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Lincolnbeard.1735

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:Yes, thief can perma evade, dd, sw/p, vault. If you can't perhaps you should learn to play your profession before qqing.Yeah, you come to mesmer forums but not to do what you say you come here over and over to derail threads into oh poor me and poor thieves.

Secondly l2read, what part of fencers finesse is trash when compared to all those both thief and war traits, oh and apart from staff did any trait received an update? You just qq for the sake of qq.

Get a psychologist to heal that victim complex.

no we cant perma evade, DD is kitten weapon set nerfed to the ground its fun to troll on but thats it.sword/pistol i mean really? another troll weapon set?Used by faeleth in monthly AT. Troll weapon set . Get on his levelvault, yes more or less maybe in small scale fight but in a blob ur "non evade frame" will soak up tons of conditions/dmg ull die pretty quick if not in group withi prefer a invul and evades from mirage and whoever said this is about core mirage, then dont pull daredevil into this and go nag about core thief, which is pretty much only thief build left to play in PvP/WvWThread not even about cmirage its about core traits and unfairness and bias, in stupid attempt to nerf mirage, obviously to make core mesmer even more garbage than it is and nerf as much builds as possible at once.btw on serious note why would u mesmers want more power?u can 100 > 0 most classes in 1 rotationI can slot core/DRD/DEADEYE for oneshot on the same classes mesmer can oneshot as you say but problem is ALL of they are unviable just as the mesmeru have nice bunker buildsDestroyed with scepter nerf. Look at mAT. Scrappers everywhere,not even soulbeasts. The only 1 chrono was brought by frenchies that cant play anything else apparently.u have nice hybrid buildsWhat hybrid builds? Have you seen scepter nerfs? Have you seen axe nerfs as 67% damage? What nice about it ?see i dont play mesmer main i just play ones in a blue moon, but i think mesmer doesnt need a "big" change it might need some very little tweaks here and there but for sure doesnt need more power.You dont play mesmer but think its fine ? Every single nerf on core was either unjustified or over kill.@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048"I really dont understand, its hard to nerf overperforming skill by 10-25% and see if its need more? Waiting for months and then suddenly nuke it from orbit with 50-67% is fine? Why every nerf on mesmer is 50% or more ?Portal duration 50% duration nerf. Scepter damage 50% nerf. In the past Warlock on staff had 50% damage nerf despite not doing any significant damage. Chrono shield 50% damage nerf. Cry of pain 50% of confusions were deleted. Blind shatter trait basically was deleted with reflect on evade. Axe ambush is 67% damage nerf...IA 75% cd increase. Ineptitude nerfed by 60% in duration.Must be a magic number.

Holo Leap history (Originally it would crit for 7k on a 2 second cooldown [Yes, 2 second cooldown] in Photon Forge after might stacking with Corona Burst)

August 28, 2018

The damage of this skill has been
reduced by 17% in PvP only
.

March 27, 2018

Reduced damage by 17% in PvP only
.

November 07, 2017The swiftness or superspeed applied by this skill is now applied at the end of the leap rather than at the start.

September 22, 2017 Path of Fire release:Holo Leap has been added to the game.

It's so weird how Arenanet is very moderate with their nerfs when it comes to Engineer. Multiple patches in a row where it's been left completely untouched outside of buffs to scrapper and core.

Not really that weird. When Anet balances engineer (and pretty much every class other than mesmer/thief), they actually take the time to think about why something is overperforming, and go after the root issue, usually. With mesmer and thief, they never do that, and just randomly nerf shit. Which means core issues that make some builds OP are never truly addressed, and inevitably something gets nerfed into oblivion when it lands in their warpath to "balance" these 2 classes.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:i'd say mes is finally not op anymore after many years of this being the case. perma prot from chaos is a little much but not too bad.

welcome to what most every other class has experienced. sucks eh, being average?

It's not so much mesmer got nerfed, Scepter 3 clearly did too much power damage and barely any condition damage despite being a ranged condition weapon kit and needed to be reweighted. Evasive Mirror was just poorly designed and too passive of an ability. Those needed to change. The problem is that Chronobunk and Condimirage are just one part of a wider meta of classes that are all clearly over performing.

Holo somehow escape literally any nerfs two full patches in a row. Scrapper remains unkillable by all but three or so builds. Sic Em and Unstoppable Union untouched despite being one of the most toxic interactions in the game at this point. Spellbreakers are still outrunning Sonic the Hedgehog and spin attacking for way more damage. Revs are still revving it up.

