Power herald for raids? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Fractals/Dungeons/Strike Missions/Raids

Power herald for raids?

I have full heavy ascended berserker's with scholar runes and of the three heavy professions revenant is the one I enjoy the most (I hate guardian, warrior is okay). Should I be able to find a spot in raids fairly reliably running power herald? I don't really care if I'm the most desirable profession, just as long as I'm 'good enough'. I would run condi renegade as I do have ascended vipers armor with nightmare runes but I don't have trinkets for it and I don't want to farm LW again for ascended trinkets, I hated doing that.

Depression and anxiety are the worst...

Comments

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 22, 2019

    You're not gonna find urself as top Dps in any encounter but

    if u can consistently pull 20-25k dps in any actual raid encounter, pugs wont bat an eye tbh.

    That said, as a power Herald u may face some issues with groups assuming bad DPS before giving u a shot. like I said, It's not exactly the best DPS build out there even though it brings some nice stuff to supplement the group (boons, and ferocity aura).

    Just make sure ur rotation is as perfect as possible and you should be ok for most groups (provided youre not one of those people does stupid stuff like join as a dps in a group looking for a healer).

    Best of luck to you!

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    You're not gonna find urself as top Dps in any encounter but

    if u can consistently pull 20-25k dps in any actual raid encounter, pugs wont bat an eye tbh.

    That said, as a power Herald u may face some issues with groups assuming bad DPS before giving u a shot. like I said, It's not exactly the best DPS build out there even though it brings some nice stuff to supplement the group (boons, and ferocity aura).

    Just make sure ur rotation is as perfect as possible and you should be ok for most groups (provided youre not one of those people does stupid stuff like join as a dps in a group looking for a healer).

    Best of luck to you!

    you are not there for the boons
    ferocity aura is (or should) be covered by a condi renegade/renegade healer/offensive renegade alacrity (quickbrand twin dueo)

    a dps herald is a joke, and will be seen as a joke

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maxwelgm.4315 said:
    Herald is absolute slam the keyboard easy to play and it's impossible to die because you'll be autoing so much that you can always pay attention to mechanics (and you also have infuse light). With this said, people like the poster above are completely oblivious to the fact that easy classes make for easy pugs, and will kick you to defend the notion that their optimization is actually worth something.

    I recommend just trying to get into pugs and, if they kick you, it wouldn't have been a very fun round anyways. However, I also recommend that you eventually do get the trinkets for a Condi Renegade, not because it's optimal but because it's a blast, a very challenging rotation with lots of utility and a satisfying payoff. It's definitely not a beginner's class too, so if you're starting like it appears, do start on Herald anyways. You can also look for groups in the RiT discord (https://discordapp.com/invite/RQEGHm8), and I assure they'll be much friendlier and willing to let you play as a Herald than most LFG posts (some might still want to persuade you into new classes and, that might not be so bad if they succeed, as it's also fun to play with other styles).

    I totally was planning to play condi renegade but if I spend one more minute mindlessly farming LW for trinkets I'll uninstall. I guess I could just run some suboptimal trinkets/backpiece and just try to get vipers from raiding.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Power herald is the lowest DPS spec in the game.

  • vyncius.6105vyncius.6105 Member ✭✭✭

    i am 1 trick rev, so it means i play raids as condi and power dps. Dps is not the best, but herald has nice things, like alot of cc with staff 5 and herald ultimate. On some encounters like w6b1 i find myself in top 3 dps of my squad, others like kc at the bottom of dps. I do tryhard af while playing raids.

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭

    PvPers will now laugh at this incredulously, but all rev power builds totally lack burst. They reach consistent 30k dps, but without burst. In raids and fractals thats pretty bad since most encounters have short phases in which burst dps absolutely shines.

    Also, power rev isnt as easy as everyone makes it out to be. You have to watch your energy, stand correctly to land sword5 properly and always - ALWAYS - watch your autoattacks. One interrupted autoattack chain will set you back by quite a lot since all the dmg is backloaded into last autoattack hit. Everyone saying "rotation is just smashing keys" will barely make it past bannerwarrior and chronos on bosses like MO.

    That being said, the raid community is quite relaxed nowadays about dps builds - except on mondays - so as long as you perform okay, you wont get kicked. You might get asked to bring boons though ;) like fury. Put your foot down and say but only for your own group, taking the 10man herald or renegade traits is quite a big dps loss.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    I have full heavy ascended berserker's with scholar runes and of the three heavy professions revenant is the one I enjoy the most (I hate guardian, warrior is okay). Should I be able to find a spot in raids fairly reliably running power herald? I don't really care if I'm the most desirable profession, just as long as I'm 'good enough'. I would run condi renegade as I do have ascended vipers armor with nightmare runes but I don't have trinkets for it and I don't want to farm LW again for ascended trinkets, I hated doing that.

    If you are new/newish to raids, you guild has raids for new ppl almost daily, leaded by exp raider ofc. If that is something that might intrest you, pm me :)
    EU

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Power herald is a perfectly fine build as long as you’re doing good. Biggest downsides to it are that it has lower dps than most other builds and basically no burst damage, but it has very consistent sustained damage and a super easy rotation. If you feel comfortable playing it and can pull decent numbers you should be fine

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2019

    @melandru.3876 said:

    you are not there for the boons
    ferocity aura is (or should) be covered by a condi renegade/renegade healer/offensive renegade alacrity (quickbrand twin dueo)

    a dps herald is a joke, and will be seen as a joke

    Yeah about that. Not every group runs fb-ren and we're talking raids, pug raids at that, where chrono-druid is far more common and perfect boons rarely happen.

    A good Power Herald will fill in the boon gaps, not be the main provider. So yes, it's useful.

    But you're right, this is the forums where everybody thinks everybody plays their way and anything different is wrong. My bad, wont make that mistake again!

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    you are not there for the boons
    ferocity aura is (or should) be covered by a condi renegade/renegade healer/offensive renegade alacrity (quickbrand twin dueo)

    a dps herald is a joke, and will be seen as a joke

    Yeah about that. Not every group runs fb-ren and we're talking raids, pug raids at that, where chrono-druid is far more common and perfect boons rarely happen.

    A good Power Herald will fill in the boon gaps, not be the main provider. So yes, it's useful.

    But you're right, this is the forums where everybody thinks everybody plays their way and anything different is wrong. My bad, wont make that mistake again!

    lol, did i offend you or just an off-day?

    tell me, which boon not provided by other specs, does the herald provide?

    might?

    • druid healer
    • bs warrior that can perfecly run phalanx strenght?
    • renegade healer with lasting legacy
    • firebrand healer/quickbrand
    • tempest/weaver (but not 25 stacks, can be in tempest uses heat sync in it's rotation)

    fury?

