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Anet can we normalize soulbeast yet?


Brohan.6490

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411250257029234698/576647267017293825/unknown.png soulbeast has way too much oiutput/survivability , it feels like the last thing from pof that's still "uber strong" and needs to be normalized. Boonbeast or sic em sniper, it seems like anet hasn't noticed due to lack of attention to this spec in the last few balance patches.

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@"Brohan.6490" said:https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411250257029234698/576647267017293825/unknown.png soulbeast has way too much oiutput/survivability , it feels like the last thing from pof that's still "uber strong" and needs to be normalized. Boonbeast or sic em sniper, it seems like anet hasn't noticed due to lack of attention to this spec in the last few balance patches.

5yiO54U.png

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^You actually could just dodge that Charge>WI combo since Charge wont hard CC you and comes at you in a straight line.

If the Slb uses Marksmanship/BM/Slb and uses all of the offensive traits, then that would mean that if you get hit with Charge, they'll gain Fury, which triggers Opening Strike (+25% damage) and Twice as Vicious (+5%) and if the target's health % is lower, Oppressive Superiority (+10%) and as assumed, Sic'Em (+40%). I'm guessing that the only way you got Spiked that hard was because you not only didnt dodge the Charge or WI that followed, but also possibly got Interrupted by the former to give them Moment of Clarity, too. (+50%)

If you leave a glass build to do as it pleases, someone's going to get blown up sooner or later.

On another note, Boonbeast did get affected by a few changes in previous patches (fixing Winter's Bite to consume the Weakness effect if its dodged and said Weakness being only 4s of that vs its old 10s, much lower Immob/Cripple uptime on Lesser Muddy Terrain, the Plasma tweaks and Moa Stance getting a 15s CD increase) so it hasn't been wholly ignored.

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@"Brohan.6490" said:https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411250257029234698/576647267017293825/unknown.png soulbeast has way too much oiutput/survivability , it feels like the last thing from pof that's still "uber strong" and needs to be normalized. Boonbeast or sic em sniper, it seems like anet hasn't noticed due to lack of attention to this spec in the last few balance patches.

The build you died to is a glass cannon spec. You can kill it just as fast as it kills you.

With that being said, "one-shot" builds aren't fun to fight against so I would like Sic Em to be reworked. And, while bunker boonbeast isn't much of an issue anymore, it doesn't take much skill to play.

Lastly, it's worth mentioning that you were playing a necromancer in that screenshot. Rangers hard counter your class which might make them seem stronger than they actually are.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Brohan.6490" said:
soulbeast has way too much oiutput/survivability , it feels like the last thing from pof that's still "uber strong" and needs to be normalized. Boonbeast or sic em sniper, it seems like anet hasn't noticed due to lack of attention to this spec in the last few balance patches.

5yiO54U.png

lol

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27k? yawn! XDk1v3ZvT.gifthough to the folks saying "dodge it" i run my oneshot build with longbow for stealth and then from stealth hit with Takedown for the knockdownso you can't really dodge when you're getting knockeddown from stealth.the only viable counter really is stability and stunbreakers,but even without the damage multipliers from knockdown you're still getting hit with massive blows.i've stopped playing my soulbeast recently because it just felt too cheesy XD

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Brohan.6490" said:
soulbeast has way too much oiutput/survivability , it feels like the last thing from pof that's still "uber strong" and needs to be normalized. Boonbeast or sic em sniper, it seems like anet hasn't noticed due to lack of attention to this spec in the last few balance patches.

The build you died to is a glass cannon spec. You can kill it just as fast as it kills you.

With that being said, "one-shot" builds aren't fun to fight against so I
would
like Sic Em to be reworked. And, while bunker boonbeast isn't much of an issue anymore, it doesn't take much skill to play.

Lastly, it's worth mentioning that you were playing a necromancer in that screenshot. Rangers hard counter your class which might make them seem stronger than they actually are.

This is actually false, many factors like protection, signet of stone, stealth, evade frames gives sic'em soulbeast a lot of sustainibilty for the insane damage it can do. Also don't forget the absurd mobility they have so whenever they're in danger they can just leap out of it.

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@Snellibee.2761 said:

@"Brohan.6490" said:
soulbeast has way too much oiutput/survivability , it feels like the last thing from pof that's still "uber strong" and needs to be normalized. Boonbeast or sic em sniper, it seems like anet hasn't noticed due to lack of attention to this spec in the last few balance patches.

The build you died to is a glass cannon spec. You can kill it just as fast as it kills you.

