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So when we gonna change the mounts?


reddie.5861

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"Creaitov.6328" said:

I agree that fixing CC immunity would solve a lot of problems, but regarding the effects the warclaw has on the classes I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Mind you that most of what I've said before comes from the point of view of capturing/defending objectives rather than random fights on the road, where I agree that the warclaw doesn't really matter that much.

Every profession has something valuable to offer in small/medium scale. In large scale, not every profession has enough utility to be worth bringing. That's why on the 15< player scale, I would want someone who's good regardless of what they're playing. I don't want a Thief being the first to respond to defense if that Thief plays poorly and ends up rallying people the same way I don't want a Firebrand that doesn't know how to support.

As someone who routinely responds to scouts as a means of finding action, I know that when I make my own calls I want to see players I trust. I don't much care what it is they're playing.

I don't at all mind if we disagree with each other, I just wanted to state my feelings on the matter.

Yeah its ok. I guess I'm still a little bit upset about how the last year has been pretty much nerfs nonstop to mesmer and thief, and then the warclaw gets released and takes one of the few things those classes excel at and gives it to everyone else. It is at the very least disappointing. But it seems like I'm the only one who thinks like this so enough of that.

Just to say something on topic lol, the exalted armors from the auric basin meta already have a breakbar system in place with a complete UI bar and everything, so I imagine that is how it would work and look like if we added it to the warclaw. Regarding the numbers I think it should be strong enough to resist at least 3 seconds of "condi"-CC like immob while also being weak enough so any stun should be an instant dismount. After all, you're trading one of your CCs for a guaranteed knockdown.

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@"Mil.3562" said:If Anet gives in to all your requests, and i bet more to come from you gankers, the Warclaw is not a mount anymore. The project failed. It did not served its intended purpose.

You want to disable it so badly that the mount becomes another speed boon. No wait, worse than a boon. Swiftness is instant cast, now, thanks to you guys, Warclaw has a 3 sec delay for mounting again.

listen up, i do ganking i do roaming i do guild raids.

ganking is almost non sense nowadays unless u pair up with other gankers to insta rape down a mount, which will result in insta dead for whoever was up on the mount so in reality it doesnt change anything for me there beside the fact that i must play thief/ranger to get some hits off.roaming no1 wants to fight anymore roaming is pretty much dead, it was already in bad state but nowadays.. meh fuck it ;p

guild raids here is what i meant to say

so i play thief in guild raids, so normally u have revs to pop necro marks correct? guess what i do on my badass super tank thief i just dodge tru all marks on my mount then i turn around and i hide behind my guild again or sometimes i just run tru them cus who cares? i cant be cc'd and these marks wont pop me off my mount anyway, and even if i get popped off for w/e reason i got stun break and another 3 dodges + vaults (in my case) who fuck gonna kill me?

u see warclaw is a amazing add to WvW, okay sure no problem but ur saying if we do what i suggest then mount is useless.but why? right now when youre on your mount u have FREEPASS tru big ass enemy zerg, is that what WvW was meant to be? so u can just storm tru enemies? without any downsides?is WvW suppose to force people into buying PoF? while most of WvW people dont even care for content but now cus of mounts they are forced to beat it or buy pof, because o hai i command on my mount so better get ur self a mount or u cant keep up with me and u constantly die to gankers.

i cant really think of any good reason to keep mount ingame, im just asking for nerfs cus i know some players like the mount so much well keep it then but nerf the fuck out of mount cus it doesnt have a place in WvW.

For whoever said about 3seconds CD on mounts when u get off ur mount how is that a nerf?no1 is like ooomygod i saw a ganker let me demount real quick and mount up again :D:D:D!! heuehue? jaja? no every1 is like omygod im a blobber my commander isnt near me i gotta run like no tomorrow and pop all my 3 dodges instantly even if the "ganking" person is standing still and do nothing ima still pop all my dodges so for sure i pass that guy !3s cd is not a nerf neither a buff its nothing.u get popped off ur mount u couldnt remount anywayu demounted ur self u would get jumped if people wanted to jump you anyway so u would still be dead.there has not been done any nerf to mount.

and why mounts in PvE have all lower HP then freaking warclaw?if u wanna use pull so badly and not be a one hit when pulling the gate be my guest give warclaw +1000% deffence when pulling freaking gate as if 3 warclaws doing 2k dmg gonna make a different.

