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Power herald for raids?


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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:I'm reminded of a recent video by Mighty Teapot, where he lamented the state of raiding in the game. Not because raids aren't fun, but because the community ruins it. The raiders would rather flail and fail while emulating the leet strategies and builds of speedrunners instead of going with consistent, comfortable, and safe tactics. Nobody needs these high-risk, niche tactics and builds. Raiding would not only be possible with a conventional build, but easier overall. An excellent case of this is the power herald.

Though it was several balance patches ago, I did some
DPS tests to see what the resting DPS rate was while auto-attacking, or while doing simple rotations. This was done as a way to analyze how punishing a class is to play, but it also provided a glimpse at a new vector. One that, sadly, nobody bothered to consider,: ease of DPS.

When it comes to easy DPS, of the classes I looked at, Power Herald is second highest. 26.6k DPS, just by auto attacking and using IO/VH. The rotation is incredibly safe, incredibly easy, extremely flexible, and so braindead a pigeon could do it. Anybody can complete a raid on Power Herald. If somebody is organizing a raid, their first thought should be "Oh good, a power herald. I don't have to worry about this person, because they're sturdy and they'll do reliable, easy DPS." I would recommend bringing one, except most raiders default thought is "ew, not a weaver. KICK!"Have a link to this video? I'm very interested.

probably is no video as the numbers sound like complete kitten

the main benchmarked dps rotation of power herald is 27.2k https://www.snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/herald/boon/

that guy is claiming 26.6k dps just autoattacking and using vengeful hammers and impossible odds upkeepwhich is both not accurate, and not realistic

not to forget one tiny detail offcourse

the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

but the suggested 26.6k dps build doesn't even run glint, lol so what boon will you exactly share? stability? i'm sure that will not affect your dps at all /s

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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:I'm reminded of a recent video by Mighty Teapot, where he lamented the state of raiding in the game. Not because raids aren't fun, but because the community ruins it. The raiders would rather flail and fail while emulating the leet strategies and builds of speedrunners instead of going with consistent, comfortable, and safe tactics. Nobody needs these high-risk, niche tactics and builds. Raiding would not only be possible with a conventional build, but easier overall. An excellent case of this is the power herald.

Though it was several balance patches ago, I did some
DPS tests to see what the resting DPS rate was while auto-attacking, or while doing simple rotations. This was done as a way to analyze how punishing a class is to play, but it also provided a glimpse at a new vector. One that, sadly, nobody bothered to consider,: ease of DPS.

When it comes to easy DPS, of the classes I looked at, Power Herald is second highest. 26.6k DPS, just by auto attacking and using IO/VH. The rotation is incredibly safe, incredibly easy, extremely flexible, and so braindead a pigeon could do it. Anybody can complete a raid on Power Herald. If somebody is organizing a raid, their first thought should be "Oh good, a power herald. I don't have to worry about this person, because they're sturdy and they'll do reliable, easy DPS." I would recommend bringing one, except most raiders default thought is "ew, not a weaver. KICK!"Have a link to this video? I'm very interested.

It was the middle of a two-hour livestream. I think it was this one:

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@"melandru.3876" said:

probably is no video as the numbers sound like complete kitten

the main benchmarked dps rotation of power herald is 27.2k https://www.snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/herald/boon/

that guy is claiming 26.6k dps just autoattacking and using vengeful hammers and impossible odds upkeepwhich is both not accurate, and not realistic

not to forget one tiny detail offcourse

the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

but the suggested 26.6k dps build doesn't even run glint, lol so what boon will you exactly share? stability? i'm sure that will not affect your dps at all /s

Thank you for proving that you know jack squat about how power herald works. Look, you don't run Glint if all of the boons are taken care of. There's no reason to. Instead, you run shiro + jalis, precisely because maintaining IO/VH is a large DPS increase. I didn't make 20 videos of me auto attacking the golem, both because it would take an inordinate amount of time, all of the "leet" people only care about maximum benchmarks, and because literally all I did was set up the raid golem, eat food buffs, and then auto attack. That is all. You can replicate this test right now if you wanted to. It's not that hard.

Little bit of trivia: I had to do the test twice. The first time I decided I would only switch legends when I ran out of energy. But, I encountered a problem: the golem died before I got out of shiro. Knowing that this was unrealistic, I decided to forcibly swap legends every 10 seconds, regardless of energy, since in real combat that is a more likely scenario. This averaged the two numbers out, to give a better result. However, this isn't always accurate, either. There are many raid bosses where yes, you would just sit in shiro for most of the phase and auto attack. In which case, the damage would be higher than what I listed.

