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The Deadeye effect (season 2)


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@"FyzE.3472" said:Guess falling from that height must really hurt mesmer mains. They can't stop complaining.

But yeah, DE is easily outplayed. People just have to learn how to do so. Like in good old times when the GAME was dictating the rules and the PLAYERS only chance at getting good in that game was LEARNING and PRACTICING. And not demanding the devs to make it easy mode "for me exclusively"Coming from scrapper main,thats rich :joy:

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@praqtos.9035 said:

@"FyzE.3472" said:Guess falling from that height must really hurt mesmer mains. They can't stop complaining.

But yeah, DE is easily outplayed. People just have to learn how to do so. Like in good old times when the GAME was dictating the rules and the PLAYERS only chance at getting good in that game was LEARNING and PRACTICING. And not demanding the devs to make it easy mode "for me exclusively"Coming from scrapper main,thats rich :joy:

"Uh oh criticism. What ever can I do? I know! I will make up a false statement to discredit that person! Yeah that should work! Who need reason in an argument anyway?!"

Edit: you seem like a person who ignores any advice for the sake of complaining some more. That will not help you enjoy the game even a little more my man.

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@Dreddo.9865 said:I really appreciate the argument of get better but the point is how can I become better, like learn to avoid, counter, etc. ...against a class that comes out of stealth and one shots in less than one second?In this particular game at some point that DE killed me capping and a DD trying to bust him - both in some seconds. xDThis kind of 'interaction' is far from being named 'competitive PvP'.

+1

'Any good computer game must be totally fair. It must be possible for the player to reach the objective and win'

-Tim Barry

'An important trait of any game is the illusion of winnability. If a game is to provide a continuing challenge to players, it must also provide a continuing motivation to play. The game must appear to be winnable to all players, beginners and experts, but it must never truly be winnable or it will lose its appeal'

-Chris Crawford

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@FyzE.3472 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:Guess falling from that height must really hurt mesmer mains. They can't stop complaining.

But yeah, DE is easily outplayed. People just have to learn how to do so. Like in good old times when the GAME was dictating the rules and the PLAYERS only chance at getting good in that game was LEARNING and PRACTICING. And not demanding the devs to make it easy mode "for me exclusively"Coming from scrapper main,thats rich :joy:

"Uh oh criticism. What ever can I do? I know! I will make up a false statement to discredit that person! Yeah that should work! Who need reason in an argument anyway?!"

Edit: you seem like a person who ignores any advice for the sake of complaining some more. That will not help you enjoy the game even a little more my man.You are popping up at every thread that touches scrapper that is super annoying to play against and ppl for unknown reasons trying to 1x2 it for ages and still cant."help me with spellbarkers,the only matchup doesnt go well through facerolling" ,not so false statement
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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Dreddo.9865 said:I really appreciate the argument of get better but the point is how can I become better, like learn to avoid, counter, etc. ...against a class that
comes out of stealth and one shots
in less than one second?In this particular game at some point that DE killed me capping and a DD trying to bust him - both in some seconds. xDThis kind of 'interaction' is far from being named 'competitive PvP'.

+1

'Any good computer game must be totally fair. It must be possible for the player to reach the objective and win'

-Tim Barry

'An important trait of any game is the illusion of winnability. If a game is to provide a continuing challenge to players, it must also provide a continuing motivation to play. The game must appear to be winnable to all players, beginners and experts, but it must never truly be winnable or it will lose its appeal'

-Chris Crawford

Coming from some one pro mesmer no? Lol

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@praqtos.9035 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:Guess falling from that height must really hurt mesmer mains. They can't stop complaining.

But yeah, DE is easily outplayed. People just have to learn how to do so. Like in good old times when the GAME was dictating the rules and the PLAYERS only chance at getting good in that game was LEARNING and PRACTICING. And not demanding the devs to make it easy mode "for me exclusively"Coming from scrapper main,thats rich :joy:

"Uh oh criticism. What ever can I do? I know! I will make up a false statement to discredit that person! Yeah that should work! Who need reason in an argument anyway?!"

