Unblockable — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Unblockable

Mordayn.6198Mordayn.6198 Member ✭✭✭
edited May 3, 2019 in PVP

Ok, it's time anet takes a look at one of the worst balanced abilities in the game. Soulbeast https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unstoppable_Union is a minor trait that gives them a 4s unblockable on a 10s cd if they go into beastmode then drop it. The issue is that unblockable doesn't only work on blocks, it also bypasses projectile destruction. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable . This ability has no counter play other than dodge but good luck trying to dodge against a 4s 10s cd unblockable proc. Honestly what they should do is tie unblockable to only bypass block mechanics and allow projectile reflect and destruction to be a viable counter to it. This would keep the trait viable as it would still be able to get through blocks but wouldn't be a god tier proc like it is now. They'd still have an extremely low cd proc of it for melee attacks and range if the target doesn't have projectile reflect or destruction. In it's current state though, it bypasses dynamic defensive gameplay of too many skills and is way too powerful. Some classes don't have access to reflect so they are just getting eaten up by Soulbeast unblockable burst and it's not healthy for the game.

Comments

  • Mordayn.6198Mordayn.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    We had another discussion going on here https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/75427/question-about-unblockable-going-through-more-than-just-blocks . From what I'm reading reflection should still work on unblockable but it was allowed to bypass destruction skills in the latest update https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74356/game-update-notes-april-23-2019#latest . Skills that destroy missiles will now block missiles instead. This change affects the following skills:

    Elementalist: Swirling Winds
    Engineer: Launch Wall
    Guardian: Deflecting Shot, Refraction, Sanctuary, Shield of the Avenger, Zealot's Defense
    Mesmer: Illusionary Warden
    Necromancer: Corrosive Poison Cloud
    Revenant: Inspiring Reinforcement (Underwater)
    Thief: Sniper's Cover, Smoke Screen, Concealed Defeat
    Warrior: Winds of Disenchantment
    
  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Weekly mandatory post I see.

  • Mordayn.6198Mordayn.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    In it's current state it's a broken OP effect that had some counter play from projectile destruction that now has no counter play on any class that doesn't have reflection. I just want to know what the balance team was thinking when they made that update.

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You can still LoS it. That's what I try to do :-)

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mordayn.6198

    It isn't Unstoppable Union alone that is making it feel OP. It's when both of these are being used:

    There are a couple solutions I've thought of. Either the unblockable on one of the two needs to go, or turn down the unblockable timer on both of them to 2s only.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    not only unstoppable union is "strong

    both fresh reinforcements (boonbeast) and unstoppable union (pew pew rangers) are surprisingly strong for just being adept traits

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    Reduce the amount of abilities that can block / reflect projectiles and remove unblockable attacks from the game.

    In a game with FB, long bow ranger without that trait is useless most of the time, something needs to be revised and it's not just the mechanics of non-blockable attacks.

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    Or you can do the sane thing and make it so that only a certain amount of hits become unblockable. How about 3 hits?

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    Unblockables are a bad idea any way while guard uses blocks as active defense. I have no idea why active defense need a counter. That’s like make a attack which ignores dodges

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Unblockables are a bad idea any way while guard uses blocks as active defense. I have no idea why active defense need a counter. That’s like make a attack which ignores dodges

    Line of Warding. Shocking aura.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • @Balsa.3951 said:
    Unblockables are a bad idea any way while guard uses blocks as active defense. I have no idea why active defense need a counter. That’s like make a attack which ignores dodges

    Blocks, invulnerability, aegis, bubbles and more blocks

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Unblockables are a bad idea any way while guard uses blocks as active defense. I have no idea why active defense need a counter. That’s like make a attack which ignores dodges

    Line of Warding. Shocking aura.

    Not sure what shocking aura does but line of warding as well sanctuary are hardly called attacks

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2019

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Unblockables are a bad idea any way while guard uses blocks as active defense. I have no idea why active defense need a counter. That’s like make a attack which ignores dodges

    Just play reaper for a few months to learn how to play with no active defences at all, and you'll play your guard without ever needing a block ever again!

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2019

    @Balsa.3951 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Unblockables are a bad idea any way while guard uses blocks as active defense. I have no idea why active defense need a counter. That’s like make a attack which ignores dodges

    Line of Warding. Shocking aura.

    Not sure what shocking aura does but line of warding as well sanctuary are hardly called attacks

    Shocking Aura stuns any attacker that touches it.

    Being DD Tempest for PvP its rather handy to upload 12s of that Aura to allies for the first mid fight..
    Also extremely useful against melee builds especially thief and war or used after being CCd because its instant cast and you can stun them while being stunned to stop thier burst follow up.

