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"Just Adapt"?... How about "Just Have Consideration"


Whiteout.1975

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Edit #2 - The Following Is Criticism Not A "Complaint"

I'm making this post on something I've found a little funny... But also pathetic over these few years of noticing. No this isn't just in GW2 or any one individual. There seems to be this somewhat fairly common phrase known as... "Just Adapt".

Far to often is this phrase thrown to the wind. Meaning before any real consideration is given. Usually in the response to someone having a different opposing opinion... And as such... "Just Adapt" is thrown their way. Simply because they hold different opinion on something... lol.

Assuming the one whom is saying it, just isn't some Fanboy in praise of everything of their Idol(s). What interest me a bit... Is when they come across something they don't like and "Just Adapt" is, yet again, carelessly thrown into their face instead. Wonder if they would recognize the irony?

Ether way... Let's all "Just Have Consideration".Thanks <3

-Edited for those that thought this was "too vague", confused or whatever

"I apologize if I came across as vague in the OP. I'll try to break it down for anyone else that ether are not getting the full picture or misunderstanding what I'm really saying.

So basically, of course we are gonna have to adapt if we are going to continue playing the game :)I am saying we shouldn't "Just Adapt" when playing the game. We should consider what we are actually adapting into before we actually do it. Otherwise the game starts to become meaningless if people are just adapting for the sake of it.

In doing so... We should not just assume what is at the other end of that adaptation process... Is always going to be without fault. It should be worthy of adaptation by at least basic moral standards firstly. So that people can make a healthy adaptation.

A somewhat recent example of this... Warclaw. I have no issues ultimately with it's existence. However, I would see people type to other's with a legit problem basically say... "Just Adapt". And this was also during when Warclaw could hop over gates much easier and before @Anet recognized it. Certain people would defend the thing up and down as if it were without "fault". Now, I didn't want to add a Warclaw example here, but it's one of the recent I can think of at this time.So IMO, No... We should not "Just Adapt" into things. We should have consideration over what we are adapting into at all times.Now, if someone chooses not to... They can go for it, but I certainly will not follow. I'll stick with having consideration."

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This reaction comes from years of hearing people complaining about the most minor things. I've seen so many people say a profession is ruined because of a nerf that killed their favorite build, and I've gone on to use that profession successfully. In an MMO, adaptation is the name of the game. They devs change what happens and adapting to it often is the game. We have to adapt to new metas. New mechanics. New content.

I had to adapt to raids being in the game, even if I don't raid. I had to adapt to not being able to get all the rewards without doing something i don't enjoy. I used to complain about it, but stopped and adapted.

Were the people wrong to tell me to adapt? Nope. Nor was I wrong to complain. The irony here is that you don't like people tell you not to complain and adapt, but you're telling people not to answer your complaint with what they feel is the real answer.

You just need to adapt to people telling you to adapt. I did. lol

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@"Vayne.8563" said:This reaction comes from years of hearing people complaining about the most minor things. I've seen so many people say a profession is ruined because of a nerf that killed their favorite build, and I've gone on to use that profession successfully. In an MMO, adaptation is the name of the game. They devs change what happens and adapting to it often is the game. We have to adapt to new metas. New mechanics. New content.

I had to adapt to raids being in the game, even if I don't raid. I had to adapt to not being able to get all the rewards without doing something i don't enjoy. I used to complain about it, but stopped and adapted.

Were the people wrong to tell me to adapt? Nope. Nor was I wrong to complain. The irony here is that you don't like people tell you not to complain and adapt, but you're telling people not to answer your complaint with what they feel is the real answer.

You just need to adapt to people telling you to adapt. I did. lol

Oh the assumptions... Haha this isn't a reaction of someone or group to me at any point in time. This is just something I've noticed throughout the years (through various reads). What is "minor" might actually end up being highly subjective btw.

Your missing part of what I originally said though... "thrown to the wind"... "Simply because they hold different opinion on something". If a game never get's criticized or maybe complained about in some manner... How does that help the game? If it cannot then look upon for it's possible mistakes.The game would have all it's possible and actual problems ignored if we simply "just adapted".