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and sorry for this but what is a breakbar? and how this gonna help warclaw? is it the green shit bar?? but this still doesnt work in my opinion (if its that atleast) if for example i root some1 i just want them to stand still, i dont wanna bust tru a green bar unloading CC's. just 1 click 1 root 1 standing still warclaw.

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I see so many people stating that the mount is NOT for avoiding combat, but for mobility to get around the map, ok cool. If that really is the case, then the mount doesn't need HP, any hit that puts you in combat dismounts you (no knockdown effect), mounts can still dodge but dodges are linked to your characters dodges. Speed of mount remains untouched.

So you keep your map mobility, but avoiding any fight you don't want is no longer possible.

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

I agree that fixing CC immunity would solve a lot of problems, but regarding the effects the warclaw has on the classes I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Mind you that most of what I've said before comes from the point of view of capturing/defending objectives rather than random fights on the road, where I agree that the warclaw doesn't really matter that much.

Every profession has something valuable to offer in small/medium scale. In large scale, not every profession has enough utility to be worth bringing. That's why on the 15< player scale, I would want someone who's good regardless of what they're playing. I don't want a Thief being the first to respond to defense if that Thief plays poorly and ends up rallying people the same way I don't want a Firebrand that doesn't know how to support.

As someone who routinely responds to scouts as a means of finding action, I know that when I make my own calls I want to see players I trust. I don't much care what it is they're playing.

I don't at all mind if we disagree with each other, I just wanted to state my feelings on the matter.

Yeah, every profession is good at some things, these things include picking fights, so i don't see how it was unfair? You keep talking about as soon as combat starts but the problem is that the combat isn't starting, no forced engagements is a flawed system because it technically allows for no engagements to happen at all, or only outnumbered engagements. I see 80% less fights since mounts and i barely play because of it, and that is on my ranger, i see like no fights on my melee builds im forced to shelf. The mount isn't balanced, any build should be able to easilly dismount it provided they can do some damage.

Why do you say sorry not sorry on roaming builds losing their advantage when these non-roaming builds have massive advantages in the areas they excell at? Isn't that what balance is? Tradeoffs and choices, why should balance only matter when it doesn't favour you?

Also why shouldn't i be allowed to attack the other team in a PvP match? Like picking your fights? What PvP game works like this?

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@Anput.4620 said:

Yeah, every profession is good at some things, these things include picking fights, so i don't see how it was unfair? You keep talking about as soon as combat starts but the problem is that the combat isn't starting, no forced engagements is a flawed system because it technically allows for no engagements to happen at all, or only outnumbered engagements. I see 80% less fights since mounts and i barely play because of it, and that is on my ranger, i see like no fights on my melee builds im forced to shelf. The mount isn't balanced, any build should be able to easilly dismount it provided they can do some damage.

Why do you say sorry not sorry on roaming builds losing their advantage when these non-roaming builds have massive advantages in the areas they excell at? Isn't that what balance is? Tradeoffs and choices, why should balance only matter when it doesn't favour you?

Basically already answered this.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

I think the issue with mounts is the inability to stop them. Until mounts can be CC'd, they'll be problematic. I disagree completely that this has anything to do with professions. Every profession that makes a good roamer still has that strength. They even have a better chance at dismounting players than ones that are objectively worse roamers. Prior to mounts, if a Firebrand and a Scourge didn't want to take a particular fight (perhaps because the numbers were against them) they had to take it anyway. Now, they can choose not to. Although this promotes passive gameplay, it has nothing to do with professions. As soon as combat begins, the ones with greater mobility and better tools to dispatch lesser equipped professions/builds will have the upper hand. If mounts could be CC'd, roaming would essentially revert to what it was before, albeit a little faster paced.

