Community has changed

[Katastroff.1045]

@Mortifera.6138

Nice monologue.

[Yamazuki.6073]

At least complaining about nothing isn't ever changing.

[Randulf.7614]

@mercury ranique.2170 said:Not going to repeat the discussion, but you are incorrect. Just chiming in as you claim to speak on behalf of the community (but engages with the community when they disagree with you). So another number saying you are incorrect in your facts. I also disagree. The community is strong and very far from dead.

This. Not sure why the op wants to convince us the community is dead or neglected when evidence is stacked against that idea.

The fact that they are doing LS more suggests they have a very healthy player base although id prefer expacs

[Trise.2865]

K, bye. See when you get back.

[Teratus.2859]

The living world can give "expansion like" content but it cannot and never will be able to give us expansion content.

Compare any living world map to any expansion map and you'll see what I mean.Sure we can have big, epic story moments in the living world and Anet can release brand new features like new mounts etc in the living world but the living world cannot and never will be able to provide the same level of content as an expansion nor match it's overall quality, pacing and rewards etc.

Living world is too heavily bound by time constraints and it's episodic nature means that each release needs to essentially trap the players attention to keep them playing.While it takes several months for a new living world release to drop, It'll take most people a matter of hours before they've completed the story and explored the new map, and only a few days to round up most of the basic achievements depending on their dedication.What keeps people around longer is the rewards.. skins, gear etc and this is where all living world episodes start getting extremely grindy and tedious.New map, new currency, new rewards.. new massive boring grinding requirements.Far too many living world maps can be dumbed down to the same rinse and repeat tedium of farming a new map currency by farming new map nodes and new map events just to get skins we'll probably replace in 3-5 months with the next episodes drops.If you don't participate in this trend then chances are you'll play the new living world episode for several hours when it comes out, beat the story, explore the map, run some events and get a bunch of achivements and then you'll leave to go back to your old routine and only bother with the new map again when you run an alt through the story or you fancy some AP hunting or a specific reward from that map.

Expansion content on the other hand offers a great deal more to do overall with much more variety than just the grinding for rewards the living world provides.There's a lot more hidden about and smaller details that show the content has had a great deal more time and care put into it's development.With longer development time comes a higher quality of content that's just normal, and I think a lot of people would agree that they would rather pay for expansions to add a big chunk of content to the game at once than spend years waiting on episodes of grindy releases.

Living world is a good idea and I very much enjoy it, but it is no substitute for actual expansions..It's a great tool for world building and filling in the content drought between expansions, adding new story to bridge the gaps etc but if Anet stop making expansions for Gw2 entirely then I would expect a lot of players to loose faith in this game, I know I certainly would.Sure we'll probably stick around but we will never be able to shake the mindset of "this new content is great but it would have been so much better in an expansion!"

[chaosdurza.3291]

@Teratus.2859 said:Living world is a good idea and I very much enjoy it, but it is no substitute for actual expansions..

Hard to find an argument against this. I love the living worlds, but I finish the story (like most players) in a couple of hours. The maps for LW4 have not interested me so far, and it is very hard to argue with the fact the quality of the PoF maps is FAR superior to the quality of the living world maps. It takes significantly longer to get through the story for the expansions, and it's long enough that it is fairly enjoyable to repeat. Add in the fact that we get elite specializations with expansions which can often make you feel like you're playing a brand new character, a new set of masteries which so far have fundamentally changed aspects of the game, running hero point trains, unique events like bounties and the meta events on HoT maps, LW does NOT deliver the same experience that expansion content does. I'm not saying that it is not possible for Anet to make expansion quality content with LW, but were at the end of the 4th season of it and they have yet to do so. And if the quality is supposed to skyrocket in season 5, does that mean we're going to have to wait even longer between episodes now?

I'm not saying the game is dead, I still log on and play nearly every single day. And I love the game. But the current state definitely FEELS like a decline, whether it actually is or not.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Kodokuna Akuma.9570 said:

@Mortifera.6138 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:I don't really understand the premise of this thread. Why would they make new Living Story episodes if there was no community?

It’s a relatively small community that’s left, hence LS over expansions.

Just admit it, guys: no expansion spells trouble.

LS is more healthy for the game than an expansion.

Alot of influct for new content is returning players. So the choice is do you have players return and draw attention to your game every few months with a lw episode or do you wait 1-2 years and draw in a few more who will stick around for a little while then still leave.That doesn't really work that way. Living Story simply doesn't have the same draw expansions do. All it can do is to slow the decay. It's the expacs that bring players back. In the end, you do need both.

[mauried.5608]

The game needs new players far more than returning players or existing players as new players actually buy the game with real money.Expansions and LS only benefit existing players.