In other words... I'm saying that often "Just Adapt" is thrown around as a simple answer to things that are often not all that simple. It is often done in such a way that assumes the other side has no real value and rather encourages it to be ignored.

Now obviously someone with no real issues will simply "Just Adapt".Otherwise, "Just Have Consideration".

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In a PvP game mode where all the players are playing with the same rule set not all the breaks are going to go your way and adaptation is the only rational response. So if the OP is trying to remind everyone that having some consideration for the players who got the break next time something goes against you might make it easier for you to adapt, I'd agree . . .

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It doesn't usually come in the form of a differing or opposing opinion. It comes in the form of "X, Y, & Z" needs to be adjusted to be less effective or nerfed. This is done "without giving consideration" to how it actually affects the classes overall performance. You could literally go through thread by thread made by the OP or others agreeing with them that whatever they are told to adapt to, they are in effect saying something needs be nerfed without justification with a completely over-exaggerated claim.

An example, someone mentions Soulbeast's rapid fire is OP because it does 30K damage. This is their "differing or opposing opinion". First off, the opinion is wrong because rapid fire does not do 30K damage, or at least in any regular way. Full berserker, 25 stacks of might, attack of opportunity, and full stacks of vulnerability against a glass target won't yield a 30K rapid fire strike. So whatever they are doing to hit that hard, it seems to be a case of the stars are in aligning to make it happen. You'd be lucky to get 20K but the majority of the time it hits in the 10-15K range to someone who largely who just stands there and eats it. Realistically though, most people don't go straight glass, and a good chunk of the time they have barrier, and possibly protection. A normal WvW target (because this thread is in WvW), rapid fire hits 2k-5k. This is anything but OP, whether it's unblockable or not.

So we have people repeatedly claiming (and some agreeing) that it has to be adjusted or nerfed in some way. The question is why.. why is their opposing opinion correct or even holds merit that Anet should look at it and make adjustments? The attack the vast majority of the time does 2k-5k, and pretty much will need to be paired with unblockable to even hit the target. Why does an attack that does lackluster damage when compared to other classes attacks need to be nerfed?

Is it because the person making the over-exaggerated claim is running a necro and is largely defenseless against them? Rock, paper, scissors; a necro will need a whole lot of luck to take down a ranger that's focused them. Don't complain about a rangers rapid fire attack if you're using a class that's slow and has no reflects. Adapt, pick a different class and accept your necro class can't deal with the ranger.

Players need to adapt to what's coming at them, not expecting whatever class they're facing to be nerfed to the ground so they can handle them with whatever build they're using.

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@Whiteout.1975 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:This reaction comes from years of hearing people complaining about the most minor things. I've seen so many people say a profession is ruined because of a nerf that killed their favorite build, and I've gone on to use that profession successfully. In an MMO, adaptation is the name of the game. They devs change what happens and adapting to it often is the game. We have to adapt to new metas. New mechanics. New content.

I had to adapt to raids being in the game, even if I don't raid. I had to adapt to not being able to get all the rewards without doing something i don't enjoy. I used to complain about it, but stopped and adapted.

Were the people wrong to tell me to adapt? Nope. Nor was I wrong to complain. The irony here is that you don't like people tell you not to complain and adapt, but you're telling people not to answer your complaint with what they feel is the real answer.

You just need to adapt to people telling you to adapt. I did. lol

Oh the assumptions... Haha this isn't a reaction of someone or group to me at any point in time. This is just something I've noticed throughout the years (through various reads). What is "minor" might actually end up being highly subjective btw.

Your missing part of what I originally said though... "thrown to the wind"... "Simply because they hold different opinion on something". If a game never get's criticized or maybe complained about in some manner... How does that help the game? If it cannot then look upon for it's possible mistakes.The game would have all it's possible and actual problems ignored if we simply "just adapted".

In other words... I'm saying that often "Just Adapt" is thrown around as a simple answer to things that are often not all that simple. It is often done in such a way that
assumes
the other side has no real value and rather encourages it to be ignored.

