Nerf Scrapper, Holosmith and Soulbeast/boonbeast already... — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Nerf Scrapper, Holosmith and Soulbeast/boonbeast already...

These mainly are out of control way too strong you can find multiple forum post or players on stream, ingame just complaining and asking for nerfs on these. I suggest you get a touch on these before doing any other balance changes.

Comments

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    If you’re gonna make a tradeoff, nerf the Soul Beast and the Scrapper. These specs have no actualy trade offs, just point blanks imba buffs.

    scrapper is on the chopping block and a few others too

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    In the case of elite specializations like druid, herald, chronomancer, berserker, or scrapper, this type of trade-off isn't possible because the specialization adds a completely new ability. With this update, we're targeting a few elite specializations to receive trade-offs, and we expect to continue doing this in future updates.

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • dodgerrule.8739dodgerrule.8739 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019

    Those classes are easy to kill. Don’t burst them down and you will be fine. Their abilities all have long cooldowns.

    Soul beast does have a trade off of no extra pet damage when in beast mode

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Designed to orverperform.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    If you’re gonna make a tradeoff, nerf the Soul Beast and the Scrapper. These specs have no actualy trade offs, just point blanks imba buffs.

    Scrapper trade off is no damage. High dps specs and stuns can demolish scrapper in seconds. Sic em ranger can kill scrapper on basically every other skill, warrior, reaper stun and dps, one shot Chrono, rev etc etc. It also has very low mobility. What about super speed? You only getting it if you pop your gyro. N it's 5 seconds per gyro. No scrapper is gonna pop both gyros and run to node. U will be a sitting duck. Literally every other classes movement speed or just swiftness is faster.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2019

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    Make SB choose one pet, no one should be able to be super glass cannon and super tanky whenever they wish to, not to mention the 5+ permanent boons all the time. Else, don't allow them to heal pets when getting out of the mode.

    For Holosmith, the issue I face is how they can keep up way too much boons and have lots of mobility while hitting like a truck as they CC you to oblivian. Maybe increase CD on class mechanic.

    Scrapper, one of the two classes I can't kill (I see you double EP players) too tanky, good damage, it's just too much.

    Though thief is not so cool, but I had a duel with a thief that literally travels half the map when hit and abuses daze, took 10min tilp we both agreed on a draw.

    One thing to consider as well, invulnerability stacking Spellbreakers, really disgusting fighting this spec, all I see is 0, blocked or green numbers. I know warrior is at a not so good spot but this way of stacking immunity is actually stupid.

    Where are you getting good damage from on a scrapper? You literally have to sit there and face tank for 20 seconds before you can remotely die. You would have to be so bad to die from scrapper damage. The only time a scrapper can do dmg is when it changes it's heal traits to hammer damage. But then it won't be as tanky.

    I guess if you are complaining about weak sauce dp thief. It explains everything lol.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2019

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    Make SB choose one pet, no one should be able to be super glass cannon and super tanky whenever they wish to, not to mention the 5+ permanent boons all the time. Else, don't allow them to heal pets when getting out of the mode.

    For Holosmith, the issue I face is how they can keep up way too much boons and have lots of mobility while hitting like a truck as they CC you to oblivian. Maybe increase CD on class mechanic.

    Scrapper, one of the two classes I can't kill (I see you double EP players) too tanky, good damage, it's just too much.

    Though thief is not so cool, but I had a duel with a thief that literally travels half the map when hit and abuses daze, took 10min tilp we both agreed on a draw.

    One thing to consider as well, invulnerability stacking Spellbreakers, really disgusting fighting this spec, all I see is 0, blocked or green numbers. I know warrior is at a not so good spot but this way of stacking immunity is actually stupid.

    Where are you getting good damage from on a scrapper? You literally have to sit there and face tank for 20 seconds before you can remotely die. You would have to be so bad to die from scrapper damage. The only time a scrapper can do dmg is when it changes it's heal traits to hammer damage. But then it won't be as tanky.