    • weaver
    • druid healer
    • firebrand healer/quickbrand

    swiftness?

    • druid healer
    • firebrand healer

    protection?

    • firebrand healer
    • druid healer

    that are just those that can keep it perma up, we both know that there are alot more sources

    so besides a kitten dps (barely above banner support warrior) what does herald bring?
    not much from the looks

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2019

    Im just gonna quote myself and end it there.

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    you are not there for the boons
    ferocity aura is (or should) be covered by a condi renegade/renegade healer/offensive renegade alacrity (quickbrand twin dueo)

    a dps herald is a joke, and will be seen as a joke

    Yeah about that. Not every group runs fb-ren and we're talking raids, pug raids at that, where chrono-druid is far more common and perfect boons rarely happen.

    A good Power Herald will fill in the boon gaps, not be the main provider. So yes, it's useful.

    But you're right, this is the forums where everybody thinks everybody plays their way and anything different is wrong. My bad, wont make that mistake again!

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    Im just gonna quote myself and end it there.

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    you are not there for the boons
    ferocity aura is (or should) be covered by a condi renegade/renegade healer/offensive renegade alacrity (quickbrand twin dueo)

    a dps herald is a joke, and will be seen as a joke

    Yeah about that. Not every group runs fb-ren and we're talking raids, pug raids at that, where chrono-druid is far more common and perfect boons rarely happen.

    A good Power Herald will fill in the boon gaps, not be the main provider. So yes, it's useful.

    But you're right, this is the forums where everybody thinks everybody plays their way and anything different is wrong. My bad, wont make that mistake again!

    and? chonro+druid is fractal meta and still provides all the boons, not?

    i fail to see your point despite you trying so hard
    but,glad you are ending early

    if your "pug raid" has no druid, no chrono, no renegade and no firebrand, then what odd pug raids do you even join lol
    scourge healer? ah yes...

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2019

    My point is that, in theory with good players, the supports will always permanently provide all the boons u need. This rarely happens in PuG settings. In imperfect (ie bad) groups Herald allows the gaps to be filled in without dedicating a Third full support. + Ferocity Aura in chrono-druid comps.

    Edit: to clarify, it rarely happens that said supports apply said boons permanently.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    My point is that, in theory with good players, the supports will always permanently provide all the boons u need. This rarely happens in PuG settings. In imperfect (ie bad) groups Herald allows the gaps to be filled in without dedicating a Third full support. + Ferocity Aura in chrono-druid comps.

    Edit: to clarify, it rarely happens that said supports apply said boons permanently.

    I can understand this, and I barely graduated from high school.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:
    tell me, which boon not provided by other specs, does the herald provide?

    Stability...!

    In an average pug group, I'd honestly be okay with someone playing pHerald dps as long as he dropped a stability road to cheese all the mechanics for the rest of the puggrinos, since your average pug chrono will probably not be successfully/consistently aegising slams and the like... Also, your average pug group will almost never be using a QB comp. At least not on NA.

    The problem tho, is that when you see someone playing Herald, it's a pretty safe bet that they're going to be quite inexp, as--FOR THE MOST PART--exp raiders (esp dps mains) will have many classes geared and will be playing the optimal choice for the fight. :bleep_bloop:

    Herald's like one of those classes where the worse a group is, the better it is, cuz it does brain-dead mediocre dps that's impossible to mess up, and can provide boons to fill holes that shady support is failing on.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2019

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    tell me, which boon not provided by other specs, does the herald provide?

    Stability...!

    In an average pug group, I'd honestly be okay with someone playing pHerald dps as long as he dropped a stability road to cheese all the mechanics for the rest of the puggrinos, since your average pug chrono will probably not be successfully/consistently aegising slams and the like... Also, your average pug group will almost never be using a QB comp. At least not on NA.

    The problem tho, is that when you see someone playing Herald, it's a pretty safe bet that they're going to be quite inexp, as--FOR THE MOST PART--exp raiders (esp dps mains) will have many classes geared and will be playing the optimal choice for the fight. :bleep_bloop:

    Herald's like one of those classes where the worse a group is, the better it is, cuz it does brain-dead mediocre dps that's impossible to mess up, and can provide boons to fill holes that shady support is failing on.

    stability road?

    pretty sure the "power dps herald" uses glint + shiro

    so with dwarf the dps will be even lower then the 27k bench dragon+assassin gave , and that all for stability?
    probably better off taking a dragonhunter then, no?

    sounds to me just that the na pug skill-ceiling is even lower then eu
    and,
    instead of improving the pugs..trying to keep them uninformed and cheese mechanics>

    and also wrong on the last part, the worse the group, the worse the herald. your dps comes from autoattacking mostly, that will be amusing once you have no quickness since we are now assuming that any form of support in na pugs, is trash

    you are probably confusing it with reaper ;) where the worse the group, the better the reaper since it provides offen sive boons itself

    not the way to go

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    tell me, which boon not provided by other specs, does the herald provide?

    Stability...!

    In an average pug group, I'd honestly be okay with someone playing pHerald dps as long as he dropped a stability road to cheese all the mechanics for the rest of the puggrinos, since your average pug chrono will probably not be successfully/consistently aegising slams and the like... Also, your average pug group will almost never be using a QB comp. At least not on NA.

    The problem tho, is that when you see someone playing Herald, it's a pretty safe bet that they're going to be quite inexp, as--FOR THE MOST PART--exp raiders (esp dps mains) will have many classes geared and will be playing the optimal choice for the fight. :bleep_bloop:

    Herald's like one of those classes where the worse a group is, the better it is, cuz it does brain-dead mediocre dps that's impossible to mess up, and can provide boons to fill holes that shady support is failing on.

    stability road?

    pretty sure the "power dps herald" uses glint + shiro

    so with dwarf the dps will be even lower then the 27k bench dragon+assassin gave , and that all for stability?
    probably better off taking a dragonhunter then, no?

    sounds to me just that the na pug skill-ceiling is even lower then eu
    and,
    instead of improving the pugs..trying to keep them uninformed and cheese mechanics>

    and also wrong on the last part, the worse the group, the worse the herald. your dps comes from autoattacking mostly, that will be amusing once you have no quickness since we are now assuming that any form of support in na pugs, is trash

    you are probably confusing it with reaper ;) where the worse the group, the better the reaper since it provides offen sive boons itself

    not the way to go

    Ya glint/shiro is better dps, but the real better dps option is to not play Herald, so you might as well bring stuff to justify your presence... And cheesing mechanics isn't just for bad players, it's higher dps... It's why speedclear strats use stability to skip cairn spatials and have chrono's/qb's aegis gorse slams instead of everyone dodging them, etc--time spend dodging is time spent breaking your rotation.