Also further to note is the date. This was before banners were nerfed. So, the numbers now will be slightly lower now than they were before.

@"melandru.3876" said:the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

No it isn't. There's not one mention of filling boon downtime in the OP.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

probably is no video as the numbers sound like complete kitten

the main benchmarked dps rotation of power herald is 27.2k

that guy is claiming 26.6k dps just autoattacking and using vengeful hammers and impossible odds upkeepwhich is both not accurate, and not realistic

not to forget one tiny detail offcourse

the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

but the suggested 26.6k dps build doesn't even run glint, lol so what boon will you exactly share? stability? i'm sure that will not affect your dps at all /s

Thank you for proving that you know jack squat about how power herald works. Look, you don't run Glint if all of the boons are taken care of. There's no reason to. Instead, you run shiro + jalis, precisely because maintaining IO/VH is a large DPS increase. I didn't make 20 videos of me auto attacking the golem, both because it would take an inordinate amount of time, all of the "leet" people only care about maximum benchmarks, and because literally all I did was set up the raid golem, eat food buffs, and then auto attack. That is all. You can replicate this test right now if you wanted to. It's not that hard.

Little bit of trivia: I had to do the test twice. The first time I decided I would only switch legends when I ran out of energy. But, I encountered a problem: the golem died before I got out of shiro. Knowing that this was unrealistic, I decided to forcibly swap legends every 10 seconds, regardless of energy, since in real combat that is a more likely scenario. This averaged the two numbers out, to give a better result. However, this isn't always accurate, either. There are many raid bosses where yes, you would just sit in shiro for most of the phase and auto attack. In which case, the damage would be higher than what I listed.

Also further to note is the date. This was before banners were nerfed. So, the numbers now will be slightly lower now than they were before.

@melandru.3876 said:the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

No it isn't. There's not one mention of filling boon downtime in the OP.

lol?

if you would have scrolled up for 2 seconds (which you did not)

you would have read the following: "power herald fills up boon uptime in pug groups that are lacking permanent boon upkeep"

my question: what boons? as the so-called highest autoattacking dps build you imply isn't even using dragon stance?

but since you did not scroll up, here

@Ertrak.9506 said:My point is that, in theory with good players, the supports will always permanently provide all the boons u need. This rarely happens in PuG settings. In imperfect (ie bad) groups Herald allows the gaps to be filled in without dedicating a Third full support. + Ferocity Aura in chrono-druid comps.

Edit: to clarify, it rarely happens that said supports apply said boons permanently.

@Ertrak.9506 said:

you are not there for the boonsferocity aura is (or should) be covered by a condi renegade/renegade healer/offensive renegade alacrity (quickbrand twin dueo)

a dps herald is a joke, and will be seen as a joke

Yeah about that. Not every group runs fb-ren and we're talking raids, pug raids at that, where chrono-druid is far more common and perfect boons rarely happen.

A good Power Herald will fill in the boon gaps, not be the main provider. So yes, it's useful.

But you're right, this is the forums where everybody thinks everybody plays their way and anything different is wrong. My bad, wont make that mistake again!

Ya glint/shiro is better dps, but the real better dps option is to not play Herald, so you might as well bring stuff to justify your presence... And cheesing mechanics isn't just for bad players, it's higher dps... It's why speedclear strats use stability to skip cairn spatials and have chrono's/qb's aegis gorse slams instead of everyone dodging them, etc--time spend dodging is time spent breaking your rotation.

And what I meant by the worse the group, the better the herald wasn't referring to the herald's personal dps, I meant that a bad group benefits more from having things like pulsing Fury/extra Might gen/Prot, or even RotGD--aka things good groups don't want or need, but are actually probably more useful to bad groups then copying speed clear builds and not executing them properly is.

And I dunno about the na skill ceiling being lower, probably is, but there's also a lot of really bad players on eu too... There's just less overall people on na, so sometimes you'd rather just take a whatever class than sit in LFG longer waiting for a meta pick with all his cm titles to come along. Like, nothing in this game is hard, you don't need to squeeze 100% optimized strategies out of the PUG scene to get your weekly clears and move on with your day.