    I guess if you are complaining about weak sauce dp thief. It explains everything lol.

    First of, you need to clearly understand that there is a difference between good DPS and good damage. If you can't see a difference between both, then you clearly won't understand my point.

    For d/p thief, I don't complain about anythig except how you can be so mobile and deal good damage with shadowsteps. It depends on class though, I am speaking from a weaver PoV, which clearly shows the lack of mobility and burst as others do, surely a one-trick full DPS herald can just Sword 3 and the thief drops dead, but that's not my point.

    Lastly, I see using the skill level in such arguments already shows how lacking someone can be as they didn't state my point wrong, just went on with mockery and down-grading. Don't mean to be rude, but at least be professional when making fun of someone, if the points were valid still.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2019

    @Auburner.6945 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    Make SB choose one pet, no one should be able to be super glass cannon and super tanky whenever they wish to, not to mention the 5+ permanent boons all the time. Else, don't allow them to heal pets when getting out of the mode.

    For Holosmith, the issue I face is how they can keep up way too much boons and have lots of mobility while hitting like a truck as they CC you to oblivian. Maybe increase CD on class mechanic.

    Scrapper, one of the two classes I can't kill (I see you double EP players) too tanky, good damage, it's just too much.

    Though thief is not so cool, but I had a duel with a thief that literally travels half the map when hit and abuses daze, took 10min tilp we both agreed on a draw.

    One thing to consider as well, invulnerability stacking Spellbreakers, really disgusting fighting this spec, all I see is 0, blocked or green numbers. I know warrior is at a not so good spot but this way of stacking immunity is actually stupid.

    Where are you getting good damage from on a scrapper? You literally have to sit there and face tank for 20 seconds before you can remotely die. You would have to be so bad to die from scrapper damage. The only time a scrapper can do dmg is when it changes it's heal traits to hammer damage. But then it won't be as tanky.

    I guess if you are complaining about weak sauce dp thief. It explains everything lol.

    First of, you need to clearly understand that there is a difference between good DPS and good damage. If you can't see a difference between both, then you clearly won't understand my point.

    For d/p thief, I don't complain about anythig except how you can be so mobile and deal good damage with shadowsteps. It depends on class though, I am speaking from a weaver PoV, which clearly shows the lack of mobility and burst as others do, surely a one-trick full DPS herald can just Sword 3 and the thief drops dead, but that's not my point.

    Lastly, I see using the skill level in such arguments already shows how lacking someone can be as they didn't state my point wrong, just went on with mockery and down-grading. Don't mean to be rude, but at least be professional when making fun of someone, if the points were valid still.

    If you are getting hit by a scrapper in the first place u shldnt... It's basic mechanics.... Even then Scrapper dmg doesn't go past even 2k. Skill 2 is the biggest dmg in conjunction with skill 5 with causes brutal bolts might hit a light armor class for 3k. Even then it's a giant circle with a circle bubble. If u can't dodge a slow animation that has a giant ring and a giant circular bubble... I don't know what to say..if u r hurt by a scrapper... My point was. So what if it does dmg... It's basically nothing. U want it to do zero? It's basically so low u have to stand still on him to die. If that's not a learn to play issue I don't know what is.

    Thief dmg?The damage is not good. Back stab does 6k... The only time a backstab is good is if you take assassin sig which then removes a slot for stun break. it's not just herald. Every class does far more dmg than a 1 hit gimmick. Sic em ranger on zerk amulet has the same hp as a Marauder thief. But does 35k bursts. 6k auto attacks. It's auto attack is basically stronger than backstab

    Ok it seems you are instantly offended. There's no point in this discussion lol. Since u think 500-2k dmg by a scrapper is strong. N u r complaining about it. When literally it doesn't do any damage. The only time u would really consider that to be high is if you are full glass. Then that's your own fault.