[mercury ranique.2170]

Just a bit more of my two cents about living world content versus expansion pack type content.Arenanet traditionally always made games that where groundbreaking . It never did stuff the way they shoulddo, but they always challenged themself to reinvent the format of MMORPG's. GW1 never was a true MMORPG and GW2 broke with many characteristics of the genre.This has contributed to the popularity of the game and also attracked a lot more seasoned MMORPG-players. This also brought many requests to do things one could do within their own game.(housing, fishing, raiding, etc). Not much worng with that, but it is impossible to cater everyone. By trying so, Arenanet has been in my opinion on a slippery slope ging away from the groundbreaking game developper and into a copycat.Living world can be a lot like expansions and actually are, but when people are too narrowminded to see it and need an expansion to come back to the game, they are in the way of the progressive nature GW2 once had and hopefully will regain.

[kratan.4619]

Oh no, another Mortifera "the game is dying" post.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Mortifera.6138 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:ArenaNet is admitting/claiming no such thing.

They are, indirectly, with acts such as “letting go” their Community Manager since Beta of the original Guild Wars. Unless we use your logic, in which case they’re not

not

admitting it.

Maybe the fact that Gaile was in the same position for so long was part of the problem?If there's one word to describe Arena Net from 2015 till 2019 is "stagnant" they were really just going through the motions, the creative moments were very few and far between, the style of communication was formulaic and stale (much like the content development). The lay-off seemed to instil some freshness in the game and the devs, it's sad to someone you like and respect like Gaile, that was so pivotal in several of the best aspects of the game, but the game needed some changes.It's sad that those changes came about via a lay-off instead of some in-house rotations, but it was needed.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Expansions are obvious moneymakers and will give good press outside of the game. I don't really understand why ArenaNet selected the road they are on right now.Don't get me wrong, the Living World episodes have been great and will keep the majority of the current playerbase engaged, but it is given for free and won't make any interest from outsiders. Even when a new expansion would cost more to make than it gives back in direct sales, it still would be worth it for all the reviews and to spark interest with new or returning players.

[kharmin.7683]

I really love how people who aren't investors and have no inner-working knowledge of what goes on at Anet can claim that they know exactly what the game NEEDS or else the game will flat-out die.

[dodgerrule.8739]

It’ll be at least another 2 years for an expansion if this next season releases at the same speed. I know they have something in store for us in between the seasons though.

They’re working on getting the blueprints right to make living world replace expansions when expansions release

[MoriMoriMori.5349]

@Mortifera.6138 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:ArenaNet is admitting/claiming no such thing.

They are, indirectly, with acts such as “letting go” their Community Manager since Beta of the original Guild Wars. Unless we use your logic, in which case they’re not

not

admitting it.

Isn't it more attributed to the fact they are now sharing publishing department with their parent company? I think I saw a statement like this, that community management will be done now by NCSoft staff.

[Neural.1824]

@Mortifera.6138 said:

@"Ben K.6238" said:I don't really understand the premise of this thread. Why would they make new Living Story episodes if there was no community?

It’s a relatively small community that’s left, hence LS over expansions.

Just admit it, guys: no expansion spells trouble.

If you mean to say that "no expansions" means less money for the game, I'm waiting until the next season of LS, because I'm guessing we're going to find out it won't be free.

[Naudiz.1032]

Not really anything to do with your arguments here-- but as another member suggested, consider taking a break. A real, total break from the game, the forums, and any media surrounding it. I can't know for sure, since I'm not you, but it seems like the more you think about it, the more bitter and adamant you get. Nothing wrong with that, it's human nature, but really consider taking a full-on break.

It can do wonders for your mental health and let you come back in bright-eyed and enthusiastic.

[Tiviana.2650]

I agree LWS is no substitute for an expansion, the turn around time on expansions is usually 2to3 years, any longer and the game stalls out. I dont know how they do xpacks, if they announce them ahead of time or not. Do they have beta testing if so how long, all that generally takes a good 6 months at least from the time you hear an xpack is coming. PoF released in September 2017, so if an expansion is going to happen on a two/three year cycle then we should hear something in the next couple of months. Because there is a long period of alpha and beta testing that usually happens.

[Nemo.8759]

LWS cannot replace for an expansion. LW is free content, Anet need people spend REAL money in this game, expansion is the best way to let people open their wallet :)I believe there will be new expansion in the future, maybe 2020 or 2021

[ugrakarma.9416]

no-expansion is better than a cheap-expasion, making a expansion for the sake of making a expansion will hurt more than have benefits. for example, with this mess in the balance, do you really think it would be time to have even more specializations?