With that being said, "one-shot" builds aren't fun to fight against so I
would
like Sic Em to be reworked. And, while bunker boonbeast isn't much of an issue anymore, it doesn't take much skill to play.

Lastly, it's worth mentioning that you were playing a necromancer in that screenshot. Rangers hard counter your class which might make them seem stronger than they actually are.

This is actually false, many factors like protection, signet of stone, stealth, evade frames gives sic'em soulbeast a lot of sustainibilty for the insane damage it can do. Also don't forget the absurd mobility they have so whenever they're in danger they can just leap out of it.

Nope, it's true.

The most popular one-shot soulbeast build doesn't use:

  1. Wilderness Survival for protection on dodge
  2. Signet of Stone
  3. Longbow for the stealth
  4. Extra evades through utility/weapon skills outside of gs autos and Swoop

Not to mention the build uses it's stealth for engaging, not escaping. So, if you dodge the gimmicky combo, there's a period of 16 seconds where they are unable to stealth again. Also, if the ranger misses the Worldly Impact, the rest of the combo revolves around landing Takedown into Maul. Thus, the ranger doesn't have the mobility from Gazelle/Snow Owl's leap in Beastmode. Furthermore, this combo is only decently reliable if the ranger stealths from out of your line of sight (generally 1200+ range away). This means that they only have 3 seconds (without using Swoop) to close that distance. Since that's impossible unless you were running in their direction, they will be required to use Swoop through Smoke Cloud to get into melee range while still in stealth.

In other words, the one-shot soulbeast build doesn't have protection, signet of stone, stealth, or any additional mobility after the combo. For evades, they only have the two base dodges everyone has access to + a one-second windup time on the autos for the evade on Power Stab. If they decide to use sword instead of MH axe and didn't use Hornet's Sting + Monarch's Leap for additional stealth to engage, they'll have another (easily interruptible) leap on S2 and an extra 3/4 second evade on S3.

Trust me when I say that these builds are completely trash. I've been killed twice by this combo in the past two years since PoF came out. And, those deaths only occurred because:

  1. I didn't know they were running one-shot builds at the start of the match.
  2. They stealthed from off-screen so I didn't know they were coming.
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Hello all, I'm the person from the screenshot and I talked to the guy about his build. As shadowpass said, his build cares zero about survivability and he relies 100% on his combo.Both of shadowpass' arguments happened: i didnt know he was running a one shot build and he came from stealth. I was sitting at the point full health (25k) and then i was dead.

The point that brohan is trying to make is: should a build that deletes you in a single hit be out there doing it?It may be "easy" to counter when you know exactly when the damage is gonna hit but it is definitely not fun getting destroyed by it without having the possibility to react since they can start their combo from stealth.

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@"Apica.1964" said:Hello all, I'm the person from the screenshot and I talked to the guy about his build. As shadowpass said, his build cares zero about survivability and he relies 100% on his combo.Both of shadowpass' arguments happened: i didnt know he was running a one shot build and he came from stealth. I was sitting at the point full health (25k) and then i was dead.

The point that brohan is trying to make is: should a build that deletes you in a single hit be out there doing it?It may be "easy" to counter when you know exactly when the damage is gonna hit but it is definitely not fun getting destroyed by it without having the possibility to react since they can start their combo from stealth.

Yeah I dislike one-shot builds like this one and I hope they get removed from the game due to how little skill they require to play. However, these builds are extremely gimmicky and once you learn how to avoid them, they shouldn't give you any more trouble.

My previous post was just my attempt to educate people on how the build works/how to counter it.

Simply walking away from the one-shot soulbeast after you see him enter stealth will cause the entire combo to fail because the stealth will end before he can get to you. Then, you can see the attack coming and dodge it.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Brohan.6490" said:
soulbeast has way too much oiutput/survivability , it feels like the last thing from pof that's still "uber strong" and needs to be normalized. Boonbeast or sic em sniper, it seems like anet hasn't noticed due to lack of attention to this spec in the last few balance patches.

The build you died to is a glass cannon spec. You can kill it just as fast as it kills you.

With that being said, "one-shot" builds aren't fun to fight against so I
would
like Sic Em to be reworked. And, while bunker boonbeast isn't much of an issue anymore, it doesn't take much skill to play.

Lastly, it's worth mentioning that you were playing a necromancer in that screenshot. Rangers hard counter your class which might make them seem stronger than they actually are.