    And what I meant by the worse the group, the better the herald wasn't referring to the herald's personal dps, I meant that a bad group benefits more from having things like pulsing Fury/extra Might gen/Prot, or even RotGD--aka things good groups don't want or need, but are actually probably more useful to bad groups then copying speed clear builds and not executing them properly is.

    And I dunno about the na skill ceiling being lower, probably is, but there's also a lot of really bad players on eu too... There's just less overall people on na, so sometimes you'd rather just take a whatever class than sit in LFG longer waiting for a meta pick with all his cm titles to come along. Like, nothing in this game is hard, you don't need to squeeze 100% optimized strategies out of the PUG scene to get your weekly clears and move on with your day.

  • I'm reminded of a recent video by Mighty Teapot, where he lamented the state of raiding in the game. Not because raids aren't fun, but because the community ruins it. The raiders would rather flail and fail while emulating the leet strategies and builds of speedrunners instead of going with consistent, comfortable, and safe tactics. Nobody needs these high-risk, niche tactics and builds. Raiding would not only be possible with a conventional build, but easier overall. An excellent case of this is the power herald.

    Though it was several balance patches ago, I did some baseline DPS tests to see what the resting DPS rate was while auto-attacking, or while doing simple rotations. This was done as a way to analyze how punishing a class is to play, but it also provided a glimpse at a new vector. One that, sadly, nobody bothered to consider,: ease of DPS.

    When it comes to easy DPS, of the classes I looked at, Power Herald is second highest. 26.6k DPS, just by auto attacking and using IO/VH. The rotation is incredibly safe, incredibly easy, extremely flexible, and so braindead a pigeon could do it. Anybody can complete a raid on Power Herald. If somebody is organizing a raid, their first thought should be "Oh good, a power herald. I don't have to worry about this person, because they're sturdy and they'll do reliable, easy DPS." I would recommend bringing one, except most raiders default thought is "ew, not a weaver. KICK!"

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I'm reminded of a recent video by Mighty Teapot, where he lamented the state of raiding in the game. Not because raids aren't fun, but because the community ruins it. The raiders would rather flail and fail while emulating the leet strategies and builds of speedrunners instead of going with consistent, comfortable, and safe tactics. Nobody needs these high-risk, niche tactics and builds. Raiding would not only be possible with a conventional build, but easier overall. An excellent case of this is the power herald.

    Though it was several balance patches ago, I did some baseline DPS tests to see what the resting DPS rate was while auto-attacking, or while doing simple rotations. This was done as a way to analyze how punishing a class is to play, but it also provided a glimpse at a new vector. One that, sadly, nobody bothered to consider,: ease of DPS.

    When it comes to easy DPS, of the classes I looked at, Power Herald is second highest. 26.6k DPS, just by auto attacking and using IO/VH. The rotation is incredibly safe, incredibly easy, extremely flexible, and so braindead a pigeon could do it. Anybody can complete a raid on Power Herald. If somebody is organizing a raid, their first thought should be "Oh good, a power herald. I don't have to worry about this person, because they're sturdy and they'll do reliable, easy DPS." I would recommend bringing one, except most raiders default thought is "ew, not a weaver. KICK!"

    Sadly people are still as adamant as ever about this topic in spite of the never ending powercreep. People insist that "anyone can press a few buttons in order" but don't realize that the focus (as stressed over and over by SC themselves, yet people don't listen) is on the raid mechanics. If your rotation is so complex that it requires a player constantly giving you aegis just so won't drop off the 35k mark, great for you two for having synergy, but this is NOT the reality of a pug or even of the average organized group. I'd love if there was a separate "pug meta" composed of taking one finger pony DH and Herald builds with overly excessive Minstrel Chronos and full healing druids for sustain and boons (perhaps even throw some healing Scourge in there).

    SC even has all kinds of non optimal builds up there on their site now, updated with clear language to say that they can be used to achieve proper results and even give neat utilities sometimes, but people won't listen. Easy to play builds allow the supposedly bad group to learn the mechanics whereas the newbie trying to play Condi renegade and Weaver has a large, double gap to cross, namely performing their rotation while mechanics are going on (and no, the Chronos won't be there to give aegis on a group who accepted a newbie), with their baseline keyboard spam damage being so low that it might disappoint them from doing raids altogether.

    The community at times can be so full of themselves that they even believe everyone has the same intentions and objectives as they do when wanting to raid. Your personal feelings of how you wanted to learn the best rotations and make your runs safer by playing the top benchmarks is not even remotely the only possible way of going about things. Some people might actually (gasp) want to just get on some easier build and see themselves through content, get some skins, and overall play around the mechanics, not on their piano keyboard. Quite ironic how GW2 has some of the most accessible raiding encounters out there but at the same time one of the most stubborn communities who purposely go out of their way to optimize themselves into what I can only perceive as bureaucracy through DPS rotation before they are able to kill a simple boss who would die to 8 Heralds and 2 Minstrel Chronos Auto Attacking it.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maxwelgm.4315 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I'm reminded of a recent video by Mighty Teapot, where he lamented the state of raiding in the game. Not because raids aren't fun, but because the community ruins it. The raiders would rather flail and fail while emulating the leet strategies and builds of speedrunners instead of going with consistent, comfortable, and safe tactics. Nobody needs these high-risk, niche tactics and builds. Raiding would not only be possible with a conventional build, but easier overall. An excellent case of this is the power herald.

    Though it was several balance patches ago, I did some baseline DPS tests to see what the resting DPS rate was while auto-attacking, or while doing simple rotations. This was done as a way to analyze how punishing a class is to play, but it also provided a glimpse at a new vector. One that, sadly, nobody bothered to consider,: ease of DPS.

    When it comes to easy DPS, of the classes I looked at, Power Herald is second highest. 26.6k DPS, just by auto attacking and using IO/VH. The rotation is incredibly safe, incredibly easy, extremely flexible, and so braindead a pigeon could do it. Anybody can complete a raid on Power Herald. If somebody is organizing a raid, their first thought should be "Oh good, a power herald. I don't have to worry about this person, because they're sturdy and they'll do reliable, easy DPS." I would recommend bringing one, except most raiders default thought is "ew, not a weaver. KICK!"

    Sadly people are still as adamant as ever about this topic in spite of the never ending powercreep. People insist that "anyone can press a few buttons in order" but don't realize that the focus (as stressed over and over by SC themselves, yet people don't listen) is on the raid mechanics. If your rotation is so complex that it requires a player constantly giving you aegis just so won't drop off the 35k mark, great for you two for having synergy, but this is NOT the reality of a pug or even of the average organized group. I'd love if there was a separate "pug meta" composed of taking one finger pony DH and Herald builds with overly excessive Minstrel Chronos and full healing druids for sustain and boons (perhaps even throw some healing Scourge in there).