Spellbreaker, holosmith, scrapper, soulbeast, and rev currently dominate ranked. They are omnipresent in all games. And all of them are problematic in very clear ways and need adjustments. Literally none of the meta builds received any nerfs except Chronobunk and Condi Mirage, and Condi Mirage was officially out of the meta with the march balance patch.

Everyone knows Sic Em Soulbeast does far too much damage and has too much access and too easy access to unblockable. Everyone knows Holosmith is no where near as high risk to play as it needs to be considering the top tier damage it gets out of Photon Forge. Everyone knows that it's weird that Spellbreaker, an elite specialization focused on counter attacking and removing your enemy's strengths like their boons, condition output, stealth, and projectiles, to be lobbing out 8k Whirlwind Blade and Arcing Slice crits and two-shotting people in Rampage is as well as blitzing across the map faster than any build aside from Thief. Everyone knows that it's not ideal for Revenant's best build, Glint+Shiro Herald, to be absolutely terrible in condition metas and straight up godly when it's a power meta. Literally no one likes fighting Scrappers.

All of these are omnipresent aspects of the meta. All of them deserve nerfs in some form. None of them received any nerfs. Everyone expected the Scepter and Evasive Mirror changes. But it is genuinely shocking nothing else meta in conquest was even touched.

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Now that mesmers are no longer a problem, can soulbeasts, holosmiths and scrappers have the same treatments?

I don't really have a problem with any other class tbh.

Got to be a bit more honest here; I agree that mesmers got a bit too much nerfed. I can experience this sometimes as I play a chrono.

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@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:I will say im glad not to see 20+ threads created saying mes is OP lol

Most of them admit they need to l2p

It was never about Mesmer being OP.

It was always about the fact that nobody likes to fight Mesmer.

Its simply fact that for the majority of the playerbase, the game would be more enjoyable if mesmer didnt exist.

Mesmer is AntiFun by design.

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:I will say im glad not to see 20+ threads created saying mes is OP lol

Most of them admit they need to l2p

It was never about Mesmer being OP.

It was always about the fact that nobody likes to fight Mesmer.

Its simply fact that for the majority of the playerbase, the game would be more enjoyable if mesmer didnt exist.

Mesmer is AntiFun by design.

welp my opinion is biased as I main one in WvW, however there are classes that no matter what class I was on I didnt like them. Some people just need to vent i guess

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@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:I will say im glad not to see 20+ threads created saying mes is OP lol

Most of them admit they need to l2p

It was never about Mesmer being OP.

It was always about the fact that nobody likes to fight Mesmer.

Its simply fact that for the majority of the playerbase, the game would be more enjoyable if mesmer didnt exist.

Mesmer is AntiFun by design.

welp my opinion is biased as I main one in WvW, however there are classes that no matter what class I was on I didnt like them. Some people just need to vent i guess

The endless cries for nerfs are just a way for people to try to reduce the number of mesmers they have to fight.

It doesnt matter how much it get nerfed.

As long a single mesmer plays the game, the PLS nerf rollercoaster will not stop.

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:I will say im glad not to see 20+ threads created saying mes is OP lol

Most of them admit they need to l2p

It was never about Mesmer being OP.

It was always about the fact that nobody likes to fight Mesmer.

Its simply fact that for the majority of the playerbase, the game would be more enjoyable if mesmer didnt exist.

Mesmer is AntiFun by design.

welp my opinion is biased as I main one in WvW, however there are classes that no matter what class I was on I didnt like them. Some people just need to vent i guess

The endless cries for nerfs are just a way for people to try to reduce the number of mesmers they have to fight.

It doesnt matter how much it get nerfed.

As long a single mesmer plays the game, the PLS nerf rollercoaster will not stop.

As sad at it is, I believe that to be true. Heck I dont even play 1 shot burst or condi lol

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@DanAlcedo.3281 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:I will say im glad not to see 20+ threads created saying mes is OP lol

Most of them admit they need to l2p

It was never about Mesmer being OP.

It was always about the fact that nobody likes to fight Mesmer.

Its simply fact that for the majority of the playerbase, the game would be more enjoyable if mesmer didnt exist.

Mesmer is AntiFun by design.

welp my opinion is biased as I main one in WvW, however there are classes that no matter what class I was on I didnt like them. Some people just need to vent i guess

The endless cries for nerfs are just a way for people to try to reduce the number of mesmers they have to fight.