Killing a soulbeast is never a "lol just 1 shot him" kind of deal like it could happen to a necro, thief or elementalist, where they actually and helplessly can explode within 1 second.

Signet of stone and built in survivability + stealth / gs block means that it will at least take some additional effort to down him, time in which he can turn the situation around.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Brohan.6490" said:
soulbeast has way too much oiutput/survivability , it feels like the last thing from pof that's still "uber strong" and needs to be normalized. Boonbeast or sic em sniper, it seems like anet hasn't noticed due to lack of attention to this spec in the last few balance patches.

5yiO54U.png

HAHA

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I don't actually mind ranger damage, it's their survivability and passive damage that is the problem. Even if squishy they have more than enough sustain, on top of a consistent passive pet that you can't just cleave.

Even if from stealth, burst you can anticipate and avoid; then reliably punish justifies the damage. Hell even pet changes, so that pets die without costing an entire combo of cooldowns, and cannot be switched on a whim would go a long way to improve countering the massive damage from the ranger... Also tone down unstoppable union to like 2 seconds.

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@Razor.6392 said:

@"Brohan.6490" said:
soulbeast has way too much oiutput/survivability , it feels like the last thing from pof that's still "uber strong" and needs to be normalized. Boonbeast or sic em sniper, it seems like anet hasn't noticed due to lack of attention to this spec in the last few balance patches.

The build you died to is a glass cannon spec. You can kill it just as fast as it kills you.

With that being said, "one-shot" builds aren't fun to fight against so I
would
like Sic Em to be reworked. And, while bunker boonbeast isn't much of an issue anymore, it doesn't take much skill to play.

Lastly, it's worth mentioning that you were playing a necromancer in that screenshot. Rangers hard counter your class which might make them seem stronger than they actually are.

Killing a soulbeast is never a "lol just 1 shot him" kind of deal like it could happen to a necro, thief or elementalist, where they actually and helplessly can explode within 1 second.

Signet of stone and built in survivability + stealth / gs block means that it will at least take some additional effort to down him, time in which he can turn the situation around.

That's not the case for well-rounded soulbeast builds. However, these gimmick one-shot builds are called glass cannons for a reason. Sure, they might have a few residual defenses after blowing most of their skills on a single wombo-combo. But, they are extremely easy to kill and don't offer anything outside of that one easy-to-avoid rotation.

We can continue to debate this point until we're blue in the face but the fact of the matter is that the build in question is a meme spec that doesn't work in any competitive environment. Players who dedicate even the smallest amount of time necessary to learn how to counter the build no longer have any issues beating it.

Get better at managing your defensive cooldowns and learn how to time attacks at the end of evade frames. You will kill them easily.

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@"Liewec.2896" said:27k? yawn! XDk1v3ZvT.gifthough to the folks saying "dodge it" i run my oneshot build with longbow for stealth and then from stealth hit with Takedown for the knockdownso you can't really dodge when you're getting knockeddown from stealth.the only viable counter really is stability and stunbreakers,but even without the damage multipliers from knockdown you're still getting hit with massive blows.i've stopped playing my soulbeast recently because it just felt too cheesy XD

Makes me want to dig up the old .jpg someone posted in here of Harsh Master landing a 62k Worldy Impact in Eternal Coliseum.

That was back before WI had a damage nerf lol. Awesome .gif btw.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Brohan.6490" said:
soulbeast has way too much oiutput/survivability , it feels like the last thing from pof that's still "uber strong" and needs to be normalized. Boonbeast or sic em sniper, it seems like anet hasn't noticed due to lack of attention to this spec in the last few balance patches.

The build you died to is a glass cannon spec. You can kill it just as fast as it kills you.

With that being said, "one-shot" builds aren't fun to fight against so I
would
like Sic Em to be reworked. And, while bunker boonbeast isn't much of an issue anymore, it doesn't take much skill to play.

Lastly, it's worth mentioning that you were playing a necromancer in that screenshot. Rangers hard counter your class which might make them seem stronger than they actually are.

Killing a soulbeast is never a "lol just 1 shot him" kind of deal like it could happen to a necro, thief or elementalist, where they actually and helplessly can explode within 1 second.

Signet of stone and built in survivability + stealth / gs block means that it will at least take some additional effort to down him, time in which he can turn the situation around.

That's not the case for well-rounded soulbeast builds. However, these gimmick one-shot builds are called glass cannons for a reason.
Sure
, they might have a few residual defenses after blowing most of their skills on a single wombo-combo. But, they are extremely easy to kill and don't offer anything outside of that one easy-to-avoid rotation.