Now obviously someone with no real issues will simply "Just Adapt".Otherwise, "Just Have Consideration".

I'm not making ANY assumptions. Not one. You're complaining about people reacting without thinking. I'm saying that the audience gives them a reason to react without thinking. It's like the boy who cried wolf. If so many people complain when they can't adapt, people will get used to saying it just like they get used to saying anything else. Your post won't change that behavior even a bit. Either they behave that way, or they think things through. A post on the forums isn't going to make a lick of difference in how someone behaves.

I'm simply illustrating the reason some people react that way, without any assumptions at all. I'm not saying it's right or fair. I'm saying it's a natural reaction to the amount of meaningless complaints we get.

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@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:It doesn't usually come in the form of a differing or opposing opinion. It comes in the form of "X, Y, & Z" needs to be adjusted to be less effective or nerfed. This is done "without giving consideration" to how it actually affects the classes overall performance.

Ok, the way your putting it here is if it's often/always premeditated to give a lack of consideration. Not true. Often times it's for a better/good cause in their mind whether or not you agree with it.

You could literally go through thread by thread made by the OP or others agreeing with them that whatever they are told to adapt to, they are in effect saying something needs be nerfed without justification with a completely over-exaggerated claim.

This in itself... is not only an exaggerated claim, but a dishonest one. I always give justification's any moment I'm able especially in light of me giving criticism. Whether or not you or someone else agree's is another story. So if you truly wish to have a genuine conversation... Please then don't spread lies/misinformation about me and (perhaps) others in a shallow attempt to strengthen your position. Otherwise I just won't waste my time the next round. Thank You.

An example, someone mentions Soulbeast's rapid fire is OP because it does 30K damage. This is their "differing or opposing opinion". First off, the opinion is wrong because rapid fire does not do 30K damage, or at least in any regular way. Full berserker, 25 stacks of might, attack of opportunity, and full stacks of vulnerability against a glass target won't yield a 30K rapid fire strike. So whatever they are doing to hit that hard, it seems to be a case of the stars are in aligning to make it happen. You'd be lucky to get 20K but the majority of the time it hits in the 10-15K range to someone who largely who just stands there and eats it. Realistically though, most people don't go straight glass, and a good chunk of the time they have barrier, and possibly protection. A normal WvW target (because this thread is in WvW), rapid fire hits 2k-5k. This is anything but OP, whether it's unblockable or not.

So we have people repeatedly claiming (and some agreeing) that it has to be adjusted or nerfed in some way. The question is why.. why is their opposing opinion correct or even holds merit that Anet should look at it and make adjustments? The attack the vast majority of the time does 2k-5k, and pretty much will need to be paired with unblockable to even hit the target. Why does an attack that does lackluster damage when compared to other classes attacks need to be nerfed?

Is it because the person making the over-exaggerated claim is running a necro and is largely defenseless against them? Rock, paper, scissors; a necro will need a whole lot of luck to take down a ranger that's focused them. Don't complain about a rangers rapid fire attack if you're using a class that's slow and has no reflects. Adapt, pick a different class and accept your necro class can't deal with the ranger.

I agree. People should try to adapt.I'm saying people shouldn't simply "just adapt". And I'll tell you the difference...

If it were true to "just adapt" always. Then any balance changes made to the game etc. would automatically 100% justified because we should all "just adapt". Which in turn would ignore potential issues with the game whether or not people are in agreement to them.Now unless they're, like I said before, "some Fanboy in praise of everything of their Idol(s)". Then they would be able to see this difference and see why this would be a problem.

Players need to adapt to what's coming at them, not expecting whatever class they're facing to be nerfed to the ground so they can handle them with whatever build they're using.

Player's should try to adapt. Also, I agree; that expectation is ridiculous... Because it's not reasonable to have "be all, do all build". Doesn't mean criticism (talking in general) is always/automatically unjustified simply because anyone else disagrees with it.