I think they've been pretty successful. From what I've seen, there's been a noticeable drop in Mesmers in sPvP since the March 5th update, and there are even fewer since the last update. They're certainly still around, both in sPvP and WvW, but no more common than most other classes. Meanwhile there are a few classes that are very common at the moment. To speculate, I think usage and performance stats for the current season will reflect this.

It doesnt matter how much it get nerfed.

As long a single mesmer plays the game, the PLS nerf rollercoaster will not stop.

Actually, besides you (meme-ing) and a certain ranger whose name starts with a "B" (who probably fits what you said), I haven't really seen much complaining in this forum since before the March update over two months ago. It really isn't exaggerating to say that Anet essentially deleted condi-mirage from the meta with the March update, and deleted the remaining builds in the last update (with scepter nerf). All that's left are power-one shot (a competitively unviable meme/troll build) and maybe power-shatter? Nothing that isn't lackluster compared to the still massively powercrept meta specs that still remain largely untouched but somehow less "unfun" to fight?

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@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:I will say im glad not to see 20+ threads created saying mes is OP lol

Most of them admit they need to l2p

It was never about Mesmer being OP.

It was always about the fact that nobody likes to fight Mesmer.

Its simply fact that for the majority of the playerbase, the game would be more enjoyable if mesmer didnt exist.

Mesmer is AntiFun by design.

welp my opinion is biased as I main one in WvW, however there are classes that no matter what class I was on I didnt like them. Some people just need to vent i guess

The endless cries for nerfs are just a way for people to try to reduce the number of mesmers they have to fight.

I think they've been pretty successful. From what I've seen, there's been a noticeable drop in Mesmers in sPvP since the March 5th update, and there are even fewer since the last update. They're certainly still around, both in sPvP and WvW, but no more common than most other classes. Meanwhile there are a few classes that are very common at the moment. To speculate, I think usage and performance stats for the current season will reflect this.

It doesnt matter how much it get nerfed.

As long a single mesmer plays the game, the PLS nerf rollercoaster will not stop.

Actually, besides you (meme-ing) and a certain ranger whose name starts with a "B" (who probably fits what you said), I haven't really seen much complaining in this forum since before the March update over two months ago. It really isn't exaggerating to say that Anet essentially deleted condi-mirage from the meta with the March update, and deleted the remaining builds in the last update (with scepter nerf). All that's left are power-one shot (a competitively unviable meme/troll build) and maybe power-shatter? Nothing that isn't lackluster compared to the still massively powercrept meta specs that still remain largely untouched but somehow less "unfun" to fight?

Wooo yeah power shatter

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Blinding Dissipation: On Cry of Frustration (profession mechanic), Major Master, 25 sec cool down, 3 sec blindhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Dissipation

Go for the Eyes: On Beast abilities instead of a shatter (profession mechanic), Major Adept (a lower category than Major Master), 12 sec cool down, 5 sec blindhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Go_for_the_Eyes

Justice is Blind: On Virtue of Justice (profession mechanic), Minor Adept (a lower category + get it for free just for using the trait line), 20 sec cool down, 3 sec blind, additionally get 4 sec of Light Aura (when struck you gain retaliation and condition damage is reduced by 10%).https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Justice_is_Blind

Nothing to see here folks. A bias can't exist since they are professionals . . . . right?

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@"Xstein.2187" said:Blinding Dissipation: On Cry of Frustration (profession mechanic), Major Master, 25 sec cool down, 3 sec blindhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Dissipation

Go for the Eyes: On Beast abilities instead of a shatter (profession mechanic), Major Adept (a lower category than Major Master), 12 sec cool down, 5 sec blindhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Go_for_the_Eyes

Justice is Blind: On Virtue of Justice (profession mechanic), Minor Adept (a lower category + get it for free just for using the trait line), 20 sec cool down, 3 sec blind, additionally get 4 sec of Light Aura (when struck you gain retaliation and condition damage is reduced by 10%).https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Justice_is_Blind

Nothing to see here folks. A bias can't exist since they are professionals . . . . right?

dang, Mesmer got shafted with that then

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@"Xstein.2187" said:Blinding Dissipation: On Cry of Frustration (profession mechanic), Major Master, 25 sec cool down, 3 sec blindhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Dissipation

Go for the Eyes: On Beast abilities instead of a shatter (profession mechanic), Major Adept (a lower category than Major Master), 12 sec cool down, 5 sec blindhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Go_for_the_Eyes

Justice is Blind: On Virtue of Justice (profession mechanic), Minor Adept (a lower category + get it for free just for using the trait line), 20 sec cool down, 3 sec blind, additionally get 4 sec of Light Aura (when struck you gain retaliation and condition damage is reduced by 10%).https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Justice_is_Blind

Nothing to see here folks. A bias can't exist since they are professionals . . . . right?