    My opinion on unblockables is that it should penetrate block skills but not reflect skills... Or just remove reflect skills because whats the point to them at this stage.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • L A T I O N.8923L A T I O N.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    @James.1065 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Unblockables are a bad idea any way while guard uses blocks as active defense. I have no idea why active defense need a counter. That’s like make a attack which ignores dodges

    Just play reaper for a few months to learn how to play with no active defences at all, and you'll play your guard without ever needing a block ever again!

    You mean 2 healthpools?

  • bluberblasen.9684bluberblasen.9684 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2019

    delete :) please

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Unblockables are a bad idea any way while guard uses blocks as active defense. I have no idea why active defense need a counter. That’s like make a attack which ignores dodges

    Line of Warding. Shocking aura.

    Not sure what shocking aura does but line of warding as well sanctuary are hardly called attacks

    Shocking Aura stuns any attacker that touches it.

    Being DD Tempest for PvP its rather handy to upload 12s of that Aura to allies for the first mid fight..
    Also extremely useful against melee builds especially thief and war or used after being CCd because its instant cast and you can stun them while being stunned to stop thier burst follow up.

    My opinion on unblockables is that it should penetrate block skills but not reflect skills... Or just remove reflect skills because whats the point to them at this stage.

    I agree stun is to much when it’s not extremely visual telegraphed

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭

    It's not just ranger. Unblockable is a horrible part of the balance arms race which is killing PvP. Unblockable was fine in limited quantities when it was purely for interrupts or had obvious setup. But when you can do 10k+ burst with unblockable with almost no tell or warning, it's gone too far.

  • Crystal Paladin.3871Crystal Paladin.3871 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2019

    All condi dmg are unblockable... So... Should we nerf all condi professions along with it.... No ... Coz survival mechanism for condi is either condi cleanse or staying away from red circles.... Same thing here... Dodge, Los, invul, evade spams, dmg reduction traits and skills, infuse light and similar stuff

    Condi classes can do 10k burst too.... Condi has other effects in addition to damage

  • Mordayn.6198Mordayn.6198 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2019

    Condi has a counter on all classes though, it's called cleanse and conversion. The issue with Unblockable being able to bypass projectile destruction is that classes that don't have reflect as a counter to it have projectile destruction which is now useless because soulbeast has way too much uptime on unblockable. I've heard that argument before, you can't outdodge the amount of uptime that soulbeast has unblockable. Plain and simple soulbeast has way too much burst on way too low cooldown for unblockable. It is the most unbalanced thing in the game right now and making spvp suffer for it.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 4, 2019

    Unblockable spam is a bit ridic tbh. Every class should at most have 1 unblockable utility and 1 unblockable weapon skill.

    Unblockable on skills, autoattacks and even traits is too strong.

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • Airdive.2613Airdive.2613 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Unblockables are a bad idea any way while guard uses blocks as active defense. I have no idea why active defense need a counter. That’s like make a attack which ignores dodges

    Ironically, it's guardian's pulls (greatsword 5, dragonhunter F1) that go through dodges if you landed the initial hit.

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2019

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @James.1065 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Unblockables are a bad idea any way while guard uses blocks as active defense. I have no idea why active defense need a counter. That’s like make a attack which ignores dodges

    Just play reaper for a few months to learn how to play with no active defences at all, and you'll play your guard without ever needing a block ever again!

    You mean 2 healthpools?

    2 health pools (especaily when 1 of them is only 66% of your actual health and is depleting naturally at 5%per second) can't be compared to skills that mitigate 100% damage for x amount of time.

    For example: I am focused on my reaper by 3 enemies that stun lock me. I pop my shroud and get burnt down and killed in less than 3 seconds.

    Warrior, gaurd, mesmer, thief, ranger (any other class with an active block or invunerbility) in same situation will pop that skill and take zero damage for x amount of time and have their full health when the skill expires.

    How is having "2 health bars" even in the same discussion as active defenses like blocks and invun with the level of power creep we have in the game!?

  • L A T I O N.8923L A T I O N.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    @James.1065 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @James.1065 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Unblockables are a bad idea any way while guard uses blocks as active defense. I have no idea why active defense need a counter. That’s like make a attack which ignores dodges

    Just play reaper for a few months to learn how to play with no active defences at all, and you'll play your guard without ever needing a block ever again!

    You mean 2 healthpools?

    2 health pools (especaily when 1 of them is only 66% of your actual health and is depleting naturally at 5%per second) can't be compared to skills that mitigate 100% damage for x amount of time.

    For example: I am focused on my reaper by 3 enemies that stun lock me. I pop my shroud and get burnt down and killed in less than 3 seconds.