If the simply stated "Just Adapt" is the cure. Then Anet not only becomes immune to criticism... No real care or consideration for the game can be given, because we should simply "Just Adapt" without a second thought. No Thank You.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:This reaction comes from years of hearing people complaining about the most minor things. I've seen so many people say a profession is ruined because of a nerf that killed their favorite build, and I've gone on to use that profession successfully. In an MMO, adaptation is the name of the game. They devs change what happens and adapting to it often is the game. We have to adapt to new metas. New mechanics. New content.

I had to adapt to raids being in the game, even if I don't raid. I had to adapt to not being able to get all the rewards without doing something i don't enjoy. I used to complain about it, but stopped and adapted.

Were the people wrong to tell me to adapt? Nope. Nor was I wrong to complain. The irony here is that you don't like people tell you not to complain and adapt, but you're telling people not to answer your complaint with what they feel is the real answer.

You just need to adapt to people telling you to adapt. I did. lol

Oh the assumptions... Haha this isn't a reaction of someone or group to me at any point in time. This is just something I've noticed throughout the years (through various reads). What is "minor" might actually end up being highly subjective btw.

Your missing part of what I originally said though... "thrown to the wind"... "Simply because they hold different opinion on something". If a game never get's criticized or maybe complained about in some manner... How does that help the game? If it cannot then look upon for it's possible mistakes.The game would have all it's possible and actual problems ignored if we simply "just adapted".

In other words... I'm saying that often "Just Adapt" is thrown around as a simple answer to things that are often not all that simple. It is often done in such a way that
assumes
the other side has no real value and rather encourages it to be ignored.

Now obviously someone with no real issues will simply "Just Adapt".Otherwise, "Just Have Consideration".

I'm not making ANY assumptions. Not one. You're complaining about people reacting without thinking. I'm saying that the audience gives them a reason to react without thinking. It's like the boy who cried wolf. If so many people complain when they can't adapt, people will get used to saying it just like they get used to saying anything else. Your post won't change that behavior even a bit. Either they behave that way, or they think things through. A post on the forums isn't going to make a lick of difference in how someone behaves.

Here is your assumption since you're missing it...

@Vayne.8563 said: "The irony here is that you don't like people tell you not to complain and adapt, but you're telling people not to answer your complaint with what they feel is the real answer."

I told you already this is based of my reading over the years. Yet you still insist that people have previously told me to "Just Adapt" in some magical point in time in the past. As a way of suggesting that this is what this is about. Lol... no. Also, people can tell me not to "complain" if that's how they see it. My intentions are always to "criticize" not complain for the sake of it.

Right, I get what you saying. Why they respond the way they do... However... That response that they give is based on their own idea that what is being brought to their attention, is purely wrong. Ether because it is something not to their liking or they just don't understand whatever it maybe. I'm not saying ether side is right or wrong ether... I'm just saying to have consideration that you/they too might in fact be "wrong"... And should not just write it off as "Just Adapt". Similar to "Just Dodge" mentality.

Lastly, I'm not expecting or telling anyone to change their behavior. Not sure why you think this. I'm just bringing an funny issue into a spotlight and talking about it.

I'm simply illustrating the reason some people react that way, without any assumptions at all. I'm not saying it's right or fair. I'm saying it's a natural reaction to the amount of meaningless complaints we get.

So this is the issue... "meaningless" complaints. I'm suggesting that at least some of what might be viewed "meaningless" or of lower value... Just might not be. Hence, "Just Have Consideration".

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Consideration is a unrealistic expectations from people of today. Just adapt,get gud and just dodge are all just troll replies by either players trying to justify or defend their broken spec/build or are posting just get gud or l2p on threads that players are either complaining about a nerf or are asking for a buff on a class they have a bias dislike for. It's always been this way and will never change, certainly not for the better lol.

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@"Vayne.8563" said:This reaction comes from years of hearing people complaining about the most minor things. I've seen so many people say a profession is ruined because of a nerf that killed their favorite build, and I've gone on to use that profession successfully. In an MMO, adaptation is the name of the game. They devs change what happens and adapting to it often is the game. We have to adapt to new metas. New mechanics. New content.