    SC even has all kinds of non optimal builds up there on their site now, updated with clear language to say that they can be used to achieve proper results and even give neat utilities sometimes, but people won't listen. Easy to play builds allow the supposedly bad group to learn the mechanics whereas the newbie trying to play Condi renegade and Weaver has a large, double gap to cross, namely performing their rotation while mechanics are going on (and no, the Chronos won't be there to give aegis on a group who accepted a newbie), with their baseline keyboard spam damage being so low that it might disappoint them from doing raids altogether.

    The community at times can be so full of themselves that they even believe everyone has the same intentions and objectives as they do when wanting to raid. Your personal feelings of how you wanted to learn the best rotations and make your runs safer by playing the top benchmarks is not even remotely the only possible way of going about things. Some people might actually (gasp) want to just get on some easier build and see themselves through content, get some skins, and overall play around the mechanics, not on their piano keyboard. Quite ironic how GW2 has some of the most accessible raiding encounters out there but at the same time one of the most stubborn communities who purposely go out of their way to optimize themselves into what I can only perceive as bureaucracy through DPS rotation before they are able to kill a simple boss who would die to 8 Heralds and 2 Minstrel Chronos Auto Attacking it.

    Nothing is stoping people from starting their own squads and ask for what ever they like.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @maxwelgm.4315 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I'm reminded of a recent video by Mighty Teapot, where he lamented the state of raiding in the game. Not because raids aren't fun, but because the community ruins it. The raiders would rather flail and fail while emulating the leet strategies and builds of speedrunners instead of going with consistent, comfortable, and safe tactics. Nobody needs these high-risk, niche tactics and builds. Raiding would not only be possible with a conventional build, but easier overall. An excellent case of this is the power herald.

    Though it was several balance patches ago, I did some baseline DPS tests to see what the resting DPS rate was while auto-attacking, or while doing simple rotations. This was done as a way to analyze how punishing a class is to play, but it also provided a glimpse at a new vector. One that, sadly, nobody bothered to consider,: ease of DPS.

    When it comes to easy DPS, of the classes I looked at, Power Herald is second highest. 26.6k DPS, just by auto attacking and using IO/VH. The rotation is incredibly safe, incredibly easy, extremely flexible, and so braindead a pigeon could do it. Anybody can complete a raid on Power Herald. If somebody is organizing a raid, their first thought should be "Oh good, a power herald. I don't have to worry about this person, because they're sturdy and they'll do reliable, easy DPS." I would recommend bringing one, except most raiders default thought is "ew, not a weaver. KICK!"

    Sadly people are still as adamant as ever about this topic in spite of the never ending powercreep. People insist that "anyone can press a few buttons in order" but don't realize that the focus (as stressed over and over by SC themselves, yet people don't listen) is on the raid mechanics. If your rotation is so complex that it requires a player constantly giving you aegis just so won't drop off the 35k mark, great for you two for having synergy, but this is NOT the reality of a pug or even of the average organized group. I'd love if there was a separate "pug meta" composed of taking one finger pony DH and Herald builds with overly excessive Minstrel Chronos and full healing druids for sustain and boons (perhaps even throw some healing Scourge in there).

    SC even has all kinds of non optimal builds up there on their site now, updated with clear language to say that they can be used to achieve proper results and even give neat utilities sometimes, but people won't listen. Easy to play builds allow the supposedly bad group to learn the mechanics whereas the newbie trying to play Condi renegade and Weaver has a large, double gap to cross, namely performing their rotation while mechanics are going on (and no, the Chronos won't be there to give aegis on a group who accepted a newbie), with their baseline keyboard spam damage being so low that it might disappoint them from doing raids altogether.

    The community at times can be so full of themselves that they even believe everyone has the same intentions and objectives as they do when wanting to raid. Your personal feelings of how you wanted to learn the best rotations and make your runs safer by playing the top benchmarks is not even remotely the only possible way of going about things. Some people might actually (gasp) want to just get on some easier build and see themselves through content, get some skins, and overall play around the mechanics, not on their piano keyboard. Quite ironic how GW2 has some of the most accessible raiding encounters out there but at the same time one of the most stubborn communities who purposely go out of their way to optimize themselves into what I can only perceive as bureaucracy through DPS rotation before they are able to kill a simple boss who would die to 8 Heralds and 2 Minstrel Chronos Auto Attacking it.

    Nothing is stoping people from starting their own squads and ask for what ever they like.

    This is an easy answer of course, but a quite dishonest one at that. Nothing stops me to play exactly the way I want except that I need 9 other players to do so in general. I raid myself, and play meta myself, and know just how easier it would be to play easier classes on things but don't because I have no time to build a group that will accept running easier builds. There is that much more of an incentive to just keep wiping and kicking those who can't play the meta classes instead of making a safe group of people [who know the mechanics and certainly would not fail if only having to care about mechanics] to 1 shot the encounters. A scourge team to kill VG no greens without even barely moving around for example will most times take longer to find 10 people than a meta group where players will keep getting teleported and fighting each other over aegis and pushing seekers. Players follow incentive, both from the game developers but also from the community that builds up around the game modes. It's not an actual thing for you to do everything you want all the time, even inside the game, and even though nothing stops you from leaving the game at any moment or doing another thing that you wanted; you might just not think about it enough to notice that you're doing things you didn't want to here or there (and might even refer to it as "grinding" to express how much you didn't want to do it - but did anyway).

    If you really think nothing is stopping any one person to do something in an exclusively multiplayer game, you probably just didn't have any issues with the community aspect yourself. And of course, if we have neither gone through something nor are capable of putting ourselves in another place to imagine what it would be like to go through that, to us it will seem like a non-issue.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maxwelgm.4315 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @maxwelgm.4315 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I'm reminded of a recent video by Mighty Teapot, where he lamented the state of raiding in the game. Not because raids aren't fun, but because the community ruins it. The raiders would rather flail and fail while emulating the leet strategies and builds of speedrunners instead of going with consistent, comfortable, and safe tactics. Nobody needs these high-risk, niche tactics and builds. Raiding would not only be possible with a conventional build, but easier overall. An excellent case of this is the power herald.

    Though it was several balance patches ago, I did some baseline DPS tests to see what the resting DPS rate was while auto-attacking, or while doing simple rotations. This was done as a way to analyze how punishing a class is to play, but it also provided a glimpse at a new vector. One that, sadly, nobody bothered to consider,: ease of DPS.