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@melandru.3876 said:

probably is no video as the numbers sound like complete kitten

the main benchmarked dps rotation of power herald is 27.2k

that guy is claiming 26.6k dps just autoattacking and using vengeful hammers and impossible odds upkeepwhich is both not accurate, and not realistic

not to forget one tiny detail offcourse

the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

but the suggested 26.6k dps build doesn't even run glint, lol so what boon will you exactly share? stability? i'm sure that will not affect your dps at all /s

Thank you for proving that you know jack squat about how power herald works. Look, you don't run Glint if all of the boons are taken care of. There's no reason to. Instead, you run shiro + jalis, precisely because maintaining IO/VH is a large DPS increase. I didn't make 20 videos of me auto attacking the golem, both because it would take an inordinate amount of time, all of the "leet" people only care about maximum benchmarks, and because literally all I did was set up the raid golem, eat food buffs, and then auto attack. That is all. You can replicate this test right now if you wanted to. It's not that hard.

Little bit of trivia: I had to do the test twice. The first time I decided I would only switch legends when I ran out of energy. But, I encountered a problem: the golem died before I got out of shiro. Knowing that this was unrealistic, I decided to forcibly swap legends every 10 seconds, regardless of energy, since in real combat that is a more likely scenario. This averaged the two numbers out, to give a better result. However, this isn't always accurate, either. There are many raid bosses where yes, you would just sit in shiro for most of the phase and auto attack. In which case, the damage would be higher than what I listed.

Also further to note is the date. This was before banners were nerfed. So, the numbers now will be slightly lower now than they were before.

@melandru.3876 said:the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

No it isn't. There's not one mention of filling boon downtime in the OP.

lol?

if you would have scrolled up for 2 seconds (which you did not)

you would have read the following: "power herald fills up boon uptime in pug groups that are lacking permanent boon upkeep"

my question: what boons? as the so-called highest autoattacking dps build you imply isn't even using dragon stance?

but since you did not scroll up, here

@Ertrak.9506 said:My point is that, in theory
with good players
, the supports will always permanently provide all the boons u need. This rarely happens in PuG settings. In imperfect (ie bad) groups Herald allows the gaps to be filled in without dedicating a Third full support. + Ferocity Aura in chrono-druid comps.

Edit: to clarify, it rarely happens that said supports apply said boons permanently.

you are not there for the boonsferocity aura is (or should) be covered by a condi renegade/renegade healer/offensive renegade alacrity (quickbrand twin dueo)

a dps herald is a joke, and will be seen as a joke

Yeah about that. Not every group runs fb-ren and we're talking raids, pug raids at that, where chrono-druid is far more common and perfect boons rarely happen.

A good Power Herald will fill in the boon gaps, not be the main provider. So yes, it's useful.

But you're right, this is the forums where everybody thinks everybody plays their way and anything different is wrong. My bad, wont make that mistake again!

Ya glint/shiro is better dps, but the real better dps option is to not play Herald, so you might as well bring stuff to justify your presence... And cheesing mechanics isn't just for bad players, it's higher dps... It's why speedclear strats use stability to skip cairn spatials and have chrono's/qb's aegis gorse slams instead of everyone dodging them, etc--time spend dodging is time spent breaking your rotation.

And what I meant by the worse the group, the better the herald wasn't referring to the herald's personal dps, I meant that a bad group benefits more from having things like pulsing Fury/extra Might gen/Prot, or even RotGD--aka things good groups don't want or need, but are actually probably more useful to bad groups then copying speed clear builds and not executing them properly is.

And I dunno about the na skill ceiling being lower, probably is, but there's also a lot of really bad players on eu too... There's just less overall people on na, so sometimes you'd rather just take a whatever class than sit in LFG longer waiting for a meta pick with all his cm titles to come along. Like, nothing in this game is hard, you don't need to squeeze 100% optimized strategies out of the PUG scene to get your weekly clears and move on with your day.

The world doesn't start and stop with you. I'm responding to the OP. You don't get to just hijack the thread with whatever nonsense you bring up.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

probably is no video as the numbers sound like complete kitten

the main benchmarked dps rotation of power herald is 27.2k

that guy is claiming 26.6k dps just autoattacking and using vengeful hammers and impossible odds upkeepwhich is both not accurate, and not realistic

not to forget one tiny detail offcourse

the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

but the suggested 26.6k dps build doesn't even run glint, lol so what boon will you exactly share? stability? i'm sure that will not affect your dps at all /s

Thank you for proving that you know jack squat about how power herald works. Look, you don't run Glint if all of the boons are taken care of. There's no reason to. Instead, you run shiro + jalis, precisely because maintaining IO/VH is a large DPS increase. I didn't make 20 videos of me auto attacking the golem, both because it would take an inordinate amount of time, all of the "leet" people only care about maximum benchmarks, and because literally all I did was set up the raid golem, eat food buffs, and then auto attack. That is all. You can replicate this test right now if you wanted to. It's not that hard.