That's what this thread is about, keep'em coming.Thank you. Will edit the op later with that.

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@"Xstein.2187" said:Blinding Dissipation: On Cry of Frustration (profession mechanic), Major Master, 25 sec cool down, 3 sec blindhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Dissipation

I am not sure the comparison is fair. Blinding Dissipation procs on shatter f2, but I am not sure on how the shatter regarding shattering your clones and the fact that the shatter effect also occurs at your location interacts. You might be able to blind a lot more targets than just the 5 nearby your own location.I still would say the effect is kind of weak, since you have only somewhat limited effect on where and how shatters of your clones occur.

That is generally a thing to keep in mind: If you have ever tried using your clones for effect in larger-scale battles, you'll probably have noticed, that it doesn't exactly work so well. They are usually gone before you can effectively do anything useful with them, and even if not: Good luck telling where they currently are.

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PvP community always call for nerfs, it's natural, nobody like to lose a duel. The exemples are fine but let's look at the context:

Weapon traits: ANet aim to get rid or lessen the impact of the weapon traits on the long run, yet for some of the mesmer's weapon traits this could end up in huge loss like:

  • Imagined burden losing it's extra fantasm on GS.
  • Duellist's discipline would lose it's bleed.
  • Warden's feedback would lose it's reflect.
  • Malicious sorcery would lose it's increased attack speed.

It sucks that the mesmers weapon traits are overly specialized into a single weapon but objectively the moment they give them the same treatment than other profession's weapon trait it will feel like a heavy nerf for everyone using those traits.

Prot on "dodge": The lower duration on mirage cloack ending is most likely due to:

  • The fact that mirage cloack last longer than a common dodge frame
  • You have other means to gain mirage cloack than just dodging.

Which even individually are enough reason to justify a reduced prot uptime.

Vigor: Unless you are playing a whole another game you got:

  • Baseline vigor on shatter when sloting the mirage traitline.
  • You can trait in chaos for moar vigor on shatter (cry of frustration).
  • Some weapon/utility skills grant vigor.

That's already more than a lot of professions.

Blind:

  • Beasts abilities have a minimum CD of 20s thought. And goes up to 40s.
  • Guardians actually sacrifice a passive effect for using their virtue. You could say that they give up some dps for 20s by using virtue of justice while you don't give up anything by using cry of frustration.

This another way of looking at things instead of focalising on metrics. Beside I've always thought that guardian was the blessed child, mesmer is just the "artist" of the family.

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@"Dadnir.5038" said:PvP community always call for nerfs, it's natural, nobody like to lose a duel. The exemples are fine but let's look at the context:

Weapon traits: ANet aim to get rid or lessen the impact of the weapon traits on the long run, yet for some of the mesmer's weapon traits this could end up in huge loss like:

  • Imagined burden losing it's extra fantasm on GS.
  • Duellist's discipline would lose it's bleed.
  • Warden's feedback would lose it's reflect.
  • Malicious sorcery would lose it's increased attack speed.

It sucks that the mesmers weapon traits are overly specialized into a single weapon but objectively the moment they give them the same treatment than other profession's weapon trait it will feel like a heavy nerf for everyone using those traits.

Prot on "dodge": The lower duration on mirage cloack ending is most likely due to:

  • The fact that mirage cloack last longer than a common dodge frame
  • You have other means to gain mirage cloack than just dodging.

Which even individually are enough reason to justify a reduced prot uptime.

Vigor: Unless you are playing a whole another game you got:

  • Baseline vigor on shatter when sloting the mirage traitline.
  • You can trait in chaos for moar vigor on shatter (cry of frustration).
  • Some weapon/utility skills grant vigor.

That's already more than a lot of professions.

Blind:

  • Beasts abilities have a minimum CD of 20s thought. And goes up to 40s.
  • Guardians actually sacrifice a passive effect for using their virtue. You could say that they give up some dps for 20s by using virtue of justice while you don't give up anything by using cry of frustration.

This another way of looking at things instead of focalising on metrics. Beside I've always thought that guardian was the blessed child, mesmer is just the "artist" of the family.

Using chaos or inspiration traitlines are HUGE damage loss by the way, which usually leads to us not being able to kill many of the other professions while they can be threat to us.As for Cry of frustration, we actually lose the illusions .... mostly we generate enough clones due to grandmaster trait which is now the only thing that seems to be worthy in that whole traitline now. remove that trait and we wouldn't even be able to generate enough clones to shatter something and then use a distortion that saves our butts from random aoe attacks let alone being focused for real.