    When it comes to easy DPS, of the classes I looked at, Power Herald is second highest. 26.6k DPS, just by auto attacking and using IO/VH. The rotation is incredibly safe, incredibly easy, extremely flexible, and so braindead a pigeon could do it. Anybody can complete a raid on Power Herald. If somebody is organizing a raid, their first thought should be "Oh good, a power herald. I don't have to worry about this person, because they're sturdy and they'll do reliable, easy DPS." I would recommend bringing one, except most raiders default thought is "ew, not a weaver. KICK!"

    Sadly people are still as adamant as ever about this topic in spite of the never ending powercreep. People insist that "anyone can press a few buttons in order" but don't realize that the focus (as stressed over and over by SC themselves, yet people don't listen) is on the raid mechanics. If your rotation is so complex that it requires a player constantly giving you aegis just so won't drop off the 35k mark, great for you two for having synergy, but this is NOT the reality of a pug or even of the average organized group. I'd love if there was a separate "pug meta" composed of taking one finger pony DH and Herald builds with overly excessive Minstrel Chronos and full healing druids for sustain and boons (perhaps even throw some healing Scourge in there).

    SC even has all kinds of non optimal builds up there on their site now, updated with clear language to say that they can be used to achieve proper results and even give neat utilities sometimes, but people won't listen. Easy to play builds allow the supposedly bad group to learn the mechanics whereas the newbie trying to play Condi renegade and Weaver has a large, double gap to cross, namely performing their rotation while mechanics are going on (and no, the Chronos won't be there to give aegis on a group who accepted a newbie), with their baseline keyboard spam damage being so low that it might disappoint them from doing raids altogether.

    The community at times can be so full of themselves that they even believe everyone has the same intentions and objectives as they do when wanting to raid. Your personal feelings of how you wanted to learn the best rotations and make your runs safer by playing the top benchmarks is not even remotely the only possible way of going about things. Some people might actually (gasp) want to just get on some easier build and see themselves through content, get some skins, and overall play around the mechanics, not on their piano keyboard. Quite ironic how GW2 has some of the most accessible raiding encounters out there but at the same time one of the most stubborn communities who purposely go out of their way to optimize themselves into what I can only perceive as bureaucracy through DPS rotation before they are able to kill a simple boss who would die to 8 Heralds and 2 Minstrel Chronos Auto Attacking it.

    Nothing is stoping people from starting their own squads and ask for what ever they like.

    This is an easy answer of course, but a quite dishonest one at that. Nothing stops me to play exactly the way I want except that I need 9 other players to do so in general. I raid myself, and play meta myself, and know just how easier it would be to play easier classes on things but don't because I have no time to build a group that will accept running easier builds. There is that much more of an incentive to just keep wiping and kicking those who can't play the meta classes instead of making a safe group of people [who know the mechanics and certainly would not fail if only having to care about mechanics] to 1 shot the encounters. A scourge team to kill VG no greens without even barely moving around for example will most times take longer to find 10 people than a meta group where players will keep getting teleported and fighting each other over aegis and pushing seekers. Players follow incentive, both from the game developers but also from the community that builds up around the game modes. It's not an actual thing for you to do everything you want all the time, even inside the game, and even though nothing stops you from leaving the game at any moment or doing another thing that you wanted; you might just not think about it enough to notice that you're doing things you didn't want to here or there (and might even refer to it as "grinding" to express how much you didn't want to do it - but did anyway).

    If you really think nothing is stopping any one person to do something in an exclusively multiplayer game, you probably just didn't have any issues with the community aspect yourself. And of course, if we have neither gone through something nor are capable of putting ourselves in another place to imagine what it would be like to go through that, to us it will seem like a non-issue.

    Hence why getting a group of likeminded people are important and starting groups to look for that is whats needed to do so.
    Asking random people to accept anything becouse you want it to be so is not.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I'm reminded of a recent video by Mighty Teapot, where he lamented the state of raiding in the game. Not because raids aren't fun, but because the community ruins it. The raiders would rather flail and fail while emulating the leet strategies and builds of speedrunners instead of going with consistent, comfortable, and safe tactics. Nobody needs these high-risk, niche tactics and builds. Raiding would not only be possible with a conventional build, but easier overall. An excellent case of this is the power herald.

    Though it was several balance patches ago, I did some baseline DPS tests to see what the resting DPS rate was while auto-attacking, or while doing simple rotations. This was done as a way to analyze how punishing a class is to play, but it also provided a glimpse at a new vector. One that, sadly, nobody bothered to consider,: ease of DPS.

    When it comes to easy DPS, of the classes I looked at, Power Herald is second highest. 26.6k DPS, just by auto attacking and using IO/VH. The rotation is incredibly safe, incredibly easy, extremely flexible, and so braindead a pigeon could do it. Anybody can complete a raid on Power Herald. If somebody is organizing a raid, their first thought should be "Oh good, a power herald. I don't have to worry about this person, because they're sturdy and they'll do reliable, easy DPS." I would recommend bringing one, except most raiders default thought is "ew, not a weaver. KICK!"

    Have a link to this video? I'm very interested.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2019

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I'm reminded of a recent video by Mighty Teapot, where he lamented the state of raiding in the game. Not because raids aren't fun, but because the community ruins it. The raiders would rather flail and fail while emulating the leet strategies and builds of speedrunners instead of going with consistent, comfortable, and safe tactics. Nobody needs these high-risk, niche tactics and builds. Raiding would not only be possible with a conventional build, but easier overall. An excellent case of this is the power herald.

    Though it was several balance patches ago, I did some baseline DPS tests to see what the resting DPS rate was while auto-attacking, or while doing simple rotations. This was done as a way to analyze how punishing a class is to play, but it also provided a glimpse at a new vector. One that, sadly, nobody bothered to consider,: ease of DPS.

    When it comes to easy DPS, of the classes I looked at, Power Herald is second highest. 26.6k DPS, just by auto attacking and using IO/VH. The rotation is incredibly safe, incredibly easy, extremely flexible, and so braindead a pigeon could do it. Anybody can complete a raid on Power Herald. If somebody is organizing a raid, their first thought should be "Oh good, a power herald. I don't have to worry about this person, because they're sturdy and they'll do reliable, easy DPS." I would recommend bringing one, except most raiders default thought is "ew, not a weaver. KICK!"

    Have a link to this video? I'm very interested.

    probably is no video as the numbers sound like complete kitten

    the main benchmarked dps rotation of power herald is 27.2k https://www.snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/herald/boon/

    that guy is claiming 26.6k dps just autoattacking and using vengeful hammers and impossible odds upkeep
    which is both not accurate, and not realistic

    not to forget one tiny detail offcourse

    the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

    but the suggested 26.6k dps build doesn't even run glint, lol so what boon will you exactly share? stability? i'm sure that will not affect your dps at all /s

  • Blood Red Arachnid.2493Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I'm reminded of a recent video by Mighty Teapot, where he lamented the state of raiding in the game. Not because raids aren't fun, but because the community ruins it. The raiders would rather flail and fail while emulating the leet strategies and builds of speedrunners instead of going with consistent, comfortable, and safe tactics. Nobody needs these high-risk, niche tactics and builds. Raiding would not only be possible with a conventional build, but easier overall. An excellent case of this is the power herald.

