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can we admit that raids have gotten a little too toxic?


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ive been playing gw2 for 5 years now, and ive seen a lot of good and bad of this game. ill admit i wasn't exactly thrilled when raids where announced. but i figured hey, something new to try. finally wanting to make my set of legendary armor i decided to delve in about a year ago into the raid scene. at first i was lost and confused like my first dungeon runs. expected of a new mode. i started to struggle more and more with finding groups. so i looked into it asked around. found out my build was shit. unfortunate but not uprising. so i sent a couple weeks farming and crafting a BS warr. made a few other classes along the way. after learning the mechanics and even leading some training raids myself i actually had some fun. so after all that people would finally let me join groups. but now just forming a group is an all day affair. id join a group, we would sit around for an hour till we had 10 ppl. we make one attempt on the boss. someone dies the entire group leaves. wtf.exe. now i see things like this all the time, people kicked for there class, people kicked for joining and asking a question, even when the question was "what role do we need" witch baffled me. people leaving cuz they went down and no one ressed them. people kicking at the end of a run to sell for raids. people trash talking, people blocking for asking a simple question. the list goes on and on. this game used to be the friendliest game i knew i raid and pvp in a lot of games, and ive never seen anything this toxic out side of league of legends. is there no remedy to this? ive tried a lot of things, but theres not much else i can do as an individual. ive looked for static groups, and im currently asking around for a guild, hoping this will finally bring me some relief on the matter. i guess this is really just a vent, about how even when you learn the ins and outs the only hard part of raids is finding a group that will actually make more than one attempt. i get anet wanted more challenging content, nothin wrong with that. but am i the only one who things this has gotten a little to out of hand? i guess ill end there and wait for the endless line of "git gud" comments, but im hoping things might get changed for the better.

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No.

ive been playing gw2 for 5 years now, and ive seen a lot of good and bad of this gameI think you missed how strict people were when it comes to dungeon speedclears.now i see things like this all the time, people kicked for there classBecause some classes under-perform and we have so-called "meta" for pugs so we know what to expect from somebody playing their class.people kicked for joining and asking a question, even when the question was "what role do we need" witch baffled meIf squad is 9/10 on lfg and they're looking for specific build I can see that happen. Kicking others for that is just over-exaggerating.people leaving cuz they went down and no one ressed them.
I feel sorry for you if those are the people you play with.people trash talking, people blocking for asking a simple questionSome are just tiered. That's what over 3 years of raiding and only 1 wing per year does to people. Asking stupid questions in non-training runs get annoy some commanders.

You weren't paying attention if you just noticed that small portion of people in endgame content can be harsh. It's not a place for you if you expect everyone to hold hands and dance in a circle. Mistakes can cause wipe and waste time of 9 other people in the squad so some thing are expected of you. I've seen "toxic casuals" than I see people kicking from their squad for no reason.

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Every time i see a post like this i wonder if people actually play the game or are just exaggerating.I rarely see people getting kicked. Hell, commanders on EU Servers are too afraid to actually command, let alone kick someone. Instead of appointing someone for shroom or cannons they just ask and wait for like 10 minutes.

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@SoulPrime.8029 said:ive been playing gw2 for 5 years now, and ive seen a lot of good and bad of this game. ill admit i wasn't exactly thrilled when raids where announced. but i figured hey, something new to try. finally wanting to make my set of legendary armor i decided to delve in about a year ago into the raid scene. at first i was lost and confused like my first dungeon runs. expected of a new mode.

and this is the part where most people already stop. Congratulations to you, you were motivated enough to move past this state.

@SoulPrime.8029 said:i started to struggle more and more with finding groups. so i looked into it asked around. found out my build was kitten. unfortunate but not uprising.

Every single persons build will be inefficient (unless they made builds specifically for fractal CMs or used fractal guides) because there is nothing in the rest of the game which would challenge or force players to optimize in this way.

@SoulPrime.8029 said:so i sent a couple weeks farming and crafting a BS warr. made a few other classes along the way. after learning the mechanics and even leading some training raids myself i actually had some fun. so after all that people would finally let me join groups. but now just forming a group is an all day affair. id join a group, we would sit around for an hour till we had 10 ppl. we make one attempt on the boss. someone dies the entire group leaves.