I had to adapt to raids being in the game, even if I don't raid. I had to adapt to not being able to get all the rewards without doing something i don't enjoy. I used to complain about it, but stopped and adapted.

Were the people wrong to tell me to adapt? Nope. Nor was I wrong to complain. The irony here is that you don't like people tell you not to complain and adapt, but you're telling people not to answer your complaint with what they feel is the real answer.

You just need to adapt to people telling you to adapt. I did. lol

As someone in a similar boat who usually doesn't mind adapting to change ( I wish more things would be changed in terms of balance and change is usually fun ) I can agree, but I also tend to be stubborn with certain things. Sometimes, things change for the worse, and someone has to point it out and complain. Always saying "just adapt" isn't healthy for the overall game if you don't consider what the changes mean.

I argue for more change, and therefore more adaptation by players. Could even be game mechanics that are old and need to be changed/spiced up. But good change.

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@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Consideration is a unrealistic expectations from people of today. Just adapt,get gud and just dodge are all just troll replies by either players trying to justify or defend their broken spec/build or are posting just get gud or l2p on threads that players are either complaining about a nerf or are asking for a buff on a class they have a bias dislike for. It's always been this way and will never change, certainly not for the better lol.

So when the Warriors dominate the NBA, the response from other teams shouldn't be to adapt their strategies?

"Just adapt" isn't a troll response. It's the rational response to competition.

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@Chaba.5410 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Consideration is a unrealistic expectations from people of today. Just adapt,get gud and just dodge are all just troll replies by either players trying to justify or defend their broken spec/build or are posting just get gud or l2p on threads that players are either complaining about a nerf or are asking for a buff on a class they have a bias dislike for. It's always been this way and will never change, certainly not for the better lol.

So when the Warriors dominate the NBA, the response from other teams shouldn't be to adapt their strategies?

"Just adapt" isn't a troll response. It's the rational response to competition.

I rational response that can be used in a rational discussion yes true but also a irrational response to irrational discussions that are the norm here. As a example 3 out of9 classes could be blatantly over performing and dominating all other specs and one could just say adapt in response :) or instead of nerfing permastealth DE's arenet could have buffed their stealth and damage more and us thieves could have simply replied that all the players just need to adapt or get gud lol

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@Whiteout.1975 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:This reaction comes from years of hearing people complaining about the most minor things. I've seen so many people say a profession is ruined because of a nerf that killed their favorite build, and I've gone on to use that profession successfully. In an MMO, adaptation is the name of the game. They devs change what happens and adapting to it often is the game. We have to adapt to new metas. New mechanics. New content.

I had to adapt to raids being in the game, even if I don't raid. I had to adapt to not being able to get all the rewards without doing something i don't enjoy. I used to complain about it, but stopped and adapted.

Were the people wrong to tell me to adapt? Nope. Nor was I wrong to complain. The irony here is that you don't like people tell you not to complain and adapt, but you're telling people not to answer your complaint with what they feel is the real answer.

You just need to adapt to people telling you to adapt. I did. lol

Oh the assumptions... Haha this isn't a reaction of someone or group to me at any point in time. This is just something I've noticed throughout the years (through various reads). What is "minor" might actually end up being highly subjective btw.

Your missing part of what I originally said though... "thrown to the wind"... "Simply because they hold different opinion on something". If a game never get's criticized or maybe complained about in some manner... How does that help the game? If it cannot then look upon for it's possible mistakes.The game would have all it's possible and actual problems ignored if we simply "just adapted".

In other words... I'm saying that often "Just Adapt" is thrown around as a simple answer to things that are often not all that simple. It is often done in such a way that
assumes
the other side has no real value and rather encourages it to be ignored.

Now obviously someone with no real issues will simply "Just Adapt".Otherwise, "Just Have Consideration".

Vayne didn't make assumptions... Having said that, telling players to respond to things in a particular way will never happen. And not sure why this post is in the wvw section, or how it improves the current state of wvw or the game.

Edit- You should take your own advice and "have consideration" for other readers by only posting things that move the game in a better direction, or that discuss game elements, not take up space telling others how they should respond because you have issues with someone typing "just adapt".

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