    Go on meta battle. Go look at builds. Understand neither of the builds you are complaining about is meta. Go on twitch Watch higher level games. See that no 1 is having your problems at that lvl.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Auburner.6945 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    Make SB choose one pet, no one should be able to be super glass cannon and super tanky whenever they wish to, not to mention the 5+ permanent boons all the time. Else, don't allow them to heal pets when getting out of the mode.

    For Holosmith, the issue I face is how they can keep up way too much boons and have lots of mobility while hitting like a truck as they CC you to oblivian. Maybe increase CD on class mechanic.

    Scrapper, one of the two classes I can't kill (I see you double EP players) too tanky, good damage, it's just too much.

    Though thief is not so cool, but I had a duel with a thief that literally travels half the map when hit and abuses daze, took 10min tilp we both agreed on a draw.

    One thing to consider as well, invulnerability stacking Spellbreakers, really disgusting fighting this spec, all I see is 0, blocked or green numbers. I know warrior is at a not so good spot but this way of stacking immunity is actually stupid.

    Where are you getting good damage from on a scrapper? You literally have to sit there and face tank for 20 seconds before you can remotely die. You would have to be so bad to die from scrapper damage. The only time a scrapper can do dmg is when it changes it's heal traits to hammer damage. But then it won't be as tanky.

    I guess if you are complaining about weak sauce dp thief. It explains everything lol.

    First of, you need to clearly understand that there is a difference between good DPS and good damage. If you can't see a difference between both, then you clearly won't understand my point.

    For d/p thief, I don't complain about anythig except how you can be so mobile and deal good damage with shadowsteps. It depends on class though, I am speaking from a weaver PoV, which clearly shows the lack of mobility and burst as others do, surely a one-trick full DPS herald can just Sword 3 and the thief drops dead, but that's not my point.

    Lastly, I see using the skill level in such arguments already shows how lacking someone can be as they didn't state my point wrong, just went on with mockery and down-grading. Don't mean to be rude, but at least be professional when making fun of someone, if the points were valid still.

    If you are getting hit by a scrapper in the first place u shldnt... It's basic mechanics.... Even then Scrapper dmg doesn't go past even 2k. Skill 2 is the biggest dmg in conjunction with skill 5 with causes brutal bolts might hit a light armor class for 3k. Even then it's a giant circle with a circle bubble. If u can't dodge a slow animation that has a giant ring and a giant circular bubble... I don't know what to say..if u r hurt by a scrapper... My point was. So what if it does dmg... It's basically nothing. U want it to do zero? It's basically so low u have to stand still on him to die. If that's not a learn to play issue I don't know what is.

    Thief dmg?The damage is not good. Back stab does 6k... The only time a backstab is good is if you take assassin sig which then removes a slot for stun break. it's not just herald. Every class does far more dmg than a 1 hit gimmick. Sic em ranger on zerk amulet has the same hp as a Marauder thief. But does 35k bursts. 6k auto attacks. It's auto attack is basically stronger than backstab

    Ok it seems you are instantly offended. There's no point in this discussion lol. Since u think 500-2k dmg by a scrapper is strong. N u r complaining about it. When literally it doesn't do any damage. The only time u would really consider that to be high is if you are full glass. Then that's your own fault.

    Go on meta battle. Go look at builds. Understand neither of the builds you are complaining about is meta. Go on twitch Watch higher level games. See that no 1 is having your problems at that lvl.

    Scrapper's good damage isn't just a big giant circle, that skill is nothing but Static Field of Staff, no on would stand in it... or get stunned by it. You know it isn't one skill, you know it has follow up, also, you know that it can counter boonbeast and LB SB, which you are talking about how dumb they are. In fact I like fighting boonbeast and LB SB on weaver, they are considered of the easiest to fight for me, unlike most complains, so should I now run into the forums and tell everyone L2P like you do, I can beat the unbeatable on the worst class in duels already (shall we have a poll on which is worst, we all know the answer already). But you don't see me using the L2P card, just like you did. You can go Marauder mix and pop up Elixir Gun (maybe Elixir U as well) with some Gyros and you're already set to sustain and win most duels, because the class is good, not because the players is top tier.