    Though it was several balance patches ago, I did some baseline DPS tests to see what the resting DPS rate was while auto-attacking, or while doing simple rotations. This was done as a way to analyze how punishing a class is to play, but it also provided a glimpse at a new vector. One that, sadly, nobody bothered to consider,: ease of DPS.

    When it comes to easy DPS, of the classes I looked at, Power Herald is second highest. 26.6k DPS, just by auto attacking and using IO/VH. The rotation is incredibly safe, incredibly easy, extremely flexible, and so braindead a pigeon could do it. Anybody can complete a raid on Power Herald. If somebody is organizing a raid, their first thought should be "Oh good, a power herald. I don't have to worry about this person, because they're sturdy and they'll do reliable, easy DPS." I would recommend bringing one, except most raiders default thought is "ew, not a weaver. KICK!"

    Have a link to this video? I'm very interested.

    It was the middle of a two-hour livestream. I think it was this one:

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Blood Red Arachnid.2493Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    probably is no video as the numbers sound like complete kitten

    the main benchmarked dps rotation of power herald is 27.2k https://www.snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/herald/boon/

    that guy is claiming 26.6k dps just autoattacking and using vengeful hammers and impossible odds upkeep
    which is both not accurate, and not realistic

    not to forget one tiny detail offcourse

    the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

    but the suggested 26.6k dps build doesn't even run glint, lol so what boon will you exactly share? stability? i'm sure that will not affect your dps at all /s

    Thank you for proving that you know jack squat about how power herald works. Look, you don't run Glint if all of the boons are taken care of. There's no reason to. Instead, you run shiro + jalis, precisely because maintaining IO/VH is a large DPS increase. I didn't make 20 videos of me auto attacking the golem, both because it would take an inordinate amount of time, all of the "leet" people only care about maximum benchmarks, and because literally all I did was set up the raid golem, eat food buffs, and then auto attack. That is all. You can replicate this test right now if you wanted to. It's not that hard.

    Little bit of trivia: I had to do the test twice. The first time I decided I would only switch legends when I ran out of energy. But, I encountered a problem: the golem died before I got out of shiro. Knowing that this was unrealistic, I decided to forcibly swap legends every 10 seconds, regardless of energy, since in real combat that is a more likely scenario. This averaged the two numbers out, to give a better result. However, this isn't always accurate, either. There are many raid bosses where yes, you would just sit in shiro for most of the phase and auto attack. In which case, the damage would be higher than what I listed.

    Also further to note is the date. This was before banners were nerfed. So, the numbers now will be slightly lower now than they were before.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

    No it isn't. There's not one mention of filling boon downtime in the OP.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    probably is no video as the numbers sound like complete kitten

    the main benchmarked dps rotation of power herald is 27.2k https://www.snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/herald/boon/

    that guy is claiming 26.6k dps just autoattacking and using vengeful hammers and impossible odds upkeep
    which is both not accurate, and not realistic

    not to forget one tiny detail offcourse

    the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

    but the suggested 26.6k dps build doesn't even run glint, lol so what boon will you exactly share? stability? i'm sure that will not affect your dps at all /s

    Thank you for proving that you know jack squat about how power herald works. Look, you don't run Glint if all of the boons are taken care of. There's no reason to. Instead, you run shiro + jalis, precisely because maintaining IO/VH is a large DPS increase. I didn't make 20 videos of me auto attacking the golem, both because it would take an inordinate amount of time, all of the "leet" people only care about maximum benchmarks, and because literally all I did was set up the raid golem, eat food buffs, and then auto attack. That is all. You can replicate this test right now if you wanted to. It's not that hard.

    Little bit of trivia: I had to do the test twice. The first time I decided I would only switch legends when I ran out of energy. But, I encountered a problem: the golem died before I got out of shiro. Knowing that this was unrealistic, I decided to forcibly swap legends every 10 seconds, regardless of energy, since in real combat that is a more likely scenario. This averaged the two numbers out, to give a better result. However, this isn't always accurate, either. There are many raid bosses where yes, you would just sit in shiro for most of the phase and auto attack. In which case, the damage would be higher than what I listed.

    Also further to note is the date. This was before banners were nerfed. So, the numbers now will be slightly lower now than they were before.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

    No it isn't. There's not one mention of filling boon downtime in the OP.

    lol?

    if you would have scrolled up for 2 seconds (which you did not)

    you would have read the following: "power herald fills up boon uptime in pug groups that are lacking permanent boon upkeep"

    my question: what boons? as the so-called highest autoattacking dps build you imply isn't even using dragon stance?

    but since you did not scroll up, here

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    My point is that, in theory with good players, the supports will always permanently provide all the boons u need. This rarely happens in PuG settings. In imperfect (ie bad) groups Herald allows the gaps to be filled in without dedicating a Third full support. + Ferocity Aura in chrono-druid comps.

    Edit: to clarify, it rarely happens that said supports apply said boons permanently.

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    you are not there for the boons
    ferocity aura is (or should) be covered by a condi renegade/renegade healer/offensive renegade alacrity (quickbrand twin dueo)

    a dps herald is a joke, and will be seen as a joke

    Yeah about that. Not every group runs fb-ren and we're talking raids, pug raids at that, where chrono-druid is far more common and perfect boons rarely happen.

    A good Power Herald will fill in the boon gaps, not be the main provider. So yes, it's useful.

    But you're right, this is the forums where everybody thinks everybody plays their way and anything different is wrong. My bad, wont make that mistake again!

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    Ya glint/shiro is better dps, but the real better dps option is to not play Herald, so you might as well bring stuff to justify your presence... And cheesing mechanics isn't just for bad players, it's higher dps... It's why speedclear strats use stability to skip cairn spatials and have chrono's/qb's aegis gorse slams instead of everyone dodging them, etc--time spend dodging is time spent breaking your rotation.

    And what I meant by the worse the group, the better the herald wasn't referring to the herald's personal dps, I meant that a bad group benefits more from having things like pulsing Fury/extra Might gen/Prot, or even RotGD--aka things good groups don't want or need, but are actually probably more useful to bad groups then copying speed clear builds and not executing them properly is.

