass? (Zerker) 5 - 10 seconds if one player gets the drop. 10 - 15 seconds if both aware. Off-glass? (Mara/Demo) 10-15 seconds on the drop, 15-20 seconds both aware.

2. How long it should take for a bunker build and a glass build to come to a clear victor?

20-30 seconds.

3. How long should it take two Jack-Of-All-Stats builds to result in a clear victor?

20 -30 seconds.

4. How long should it take 2 completely defensively orientated builds to result in a clear victor?

30 - 45. Potential for infinite/stalemate here, depending on your consideration of (completely defensive)

5. Please post YouTube links of competitive games that exhibit the TTK you want to see in GW2.**

Later.

This response assumes that the players involved:

Are fighting on a pointAre equal skill levelsWill not disengage even if losing.Are not using preservation skills that passively proc and grant either explicit or effective invuln EXCEPT for flipover skills (endure pain, stealth, stone signet, traits that grant invuln are not being used, stealth for the sole purpose of proccing things like DJ or Backstab are). Skills that regen hp passively are assumed to be in use.

Are playing 1v1 and not making use of LoS.This only applies to Structured PVP. In WVW I'm

And that "Kill" means "Down".

There are many alternative factors that could alter this timeline, so if they go over their boundaries it is fine. No player should have a TTK < 5 seconds, And no player should have a TTK > 1.5 minutes or effective immortality , ideally. There is one exception made if both players completely focus on surviving at all costs. Then the match should be infinite.

No class should, on a single hit, take greater than their entire HP bar in damage, even if the classes are both glass. This goes doubly for skills with no telegraph or hideable telegraphs, and combos of skill buffs that culminate in one attack doing significant damage, or damage packets being so close together such that they cannot be evaded separately. (Zerker Arms/Strength/Zerker spin2win build, Oneshot maul, backstab with assassin signet on a glass thief, Chronobuster burst) are counted as one single attack.

No class should, in their rotation, have enough invulnerability, blocks, or damage mitigation to be able to heal to full vs glass or off glass builds without needing to disengage. Vs Jack-of-all-stats, They should have a moderate advantage but not an insurmountable one.

Edit:Updated bunker matchup results.

[TorQ.7041]

@otto.5684 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

Everything basically comes in a full circle. I ve been playing all the side noders and feel that they are pretty even. Even scrapper. Scrappers lack mobility even with the super speed on gyros and can die with cc or big bursts.

I am pretty certain that is not the case.

Nothing counters FB. You could say focus fire, but in equally competitive situations focusing FB is a very bad idea.

Mirage used to counter SB. Nothing now counters SB effectively at all. There are no condi builds in rotation except scourge anyway.

Nothing effectively counters holo either. High mobility, high damage, boat load of CC and good mobility.

Nothing effectively counters Soul beast.

If you are not playing any of the above (plus herald and thief), why are you playing sPvP?

I realized no point.

Yes nothing counters sb. That's why you see 4 each game.

Yes everything is op except class you play and it's all balanced. The only time it's balanced is if your build wins. Which judging by the hate on engi,warrior and ranger. You must be a mesmer. Since only a Sider noder cares as much about these classes.

You should uninstall the game (: let the rest of us who find it fine to play. I play 3 classes n rotate between them. If I lose I got out played. But I guess if you lose you didn't out play. It's every one else's profession being op.

I play SB and FB (among many others), and main guardian. But unlike you I am smart to enough to know they are broken. This ohh you lost cuz your not skilled enough; buddy we are not talking silver struggles here, okay.

Anet has been sucking badly on class balance as of late, and meta has diminished to a handful of builds, with an ever growing margin for non-meta builds. This is not a skill issue.

Yes you are very smart. So smart. Main guardian much wow.

I am in plat so no. Not really any silver struggles. I play warrior ranger Holo, scrapper and rev. I don't find it any different play vs sb or vs Holo. I dont die instantly and have been having pretty even fights so na. I don't buy your little rant.