Yes, PUG raiding can be annoying. What exactly prevents you from joining a guild or a semi static or a discord server? Raids were not designed to be PUGed, the fact that they can be already speaks to their ease.

@SoulPrime.8029 said:kitten.exe. now i see things like this all the time, people kicked for there class, people kicked for joining and asking a question, even when the question was "what role do we need" witch baffled me. people leaving cuz they went down and no one ressed them.

That happen a lot in the lower raid brackets of PUGs. Especially sub 500 LI. It happens in the higher tiers too, but less often since both success is more often guaranteed even if a wipe happens or the problematic element gets replaced.

@SoulPrime.8029 said:people kicking at the end of a run to sell for raids.

In my 3.5 years of raiding in this game, I have never experienced this. I have never experienced this in fractals too. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it must be very rare or I was insanely lucky. I play on EU, so not sure if EU and US differ here (I would assume not).

@SoulPrime.8029 said:people trash talking, people blocking for asking a simple question. the list goes on and on. this game used to be the friendliest game i knew i raid and pvp in a lot of games, and ive never seen anything this toxic out side of league of legends. is there no remedy to this? ive tried a lot of things, but theres not much else i can do as an individual. ive looked for static groups, and im currently asking around for a guild, hoping this will finally bring me some relief on the matter. i guess this is really just a vent, about how even when you learn the ins and outs the only hard part of raids is finding a group that will actually make more than one attempt. i get anet wanted more challenging content, nothin wrong with that. but am i the only one who things this has gotten a little to out of hand? i guess ill end there and wait for the endless line of "git gud" comments, but im hoping things might get changed for the better.

All of these issues disappear when you join a guild of like minded people. It doesn't even have to be a hardcore raid guild. There is a ton of casual guild which raid by now. It might not be a wing 1-6 full clear, but there is friendly casual guilds which field raid groups 1-2 days per week (one of the guilds I'm in is just this, and the people are very relaxed and friendly).

This has nothing to do with git gud, you already did that far enough to succeed in this raid environment. Now all you need to do is implement the last step and join a guild (in this MMO) with whom you enjoy raiding a couple of days per week.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@SoulPrime.8029 said:so i sent a couple weeks farming and crafting a BS warr. made a few other classes along the way. after learning the mechanics and even leading some training raids myself i actually had some fun. so after all that people would finally let me join groups. but now just forming a group is an all day affair. id join a group, we would sit around for an hour till we had 10 ppl. we make one attempt on the boss. someone dies the entire group leaves.

Yes, PUG raiding can be annoying. What exactly prevents you from joining a guild or a semi static or a discord server? Raids were not designed to be PUGed, the fact that they can be already speaks to their ease.

THIS!

How can a community be so stubborn and ignore this fact.Raids where never designed for pugging. You also miss out the most fun part of that mode, learning a boss as a group (preferable with people you like = guild/static).But somehow PPL that join PUG raids for the loot get annoyed by PPL who join PUG raids for the loot, who would have thought.

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@sigur.9453 said:

@SoulPrime.8029 said:so i sent a couple weeks farming and crafting a BS warr. made a few other classes along the way. after learning the mechanics and even leading some training raids myself i actually had some fun. so after all that people would finally let me join groups. but now just forming a group is an all day affair. id join a group, we would sit around for an hour till we had 10 ppl. we make one attempt on the boss. someone dies the entire group leaves.

Yes, PUG raiding can be annoying. What exactly prevents you from joining a guild or a semi static or a discord server? Raids were not designed to be PUGed, the fact that they can be already speaks to their ease.

THIS!

How can a community be so stubborn and ignore this fact.Raids where never designed for pugging. You also miss out the most fun part of that mode, learning a boss as a group (preferable with people you like = guild/static).But somehow PPL that join PUG raids for the loot get annoyed by PPL who join PUG raids for the loot, who would have thought.

