"Just Dodge it" and Design. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

"Just Dodge it" and Design.

Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited May 14, 2019 in PVP

I know people are always going to get upset about the whole "Just dodge it" thing, but really I don't think it's bad design to have real one shots.
The biggest design issues are the context around the one shots, and what leads to something being "fine", or "unhealthy".

Three aspects I think the major issues boil down to, and that A-net should strive towards correcting, with a bit of forward thinking is an imbalance of:

A. How hard is it to land? - Does it have a tell? a long cast time? Is it hidden in stealth? What is the range? Is it a single hit? Did it have to be sufficiently set up? Or possibly channel that can be interrupted? I've always advocated for the need to read and anticipate your opponent, if there is no tell and no hand-crafted designed counter play, and you successfully avoid it; then B.

B. What are their follow up options? - Do they go back to being invis? Do they spam blocks and evades? Do they create distance? How long are these people reliably able to live after their significant whiff? Can they instantly heal to full from critical? If they can kill me in one shot, turnabout should be fair play. I should- BY DESIGN be able to reliably "punish" them, and them not just freely escape. If they can freely escape; Then C.

C. How frequently can this be done? - Is this on a long 2-3 min CD I win button? Was it a multifaceted combo that required a 30 second c/d to set up? Or can this all just be pulled off again in 10 seconds with out any risk thanks to "B"?

Maybe room for a 4th over encompassing category with "D. how many" one shot options like this can be done.

Either way there needs to be some sort of balance between this otherwise one shots become unhealthy. It's hard to say what exactly is fair and what isn't especially when trying to have a diverse cast. However, there needs to be some equality to ALL kits for those that have to much, and for those that have to little. There should be a standardized upper-limit and lower limit to what a build is capable of, and I'm certain there should be more than enough fair play between, so long as the limits are kept in mind by design. <- Watching patches since release I feel like this is not considered, and if it is, then A-net does a poor job of it or is narrow minded to context.

Now sure, one shots feels bad to less experienced players, and experts can get blind sided and frustrated, but for beginners once you overcome that curve it becomes second nature, and a vast majority of the attempts made on you are played around. And if more skilled players never got blind sided or put into a situation where they run out of options, we'd have a game of conquest where no one died, and that is even less healthy than a game where everyone's constantly dying.

Either way/tl;dr "just dodge it" is more or less valid, the issue I see is often what follows.

Comments

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Maybe add „How good is the rest of the class/build?“

    Lets look at berserker.

    It has one skill thats to strong [Arc Divider].
    The rest can be barely considered playable.

    And even with the overtuned arc divider, berserker is maybe a B tier build.

    In theory. If you could „just dodge“ arc divider, then you would fight a easy matchup after dodging it.

    Ofc that doesnt work in practice (often).

    Good Design would be when Berserker had not the most downsides in Gw2 history , while not carried by one broken skill.

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    "Do I really need to create another topic on the forum every time I die to this build?"

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    No single skill should have one shot potential. Period. Glassy builds should have potential to rush down opponents and combo them to death quickliy, but no single ability from any should be reaching close to 20k no mater how glassy they build. Heck, few skills should be hitting 10k unless they're long channels like Hundred Blades.

    If its mirage or thief nerf it to ground, if it's any other class just dodge it
    -community

    So
    Much
    This

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • ProverbsofHell.2307ProverbsofHell.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    No single skill should have one shot potential. Period. Glassy builds should have potential to rush down opponents and combo them to death quickliy, but no single ability from any should be reaching close to 20k no mater how glassy they build. Heck, few skills should be hitting 10k unless they're long channels like Hundred Blades.

    This is out of touch because you're forgetting about unkillable builds. If our damage was so kitten like that nobody would kill anyone.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    No single skill should have one shot potential. Period. Glassy builds should have potential to rush down opponents and combo them to death quickliy, but no single ability from any should be reaching close to 20k no mater how glassy they build. Heck, few skills should be hitting 10k unless they're long channels like Hundred Blades.

    If its mirage or thief nerf it to ground, if it's any other class just dodge it
    -community

    So
    Much
    This

    First time ever ... He nailed it

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    No single skill should have one shot potential. Period. Glassy builds should have potential to rush down opponents and combo them to death quickliy, but no single ability from any should be reaching close to 20k no mater how glassy they build. Heck, few skills should be hitting 10k unless they're long channels like Hundred Blades.

    Spoken from the perspective of a class that takes for granted having 20000 health.

    If this rule made true then no one should be able to single shot for 11k in damage which the base health of a number of classes. It no one can one shot for 11k then the largest hit from a single ability has to be 10k tops. If it 10k tops then classes that can count on 20k base health will only lose 50 percent health on a single hit whereas a class with 11k would lose 90 percent health. What keeps that second player alive long enough (1k health remains) to remove that other 10k health of the former? You are not going to "combo" someone to death if they have a 9 to one health advantage after each of you took a single hit.

    If I was on my warrior and knew a thief I faced could at most to 10k in damage on a single hit , I would trait for 24+k health and never die to one again as my passives/blocks and other utilities could easily recover that 10k in health before the thief could set up another such attack.

    Your proposal would make sense in a world where health normalized across all classes. It makes no sense when there an 8+ k advantage just due to profession selected.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    No single skill should have one shot potential. Period. Glassy builds should have potential to rush down opponents and combo them to death quickliy, but no single ability from any should be reaching close to 20k no mater how glassy they build. Heck, few skills should be hitting 10k unless they're long channels like Hundred Blades.

    Not only that, but no skill combination that can land all of its hits within 1 second should do anywhere close to that level of damage either. Skill stacking that leads to one button presses that do 20k in a short timeframe should be considered similar to multiple button presses that can land all of their damage in the same time frame, with adjustment based on how avoidable the move is or how visible it or its setup is. I must sound like a broken record by now, but if you're going to hit one you need to hit them all and refrain from returning to that playstyle at every new mechanic introduction.

    Rushdown is fine, but keep in mind classes have different health buffers, visibility, and active defense. There should be reasonable time to react to any given heavy damage burst before that damage is dealt.

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    No single skill should have one shot potential. Period. Glassy builds should have potential to rush down opponents and combo them to death quickliy, but no single ability from any should be reaching close to 20k no mater how glassy they build. Heck, few skills should be hitting 10k unless they're long channels like Hundred Blades.

    If its mirage or thief nerf it to ground, if it's any other class just dodge it
    -community

    So
    Much
    This

    Still sounds like bitterness, yknow There's a mechanical difference between large, untelegraphed damage and large, telegraphed damage. People generally are more aggravated by things they cannot anticipate killing them.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.