    Warrior, gaurd, mesmer, thief, ranger (any other class with an active block or invunerbility) in same situation will pop that skill and take zero damage for x amount of time and have their full health when the skill expires.

    How is having "2 health bars" even in the same discussion as active defenses like blocks and invun!?

    Sorry man, basicly you have thrice the health then a guard with those 2 healthpools
    The fact the 'just 2/3' is approx the same as guard healthpool (when traited) shows enough...i mean the axeburst, Reaper auto, Reaper five and focus 5 do enough damage to kill a mer guard in less then 4 attacks...it's not vice versa. Reaper build to cleave hard and be risky otherwise you dont cleave

    Secondly a 'active' defense is sort of balanced that way...dont you have a shout that makes your attacks unblockable? Dont you have a trait to make your Marks unblockable? Dont you have skills who are unblockable by default?

    Guard litterally has no active defense you cant cut through while the guard bursts you. And this counts for every class VS the guard....my experience as a guard

    Yes Reaper has strong points and weak points...my experience if i fight reapers in whatever guard build i play ..i need to time immob perfectly and cc at the right time or im dead, since 3 auto's on Reaper form is enough to kill me

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @James.1065 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @James.1065 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    Unblockables are a bad idea any way while guard uses blocks as active defense. I have no idea why active defense need a counter. That’s like make a attack which ignores dodges

    Just play reaper for a few months to learn how to play with no active defences at all, and you'll play your guard without ever needing a block ever again!

    You mean 2 healthpools?

    2 health pools (especaily when 1 of them is only 66% of your actual health and is depleting naturally at 5%per second) can't be compared to skills that mitigate 100% damage for x amount of time.

    For example: I am focused on my reaper by 3 enemies that stun lock me. I pop my shroud and get burnt down and killed in less than 3 seconds.

    Warrior, gaurd, mesmer, thief, ranger (any other class with an active block or invunerbility) in same situation will pop that skill and take zero damage for x amount of time and have their full health when the skill expires.

    How is having "2 health bars" even in the same discussion as active defenses like blocks and invun with the level of power creep we have in the game!?

    Damage done to shroud is reduced by 50% also.

    // Yanim

  • FtoPScrub.5476FtoPScrub.5476 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2019

    Its cause they are scared some meme guard is going to run all those projectile block skills and make ranger useless. They don't even realize those skills are trash even without unblockables and that no guard is ever going to run them without a significant meta change.

  • rdigeri.7935rdigeri.7935 Member ✭✭✭

    What if Unstoppable Union was limited to melee range? Soulbeast is a melee spec after all.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Here's an idea, make unstoppable union a stunbreak only.

    No unblockable.

    Then start going through all the other PoF and HoT traits that do 2 really strong things and pick 1 of them and remove the other.

    Then maybe people would start enjoying the game again.

    Maybe add the unblockable onto something else, I wonder if ranger has any skills that are terrible....

  • Vague Memory.2817Vague Memory.2817 Member ✭✭✭

    I think unblockables are were the rot first set in PvP. It was where they primarily deviated from their early philosophy of counterplay. Counterplay now means stacking vigor for dodges, because quite a few unblockables are pretty hard hitting.

  • @Mordayn.6198 said:
    Ok, it's time anet takes a look at one of the worst balanced abilities in the game. Soulbeast https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unstoppable_Union is a minor trait that gives them a 4s unblockable on a 10s cd if they go into beastmode then drop it. The issue is that unblockable doesn't only work on blocks, it also bypasses projectile destruction. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable . This ability has no counter play other than dodge but good luck trying to dodge against a 4s 10s cd unblockable proc. Honestly what they should do is tie unblockable to only bypass block mechanics and allow projectile reflect and destruction to be a viable counter to it. This would keep the trait viable as it would still be able to get through blocks but wouldn't be a god tier proc like it is now. They'd still have an extremely low cd proc of it for melee attacks and range if the target doesn't have projectile reflect or destruction. In it's current state though, it bypasses dynamic defensive gameplay of too many skills and is way too powerful. Some classes don't have access to reflect so they are just getting eaten up by Soulbeast unblockable burst and it's not healthy for the game.

    This is another example of ANet building power creep on top of core mechanics to make them irrelevant.

    Blocks are made irrelevant because of the amount of unblockables they added to the game.
    CC is made irrelevant because of the amount of stability they added to the game.
    Stealth is made irrelevant because of the amount of reveal they added to the game.

    These were once core elements of PvP that made combat interesting. When you take away their effectiveness, combat is reduced to repeatedly spamming your buttons on a rotation with no thought or effort.

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