We can continue to debate this point until we're blue in the face but the fact of the matter is that the build in question is a meme spec that doesn't work in any competitive environment. Players who dedicate even the smallest amount of time necessary to learn how to counter the build no longer have any issues beating it.

Get better at managing your defensive cooldowns and learn how to time attacks at the end of evade frames. You will kill them easily.

I mean if a gimmick one shot build can do 20-15k damage on the regular, I don't think a standard build doing half of that damage while being tanky as fuck sounds any more balanced.

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@"Brohan.6490" said:https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/411250257029234698/576647267017293825/unknown.png soulbeast has way too much oiutput/survivability , it feels like the last thing from pof that's still "uber strong" and needs to be normalized. Boonbeast or sic em sniper, it seems like anet hasn't noticed due to lack of attention to this spec in the last few balance patches.

You are necro. Anet prefers you to be the punching bag for all other classes.

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Someone mentioned Boonbeast, but that build has already been nerfed into irrelevance, especially with the reemergence of Scrapper.

I won't really address the one shot build because it's just a meme. But meta Sic Em build is a lot more vulnerable than a lot of people here acting like. Yes, its burst is high, perhaps a bit too high. But it's quite susceptible to CC, condis and pdps as well. Has a few defensive skills, but those can be baited out rather quickly with decent pressure. Focus from two players will make very short work of Sic Em Soulbeast.

Generally, think more about your positioning and make sure you're making use of LOS opportunities. If you're necro, consider CPC for your optional utility slot. Keep moving when Soulbeast is in close range, as most of its skills don't even have to be dodged but simply sidestepped. Make sure you keep moving through Smoke Assault especially so that any close-range skill that may be cast immediately after it will not land (you don't even have to dodge). Maul is predictable and easy to see coming, so there's no excuse for getting hit by it in most cases.

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@Daishi.6027 said:I don't actually mind ranger damage, it's their survivability and passive damage that is the problem. Even if squishy they have more than enough sustain, on top of a consistent passive pet that you can't just cleave.

Even if from stealth, burst you can anticipate and avoid; then reliably punish justifies the damage. Hell even pet changes, so that pets die without costing an entire combo of cooldowns, and cannot be switched on a whim would go a long way to improve countering the massive damage from the ranger... Also tone down unstoppable union to like 2 seconds.

You are a mesmer...you can go around with zerk stats and still have more than enough sustain like distorion spam/blur /blink/stealth/decoy and more...if we talk about survivability then mesmer is on the higher end of the spectrum for none of the investment classes like ele must do to get the same levels of damage

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Brohan.6490" said:
soulbeast has way too much oiutput/survivability , it feels like the last thing from pof that's still "uber strong" and needs to be normalized. Boonbeast or sic em sniper, it seems like anet hasn't noticed due to lack of attention to this spec in the last few balance patches.

The build you died to is a glass cannon spec. You can kill it just as fast as it kills you.

With that being said, "one-shot" builds aren't fun to fight against so I
would
like Sic Em to be reworked. And, while bunker boonbeast isn't much of an issue anymore, it doesn't take much skill to play.

Lastly, it's worth mentioning that you were playing a necromancer in that screenshot. Rangers hard counter your class which might make them seem stronger than they actually are.

This is actually false, many factors like protection, signet of stone, stealth, evade frames gives sic'em soulbeast a lot of sustainibilty for the insane damage it can do. Also don't forget the absurd mobility they have so whenever they're in danger they can just leap out of it.

Nope, it's true.

The most popular
doesn't use:
  1. Wilderness Survival for protection on dodge
  2. Signet of Stone
  3. Longbow for the stealth
  4. Extra evades through utility/weapon skills outside of gs autos and Swoop

Not to mention the build uses it's stealth for engaging, not escaping. So, if you dodge the gimmicky combo, there's a period of 16 seconds where they are unable to stealth again. Also, if the ranger misses the Worldly Impact, the rest of the combo revolves around landing Takedown into Maul. Thus, the ranger doesn't have the mobility from Gazelle/Snow Owl's leap in Beastmode. Furthermore, this combo is only decently reliable if the ranger stealths from out of your line of sight (generally 1200+ range away). This means that they only have 3 seconds (without using Swoop) to close that distance. Since that's impossible unless you were running in their direction, they will be required to use Swoop through Smoke Cloud to get into melee range while still in stealth.