Edit: you seem like a person who ignores any advice for the sake of complaining some more. That will not help you enjoy the game even a little more my man.You are popping up at every thread that touches scrapper that is super annoying to play against and ppl for unknown reasons trying to 1x2 it for ages and still cant."help me with spellbarkers,the only matchup doesnt go well through facerolling" ,not so false statement

Oh sure. Probs for looking through my posts btw. If you see the date, you would see that it was ages ago. Also one question on engie forums does not mean that I main engie lol what makes you think that? You don't have to answer that question.

I main more than one profession that's why I say that people usually complain first, think later. Or not think and just go through someone's message history and find ANYTHING to discredit the person.

Also I'm trying to help people play vs scrapper and one of the points I make is "even if Scrapper gets nerfed again, it will take some time, right? Why not use that time to try and improve your play style vs them?" But no. Let's just make suggestions right away. Great job man. It will not help you enjoy your game btw.

Also notice that I went there and asked for help. Not made a post demanding Spellbreaker to be nerfed so that I alone can enjoy the game. See where I'm getting here? Or instead of the things I say, you will yet again attempt to discredit me instead of just listening and extracting even a little bit of value? Just so you know, neither of your choices makes any difference for me. But do for you. Jist because I enjoy the game how it is, and you don't.

Have a great day.

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@FyzE.3472 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

Apologies for my poor wording. My point was that DE has many flaws to play around even besides "LoS, invuln or run away" and if anyone still dies to a rifle DE even after all the nerfs, I would suggest to that player to create a DE himself and try to climb with it. Then that player would see all the flaws I meant and then be able to abuse DE into uselessness.But I think that will never happen. It's way easier to make a complain thread than to improve.

You're forgetting. It doesnt matter how effective it is or not. That's not how the Spvp subsection works. If the past year is any indication of the status quo here, it's all about how FUN something is to play against. Yes DE can have many holes and classes that hard counter it. But if it isnt fun to play against it needs to be nerfed to the ground.

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@Solori.6025 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

Apologies for my poor wording. My point was that DE has many flaws to play around even besides "LoS, invuln or run away" and if anyone still dies to a rifle DE even after all the nerfs, I would suggest to that player to create a DE himself and try to climb with it. Then that player would see all the flaws I meant and then be able to abuse DE into uselessness.But I think that will never happen. It's way easier to make a complain thread than to improve.

You're forgetting. It doesnt matter how effective it is or not. That's not how the Spvp subsection works. If the past year is any indication of the status quo here, it's all about how FUN something is to play against. Yes DE can have many holes and classes that hard counter it. But if it isnt fun to play against it needs to be nerfed to the ground.

I agree 100%Prob is it has been nerfed to the ground. Although dying to a DE is anoying at this point ifur dying alot to a DE it's a 100% l2p issue. Also what would OP expect the DE to do? It's not like I'd stand a chance in a fight lol that's not DE's nor the players fault that's on arenet for designing DE to be too weak in a fight and having to resort to said mechanics. This is problem with thief in general. At this point nerfing them more they may as well grey out the thief in select characters screen until it's fixed lol

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@Solori.6025 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

Apologies for my poor wording. My point was that DE has many flaws to play around even besides "LoS, invuln or run away" and if anyone still dies to a rifle DE even after all the nerfs, I would suggest to that player to create a DE himself and try to climb with it. Then that player would see all the flaws I meant and then be able to abuse DE into uselessness.But I think that will never happen. It's way easier to make a complain thread than to improve.

You're forgetting. It doesnt matter how effective it is or not. That's not how the Spvp subsection works. If the past year is any indication of the status quo here, it's all about how FUN something is to play against. Yes DE can have many holes and classes that hard counter it. But if it isnt fun to play against it needs to be nerfed to the ground.