    I just got hit by an 11k backstab while on a 1400 toughness weaver while chilling with my roaming group, so it's not really 6k as you say, actually you give too much to make up such play, though I am against oneshots because it's unhealthy for the game. However, I didn't mention backstab in the whole argument, I only mentioned crazy mobility with good damage, which is clearly a dueling build, not backstb one-trick. Now you using Sic'Em SB as a fortifying point, but I already spoke about how dumb it is in the very first point of my very first comment. And for every class that does far more damage, have you fought a bunker weaver before? kitten hits like noodle, you know camp NPCs hit harder, I can stay afk and they won't kill me while already running full glass (full zerk to make it clearer) staff backline.

    For going on metbattle and twitch, you know, I don't make something out of streamers as many do, also builds are situational, in LoL, a single 2min farm item can change the whole pace of the game, so don't make fun of small things. I played LoL for 8 years, and I was still able to pick mistakes on no.1 player in the world... ask any LoL player, they will already tell you he's a god, even ask pros on his same league level, they were like watching low elos trying to get promoted, and he approved of them as mistakes, so the gods we try to create of streamers, is clearly wrong. Fame doesn't all of a sudden increase your skill level to over 9000. You know, a LoL streamer at the highest rank on main account, wasn't able to pass low elo on an alt, in fact they went on a 23 lose streak, but they had 20k+ viewers at that time, so this also proves how we make streamers so big. I don't mean to say they are bad, there are better, same level and maybe worse than I? Sure, 8 billion humans in the world, why should one be considered top level because of fame?

    And for salt, nah, not my style, begone of it already. What's the point of whining and mocking others only for pixelated figures?

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭✭

    PvP high rated players already found out you either let the scrapper sit on node and win the rest of the map since it can't freely move around or just +1 and it's over. Don't get me wrong, it's a great bunker but a bunker centric meta hasn't been a thing for a while.

    I think you gotta start thinking outside the box.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    Those classes are easy to kill. Don’t burst them down and you will be fine. Their abilities all have long cooldowns.

    Soul beast does have a trade off of no extra pet damage when in beast mode

    Yeah and the bonus of all the pet buffs if the pet is merged with them.
    I main ranger and I know soulbeast doesn't really have a down side.
    Pets are unreliable and mainly live for aggro sponging and the F2 (which are often lackluster).
    Replace petswap with beastmode and soulbeast has a good trade off.

  • ChronoPinoyX.7923ChronoPinoyX.7923 Member ✭✭✭

    Soulbeast just outright needs to remove the 2nd pet slot and I'd be happy with it. And of course, core ranger should get an F5 like Rev did with F2

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    Those classes are easy to kill. Don’t burst them down and you will be fine. Their abilities all have long cooldowns.

    Soul beast does have a trade off of no extra pet damage when in beast mode

    That is not a tradeoff bcs you can just choose to not go into beast mode.

    // Yanim

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:
    Soulbeast just outright needs to remove the 2nd pet slot and I'd be happy with it.

    k, fine

    And of course, core ranger should get an F5 like Rev did with F2

    lol, no

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Ferus.3165Ferus.3165 Member ✭✭✭

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    If you’re gonna make a tradeoff, nerf the Soul Beast and the Scrapper. These specs have no actualy trade offs, just point blanks imba buffs.

    hm soulbeast actually has a fairly big tradeoff.... as long as you are merged with your pet for extra stats you completely lose your pet with all its abilites.

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Soulbeast tradeoff:
    Soulbeast can only use one pet, pet swap synergy traits are procced by merge/unmerge.
    Or
    Soulbeast can no longer merge if the pet is dead; so you actually have a reason to attack and kill the pet to make him lose merge synergy.
    Or both.