In other words, the one-shot soulbeast build doesn't have protection, signet of stone, stealth, or any additional mobility after the combo. For evades, they only have the two base dodges everyone has access to + a one-second windup time on the autos for the evade on Power Stab. If they decide to use sword instead of MH axe and didn't use Hornet's Sting + Monarch's Leap for additional stealth to engage, they'll have another (easily interruptible) leap on S2 and an extra 3/4 second evade on S3.

Trust me when I say that these builds are completely trash. I've been killed twice by this combo in the past two years since PoF came out. And, those deaths only occurred because:
  1. I didn't know they were running one-shot builds at the start of the match.
  2. They stealthed from off-screen so I didn't know they were coming.

This is not the most popular build at all, the most popular build definetely uses longbow. Just watch Boyce's view in a recent AT on Jawgeous channel and you have the build I'm talking about. Extreme damage, high sustain and mobility

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Soulbeast has a very well telegraphed and lengthy stealth rotation and in general very limited stealth access. If you don't see it coming, you deserve the oneshot. A build like that has 0 sustain and if you avoid that 1 attack, you win. See them steallthing? Use your brain and get away for a few seconds. wow very hard

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@Snellibee.2761 said:This is not the most popular build at all, the most popular build definetely uses longbow. Just watch Boyce's view in a recent AT on Jawgeous channel and you have the build I'm talking about. Extreme damage, high sustain and mobility

Where is the high sustain coming from? I saw that AT and i believe he was running lbow/gs, we heal as one, sick em, quickening zephyr and one wolf pack, soulbeast, beastmastery, wilderness survival. Marauder or demolisher amu with eagle rune, smokescale and owl. This build has just one purpose and it's unblockable lbow burst damage every 60sec ( w/o OWP every 36sec). Damage is dealt in very short window of like 3sec and can do 25k dmg+- (on low/no defence enemies). If enemy manage to dodge you already do less then half of it. Releasing such burst makes you waste every single utility. If you are not aware, rev can melt you down in 2secs, same goes for war.

Gotta low how ppl bring all the possitives of 5 diferent builds together and than claim how a class is super OP :D

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@Razor.6392 said:

@"Brohan.6490" said:
soulbeast has way too much oiutput/survivability , it feels like the last thing from pof that's still "uber strong" and needs to be normalized. Boonbeast or sic em sniper, it seems like anet hasn't noticed due to lack of attention to this spec in the last few balance patches.

The build you died to is a glass cannon spec. You can kill it just as fast as it kills you.

With that being said, "one-shot" builds aren't fun to fight against so I
would
like Sic Em to be reworked. And, while bunker boonbeast isn't much of an issue anymore, it doesn't take much skill to play.

Lastly, it's worth mentioning that you were playing a necromancer in that screenshot. Rangers hard counter your class which might make them seem stronger than they actually are.

Killing a soulbeast is never a "lol just 1 shot him" kind of deal like it could happen to a necro, thief or elementalist, where they actually and helplessly can explode within 1 second.

Signet of stone and built in survivability + stealth / gs block means that it will at least take some additional effort to down him, time in which he can turn the situation around.

That's not the case for well-rounded soulbeast builds. However, these gimmick one-shot builds are called glass cannons for a reason.
Sure
, they might have a few residual defenses after blowing most of their skills on a single wombo-combo. But, they are extremely easy to kill and don't offer anything outside of that one easy-to-avoid rotation.

We can continue to debate this point until we're blue in the face but the fact of the matter is that the build in question is a meme spec that doesn't work in any competitive environment. Players who dedicate even the smallest amount of time necessary to learn how to counter the build no longer have any issues beating it.

Get better at managing your defensive cooldowns and learn how to time attacks at the end of evade frames. You will kill them easily.

I mean if a gimmick one shot build can do 20-15k damage on the regular, I don't think a standard build doing half of that damage while being tanky as kitten sounds any more balanced.

I know you main ele....for eles right now ranger is by far and miles...the easiest class to kill..like even on tempest you're on even ground against common ranger, now take that common player and put them on a holosmith or scrapper and you will see a world difference

But don't take my words for granted..go and jump on a ranger and try to accomplish half of what you see in the videos, you will soon realise that is not even half as easy as it looks , yes you have stone signet and that's all...rest is dodges and awareness with the benefit of medium armor.

A huge boon utpime is not that uncommon anymore I believe, even eles can achieve that...I mean c'mon man..I can jump on any class , have 1-2 hundreds hours on it and I will do fine against 70% of rangers out there...it doesn't get any easier than that, even necros the so called "punching bag" are far harder to kill....on ele especially

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