That and if you can't just faceroll the keyboard and win, devs should also delete the profession people have trouble facerolling against.

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@FyzE.3472 said:Just so you know, neither of your choices males any difference for me. But do for you.What ....males....?Jist because I enjoy the game how it is, and you don't.How can I enjoy the game where scrapper doesnt die to two people and happily facetank everything ? Same goes for revenants that jump at you through time,space and walls from like 2000 range ? I dont enjoy this even for a second

That and if you can't just faceroll the keyboard and win, devs should also delete the profession people have trouble facerolling against.Thats remind me one class that recently was deleted :joy:

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@praqtos.9035 said:

@"FyzE.3472" said:Just so you know, neither of your choices males any difference for me. But do for you.What ....males....?Jist because I enjoy the game how it is, and you don't.How can I enjoy the game where scrapper doesnt die to two people and happily facetank everything ? Same goes for revenants that jump at you through time,space and walls from like 2000 range ? I dont enjoy this even for a second

That and if you can't just faceroll the keyboard and win, devs should also delete the profession people have trouble facerolling against.Thats remind me one class that recently was deleted :joy:

You really want everything chewed for you huh? I meant "makes" ofc. Since you could not figure it out, I'm on my phone. Also, is that the only thing you got out of everything I said?

You can enjoy the game if you READ what I said, not check my grammar. Also there are several advices you can find in this forum. If you WANT, you can try them out. If not - it's on you. Your enjoyment depends on it, not mine. I'm done.

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I like how it's Skirmisher's Shot and not Spotter's Shot, so we know he wasn't immobed and thus could dodge. But somehow didn't.

Also LOL 'it isn't fun, nerf it'. Well I don't find it FUN for a class I enjoy playing getting nerfed to the ground because someone gets hit by 5 skills in a row without doing anything (seriously, how? Were you afk?), please ban their forum account so I can continue to have FUN! Woo.

I'll gladly welcome some revamps to make DE more interactive on the opponent's side with more back and forth instead of all or nothing, but this whole 'my reaction speed is that of a dead person please nerf this' is utter garbage.

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@Dreddo.9865 said:I really appreciate the argument of get better but the point is how can I become better, like learn to avoid, counter, etc. ...against a class that comes out of stealth and one shots in less than one second?In this particular game at some point that DE killed me capping and a DD trying to bust him - both in some seconds. xDThis kind of 'interaction' is far from being named 'competitive PvP'.

But it doesn't. It did, but got 'reworked' (adjusted?) and now it doesn't. Go play it so you can understand what you're talking about.

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@Solori.6025 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

Apologies for my poor wording. My point was that DE has many flaws to play around even besides "LoS, invuln or run away" and if anyone still dies to a rifle DE even after all the nerfs, I would suggest to that player to create a DE himself and try to climb with it. Then that player would see all the flaws I meant and then be able to abuse DE into uselessness.But I think that will never happen. It's way easier to make a complain thread than to improve.

You're forgetting. It doesnt matter how effective it is or not. That's not how the Spvp subsection works. If the past year is any indication of the status quo here, it's all about how FUN something is to play against. Yes DE can have many holes and classes that hard counter it. But if it isnt fun to play against it needs to be nerfed to the ground.

Fun is subjective, but I doubt you'll find many non-deadeyes who think the way this class is setup is perfectly fine. The way GW2 handles stealth in general is pretty questionable, but on deadeye it's beyond broken. And I realize that this is how the class is designed to survive and that simply taking their stealth away would make them useless. But in my opinion, it's straight up broken and should be replaced. Hit-and-run stealth with no cooldown restrictions should simply not be a thing for any class ever.