People got trained over the years in other MMORPGs that all content needs to be doable with PUGs. Doesn't matter if the content can provide this out of the box or if difficulty scales are needed. But everything needs to be pugable with success and minor knowledge or it isn't 'accessible'.

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I feel very sorry for you OP that you have to put up with the worst outliers of the raid community apparently all the time. The current balance should allow you to play almost any DPS at any boss as long as you respect their limitations (as in play condi DPS on strict condi bosses and vice versa). Reaper even becomes more valid every time! There will always be some rotten people but I just cant believe you have never had a good experience PUGing. For me personally I might run into bad squads/commanders maybe somewhere between 5-10% and then I just leave or block the toxic parts.

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I play on EU. I raid for almost 2 years now and I never metany toxicity, outside of training/guild runs I get a kill in few tries, my PUG squad is filled within minutes and I was kicked only once (I would have left anyway I guess) because that guild blamed me for failing mechanic that they didnt understand correctly. After that I explained the commander what they are doing wrong, he thanked me and I wason my way.

If you are playing in NA then I am sorry for all NA raiders if this is standard but I would have expected that. If you play in EU then you must be very unlucky

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@Miellyn.6847 said:

@SoulPrime.8029 said:so i sent a couple weeks farming and crafting a BS warr. made a few other classes along the way. after learning the mechanics and even leading some training raids myself i actually had some fun. so after all that people would finally let me join groups. but now just forming a group is an all day affair. id join a group, we would sit around for an hour till we had 10 ppl. we make one attempt on the boss. someone dies the entire group leaves.

Yes, PUG raiding can be annoying. What exactly prevents you from joining a guild or a semi static or a discord server? Raids were not designed to be PUGed, the fact that they can be already speaks to their ease.

THIS!

How can a community be so stubborn and ignore this fact.Raids where never designed for pugging. You also miss out the most fun part of that mode, learning a boss as a group (preferable with people you like = guild/static).But somehow PPL that join PUG raids for the loot get annoyed by PPL who join PUG raids for the loot, who would have thought.

People got trained over the years in other MMORPGs that all content needs to be doable with PUGs. Doesn't matter if the content can provide this out of the box or if difficulty scales are needed. But everything needs to be pugable with success and minor knowledge or it isn't 'accessible'.

i wished accessibility stopped being so important when discussing if a game is good or not

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@SoulPrime.8029 said:@SoulPrime.8029 said:people kicking at the end of a run to sell for raids.

In my 3.5 years of raiding in this game, I have never experienced this. I have never experienced this in fractals too. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it must be very rare or I was insanely lucky. I play on EU, so not sure if EU and US differ here (I would assume not).

This is a straight lie of OP btw, if you kick a player during a raid kill/attempts it fully resets the boss. Think anet changed this almost a year ago. He might've run into that one horrible pug seller, Sillytune, that made a squad with 2 or 3 friends and rest pugs and then at low % of boss one of his friends (or even think he made a random pug leave) so he could invite a buyer and never gave gold to the other pugs that basically helped sellling the raid and his excuse was that they got a free kill so couldn't complain.

But because he said he started a year ago, he's straight up lying if he says people get kicked mid kill to sell the raid.

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Not going to imply anything here but that wall of text sounds like it was written by someone who has only heard about raids secondhand. And comparing the toxicity in GW2 (no matter which content) with the stuff you see in MOBAs, let alone LoL, is pretty much the best way to lose all of your credibility.

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@RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

@Lorfi.7562 said:This is a straight lie of OP btw, if you kick a player during a raid kill/attempts it fully resets the boss.

It doesnt even reset the boss. You cant kick if anyone in your squad is in combat.

woops mb sorry wasn't sure if it resets the boss or was impossible to kick, but doesn't change the fact OP was lying about this fact cause it's still impossible.

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@Lorfi.7562 said:

@Lorfi.7562 said:This is a straight lie of OP btw, if you kick a player during a raid kill/attempts it fully resets the boss.

It doesnt even reset the boss. You cant kick if anyone in your squad is in combat.

woops mb sorry wasn't sure if it resets the boss or was impossible to kick, but doesn't change the fact OP was lying about this fact cause it's still impossible.

it do reset the boss if someone rage quit the team tho.