    And I dunno about the na skill ceiling being lower, probably is, but there's also a lot of really bad players on eu too... There's just less overall people on na, so sometimes you'd rather just take a whatever class than sit in LFG longer waiting for a meta pick with all his cm titles to come along. Like, nothing in this game is hard, you don't need to squeeze 100% optimized strategies out of the PUG scene to get your weekly clears and move on with your day.

  • Blood Red Arachnid.2493Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    probably is no video as the numbers sound like complete kitten

    the main benchmarked dps rotation of power herald is 27.2k https://www.snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/herald/boon/

    that guy is claiming 26.6k dps just autoattacking and using vengeful hammers and impossible odds upkeep
    which is both not accurate, and not realistic

    not to forget one tiny detail offcourse

    the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

    but the suggested 26.6k dps build doesn't even run glint, lol so what boon will you exactly share? stability? i'm sure that will not affect your dps at all /s

    Thank you for proving that you know jack squat about how power herald works. Look, you don't run Glint if all of the boons are taken care of. There's no reason to. Instead, you run shiro + jalis, precisely because maintaining IO/VH is a large DPS increase. I didn't make 20 videos of me auto attacking the golem, both because it would take an inordinate amount of time, all of the "leet" people only care about maximum benchmarks, and because literally all I did was set up the raid golem, eat food buffs, and then auto attack. That is all. You can replicate this test right now if you wanted to. It's not that hard.

    Little bit of trivia: I had to do the test twice. The first time I decided I would only switch legends when I ran out of energy. But, I encountered a problem: the golem died before I got out of shiro. Knowing that this was unrealistic, I decided to forcibly swap legends every 10 seconds, regardless of energy, since in real combat that is a more likely scenario. This averaged the two numbers out, to give a better result. However, this isn't always accurate, either. There are many raid bosses where yes, you would just sit in shiro for most of the phase and auto attack. In which case, the damage would be higher than what I listed.

    Also further to note is the date. This was before banners were nerfed. So, the numbers now will be slightly lower now than they were before.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

    No it isn't. There's not one mention of filling boon downtime in the OP.

    lol?

    if you would have scrolled up for 2 seconds (which you did not)

    you would have read the following: "power herald fills up boon uptime in pug groups that are lacking permanent boon upkeep"

    my question: what boons? as the so-called highest autoattacking dps build you imply isn't even using dragon stance?

    but since you did not scroll up, here

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    My point is that, in theory with good players, the supports will always permanently provide all the boons u need. This rarely happens in PuG settings. In imperfect (ie bad) groups Herald allows the gaps to be filled in without dedicating a Third full support. + Ferocity Aura in chrono-druid comps.

    Edit: to clarify, it rarely happens that said supports apply said boons permanently.

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    you are not there for the boons
    ferocity aura is (or should) be covered by a condi renegade/renegade healer/offensive renegade alacrity (quickbrand twin dueo)

    a dps herald is a joke, and will be seen as a joke

    Yeah about that. Not every group runs fb-ren and we're talking raids, pug raids at that, where chrono-druid is far more common and perfect boons rarely happen.

    A good Power Herald will fill in the boon gaps, not be the main provider. So yes, it's useful.

    But you're right, this is the forums where everybody thinks everybody plays their way and anything different is wrong. My bad, wont make that mistake again!

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    Ya glint/shiro is better dps, but the real better dps option is to not play Herald, so you might as well bring stuff to justify your presence... And cheesing mechanics isn't just for bad players, it's higher dps... It's why speedclear strats use stability to skip cairn spatials and have chrono's/qb's aegis gorse slams instead of everyone dodging them, etc--time spend dodging is time spent breaking your rotation.

    And what I meant by the worse the group, the better the herald wasn't referring to the herald's personal dps, I meant that a bad group benefits more from having things like pulsing Fury/extra Might gen/Prot, or even RotGD--aka things good groups don't want or need, but are actually probably more useful to bad groups then copying speed clear builds and not executing them properly is.

    And I dunno about the na skill ceiling being lower, probably is, but there's also a lot of really bad players on eu too... There's just less overall people on na, so sometimes you'd rather just take a whatever class than sit in LFG longer waiting for a meta pick with all his cm titles to come along. Like, nothing in this game is hard, you don't need to squeeze 100% optimized strategies out of the PUG scene to get your weekly clears and move on with your day.

    The world doesn't start and stop with you. I'm responding to the OP. You don't get to just hijack the thread with whatever nonsense you bring up.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 5, 2019

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    probably is no video as the numbers sound like complete kitten

    the main benchmarked dps rotation of power herald is 27.2k https://www.snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/herald/boon/

    that guy is claiming 26.6k dps just autoattacking and using vengeful hammers and impossible odds upkeep
    which is both not accurate, and not realistic

    not to forget one tiny detail offcourse

    the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

    but the suggested 26.6k dps build doesn't even run glint, lol so what boon will you exactly share? stability? i'm sure that will not affect your dps at all /s

    Thank you for proving that you know jack squat about how power herald works. Look, you don't run Glint if all of the boons are taken care of. There's no reason to. Instead, you run shiro + jalis, precisely because maintaining IO/VH is a large DPS increase. I didn't make 20 videos of me auto attacking the golem, both because it would take an inordinate amount of time, all of the "leet" people only care about maximum benchmarks, and because literally all I did was set up the raid golem, eat food buffs, and then auto attack. That is all. You can replicate this test right now if you wanted to. It's not that hard.

    Little bit of trivia: I had to do the test twice. The first time I decided I would only switch legends when I ran out of energy. But, I encountered a problem: the golem died before I got out of shiro. Knowing that this was unrealistic, I decided to forcibly swap legends every 10 seconds, regardless of energy, since in real combat that is a more likely scenario. This averaged the two numbers out, to give a better result. However, this isn't always accurate, either. There are many raid bosses where yes, you would just sit in shiro for most of the phase and auto attack. In which case, the damage would be higher than what I listed.

    Also further to note is the date. This was before banners were nerfed. So, the numbers now will be slightly lower now than they were before.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    the discussion was "power herald fills in the boon-downtimes off the other supports"

    No it isn't. There's not one mention of filling boon downtime in the OP.

    lol?

    if you would have scrolled up for 2 seconds (which you did not)

    you would have read the following: "power herald fills up boon uptime in pug groups that are lacking permanent boon upkeep"

    my question: what boons? as the so-called highest autoattacking dps build you imply isn't even using dragon stance?

    but since you did not scroll up, here

    @Ertrak.9506 said:
    My point is that, in theory with good players, the supports will always permanently provide all the boons u need. This rarely happens in PuG settings. In imperfect (ie bad) groups Herald allows the gaps to be filled in without dedicating a Third full support. + Ferocity Aura in chrono-druid comps.

    Edit: to clarify, it rarely happens that said supports apply said boons permanently.

