Suggestion: Add +6, +7, +8 stat infusion rare drops to raids — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Suggestion: Add +6, +7, +8 stat infusion rare drops to raids

+6 - rare drop from normal bosses.
+7 - rare drop from last boss of the wing and from normal bosses CMs.
+8 - rare drop from last boss of the wing CM.

Comments

  • Why? Surely anyone who raids can simply buy infusions off the TP.

    • +6 ~0.85g
    • +7 ~1.8g
    • +8 ~3.75g

    Alternatively, what would you remove from the existing tables to maintain the same relative value of the bosses?

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • mbhalo.1547mbhalo.1547 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm talking about infusion that give +6, +7, +8 to stat like power, precision, ferocity etc.

  • mbhalo.1547mbhalo.1547 Member ✭✭✭

    So for example: Infusion that gives +6 to power and +9 to agony resistance

  • @mbhalo.1547 said:
    I'm talking about infusion that give +6, +7, +8 to stat like power, precision, ferocity etc.
    So for example: Infusion that gives +6 to power and +9 to agony resistance

    And why would that be a good thing for the game? Aren't Stat+5 infusions sufficient already?

    FYI you can already buy Ghostly Infusions for cash, 90-110 gold each typically. Or with magnetite.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • mbhalo.1547mbhalo.1547 Member ✭✭✭

    @borgs.6103 said:

    • P2W accusations

    How in the world this is P2W?

    • Vertical Progression

    GW2 could use some vertical progression.

    • Even more Elitisim (LFGs w/ +8 stat infusions only req.)

    People don't ask in LFG for +5 why it would change with +8?

    • WvW power creep. (Who wouldn't want 18 +8's of a stat)

    WvW balance has been abandoned with PoF, no one cares anymore.

  • mbhalo.1547mbhalo.1547 Member ✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    And why would that be a good thing for the game? Aren't Stat+5 infusions sufficient already?

    Endgame community will actually play the raids and not quit the game.

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭

    would prefer an additional prefix like, increases bufffood duration by 2%
    so infusion would look like this

    +5 Power
    +9 Agony Resistance
    +2% Bufffood duration

    Would be a nice QoL addition for yourself with no "conflict potential".

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It would keep people busy for a bit, I suppose. All though, it is debatable whether something this minor would make most players stick around if they had already been thinking about quitting. We are talking about an increase of 54 stats (at best).
    Personally, I would certainly like to see an incentive to repeat the CMs but that goes against what the devs want. Remember someone stating that they do not wish to split the community further into CM and non-CM groups when it was brought up before. Doubt they'd be interested in making the infusion system even more complicated either as they also mentioned to regret having introduced it in the current manner. As in, they would remove them entirely if it wasn't for everyone having invested so deeply into infusions.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • mbhalo.1547mbhalo.1547 Member ✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Is it your contention that people are quitting because they can't add 50 points to their stats? That seems farfetched at best.

    They are quitting because there is nothing to do. Endgame players always want to get BiS gear, and in my opinion it will be a positive change, if getting it will involve playing hardest content in the game not just once but multiple times.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Most raiders dont use stat infusions.

  • @mbhalo.1547 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Is it your contention that people are quitting because they can't add 50 points to their stats? That seems farfetched at best.

    They are quitting because there is nothing to do.

    Some are, sure. Adding a minor reward won't address that.

    Endgame players always want to get BiS gear,

    And they have it.

    if getting it will involve playing hardest content in the game not just once but multiple times.

    There are already rewards for repeating end-game content and, as you note, that doesn't prevent people from leaving.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • mbhalo.1547mbhalo.1547 Member ✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Adding a minor reward won't address that.

    Why do you think so? It will be a positive effect, regardless the size of the impact on the problem.

    And they have it.

    Not if you add a little bump in vertical progression.

    There are already rewards for repeating end-game content and, as you note, that doesn't prevent people from leaving.

    There is no rewards to repeat raid CMs.

  • @mbhalo.1547 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Adding a minor reward won't address that.

    Why do you think so? It will be a positive effect, regardless the size of the impact on the problem.

    As I said before, it's farfetched to believe that people are leaving because they don't have access to Stat+8 infusions.
    It's also expensive to add new types of items, to rebalance rewards, and to balance professions with more permutations of stat maximums. That's too much for "regardless of the size of the impact."

    And they have it.

    Not if you add a little bump in vertical progression.

    That's circular reasoning.

    There are already rewards for repeating end-game content and, as you note, that doesn't prevent people from leaving.

    There is no rewards to repeat raid CMs.

    That only covers the third of your suggestions. And ANet has addressed why they don't want CMs to have weekly rewards.


    Basically, this is being presented as a solution in search of a problem. The specific suggestion is unlikely to impact player attrition

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13, 2019

    @mbhalo.1547 said:
    I'm talking about infusion that give +6, +7, +8 to stat like power, precision, ferocity etc.