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@"Dadnir.5038" said:PvP community always call for nerfs, it's natural, nobody like to lose a duel. The exemples are fine but let's look at the context:

Weapon traits: ANet aim to get rid or lessen the impact of the weapon traits on the long run, yet for some of the mesmer's weapon traits this could end up in huge loss like:

  • Imagined burden losing it's extra fantasm on GS.
  • Duellist's discipline would lose it's bleed.
  • Warden's feedback would lose it's reflect.
  • Malicious sorcery would lose it's increased attack speed.

It sucks that the mesmers weapon traits are overly specialized into a single weapon but objectively the moment they give them the same treatment than other profession's weapon trait it will feel like a heavy nerf for everyone using those traits.

If imagined burden turns into 240 power when gs is equiped + some effect, is not that bad (if moved to major master)Same with the others.

Prot on "dodge": The lower duration on mirage cloack ending is most likely due to:

  • The fact that mirage cloack last longer than a common dodge frame
  • You have other means to gain mirage cloack than just dodging.

Which even individually are enough reason to justify a reduced prot uptime.

MC lasts the same time that a normal dodge does.The only other means are traited distortion and utilities (which are not even good anymore).

Vigor: Unless you are playing a whole another game you got:

  • Baseline vigor on shatter when sloting the mirage traitline.
  • You can trait in chaos for moar vigor on shatter (cry of frustration).
  • Some weapon/utility skills grant vigor.

That's already more than a lot of professions.

No, nomad's endurance is trash, period. 1,5 sec each shatter is just mocking mesmers.Like Heart said by traiting chaos you lose a ton of damage.Mesmer is one of the professions with the least amount of vigor on game, particularly in mirage which needs dodge to both defend and attack is an insult to the whole mesmer community.

Blind:

  • Beasts abilities have a minimum CD of 20s thought. And goes up to 40s.
  • Guardians actually sacrifice a passive effect for using their virtue. You could say that they give up some dps for 20s by using virtue of justice while you don't give up anything by using cry of frustration.

This another way of looking at things instead of focalising on metrics. Beside I've always thought that guardian was the blessed child, mesmer is just the "artist" of the family.

For this one Heart already answered.

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@"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:For this one Heart already answered.

And all you 2 gave were poor excuses (like: "it's not good", "there is better options", "we would lose damage"... etc.) showing that you are unwilling to make some sacrifice. You want a build with perfect offense and perfect defense which is bad for the game as a whole. Come on "heart" even put an argument saying that he lose it's illusions when he use a shatter skill... I wonder if he understand how to play mesmer now. Illusions are designed to be consumable that you destroy for burst/utility, they are not meant to be kept until you kill your foe. It's like a warrior that would be unwilling to spend adrenaline or a necromancer unwilling to spend life force.

Rangers lose as much damage when they take wilderness survival than when mesmer take chaos. Warriors, necromancers and, yes, guardians beat hand down the mesmer when it came to have a shity vigor uptime tied to traits (or not for most of them) since it's what you look at. Mesmer is objectively in the high middle tier when it come to vigor uptime, not even close to be one of the profession with the least vigor uptime.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:Rangers lose as much damage when they take wilderness survival than when mesmer take chaos. Warriors, necromancers and, yes, guardians beat hand down the mesmer when it came to have a shity vigor uptime tied to traits (or not for most of them) since it's what you look at. Mesmer is objectively in the high middle tier when it come to vigor uptime, not even close to be one of the profession with the least vigor uptime.

While you're right that people tend to not be willing to give up stuff, I can't agree with your assessment on where Mesmers stand when it comes to Vigor and Endurance. Yes, they might have a moderate access (meaning: number of options) to Vigor but the return on investment is god aweful since Mirage got everything nerfed. The only class that has worse traits related to Vigor or Endurance is the Necromancer with maybe Revenant coming in second. While Guardians don't have great access, both Vigorous Precision on Tome of Resolve are miles better numberwise than what Mesmers have unless you stack your traits. Warriors don't generate much Vigor but they excel at gaining Endurance directly.

Neglecting that Mesmer is the only class with a balance split on-crit Vigor trait, it is still rather irratating that a class designed to be evasive has such an aweful time at keeping up their Endurance regeneration. Even more so considering there is an elite spec that caters that playstyle. It's pretty bad objectively.

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