I don't know why people are saying there are less fights. I frequently roam (by myself) on a Necromancer. I find plenty of fights. Maybe it's because people know once they engage me there isn't a high probability that I'll dip out as soon as the fight doesn't favor me.

And in case you misinterpret what I'm saying; many players dislike when their personal "rules" are broken. A common one is disengaging completely or resetting. Personally, I don't care what people do. All's fair in love and war. If I cared, I wouldn't have spent the last 5+ years roaming on the worst possible class. If people want to reset 50 times, bring 20 friends or shoot me with siege, so be it. I should choose my fights better or I should be more aware. It's not always my fault when I die but when it is, I learn from it. What I've learned from mounts is that most of the time, players will avoid you if you're both on mounts. If you dismount first, there's a good chance they will as well and will begin to attack.

I think people are overreacting and trying to find things to blame for their inability to adapt. Yes mounts could use further adjustments but the whole "roamers aren't good at roaming anymore and zerglings can do both!" stuff is just nonsense.

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

Yeah, every profession is good at some things, these things include picking fights, so i don't see how it was unfair? You keep talking about as soon as combat starts but the problem is that the combat isn't starting, no forced engagements is a flawed system because it technically allows for no engagements to happen at all, or only outnumbered engagements. I see 80% less fights since mounts and i barely play because of it, and that is on my ranger, i see like no fights on my melee builds im forced to shelf. The mount isn't balanced, any build should be able to easilly dismount it provided they can do some damage.

Why do you say sorry not sorry on roaming builds losing their advantage when these non-roaming builds have massive advantages in the areas they excell at? Isn't that what balance is? Tradeoffs and choices, why should balance only matter when it doesn't favour you?

Basically already answered this.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

I think the issue with mounts is the inability to stop them. Until mounts can be CC'd, they'll be problematic. I disagree completely that this has anything to do with professions.
Every profession that makes a good roamer still has that strength. They even have a better chance at dismounting players than ones that are objectively worse roamers.
Prior to mounts, if a Firebrand and a Scourge didn't want to take a particular fight (perhaps because the numbers were against them) they had to take it anyway. Now, they can choose not to. Although this promotes passive gameplay, it has nothing to do with professions. As soon as combat begins, the ones with greater mobility and better tools to dispatch lesser equipped professions/builds will have the upper hand. If mounts could be CC'd, roaming would essentially revert to what it was before, albeit a little faster paced.

I don't know why people are saying there are less fights. I frequently roam (by myself) on a Necromancer. I find plenty of fights. Maybe it's because people know once they engage me there isn't a high probability that I'll dip out as soon as the fight doesn't favor me.

And in case you misinterpret what I'm saying; many players dislike when their personal "rules" are broken. A common one is disengaging completely or resetting. Personally, I don't care what people do. All's fair in love and war. If I cared, I wouldn't have spent the last 5+ years roaming on the worst possible class. If people want to reset 50 times, bring 20 friends or shoot me with siege, so be it. I should choose my fights better or I should be more aware. It's not always my fault when I die but when it is, I learn from it. What I've learned from mounts is that most of the time, players will avoid you if you're both on mounts. If you dismount first, there's a good chance they will as well and will begin to attack.

I think people are overreacting and trying to find things to blame for their inability to adapt. Yes mounts could use further adjustments but the whole "roamers aren't good at roaming anymore and zerglings can do both!" stuff is just nonsense.

When i dismount to shoot at someone they press spacebar and nope out of there. Why wouldn't someone engage a solo necro trying to dismount someone? Your view is a bit biased here really.

Free passage is objectively unbalanced though, it should be dismountable by anyone with relative ease, the dismounter doesn't even get a reward, you aren't entitled to a kill, but in such a mode you should be entitled to a fight.

Adapting is a lame thing to say when the mount is obviously overtuned imo.

