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Elementalist Healing in Dungeons and raids?

So I just started this game and made an Elementalist as I saw she could heal, but when I read through the guides on the internet, I see that everyone wants the rangers?

So is Elementalist air/water spec for healing not good enough for healing and I have to remake character to a ranger?~~~~

Comments

  • Aetatis.5418Aetatis.5418 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2019

    elementalit is a very good healer. (a lot more range via auras than ranger)
    the reason why everybody wants a ranger is the offensive boons the ranger offers, not the heal itself.
    the heal + boons + class specific offensive support makes the range so desired

    as a second healer in raids however (10man) ele is pretty good, since most buffs, the ranger pumps out, are limited to 10 people instead of 5. so stacking two is abundant.

    in terms of healing, the ele is the better healer imo. and can make 5man dungeons a breeze (fractals). the better your group however, the less healing needed and the offensive support of rangers is worth more.

    the meta changes constantly. the druid is still desired, but there are better combos (for specific encounters) already - if groups go for min-max. people are just used to proven builds and combos.
    i dont know if it is worth changing your profession right upfront. if you want to get very easy accepted into groups, druid is (still) your way to go. but
    a. for how long?
    b. what do you enjoy playing?
    if you cant stand druid, dont play it. if you are up for "more" min-maxing, play it.
    at some point in the game, you will have multiple characters (because gw2 is very alt-friendly), then you might change professions on the fly. it shouldnt bother you too much, unless you want to really really stick to one profession only.

  • Lillbryschan.3281Lillbryschan.3281 Member ✭✭
    edited May 7, 2019

    Ele has great heal but are unfortunately outclassed by other healing specs, like Druids (Ranger healer spec), because of the additional things they bring (stuff that buff group DPS for example). However, Tempest (Elementalist healer spec) are good healers in some instances, e.g. as a secondary healer in a Raid format—see this build using Water, Arcane and Tempest specs:
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_Support_Healer

    EDIT: Yeah. What Aetatis said. :) And welcome to the game btw!

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2019

    Now with the lost of GoE, unless your group has trouble with might cap some others "healers" seems quite nice rather than druid, at least as second healer or with a soulbeast. Like FB who shares 2 Signets of Wrath in condi compo, or even renegade on "pillar" bosses. But yes people are not looking for a simple "healer" they want a buffer or a boonshare too; that why druid is/was OP with spirits, GoE, mights fury prot etc to 10 allies.
    Tempest has good healing and condicleanse, but no real buff and poor stab, mights etc in middle of fight.. Auras effect are too negligible in their current state : need you to be hit, 1 or 2sec of burning, or chill ... It lacks an unique buff to elem/tempest to share, like why not a "lesser harmonious conduit" or "fresh air" ferocity bonus ...

  • So I am guessing I would have to get Hearts of Thorn DLC to be viable as a healer then ? :dizzy:

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Canadienwolf.6723 said:
    So I am guessing I would have to get Hearts of Thorn DLC to be viable as a healer then ? :disappointed:

    Dungeons dont use healer.
    Fractals are going over to renegade/guardian comp instead of druid/chrono it seems.
    And raids want 1 druid on most bosses 2 on twins if the group splits so a elementalist healer is welcome as backup if the group needs it.

  • Aetatis.5418Aetatis.5418 Member ✭✭✭

    @Canadienwolf.6723 said:
    So I am guessing I would have to get Hearts of Thorn DLC to be viable as a healer then ? :dizzy:

    oh yes. i was assuming you've got the expansion. sorry about that. without e-specs its again a different story. core rpofessions lack many things in regard of "specialization" such as healing.
    the closest thing to a healer "back then" was hammer guardian with perma protection and healing symbols (also providing stunbreak/stab when needed, reflects and minor offensive boons). but its not used anymore, because it doesnt offer enough. if it would deal a sufficient amount of damage, which it did during HoT (when PoF was not a thing), it would be still a thing - not meta but good enough, because QoL

    technically it is possible to specialize with core professions (core game), but they would do only half the job an e-spec can do.

    if you want to run raids at some point, you need HoT anyways, if i am correct. think about it - it is worth the money, even without playing raids.