    Holosmith tradeoff:
    Photon forge mode cd raised to 10 seconds.
    To activate photon forge you need to max "mech force" built by doing damage and using engineer kits to par to similar specs like reaper berserker druid.
    So you remove the spammable component of it.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    How about this: allow Soulbeast to heal their pets by 5% of damage dealt while the pet is alive. If the pet falls, you'll lose the ability to merge with it, which means that the class will keep its pet swap, but now pet swapping will be a must. If a pet has fallen, it now heals by 40% of outgoing damage, whether you're using the same pet, or swapped to the other, as the trait proc's 5% for the live and 40% for the fallen.

    Let's say the pet has 20k hp. You will deal something like 3k per hit, 1200 healing per hit for a fallen pet, which is ~17 hits before the pet is back up, no matter the pet currently in use.

    This is a raw example, numbers could be changed.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • migcun.5240migcun.5240 Member ✭✭
    edited May 7, 2019

    @Fantasylife.7981 said:
    These mainly are out of control way too strong you can find multiple forum post or players on stream, ingame just complaining and asking for nerfs on these. I suggest you get a touch on these before doing any other balance changes.

    Hello there :)

    Please notice that I read your post and the comments above, as you can see many players disagree and with good reasons, scrapper is not over power, but playable again, it's role is still finding the right path but is going somewhere now.

    I found your post a total disgrace !

    Before you post an ask for a nerf , remember that this kind of attitude result on a class destruction, and scrapper was destroyed for years until march 2019 !

    Here , I found a very constructive post on engineer forum , I hope it helps you to learn how to play against scrapper :)

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    Dealing with scrapper isn't actually all that hard when you know their vulnerabilities, particularly the common "tank" build you see nowadays.

    1. Low access to stability. The only guaranteed stability that scrapper has comes from defense field. Once you see that stability disappear, CC to your heart's content. Most scrapper builds only have one stunbreak, which is also on a fairly long cooldown.
    2. Spike damage is very effective when bulwark gyro is on cooldown. You can tell bulwark gyro has been used because you'll see a massive surge in barrier. Once that barrier is gone, go to town on DPS.
    3. Condi, currently, doesn't do much against scrapper. Sorry.
    4. They should be your last target. Focus on high damage targets first, and leave the scrapper for last.
    5. Scrapper isn't super mobile. You have to burn gyros to get superspeed, or burn lightning field to get swiftness. If you have two points, don't bother with attacking the scrapper on the other point. Just rotate around it so that the enemy team is always 4v5.
  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Oh you mean like I have to think before I post a complaining post? Why? I will just make a post and think after. Or not.
    P.S. you CAN beat scrapper. The problem is that you don't want to know HOW and just complain.

  • Rico.6873Rico.6873 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2019

    Scrapper sucks in Fractals/raiding its only strong point is in WvW and in pvp
    Not much in open world PVE...

    And if you're gonna nerf holo, the engineer will have nothing for fractals/raiding and open world content...

  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @migcun.5240 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Soulbeast tradeoff:
    Soulbeast can only use one pet, pet swap synergy traits are procced by merge/unmerge.
    Or
    Soulbeast can no longer merge if the pet is dead; so you actually have a reason to attack and kill the pet to make him lose merge synergy.
    Or both.

    Holosmith tradeoff:
    Photon forge mode cd raised to 10 seconds.
    To activate photon forge you need to max "mech force" built by doing damage and using engineer kits to par to similar specs like reaper berserker druid.
    So you remove the spammable component of it.

    Hello there :)

    Please notice that I read your post and the comments above, as you can see many players disagree and with good reasons, scrapper is not over power, but playable again, it's role is still finding the right path but is going somewhere now.

    I found your post a total disgrace !

    Before you post an ask for a nerf , remember that this kind of attitude result on a class destruction, and scrapper was destroyed for years until march 2019 !