Little bit of trivia: I had to do the test twice. The first time I decided I would only switch legends when I ran out of energy. But, I encountered a problem: the golem died before I got out of shiro. Knowing that this was unrealistic, I decided to forcibly swap legends every 10 seconds, regardless of energy, since in real combat that is a more likely scenario. This averaged the two numbers out, to give a better result. However, this isn't always accurate, either. There are many raid bosses where yes, you would just sit in shiro for most of the phase and auto attack. In which case, the damage would be higher than what I listed.

Also further to note is the date. This was before banners were nerfed. So, the numbers now will be slightly lower now than they were before.

@melandru.3876 said:the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

No it isn't. There's not one mention of filling boon downtime in the OP.

lol?

if you would have scrolled up for 2 seconds (which you did not)

you would have read the following: "power herald fills up boon uptime in pug groups that are lacking permanent boon upkeep"

my question: what boons? as the so-called highest autoattacking dps build you imply isn't even using dragon stance?

but since you did not scroll up, here

@Ertrak.9506 said:My point is that, in theory
with good players
, the supports will always permanently provide all the boons u need. This rarely happens in PuG settings. In imperfect (ie bad) groups Herald allows the gaps to be filled in without dedicating a Third full support. + Ferocity Aura in chrono-druid comps.

Edit: to clarify, it rarely happens that said supports apply said boons permanently.

you are not there for the boonsferocity aura is (or should) be covered by a condi renegade/renegade healer/offensive renegade alacrity (quickbrand twin dueo)

a dps herald is a joke, and will be seen as a joke

Yeah about that. Not every group runs fb-ren and we're talking raids, pug raids at that, where chrono-druid is far more common and perfect boons rarely happen.

A good Power Herald will fill in the boon gaps, not be the main provider. So yes, it's useful.

But you're right, this is the forums where everybody thinks everybody plays their way and anything different is wrong. My bad, wont make that mistake again!

Ya glint/shiro is better dps, but the real better dps option is to not play Herald, so you might as well bring stuff to justify your presence... And cheesing mechanics isn't just for bad players, it's higher dps... It's why speedclear strats use stability to skip cairn spatials and have chrono's/qb's aegis gorse slams instead of everyone dodging them, etc--time spend dodging is time spent breaking your rotation.

And what I meant by the worse the group, the better the herald wasn't referring to the herald's personal dps, I meant that a bad group benefits more from having things like pulsing Fury/extra Might gen/Prot, or even RotGD--aka things good groups don't want or need, but are actually probably more useful to bad groups then copying speed clear builds and not executing them properly is.

And I dunno about the na skill ceiling being lower, probably is, but there's also a lot of really bad players on eu too... There's just less overall people on na, so sometimes you'd rather just take a whatever class than sit in LFG longer waiting for a meta pick with all his cm titles to come along. Like, nothing in this game is hard, you don't need to squeeze 100% optimized strategies out of the PUG scene to get your weekly clears and move on with your day.

The world doesn't start and stop with you. I'm responding to the OP. You don't get to just hijack the thread with whatever nonsense you bring up.

ironically you now go my opinion > yours

what exactly did you say again with the world and starting/stopping?

and benchmarks are nonsense?feel free to post yours

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"melandru.3876" said:

ironically you now go my opinion > yours

what exactly did you say again with the world and starting/stopping?

and benchmarks are nonsense?feel free to post yours

This doesn't make sense. Why are you even here? Serious question.

The major complaint in every thread is "i get kicked due to low dps"

the result is pve folks not knowing any better then pressing 11111111 because that's all that's needed in open worldnow here you are, telling those very same pve folks to only press 1111111 (hence your auto attack rotation)

geee, i wonder what the outcome will be kick

if you fail to see they are directly connected with each other, then may i suggest taking your biased pink goggles off, and see the wider-picture?ironically you call us (the meta folks) close minded but here you are only accepting your own vision..

well done /gg

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

ironically you now go my opinion > yours

what exactly did you say again with the world and starting/stopping?

and benchmarks are nonsense?feel free to post yours

This doesn't make sense. Why are you even here? Serious question.