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@"Krzysztof.5973" said:No.

ive been playing gw2 for 5 years now, and ive seen a lot of good and bad of this gameI think you missed how strict people were when it comes to dungeon speedclears.now i see things like this all the time, people kicked for there classBecause some classes under-perform and we have so-called "meta" for pugs so we know what to expect from somebody playing their class.people kicked for joining and asking a question, even when the question was "what role do we need" witch baffled meIf squad is 9/10 on lfg and they're looking for specific build I can see that happen. Kicking others for that is just over-exaggerating.people leaving cuz they went down and no one ressed them.

I feel sorry for you if those are the people you play with.people trash talking, people blocking for asking a simple questionSome are just tiered. That's what over 3 years of raiding and only 1 wing per year does to people. Asking stupid questions in non-training runs get annoy some commanders.

You weren't paying attention if you just noticed that small portion of people in endgame content can be harsh. It's not a place for you if you expect everyone to hold hands and dance in a circle. Mistakes can cause wipe and waste time of 9 other people in the squad so some thing are expected of you. I've seen "toxic casuals" than I see people kicking from their squad for no reason.

And that, my friend, is the reason why raids and people who act like you do have no place in this friendly game.

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@sarkysek.1085 said:

@"Krzysztof.5973" said:No.

ive been playing gw2 for 5 years now, and ive seen a lot of good and bad of this gameI think you missed how strict people were when it comes to dungeon speedclears.now i see things like this all the time, people kicked for there classBecause some classes under-perform and we have so-called "meta" for pugs so we know what to expect from somebody playing their class.people kicked for joining and asking a question, even when the question was "what role do we need" witch baffled meIf squad is 9/10 on lfg and they're looking for specific build I can see that happen. Kicking others for that is just over-exaggerating.people leaving cuz they went down and no one ressed them.

I feel sorry for you if those are the people you play with.people trash talking, people blocking for asking a simple questionSome are just tiered. That's what over 3 years of raiding and only 1 wing per year does to people. Asking stupid questions in non-training runs get annoy some commanders.

You weren't paying attention if you just noticed that small portion of people in endgame content can be harsh. It's not a place for you if you expect everyone to hold hands and dance in a circle. Mistakes can cause wipe and waste time of 9 other people in the squad so some thing are expected of you. I've seen "toxic casuals" than I see people kicking from their squad for no reason.

And that, my friend, is the reason why raids and people who act like you do have no place in this friendly game.

And people who are bad have no place in a squad that just wants to clear. I see no issue there.

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@Blocki.4931 said:

@"Krzysztof.5973" said:No.

ive been playing gw2 for 5 years now, and ive seen a lot of good and bad of this gameI think you missed how strict people were when it comes to dungeon speedclears.now i see things like this all the time, people kicked for there classBecause some classes under-perform and we have so-called "meta" for pugs so we know what to expect from somebody playing their class.people kicked for joining and asking a question, even when the question was "what role do we need" witch baffled meIf squad is 9/10 on lfg and they're looking for specific build I can see that happen. Kicking others for that is just over-exaggerating.people leaving cuz they went down and no one ressed them.

I feel sorry for you if those are the people you play with.people trash talking, people blocking for asking a simple questionSome are just tiered. That's what over 3 years of raiding and only 1 wing per year does to people. Asking stupid questions in non-training runs get annoy some commanders.

You weren't paying attention if you just noticed that small portion of people in endgame content can be harsh. It's not a place for you if you expect everyone to hold hands and dance in a circle. Mistakes can cause wipe and waste time of 9 other people in the squad so some thing are expected of you. I've seen "toxic casuals" than I see people kicking from their squad for no reason.

And that, my friend, is the reason why raids and people who act like you do have no place in this friendly game.

And people who are bad have no place in a squad that just wants to clear. I see no issue there.

Agree, this game has room for both kind of players. Im leading a Raid guild that is very friendly and we have Raid trainings with 0 toxic, but when im doing my clears, i wanna do it with like minded ppl with equal skill lvl. Nothing wrong in that IMO.

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