    Here , I found a very constructive post on engineer forum , I hope it helps you to learn how to play against** scrapper** :)

    I bolded words in my post and yours.
    You quote my post talking of scrapper when my nerfs suggestions were only about soulbeast and holosmith

    Maybe some reading problems we have here?

    Don't quote if you don't even read please, thanks.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Holosmith tradeoff:
    Photon forge mode cd raised to 10 seconds.
    To activate photon forge you need to max "mech force" built by doing damage and using engineer kits to par to similar specs like reaper berserker druid.
    So you remove the spammable component of it.

    Will you give holosmith another health bar too?

    :smile:

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2019

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Holosmith tradeoff:
    Photon forge mode cd raised to 10 seconds.
    To activate photon forge you need to max "mech force" built by doing damage and using engineer kits to par to similar specs like reaper berserker druid.
    So you remove the spammable component of it.

    Will you give holosmith another health bar too?

    :smile:

    Does berserker or druid have another healthbar?
    I know it's drastic, you are an engi main, seriously what's the tradeoff to play holo over core engi?
    It's simply an easier stronger upgrade, and holo mode is way too spammable especially with the remove heat trait.
    Maybe rework completely that trait so you are forced to leave holo mode sooner?
    A cd raise is necessary in pvp and wvw, for pve they can keep it.
    And P.S. I am not complaining of core skills or interactions like many people do, instead of nerfing holo they move the attention to core skills or traits which are op when running holo, but I'm directly focusing holosmith only.

    But what you're asking is incongruous with the heat mechanic. Are you telling us to build the heat we then burn with PF? Then you're throwing out the whole overheat mechanic. Or are you adding a third bar? I don't understand how what you're proposing fits into the current systems.

    The trouble is you're over-complicating potential solutions -- if the problem is too much sustain, you can nerf holo's sustain pretty easily by nerfing heat therapy, changing traits' power, and/or increasing heat output for skills. If the problem is too much damage, it's pretty self-explanatory how to deal with it. Adding new mechanics to further complicate things makes little to no sense.

    And there are tradeoffs that exist already. You could make them more severe to increase the risk. Like, you can't exit PF for 5 seconds after activating right now. You could extend that to 10 secs to increase the risk even further. You could make it take up more toolbelt slots than it does now (it currently occupies f5).

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2019

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Holosmith tradeoff:
    Photon forge mode cd raised to 10 seconds.
    To activate photon forge you need to max "mech force" built by doing damage and using engineer kits to par to similar specs like reaper berserker druid.
    So you remove the spammable component of it.

    Will you give holosmith another health bar too?

    :smile:

    Does berserker or druid have another healthbar?
    I know it's drastic, you are an engi main, seriously what's the tradeoff to play holo over core engi?
    It's simply an easier stronger upgrade, and holo mode is way too spammable especially with the remove heat trait.
    Maybe rework completely that trait so you are forced to leave holo mode sooner?
    A cd raise is necessary in pvp and wvw, for pve they can keep it.
    And P.S. I am not complaining of core skills or interactions like many people do, instead of nerfing holo they move the attention to core skills or traits which are op when running holo, but I'm directly focusing holosmith only.

    But what you're asking is incongruous with the heat mechanic. Are you telling us to build the heat we then burn with PF? Then you're throwing out the whole overheat mechanic. Or are you adding a third bar? I don't understand how what you're proposing fits into the current systems.

    The trouble is you're over-complicating potential solutions -- if the problem is too much sustain, you can nerf holo's sustain pretty easily by nerfing heat therapy, changing traits' power, and/or increasing heat output for skills. If the problem is too much damage, it's pretty self-explanatory how to deal with it. Adding new mechanics to further complicate things makes little to no sense.

    And there are tradeoffs that exist already. You could make them more severe to increase the risk. Like, you can't exit PF for 5 seconds after activating right now. You could extend that to 10 secs to increase the risk even further. You could make it take up more toolbelt slots than it does now (it currently occupies f5).