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On the "mount speed is a nerf to mobile classes" thing: Well, sort of. Don't know if this is true for other classes, but a daredevil with a shortbow and the dash dodge can actually outrun the war kitty, at least in enemy territory (and dang near in friendly territory). Know it is an edge case argument, but there is still a purpose behind really building for movement speed, at least in the context of scouting/roaming. Plus trailing 5-10 mounted opponents behind you across the map is good for the lolz. :)

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@"JonnyForgotten.4276" said:On the "mount speed is a nerf to mobile classes" thing: Well, sort of. Don't know if this is true for other classes, but a daredevil with a shortbow and the dash dodge can actually outrun the war kitty, at least in enemy territory (and dang near in friendly territory). Know it is an edge case argument, but there is still a purpose behind really building for movement speed, at least in the context of scouting/roaming. Plus trailing 5-10 mounted opponents behind you across the map is good for the lolz. :)

Except no because i tried, even with quick pockets you can't.

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@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:I see so many people stating that the mount is NOT for avoiding combat, but for mobility to get around the map, ok cool. If that really is the case, then the mount doesn't need HP, any hit that puts you in combat dismounts you (no knockdown effect), mounts can still dodge but dodges are linked to your characters dodges. Speed of mount remains untouched.

So you keep your map mobility, but avoiding any fight you don't want is no longer possible.

So if i play beserk ele/thief/guard ill have 15k hp with mount and if i play dire necro ill have 35k HP?

Cant we Just say 15k HP and it's your healthbar?

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@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:I see so many people stating that the mount is NOT for avoiding combat, but for mobility to get around the map, ok cool. If that really is the case, then the mount doesn't need HP, any hit that puts you in combat dismounts you (no knockdown effect), mounts can still dodge but dodges are linked to your characters dodges. Speed of mount remains untouched.

So you keep your map mobility, but avoiding any fight you don't want is no longer possible.

So if i play beserk ele/thief/guard ill have 15k hp with mount and if i play dire necro ill have 35k HP?

Cant we Just say 15k HP and it's your healthbar?

Considering how vitality works if this gets implemented I think the mount should have a set amount of health and toughness and once you dismount your HP gets reduced to the same % of HP the mount had remaining on dismount. For example if the mount has 10k hp and you dismount at 5k (50%), the squishy 15k hp ele would end up with 7.5k while the fat 35k hp necro would end up with 17.5k hp. In both cases getting to 0 hp while mounted means getting downed.

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@Anput.4620 said:

@"JonnyForgotten.4276" said:On the "mount speed is a nerf to mobile classes" thing: Well, sort of. Don't know if this is true for other classes, but a daredevil with a shortbow and the dash dodge can actually outrun the war kitty, at least in enemy territory (and dang near in friendly territory). Know it is an edge case argument, but there is still a purpose behind really building for movement speed, at least in the context of scouting/roaming. Plus trailing 5-10 mounted opponents behind you across the map is good for the lolz. :)

Except no because i tried, even with quick pockets you can't.

No, really, you can. Neglected to mention I was also using the DD heal, SoA, and endurance food, but it is actually possible, although it does mean burning everything you've got to stay ahead.

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People who want the warclaw removed trigger me. I won't even explain why because I already did that in another post, but the fact that anet followed through with this adds to my reasoning of why I can barely take WvW players seriously. Those nerfs were outright unjustified, the warclaw doesn't even do anything it just hops like a few feet away; and you can only evade if you have the PvE trait for it. I was even going to buy the skin pack for it, but now clearly I don't give a crap about this.

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@"Aridon.8362" said:People who want the warclaw removed trigger me. I won't even explain why because I already did that in another post, but the fact that anet followed through with this adds to my reasoning of why I can barely take WvW players seriously. Those nerfs were outright unjustified, the warclaw doesn't even do anything it just hops like a few feet away; and you can only evade if you have the PvE trait for it. I was even going to buy the skin pack for it, but now clearly I don't give a kitten about this.