    Raids already provide access to +5/5s, +5/7s and +5/9s.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mighty_5_Agony_Infusion

    What you are asking for is:

    • a way cheaper
    • more powerful (more stat bonus)
    • for a game mode which does not make use of a central feature (raids do not require agony resistance)

    In short: you want all the cake at a vastly reduced price.

    Never going to happen.

    EDIT:
    I did the basic math in a different thread, here let me quote myself:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    A full set of WvW Might infusions costs:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mighty_WvW_Infusion
    18x5 Laurels = 90 Laurels equivalent to approximately 63 gold (with a generous conversion rate of 70 silver per Laurel)
    18x125 Badges = 2,250 Badges of Honor, converting these to Badges of Tribute they come out to about 12 gold, so let's call these 20 gold

    Total cost for the WvW Might infusions: give or take 80 gold

    A.) Base cost of 18 +9 agony infusions (no 5 stat bonus):
    18 x 8 gold: 144 gold

    B.) Let's take the +5/5 basic Might infusion as baseline for fractals (most people will need +5/7s or even +5/9s if completely new):
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mighty_5_Agony_Infusion
    18 x 15 gold = 270 gold
    18 x 75 = 1,350 Magnetite Shards (at around 1k MS per 100 gold, that's around 130 gold)

    Total cost for +5/5s with Magnetite Shards: 400 gold

    C.) This increases to 850 gold for +5/7s and over 1,700 gold for +5/9s. As mentioned, the infusions most people will have to use when starting fractals due to lack of masteries and upgrades from Deroir.

    Suffice to say, at around 100 gold for +5/9s, getting +6/9s or above as direct drops would be an insane value increase. Given the approximate doubling of price per 2 stat points, a +7/9 for example would be like getting 200 gold or above to instantly drop. That is on top of other issues mentioned.

    @mbhalo.1547 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Is it your contention that people are quitting because they can't add 50 points to their stats? That seems farfetched at best.

    They are quitting because there is nothing to do. Endgame players always want to get BiS gear, and in my opinion it will be a positive change, if getting it will involve playing hardest content in the game not just once but multiple times.

    Most people don't even bother with normal +5s, now you assume they will suddenly care when there is even more stats to grind for? Yeah, I'm not buying it.

  • mbhalo.1547mbhalo.1547 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    a way cheaper
    vastly reduced price.

    The price always depends on drop rate.

    for a game mode which does not make use of a central feature (raids do not require agony resistance)

    As you said yourself raids already drop infusions with agony.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think vertical progression is a bad idea in this game. We would lose more people then we would gain

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13, 2019

    @mbhalo.1547 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    a way cheaper
    vastly reduced price.

    The price always depends on drop rate.

    No, it doesn't. The price is dependent on drop rate (and not even that since there is craftable +5/9s which set a price point for the ones purchasable on the TP which dropped and which would otherwise drop below the crafted price) only as far as it is a source of supply.

    The price is where supply and demand meet (and demand is a function of comparable items, desire, rarity, etc.). Drop rate is only part of that function.

    As such:

    • you are basically asking for additional super rare drops (as to not mess with the current market) which does nothing for your goal to promote health or longevity (for a majority of the player base, you have still not shown how players are motivated by infusions to play longer).

    • Or you are asking for the current market and items to be made some what obsolete by giving these new drops a higher drop rate.

    @mbhalo.1547 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    for a game mode which does not make use of a central feature (raids do not require agony resistance)

    As you said yourself raids already drop infusions with agony.

    Yes, and those infusions are fixed at the price point of where comparable crafted infusions are at.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    Don't even try. People who write on these forums dislike the idea of vertical progressions and see no benefit in the idea of introducing new vertical progression. This topic has been recreated countless times before.

    The fact remains that people who play PvE in this game don't care about vertical progression. If they did they would stop ages ago as there is a bare minimum of vertical progression in this game.

    You are essentially trying to convince a salad bar that they should start offering cheeseburgers. But people who are coming to this bar simply don't care about cheeseburgers

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Only if they also get added to other game types. The last thing this game needs is more raid elitism.

    Like a PvP / WvW reward track, a crafting recipe and a tradable PvE drop.

    Ascalon Will Prevail!

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  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    And please add them to fractals since having AR is the prerequisite for this game mode in the first place. It wouldn't make sense to just hand it out to raids, PvP & WvW.

    But yeah, in the end vertical progression goes against the strict philosophy in this game called GW2. They'll never give that up because it's definitely not needed here. They'd rather abandon developing dead raids and ship out living stories and minor updates to PvP &WvW than focussing on improving raids for the relevant player base. You're in the wrong game - the niche gets what it deserves - and it's fine.