Stealth gyro/mass invis. I'm fine with that kind of stealth. It's pretty lacking in counters, but that's just how GW2 handles stealth. It's the endless cycle of popping off a massive damage strike out of stealth, re-stealthing, and doing it again. Over and over. That has to go. Just my opinion.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

Apologies for my poor wording. My point was that DE has many flaws to play around even besides "LoS, invuln or run away" and if anyone still dies to a rifle DE even after all the nerfs, I would suggest to that player to create a DE himself and try to climb with it. Then that player would see all the flaws I meant and then be able to abuse DE into uselessness.But I think that will never happen. It's way easier to make a complain thread than to improve.

You're forgetting. It doesnt matter how effective it is or not. That's not how the Spvp subsection works. If the past year is any indication of the status quo here, it's all about how FUN something is to play against. Yes DE can have many holes and classes that hard counter it. But if it isnt fun to play against it needs to be nerfed to the ground.

Fun is subjective, but I doubt you'll find many non-deadeyes who think the way this class is setup is perfectly fine. The way GW2 handles stealth in general is pretty questionable, but on deadeye it's beyond broken. And I realize that this is how the class is designed to survive and that simply taking their stealth away would make them useless. But in my opinion, it's straight up broken and should be replaced. Hit-and-run stealth with no cooldown restrictions should simply not be a thing for any class ever.

Stealth gyro/mass invis. I'm fine with that kind of stealth. It's pretty lacking in counters, but that's just how GW2 handles stealth. It's the endless cycle of popping off a massive damage strike out of stealth, re-stealthing, and doing it again. Over and over. That has to go. Just my opinion.

Well, what would it be replaced with that can make DE sustain possible?

Currently without that type of stealth, DE is dead meat on contact.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"FyzE.3472" said:I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

Well you just listed a few counterplay options, what do you think the answer is?

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@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

Apologies for my poor wording. My point was that DE has many flaws to play around even besides "LoS, invuln or run away" and if anyone still dies to a rifle DE even after all the nerfs, I would suggest to that player to create a DE himself and try to climb with it. Then that player would see all the flaws I meant and then be able to abuse DE into uselessness.But I think that will never happen. It's way easier to make a complain thread than to improve.

You're forgetting. It doesnt matter how effective it is or not. That's not how the Spvp subsection works. If the past year is any indication of the status quo here, it's all about how FUN something is to play against. Yes DE can have many holes and classes that hard counter it. But if it isnt fun to play against it needs to be nerfed to the ground.

Fun is subjective, but I doubt you'll find many non-deadeyes who think the way this class is setup is perfectly fine. The way GW2 handles stealth in general is pretty questionable, but on deadeye it's beyond broken. And I realize that this is how the class is designed to survive and that simply taking their stealth away would make them useless. But in my opinion, it's straight up broken and should be replaced. Hit-and-run stealth with no cooldown restrictions should simply not be a thing for any class ever.

Stealth gyro/mass invis. I'm fine with that kind of stealth. It's pretty lacking in counters, but that's just how GW2 handles stealth. It's the endless cycle of popping off a massive damage strike out of stealth, re-stealthing, and doing it again. Over and over. That has to go. Just my opinion.

Well, what would it be replaced with that can make DE sustain possible?

Currently without that type of stealth, DE is dead meat on contact.

Renewing Gaze could use some love. The regen is garbage - give a 2k heal when the marked target gets below a certain health percentage (25%?) and that'd be a good start. Something like Adrenal health, except to help the thief finish the fight instead of sustain. Or take less damage from target(s) based on their health percentage.

Changing the first line of DE traits to defensive options would be another good one - they're all pretty bad/negligible. Blinds, cripple, aegis.

Then nerf disengage/engage power of sword 2 and shift it into other parts of the weapons - tighten the return range of sword 2 so it can still be functional, but is no longer easy to return to starting point if you get successfully kited.

Make dagger/pistol 5 bigger for some reliable blinds in a teamfight, give heartseeker SOMETHING because it's pretty much just used for the leap -> stealth (maybe barrier if it hits a target, grants more based on health percent of target). Dagger AA being something of a threat again would be nice - sustain through offensive pressure.