The major complaint in every thread is "i get kicked due to low dps"

the result is pve folks not knowing any better then pressing 11111111 because that's all that's needed in open worldnow here you are, telling those very same pve folks to only press 1111111 (hence your auto attack rotation)

geee, i wonder what the outcome will be
kick

if you fail to see they are directly connected with each other, then may i suggest taking your biased pink goggles off, and see the wider-picture?ironically you call us (the meta folks) close minded but here you are only accepting your own vision..

well done /gg

Yeah I thought so. You're just here to be annoying. You don't care about the actual discussion.. Do us all a favor and leave the ethics and balance discussion to those of us who have ethics.

keep your insults to yourself

the ideal situation would be to make sure everyone improves.i'm not a squad leader in inn (raid training guild) to teach people how to be mediocrei am there to teach them how mechanics work, and what "standards" are.

standards folks like you (how does it feel to be put in a category?) spit on meta, and find yourself superior and everyone else should be like-minded like you else they get labeled "annoying"

newsflash for you, pretty boy a power dps is there for burst. in any short dps phase, the power herald will be at the very bottom and will find itself struggling to be higher then even an alacnade/quickbrandthat is a guaranteed kick, then here on the forums "boohoo i got kick insert reason

all i want is the raid community to be wider, and more skilled. i contribute to that..you do the exact oppsoite by dumbing it even more down

but time to less this thread die out, enough time wasted here with people that then call the meta" narrow minded" but here they happily swear with offmeta, and fall of the boat for obvious reasons

world boss week, plenty of time for you to press 111111 now

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@melandru.3876 said:

ironically you now go my opinion > yours

what exactly did you say again with the world and starting/stopping?

and benchmarks are nonsense?feel free to post yours

This doesn't make sense. Why are you even here? Serious question.

The major complaint in every thread is "i get kicked due to low dps"

the result is pve folks not knowing any better then pressing 11111111 because that's all that's needed in open worldnow here you are, telling those very same pve folks to only press 1111111 (hence your auto attack rotation)

geee, i wonder what the outcome will be
kick

if you fail to see they are directly connected with each other, then may i suggest taking your biased pink goggles off, and see the wider-picture?ironically you call us (the meta folks) close minded but here you are only accepting your own vision..

well done /gg

Yeah I thought so. You're just here to be annoying. You don't care about the actual discussion.. Do us all a favor and leave the ethics and balance discussion to those of us who have ethics.

keep your insults to yourself

the ideal situation would be to make sure everyone improves.i'm not a squad leader in inn (raid training guild) to teach people how to be mediocrei am there to teach them how mechanics work, and what "standards" are.

standards folks like you (how does it feel to be put in a category?) spit on meta, and find yourself superior and everyone else should be like-minded like you else they get labeled "annoying"

newsflash for you, pretty boy a power dps is there for burst. in any short dps phase, the power herald will be at the very bottom and will find itself struggling to be higher then even an alacnade/quickbrandthat is a guaranteed kick, then here on the forums "boohoo i got kick
insert reason

all i want is the raid community to be wider, and more skilled. i contribute to that..you do the exact oppsoite by dumbing it even more down

but time to less this thread die out, enough time wasted here with people that then call the meta" narrow minded" but here they happily swear with offmeta, and fall of the boat for obvious reasons

world boss week, plenty of time for you to press 111111 now

You won't get both wider and more skilled population, there's no working around this. It's either like the rest of the game or it's niche content, after all people play the rest of the game for a reason and raiders burn through the rest of the content (at best) and go back to raiding only for a reason as well. Personally I'm ok with it being niche, anyways.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:Thank you for proving that you know jack squat about how power herald works. Look, you don't run Glint if all of the boons are taken care of. There's no reason to. Instead, you run shiro + jalis, precisely because maintaining IO/VH is a large DPS increase.

This thread has sort of devolved big time, and this is neither here nor there, but I wanna throw out that Glint/Shiro is higher dps than Jalis/Shiro in a number of actual fights. Jalis/Shiro will be higher sustained dps, but in any fight where the burst phase is less than 20 seconds or so, Glint will pull ahead since you have the additional modifier of Burst of Strength to add into your rotation (BoS+Swap+Sword 4 (activate IO during cast)+ps off cd and aa until phase.) But if the burn phase goes beyond the ~15secs you spend in Shiro before running out of energy, Jalis pulls ahead again.

Obviously Herald is not a class with much burst potential, so it seems silly to even talk about it... But I guess for the <1% of people out there who are adamant about playing only dps Herald, they might as well be min/maxing it as much as they can in their own little way, or whatever.

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