  • Thokketh.7594Thokketh.7594 Member ✭✭

    If you only have core game, ele has good healing, water form staff 3 is very nice. air doesn't do much in the way of healing. arcane/water is the main healing combo. and with no elite spec you can run whatever 3rd spec you want. keep in mind that as stated above, you don't have a lot of support outside of straight healing numbers. So I don't know how many min-max groups for fractals would take you (I certainly wouldn't mind). Raids are out of my wheelhouse so I can't say much there, but from what i've gathered tempest is an ok 2nd healer. (Tempest requires HoT but so do raids, and the expansions are worth it anyway)

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2019

    You won't even be able to step into raids without owning at least one of the expansions. Wing 1-5 requires the HoT expansion, Wing 6 is bound to PoF. Owning them should be a given, plus you will be able to play all specs. Tempests will only ever be an off-healer in most cases.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019

    Well, thats a tricky question to answer after the most recent patch.

    TLDR: druid + tempest is good in a 2 chrono comp. Heal tempest has no place in fractals.

    So, in a situation where your bringing 2 chronos and 2 healers, I think the best choice is 1 druid + 1 heal tempest. A druid's stone spirit's passive is only 60% protection uptime at best for the squad, and both chronos hitting soi perfectly is around 45%. Now, the people in the druid's own squad have better protection uptime due to the active (EDIT: read my posts further down, I was misinterpreting on screen text, the active hits 10 ppl), but overall replacing the 2nd druid with a heal tempest running tempest/water/earth seems more reliable in my experience, as the tempest can upkeep about 10 party wide might, easy perma protection, quite a lot of frust aura too, and heavy heals. This is never optimal, but running 2 healers never is. If your running two healers in a two chrono comp, I think tempest is the best at doing what your looking for. Core ele however? Not nearly as good, without shouts you don't have a lot of auras to produce. Additionally, heal tempest can bring some nice utilities such as rebound, 10 man stun break, and 10 man reflect (carry the kitten out of sloth).

    However, now sc considers the meta to typically be 1 chrono, 1 druid 1 renegade 1 fire brand 1 warrior + 5 situational dps. Note, it can change a bit based on boss. Its quite difficult to imagine fitting a tempest anywhere in this comp. The first 5 classes are all responsible for doing something a heal tempest can't do, such as quickness alacrity banners etc. You could swap one of the dps for a heal tempest, and then the 5 locked in classes drop any tank/healing gear they had. But as a rule of thumb, role consolidation tends to be favorable. For example, chrono was the obvious tank for a long time because their dps was already getting lowered by boon duration being necessary. However, even with the introduction of diviners gear, the damage formulas of gw2 still favor specialization rather than hybrid builds. I.e. power is more powerful for each point of ferocity you have, and ferocity is more powerful for each point of power, additionally stacking healing modifiers multiplicatively. So, I would expect that making this substitution would still have a notable dps loss.

    As for fractals, heal tempest is a terrible idea. renegade, firebrand, and druid are the only healers I would recommend considering in fractals. Heal tempest just doesn't really offer damage buffs that can compete.

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:
    where your bringing 2 chronos and 2 healers, I think the best choice is 1 druid + 1 heal tempest.

    Why the second source of might and fury? The best choice would be heal scourge where barrier doesn't collide with druid's heals and has no meaningless offensive capabilities just like heal tempest.

    A druid's stone spirit's passive is only 60% protection uptime at best for the squad, and both chronos hitting soi perfectly is around 45%

    No. It's 80+ and with decent group its 100% on fights where druid can stick with the group.

    Dunno why people recommend garbage heals like scrapper or heal tempest. If you bring tempest, you can bring him for boons - that's when you pick boon tempest that brings might and dps and 1 slb that takes frost spirit. If your squad really needs to be carried you take heal necro that can coexist with druid.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2019

    no matter elem is good heal or not, ppl want old const meta, and if you want find party answer - yes, you should take only druid
    can you use other class? yes, you can use mostly all classes for that, but you need understand what you will be always on toxic edge after each wipe and first person to get 'kick out' from party

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2019

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    where your bringing 2 chronos and 2 healers, I think the best choice is 1 druid + 1 heal tempest.

    Why the second source of might and fury? The best choice would be heal scourge where barrier doesn't collide with druid's heals and has no meaningless offensive capabilities just like heal tempest.

    The heal tempest I described is not a source of fury, don't know what build your looking at. I specifically said water/earth/tempest. No where did I mention fire.

    A druid's stone spirit's passive is only 60% protection uptime at best for the squad, and both chronos hitting soi perfectly is around 45%

    No. It's 80+ and with decent group its 100% on fights where druid can stick with the group.

    Ok so I think your trying to use alacrity to reduce the cool down of stone spirit? But even then, its 6 / (10/1.25) = .75
    So, are you using improved alacrity? That would give 6/(10/1.5) = .9, which would allign with your claim, but improved alacrity only affects chronos.