Objectively it is still better than no warclaw though :^)

And can you tell me how running around in circles inside an objective stalling so the opponent can't capture it is not worthy of a nerf? lol

Tbh it is a waste of time to discuss with someone in denial of how broken the mount is. "it doesn't even do anything, just hops like a few feet away", yeah except its 2-3 evades that cover a distance of 600 units each (used to be 900 units, 2 of those and you already got outside a LB ranger's range), and that adds up. If you want to move faster than swiftness speed in WvW, thats fine. If you want to remove the risk of running into enemy players or if you want to be able to run through a zerg without consequences, there is a problem. Oh and don't forget the CC immunity lol.

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Oh boy, another "I can't kill anyone in this game mode now that warclaw is here, so lets nerf it/remove it" thread. It's fine, and leave as is (or at least add the dismount skill so the whiners can go away). Some classes can't deal with the mount, boo hoo, but some classes aren't supposed to be able to deal with it, just like some classes can't handle other parts of the game. Get over it, adapt, move on. If you can't, that's really sad.

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If they reduce the number of dodge to 1 that should be enough, they could change that stamina mastery to an aoe buff that when you're mounted that increase nearby allies out of combat movement speed, that would be interesting and useful for people who don't own PoF.The HP of the mount is not a problem, a rev hammer 2 can kick a player out of his mount with one hit, rangers can pew pew mounts too. They're paper and we know that some classes can one shot them easily, 3 dodges just makes it harder.

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DD Tempest main here and I feel your pain.. We need a dismount skill.

They completely annihilated some builds and classes that rely on soft and hard CC to fight of which the mount is immune too.Any logical person can understand this is bad for the overall health of the game. Especially for an Open World PvP map.

I see the usual responses here since the mount dropped, "adapt and move on", "some classes werent meant to dismount" or "boohoo cant kill anyone"... Wish these guys would actually stop and think sensibly for a change instead of acting like classes were balanced around mount combat for the past 6 years.

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@"Alehin.3746" said:Friendly reminder: Anet doesn't care about "roaming". WvW is all about PvD and pip farming at this point. Don't expect any changes focused on roaming, specially if it goes against the casual zerglings.

Exactly this. The wall and gate changes prove it.

After HoT and gliders, anyone that didn't see mounts in WvW after PoF was being willfully ignorant. It's a selling point of the Xpac and way to push gem sales. It's here to stay. And it's designed with zerging in mind.

You want duels, go to PvP or your guild halls now. ANet has made it clear how they expect this mode to be played, and roaming/ganking is out. I suspect organized havoc is next.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:Exactly this. The wall and gate changes prove it.Yeah, T2/T3 being easier to siege by roamers and small havocs totally proves it.

Only it doesn't really make it easier for Roamers or Small Havoc groups to take towers and keeps. It doesn't take them AS LONG, sure. However, it HEAVILY favors all the zergs and blobs running around as it exponentially decreases their amount of time to breach a wall and get in. Especially since a Zerg or Blob has HUNDREDS of supplies and usually places up about 5 or 6 catas to tear down the wall in about 10 seconds now. So Kylden is not wrong.

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@"Karnasis.6892" said:Oh boy, another "I can't kill anyone in this game mode now that warclaw is here, so lets nerf it/remove it" thread. It's fine, and leave as is (or at least add the dismount skill so the whiners can go away). Some classes can't deal with the mount, boo hoo, but some classes aren't supposed to be able to deal with it, just like some classes can't handle other parts of the game. Get over it, adapt, move on. If you can't, that's really sad.

Warclaw brought more cheese, more people scared to fight,ganking, k-trainers, rallybots and took away build diversity.

PvP wise Warclaw is a disaster.

@Kylden Ar.3724 said:...ANet has made it clear how they expect this mode to be played...

How is it supposed to be played If its not roaming/havoc/duels ?Because its clear to me that blob fights are unplayable.Is it GvG ? ?

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