    ...written by a fractal god & former raid veteran...

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @mbhalo.1547 said:
    +6 - rare drop from normal bosses.
    +7 - rare drop from last boss of the wing and from normal bosses CMs.
    +8 - rare drop from last boss of the wing CM.

    I like that your adding incentives to doing CMs more, although I also acknowlege Anet's concerns about splitting the community. I think monthly raid CMs would be a good compromise. But the infusion system is such a mess right now, and I think this update would make it even more of a mess. Two problems I see:

    1.) Cosmetic infusions are all (or nearly all) +9/+5. With no aura system in the wardrobe, there is no way to get the (for example) ghostly infusion effect while using your new infusions (talking about a hardcore min/maxer who would have 18 +8 stat infusions). This means, the expensive auras that people want are now going to be inferior items from a min/max perspective. That's bad imo. This could be remedied with a system of adding auras to the wardrobe (which has its own problems: i.e. why own more than 1 ghostly infusion then?), but it would need to happen first, and Anet hasn't said anything about it even as a long term goal, not even in the post where they mention legendary runes among other really long term projects (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/whats-next-for-guild-wars-2/).

    2.) infinite vertical progression for fractals is already in a stupid spot. Currently through the mist potions, 1 point of AR = 1.5 pts of toughness,concentration, and precision. And AR is an effectively infinite vertical progression. Meaning you should want lots of AR. However, the actually useful stat, strength, isn't given by this conversion, making +9 AR/+5 might usually the best choice for max dps of a dps player. So currently, the infinite progression system in game right now (working your way towards bigger and bigger AR infusions) isn't even good for a large chunk of the population because extra toughness,concentration, and precision isn't worth anything to them (maybe its good for boon givers? Don't know havn't checked.). Having a +9 AR/+8 infusion makes this even worse, as the dps disparity between larger AR infusions and stat infusions is made even worse. Before introducing +8 stat infusions, Anet should first incorporate +5 stat infusions into their current existing infinite progression system. It should be possible to upgrade +5 stat/+9 AR into +5 stat/+10 AR etc first. Then, once that is done, they could think about what your proposing.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 13, 2019

    @mbhalo.1547 said:

    @borgs.6103 said:

    • P2W accusations

    How in the world this is P2W?

    There are people who throw out the ‘P2W’ accusations at every opportunity due to the connotations that the phrase brings.

    Their basis would be that expansions are P2W, and since raids requires one of the expansions... well, you can see where they’d go from there.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Would be nothing but powercreep. That stat infusions exists is bad enough, shouldve been solely reserved for agony resistance and nothing more.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 13, 2019

    Raids absolutely DO NOT need more exclusive rewards.

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2019

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    People stop playing games for all sorts of reasons and over time, game communities shrink. That's as inevitable as death and taxes (and the decline of DnT for that matter). Nothing is going to keep some people from burning out or RL from preventing others from having time to play.

    From Nike's twitter:

    " To avoid profitless speculation, I wanted to give some insight into why. Foremost, wing 6 did not reinvigorate the raid community, and our guild, the way Wing 5 did. This was Arenanet's fault and simply a cause of too little too late. That said, Wing 6 is great, and makes a valuable addition to the game, but it was simply not enough after ten months of raiding content drought. The fights, while fun, are too straightforward and were too easily "solved" from a speed clear perspective to encourage real competition and innovation.

    Secondly, as a result of the long content drought between Wing 5 and Wing 6, the NA raid scene declined significantly. After the release of each raid wing we historically saw a big rise in the amount of application to join the guild from skilled players looking to make a leap to a speedclear guild. This did not happen after Wing 6. There is no new pool of up and coming players to recruit from, or if there is, I certainly don't know about it. "

    In other words, Wing 6 was to easy. And there is no incentive to replay CMs. And when they release Coalescence (with probably laughable number of Legendary Divination required there will be 0 reason to do raids. Raiders don't need 9 (kITtEn-oof) months to complete achievements from newly released raid wing. Fractals get released once every 200 days and If we get them, they don't have CMs. There is nothing to work on in PvE endgame.

    Having something to work towards in this gamemode would keep players engaged with the game. It doesn't have to be stat infusion. And since we already have raids in the game and Anet doesn't seem to stop with releasing new wings - we might as well get something meaningful as a reward.

  • Deadvillager.1956Deadvillager.1956 Member ✭✭✭

    @sigur.9453 said:
    would prefer an additional prefix like, increases bufffood duration by 2%
    so infusion would look like this

    +5 Power
    +9 Agony Resistance
    +2% Bufffood duration

    Would be a nice QoL addition for yourself with no "conflict potential".

    I did not know how much I need this. This is literally the only way to make me care for stat infusions other than give them ridiculous power levels like +20.

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