    Furthermore, the cool down for stone spirit isn't, 'inside' the druid. I.e. its not affected by the druid's alacrity. It's affected by the stone spirit's alacrity. You can see proof of that from these 2 logs, in which I auto attacked with druid staff to heal the stone spirit for about 4 mins to get an average both with and without alacrity. Both give identical results of 57% uptime.
    https://dps.report/1TKE-20190508-113820_golem
    https://dps.report/Lngs-20190508-113211_golem

    So even if stone spirit has perfect alacrity uptime, which is highly unlikely because soi's target cap is 10 and boon prioritization doesn't tend to favor spirits over allies, your claim is still not true unless the stone spirit is somehow miraculously running chrono's improved alacrity trait. Again as stated in my first post, this is for squad wide, as the active effect of stone spirit doesn't hit 10 people.

    Dunno why people recommend garbage heals like scrapper or heal tempest. If you bring tempest, you can bring him for boons - that's when you pick boon tempest that brings might and dps and 1 slb that takes frost spirit. If your squad really needs to be carried you take heal necro that can coexist with druid.

    I mean, if the numbers you gave were accurate, I might have a different opinion as well. But they're not, so I prefer heal tempest. Additionally, you've chosen to ignore the unique effect's I stated about heal tempest such as 10 man magnetic aura, 10 man stun break, rebound, and frost aura (about 40% uptime). Also I didn't mention it but you can also have 10 man super speed which is nice at rainbow road, but yeah thats niche.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    you can't even join a raid without owning an expansion (hot for wing 1-5) (pof for wing)

    possible healer builds from least useful to most useful

    • heal scrapper
    • heal chrono
    • heal tempest and heal scourge
    • heal druid
    • heal fb
    • heal rev

    mintrel stats for beginners, switch piece by piece to:

    • harrier (+magi) for heal scrapper and heal tempest
    • harrier for heal druid and heal fb
    • marshal (+ shaman) for heal scourge
    • diviner for heal rev

    as you get more and more experienced.
    this will result in more personnal dps, at the cost of personnal survivability (that will become obsolete once you know encounters well enough)

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:
    tempest I described is not a source of fury

    Support chronos run pack rune so you only need a sliver of fury at the start of fight to get that numbers going. That we get from rebound and air #2. Again, garbage compared to druid but it's enough.
    You proposed 2 chrono squad comp - that means they're using 10man SoI all the time that pushes all the boon uptime. And there is protection coming from other sources that often cap it at 100%.
    Nice rotation btw, you do know that druid have to use active spirit skills these days? Please don't say anything about boons ever again.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    tempest I described is not a source of fury

    Support chronos run pack rune so you only need a sliver of fury at the start of fight to get that numbers going. That we get from rebound and air #2. Again, garbage compared to druid but it's enough.
    You proposed 2 chrono squad comp - that means they're using 10man SoI all the time that pushes all the boon uptime. And there is protection coming from other sources that often cap it at 100%.
    Nice rotation btw, you do know that druid have to use active spirit skills these days? Please don't say anything about boons ever again.

    I'm beginning to suspect your not actually reading my posts. I specifically mentioned in my original post that active skills on sprits don't hit 10 people.

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:
    I'm beginning to suspect your not actually reading my posts. I specifically mentioned in my original post that active skills on sprits don't hit 10 people.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nature's_Vengeance
    Now shush.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    Am I missing something here? I actually do care about having factual information. I've been taking that in game description as accurate. If its not, that would certainly change my opinion on tempest as the 2nd healer.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/575756782992097282/575756834728706058/10man.png

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:
    Am I missing something here? I actually do care about having factual information. I've been taking that in game description as accurate. If its not, that would certainly change my opinion on tempest as the 2nd healer.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/575756782992097282/575756834728706058/10man.png

    Yes it doesn't say its 10 targets on active skill. It says it on the trait.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:

    Yes it doesn't say its 10 targets on active skill. It says it on the trait.

    Ok I didn't realize that sorry, Ill test it out tonight when I raid with my static, and either confirm or deny. Frost aura is still nice, but I might agree with you on heal scourge over heal tempest as second healer in a double chrono squad. This might all be a pointless discussion, as double chrono might die. Guess we shall see.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just here to make a litte correction to the 2 people posting the expansion requirements:
    You cannot enter Wing 5 with HoT expansion only.

    Wing 1-4 --> HoT
    Wing 5+6 --> PoF

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:

    Yes it doesn't say its 10 targets on active skill. It says it on the trait.