Give DE a grandmaster defensive trait instead of that mightshare. M7 is...utility-ish, BQoBK is offensive. A defensive trait with some group support shoved in would be nice.

Add some additional rewards to landing the last attack in a weapon's AA chain - endurance regen, a blind, etc.

Lastly, rework stealth traits so they reward staying in stealth for as small a duration as possible. The Shadow Arts GM trait Shadow's Rejuv is....terrible. It encourages the thief to stay in stealth for long periods of time to get the health and ini - change it to give a flat health and ini return that scales downward based on how long the thief stays in stealth.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"FyzE.3472" said:I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

Well you just listed a few counterplay options, what do you think the answer is?

There are any number of ways a spec can have sufficient sustain. I'm not saying get rid of stealth. It's the particular variety of stealth that DE utilizes that is problematic. I recognize that they are not a dominant spec at this point. The issue is that we have created a class that doesn't allow players to fight back. Deadeyes simply attack out of stealth and pop back into stealth before their opponents can do anything to harm them. Your version of counterplay allows players to survive or walk away, but how do you fight an enemy that never gives you more than a brief moment to attack them?

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@praqtos.9035 said:

@FyzE.3472 said:Just so you know, neither of your choices males any difference for me. But do for you.What ....males....?Jist because I enjoy the game how it is, and you don't.How can I enjoy the game where scrapper doesnt die to two people and happily facetank everything ? Same goes for revenants that jump at you through time,space and walls from like 2000 range ? I dont enjoy this even for a second

That and if you can't just faceroll the keyboard and win, devs should also delete the profession people have trouble facerolling against.Thats remind me one class that recently was deleted :joy:

Scrapper does not survive to everything and it cannot face tank. Once you hit plat and you play scrapper you will be demolished in seconds. Ranger, revs, power mes, warrior, reaper will wait till your cool downs r burnt and destroy you.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"FyzE.3472" said:I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

Well you just listed a few counterplay options, what do you think the answer is?

There are any number of ways a spec can have sufficient sustain. I'm not saying get rid of stealth. It's the particular variety of stealth that DE utilizes that is problematic. I recognize that they are not a dominant spec at this point. The issue is that we have created a class that doesn't allow players to fight back. Deadeyes simply attack out of stealth and pop back into stealth before their opponents can do anything to harm them. Your version of counterplay allows players to survive or walk away, but how do you fight an enemy that never gives you more than a brief moment to attack them?

What is this pop in and out of stealth you speak of? You realize slient scope is now 1 second. 1 second is basically a detarget. It can't stay in stealth long enough for you not to track it. You literally have to not look at your screen to think it's gone. Once u dodge it's burst. It's basically game over for deadeye.

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@"Dreddo.9865" said:The below damage occurs out of stealth and in milliseconds literally:

uVuLwdq.jpgThe deadeye then goes into stealth almost immediately, pew pew from afar and repeats after a bit of time. If he is threatened he can stealth and escape enemy focus. It's like infinite stealth and 'god mode' dps.Is this another 'legit balance feature' or something that slipped out of the team's notice?

Saying milliseconds and showing a log of 4 skirmisher shots is completely contradicting yourself! Also DJ is literally useless, you don't even have to dodge it now, just block/reflect/weaken/blind/LoS(or my favourite: sidestep it from max distance).

Deadeye either has "god mode dps"(which compared to what other classes can do is still average at best), or can choose to have the ability stealth and escape enemy focus, you absolutely cannot do both at once. Now if we're not talking about maintained pressure but burst, DE can still dish out some mean numbers, but the log you showed... this ain't it, chief!

Actually I cannot decide if this post is serious (in which case, this is an L2P issue on your part), or a troll post (in which case job well done).

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You would have hated prenerf deadeye, right after they made DJ unblockable.

No matter how nerfed something gets, people will still complain. The real problem is when after years, the classes remain unnerfed and powercrept to hell and back (holosmith).