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    you are not there for the boons
    ferocity aura is (or should) be covered by a condi renegade/renegade healer/offensive renegade alacrity (quickbrand twin dueo)

    a dps herald is a joke, and will be seen as a joke

    Yeah about that. Not every group runs fb-ren and we're talking raids, pug raids at that, where chrono-druid is far more common and perfect boons rarely happen.

    A good Power Herald will fill in the boon gaps, not be the main provider. So yes, it's useful.

    But you're right, this is the forums where everybody thinks everybody plays their way and anything different is wrong. My bad, wont make that mistake again!

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    Ya glint/shiro is better dps, but the real better dps option is to not play Herald, so you might as well bring stuff to justify your presence... And cheesing mechanics isn't just for bad players, it's higher dps... It's why speedclear strats use stability to skip cairn spatials and have chrono's/qb's aegis gorse slams instead of everyone dodging them, etc--time spend dodging is time spent breaking your rotation.

    And what I meant by the worse the group, the better the herald wasn't referring to the herald's personal dps, I meant that a bad group benefits more from having things like pulsing Fury/extra Might gen/Prot, or even RotGD--aka things good groups don't want or need, but are actually probably more useful to bad groups then copying speed clear builds and not executing them properly is.

    And I dunno about the na skill ceiling being lower, probably is, but there's also a lot of really bad players on eu too... There's just less overall people on na, so sometimes you'd rather just take a whatever class than sit in LFG longer waiting for a meta pick with all his cm titles to come along. Like, nothing in this game is hard, you don't need to squeeze 100% optimized strategies out of the PUG scene to get your weekly clears and move on with your day.

    The world doesn't start and stop with you. I'm responding to the OP. You don't get to just hijack the thread with whatever nonsense you bring up.

    ironically you now go my opinion > yours

    what exactly did you say again with the world and starting/stopping?

    and benchmarks are nonsense?
    feel free to post yours

  • Blood Red Arachnid.2493Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    ironically you now go my opinion > yours

    what exactly did you say again with the world and starting/stopping?

    and benchmarks are nonsense?
    feel free to post yours

    This doesn't make sense. Why are you even here? Serious question.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    ironically you now go my opinion > yours

    what exactly did you say again with the world and starting/stopping?

    and benchmarks are nonsense?
    feel free to post yours

    This doesn't make sense. Why are you even here? Serious question.

    The major complaint in every thread is "i get kicked due to low dps"

    the result is pve folks not knowing any better then pressing 11111111 because that's all that's needed in open world
    now here you are, telling those very same pve folks to only press 1111111 (hence your auto attack rotation)

    geee, i wonder what the outcome will be kick

    if you fail to see they are directly connected with each other, then may i suggest taking your biased pink goggles off, and see the wider-picture?
    ironically you call us (the meta folks) close minded but here you are only accepting your own vision..

    well done /gg

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    ironically you now go my opinion > yours

    what exactly did you say again with the world and starting/stopping?

    and benchmarks are nonsense?
    feel free to post yours

    This doesn't make sense. Why are you even here? Serious question.

    The major complaint in every thread is "i get kicked due to low dps"

    the result is pve folks not knowing any better then pressing 11111111 because that's all that's needed in open world
    now here you are, telling those very same pve folks to only press 1111111 (hence your auto attack rotation)

    geee, i wonder what the outcome will be kick

    if you fail to see they are directly connected with each other, then may i suggest taking your biased pink goggles off, and see the wider-picture?
    ironically you call us (the meta folks) close minded but here you are only accepting your own vision..

    well done /gg

    Yeah I thought so. You're just here to be annoying. You don't care about the actual discussion.. Do us all a favor and leave the ethics and balance discussion to those of us who have ethics.

    keep your insults to yourself

    the ideal situation would be to make sure everyone improves.
    i'm not a squad leader in inn (raid training guild) to teach people how to be mediocre
    i am there to teach them how mechanics work, and what "standards" are.

    standards folks like you (how does it feel to be put in a category?) spit on meta, and find yourself superior and everyone else should be like-minded like you else they get labeled "annoying"

    newsflash for you, pretty boy a power dps is there for burst. in any short dps phase, the power herald will be at the very bottom and will find itself struggling to be higher then even an alacnade/quickbrand
    that is a guaranteed kick, then here on the forums "boohoo i got kick insert reason

    all i want is the raid community to be wider, and more skilled. i contribute to that..you do the exact oppsoite by dumbing it even more down

    but time to less this thread die out, enough time wasted here with people that then call the meta" narrow minded" but here they happily swear with offmeta, and fall of the boat for obvious reasons

    world boss week, plenty of time for you to press 111111 now

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    ironically you now go my opinion > yours

    what exactly did you say again with the world and starting/stopping?

    and benchmarks are nonsense?
    feel free to post yours

    This doesn't make sense. Why are you even here? Serious question.

    The major complaint in every thread is "i get kicked due to low dps"

    the result is pve folks not knowing any better then pressing 11111111 because that's all that's needed in open world
    now here you are, telling those very same pve folks to only press 1111111 (hence your auto attack rotation)

    geee, i wonder what the outcome will be kick

    if you fail to see they are directly connected with each other, then may i suggest taking your biased pink goggles off, and see the wider-picture?
    ironically you call us (the meta folks) close minded but here you are only accepting your own vision..

    well done /gg

    Yeah I thought so. You're just here to be annoying. You don't care about the actual discussion.. Do us all a favor and leave the ethics and balance discussion to those of us who have ethics.

    keep your insults to yourself

    the ideal situation would be to make sure everyone improves.
    i'm not a squad leader in inn (raid training guild) to teach people how to be mediocre
    i am there to teach them how mechanics work, and what "standards" are.

    standards folks like you (how does it feel to be put in a category?) spit on meta, and find yourself superior and everyone else should be like-minded like you else they get labeled "annoying"

    newsflash for you, pretty boy a power dps is there for burst. in any short dps phase, the power herald will be at the very bottom and will find itself struggling to be higher then even an alacnade/quickbrand
    that is a guaranteed kick, then here on the forums "boohoo i got kick insert reason

    all i want is the raid community to be wider, and more skilled. i contribute to that..you do the exact oppsoite by dumbing it even more down

    but time to less this thread die out, enough time wasted here with people that then call the meta" narrow minded" but here they happily swear with offmeta, and fall of the boat for obvious reasons

    world boss week, plenty of time for you to press 111111 now

    You won't get both wider and more skilled population, there's no working around this. It's either like the rest of the game or it's niche content, after all people play the rest of the game for a reason and raiders burn through the rest of the content (at best) and go back to raiding only for a reason as well. Personally I'm ok with it being niche, anyways.