    Ok I didn't realize that sorry, Ill test it out tonight when I raid with my static, and either confirm or deny. Frost aura is still nice, but I might agree with you on heal scourge over heal tempest as second healer in a double chrono squad. This might all be a pointless discussion, as double chrono might die. Guess we shall see.

    Ok checked it today, your right the active skills do hit 10 ppl with boons. I think the 5 target statement in the picture I linked is referring to damage done to enemies (I gotta laugh, I honestly forgot spirits did anything besides apply boons).

    Yeah, now its not clear to me that there is a runaway winner for the 2nd heal spot in a double chrono comp. Although I'm not fully sold on scourge. I'm looking over the traits, and one thing that is concerning to me for scourge is the target caps. It looks like f3 can hit 10 ppl with barrier (5 from necro and 5 from the greater shade) which seems good. Can manifest sand shade put barrier on 10 people? The sand savant trait says that a greater shade counts as three shades for related traits, and increases targets by 2. Then, desert empowerment says it gives barrier to 3 allies. So, does manifest sand shade give barrier to 15 players (like summoning 3 shades at once that all hit 5 players). Obviously my guess would be no, but then how many does it hit? Also, does the heal skill only give barrier to 5 players?

    If you happen to know the answers I would certainly appreciate it. Otherwise I'll investigate it next time I get a chance.

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2019

    @thrag.9740 said:
    If you happen to know the answers I would certainly appreciate it. Otherwise I'll investigate it next time I get a chance.

    F1 alone puts barrier on 5. F3 puts it on 10. I personally prefer running well heal since You have tons of barrier from shades and F3 anyway. But yeah Sand Flare is 5man.

  • ButterPeanut.9746ButterPeanut.9746 Member ✭✭✭

    Boon/Heal tempest is extremely strong in raids right now. Most groups would benefit by using this instead of a druid.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    may be is best heal at all, but this is like best dps deadeye - nice numbers, and also instant kick from most setups.
    I see that bigger count players non interested in best, thay need 4 years old 'meta'. Be ready for this.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:
    Heal tempest has no place in fractals.

    That's weird, I could've swore I cleared T4's and CM's with a tempest healer last week...

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    Heal tempest has no place in fractals.

    That's weird, I could've swore I cleared T4's and CM's with a tempest healer last week...

    thats weird, i'm sure i cleared last night dailies with 4 people. the guild member got a nice carry run

    therefor they should balance every fractal and future fractal around 4 guys instead of 5, because i once did it

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah, fractals are very easy and can be cleared in greens.

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    Heal tempest has no place in fractals.

    That's weird, I could've swore I cleared T4's and CM's with a tempest healer last week...

    For new players, gearing up characters to level 80 + ascended gear is actually difficult, and giving OP bad information can really dampen their in game experience. Most groups arn't looking for a heal tempest in fractals. Your anecdotal experience doesn't change the state of fractals on the whole.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 12, 2019

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    Heal tempest has no place in fractals.

    That's weird, I could've swore I cleared T4's and CM's with a tempest healer last week...

    For new players, gearing up characters to level 80 + ascended gear is actually difficult, and giving OP bad information can really dampen their in game experience. Most groups arn't looking for a heal tempest in fractals. Your anecdotal experience doesn't change the state of fractals on the whole.

    I've never seen a group turn down a heal tempest, nor have I ever seen a LFG that specifically stated special classes for healer. All LFG's I see are "LF healer". Healers are actually in high demand and the most common thing I see every group sitting at 4/5 looking for a healer.

    I've gotten renegades, FBs, tempests, and druids as healers and cleared CM's and T4's just perfectly fine with every single healer. Saying Tempest has "no place in fractals" is absurd and actually giving bad advice - it gives might, some fury, and good HPS. Fractals are easy enough you can clear them WITHOUT a healer, bringing some """"inferior""" healer isn't going to suddenly make them impossible. Stop treating this game like it's some extreme hardcore difficult game, because it's not. This "you need to always use the best and everything else is worthless" mindset is unhealthy for the game and actively makes the game worse for everyone. You saying "tempest healer has no place in fractals" when people are sitting 4/5 looking for a healer most of the time could've just stopped a few people from being a healer, thus directly harmed the game by making more people sit there in LFG because there could be people RIGHT NOW with zero interest in any healer besides tempest and they see your comment then go "oh, I guess i'll play DPS then" or something.

    Please relax on how optimal you need to be in this easy game.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    Heal tempest has no place in fractals.

    That's weird, I could've swore I cleared T4's and CM's with a tempest healer last week...

    For new players, gearing up characters to level 80 + ascended gear is actually difficult, and giving OP bad information can really dampen their in game experience. Most groups arn't looking for a heal tempest in fractals. Your anecdotal experience doesn't change the state of fractals on the whole.