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@Razor.6392 said:You would have hated prenerf deadeye, right after they made DJ unblockable.

NO MATTER HOW NERFED SOMETHING GETS PEOPLE WILL STILL COMPLAIN. The real problem is when after years, the classes remain unnerfed and powercrept to hell and back (holosmith).

It's because they can't understand the difference between when something is actually overpowered and when something is annoying.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"FyzE.3472" said:I swear, some guy on this forum once said "It seems like when ever someone gets killed by a DE, it feels like his game alt tabs and opens up on the game forum's PvP section with pre-typed name "OMG DE DAMAGE OP" or something"

Yeah it feels cheesy, but actually the stealth mechanic is the only form of defense DE has.DE was slaughtered already, the rest is on you. If you still die to it, it's on you.And if the big red circle on your head does not tell you that you're gonna get blown up in a few seconds so you should LoS, invuln, just run away, I'm not sure what can.

That sounds pretty much all around broken, doesn't it? Stealth at will with no restrictions or cooldowns is just plain stupid, particularly as the only defense a class has. And if the only way to survive against it is to "LoS, invuln, or run away", does that not also indicate a broken design?

Well you just listed a few counterplay options, what do you think the answer is?

There are any number of ways a spec can have sufficient sustain. I'm not saying get rid of stealth. It's the particular variety of stealth that DE utilizes that is problematic. I recognize that they are not a dominant spec at this point. The issue is that we have created a class that doesn't allow players to fight back. Deadeyes simply attack out of stealth and pop back into stealth before their opponents can do anything to harm them. Your version of counterplay allows players to survive or walk away, but how do you fight an enemy that never gives you more than a brief moment to attack them?

the fight against a deadeye as for most thief specs is a fight for a chance to 'counterplay', because if you are successfully able to attack them in any form you will likely win. if you want more interaction where your skills land on a deadeye, then the deadeye at first needs ways to handle those hits.there is alot of what professions should not be able to do in the forums, but rarely can someone make a picture of how a fight SHOULD look like. you have to see it from both sides, fighting against and as deadeye.DE first got forced to interact more (rework removed Unforgiving and forced attacks for timely malice buildup) and then was gutted in his tools to do so properly by removing the unblockables from rifle and reducing stealth duration from silent scope, wich reduces again the interaction a deadeye will go for, but he is kind of forced to interact because of the malice system. this overall leaves deadeye now in the worst spot he has ever been in.IMO going for more interaction wich they did with the rework was a good thing, playing deadeye got even more fun than it was before. the main mistake they made with the change was a frequent uninterruptable stealth. i really love the idea to use endurance for stealth as i think it improves interaction in 2 ways. it does cost defensive resources wich gives more room to attack the deadeye and it doesnt cost offensive resources wich will provide the deadeye with the option to play more aggressive, but the fact they tied that use of endurance for stealth on the dodgeroll i think was a mistake. it probably was the most obvious/easiest way to provide it, but i much more would have prefered a different profession skill with a cast time of 1/4 or 1/2(like old kneel stealth) that would do this conversion. then you would need to decide between dodge and stealth for your endurance. instead they first removed the unblockable option on rifle wich reduced interaction (i would prefer unblockable rifle 2 with a bit reduced damage and malice reset on blinded/blocked/reflected stealth attacks to improve interaction instead of reduce it) and then reduced the stealth duration per endurance wich also reduces interaction as you will now use more utilities/ini/weaponswap cooldowns for stealth while you still can frequently ENTER stealth uninterruptable.so do you want more interaction wich would include more tools for deadeye to actually interact or do you just want dead thieves? if you want more interaction, i would love to hear your ideas on what the deadeye should gain to deal with the ungoing spamm pretty much any class can throw at each other, because i personally am probably too biased as i did play deadeye too long, altho mine are all reduced to PvE gathertoons for a while now.

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