    I've never seen a group turn down a heal tempest, nor have I ever seen a LFG that specifically stated special classes for healer. All LFG's I see are "LF healer". Healers are actually in high demand and the most common thing I see every group sitting at 4/5 looking for a healer.

    I've gotten renegades, FBs, tempests, and druids as healers and cleared CM's and T4's just perfectly fine with every single healer. Saying Tempest has "no place in fractals" is absurd and actually giving bad advice - it gives might, some fury, and good HPS. Fractals are easy enough you can clear them WITHOUT a healer, bringing some """"inferior""" healer isn't going to suddenly make them impossible. Stop treating this game like it's some extreme hardcore difficult game, because it's not. This "you need to always use the best and everything else is worthless" mindset is unhealthy for the game and actively makes the game worse for everyone. You saying "tempest healer has no place in fractals" when people are sitting 4/5 looking for a healer most of the time could've just stopped a few people from being a healer, thus directly harmed the game by making more people sit there in LFG because there could be people RIGHT NOW with zero interest in any healer besides tempest and they see your comment then go "oh, I guess i'll play DPS then" or something.

    Please relax on how optimal you need to be in this easy game.

    you just said yourself, you don't need a healer.

    support is "to good" in this game, and bad people get carried through support so they learn nothing
    this was esp noticable after chrono nerf, and there was not a new rotation yet to give perma boons.

    pug chronos were underperforming, and you could easy tell the good dps from the bad.

    that's why they seek after a healer 24/7, to make up for their mistakes.

    a diviner renegade has all the healing needed through heal and elite kalla

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Seriously, stop arguing about having a healer or not. Let people play how they want. Be it the meta comp without dedicated healer or others who want to have it a little bit more relaxed. I've done both strats during my CM runs and I always hated the pressure after coming home from a long and exhausting working day and the need to care for every single little dot Anet was putting in front of me to make it harder to be successful. I want to have fun, sometimes it's ok to have it more challenging but most of the time people (including me) just want to play "content".
    A discussion here about being right or wrong is stupid af. The majority of fractal players will play with a healer nowadays - for reasons. But of course there's enough room for dedicated meta speed run groups. Those groups will never dictate over the majority. It's the same thing why pug squads are using double healing in raids --> getting things done. If you want to make or have it challenging, go for it but don't pretend this is the way it has to be. That's utterly bs.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Wisty.4135Wisty.4135 Member ✭✭✭

    Heal tempest is the one I bring, and typically my groups are only required to bring druid on bosses like Gorse and MO and SOMETIMES Samarog for the entangle. Otherwise, ele's more than sufficient. Sometimes our group'll even run solo ele in lieu of another supporty off-dps (like a quick-boi burn-brand).

    Really, though it changes depending on the group and how comfortable people are with their roles and mechanics. Ele's good. Ranger's good. scourge's good. Just have fun with'em!

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    nor have I ever seen a LFG that specifically stated special classes for healer. All LFG's I see are "LF healer".

    If that's really true, if you've literally never seen an LFG that specified which healer it wanted, then your simply not looking or purposefully ignoring the reality of the situation.

    Here is the LFG 20 mins before reset 2 days ago:
    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/575756782992097282/577279827460096019/unknown.png

  • VDAC.2137VDAC.2137 Member ✭✭✭

    @thrag.9740 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    nor have I ever seen a LFG that specifically stated special classes for healer. All LFG's I see are "LF healer".

    If that's really true, if you've literally never seen an LFG that specified which healer it wanted, then your simply not looking or purposefully ignoring the reality of the situation.

    Here is the LFG 20 mins before reset 2 days ago:
    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/575756782992097282/577279827460096019/unknown.png

    This is true. I’ve saw “LF Druid” at least as often as “LF Healer” when I was pugging fractals a lot last year. I’m certainly not saying this should be the case. Will most groups who want a healer only take healer Firebrand or Druid? I honestly don’t know, but after retiring my Druid, I’ve finally decided to go with Firebrand healer for fractals, provided I enjoy it, because I want to have an easier time getting into groups and clearing T4s and CMs. Maybe I could just as well put the AR on my Tempest healer or support Scourge (yes, I’m an alt-aholic, lol).

    What bothers me more than a group looking for particular classes (rather than roles) is demanding LNHB or X essences. As others have pointed out, someone can easily be carried through to these things and they prove nothing and just seem pointlessly exclusive. Maybe I overreact, but I sold all my essences on principle (and 50 silver each).