    So what about a cd raise to match up other transformations?
    The uptime on holo mode is too high for what it bring to the table.
    If you play holo all day and switch to core you immediately feel you are missing a piece of your body, and that's a super direct upgrade.
    They doesn't seem to want to nerf damage or sustain, so a cd raise would be great.

    That's easy enough to do by increasing the heat generation. It forces holo out of PF faster. Alternatively you could slow heat loss, but that would take longer for most people to relearn and you'd have to rebalance heat therapy and laser's edge for that.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • migcun.5240migcun.5240 Member ✭✭
    edited May 7, 2019

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @migcun.5240 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Soulbeast tradeoff:
    Soulbeast can only use one pet, pet swap synergy traits are procced by merge/unmerge.
    Or
    Soulbeast can no longer merge if the pet is dead; so you actually have a reason to attack and kill the pet to make him lose merge synergy.
    Or both.

    Holosmith tradeoff:
    Photon forge mode cd raised to 10 seconds.
    To activate photon forge you need to max "mech force" built by doing damage and using engineer kits to par to similar specs like reaper berserker druid.
    So you remove the spammable component of it.

    Hello there :)

    Please notice that I read your post and the comments above, as you can see many players disagree and with good reasons, scrapper is not over power, but playable again, it's role is still finding the right path but is going somewhere now.

    I found your post a total disgrace !

    Before you post an ask for a nerf , remember that this kind of attitude result on a class destruction, and scrapper was destroyed for years until march 2019 !

    Here , I found a very constructive post on engineer forum , I hope it helps you to learn how to play against** scrapper** :)

    I bolded words in my post and yours.
    You quote my post talking of scrapper when my nerfs suggestions were only about soulbeast and holosmith

    Maybe some reading problems we have here?

    Don't quote if you don't even read please, thanks.

    Sorry, probably I scrolled down and quote your post, I Intended to quote the creator of this thread xD!

    There is fixed :) sorry

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    Make SB choose one pet, no one should be able to be super glass cannon and super tanky whenever they wish to, not to mention the 5+ permanent boons all the time. Else, don't allow them to heal pets when getting out of the mode.

    The pet is not a source of extra damage for the ranger but is part of the damage the profession manages to do.
    Ranger + Pet = Other Professions, there are no super glass cannons. I wanted to clarify this :)

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    How about this: allow Soulbeast to heal their pets by 5% of damage dealt while the pet is alive. If the pet falls, you'll lose the ability to merge with it, which means that the class will keep its pet swap, but now pet swapping will be a must. If a pet has fallen, it now heals by 40% of outgoing damage, whether you're using the same pet, or swapped to the other, as the trait proc's 5% for the live and 40% for the fallen.

    Let's say the pet has 20k hp. You will deal something like 3k per hit, 1200 healing per hit for a fallen pet, which is ~17 hits before the pet is back up, no matter the pet currently in use.

    This is a raw example, numbers could be changed.

    The spvp is a team game and not 1vs1, 2 or more people would eliminate the pet immediately since it is not able to dodge or avoid aoe, it would be a useless change, It would only make this mechanic useless

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2019

    @Revolution.5409 said:
    The pet is not a source of extra damage for the ranger but is part of the damage the profession manages to do.
    Ranger + Pet = Other Professions, there are no super glass cannons. I wanted to clarify this :)

    This is regarding the attribute bonuses from merging not the pet itself. For example, 200 Toughness and 100 Vitality is the equivalent of a Legging and another armor piece with the Vitality part out, it may not seem enough, but on Weaver, I can 100% tell the difference when I'm with 1000 Toughness and when with 1300, let alone the Vitality as well.

    The spvp is a team game and not 1vs1, 2 or more people would eliminate the pet immediately since it is not able to dodge or avoid aoe, it would be a useless change, It would only make this mechanic useless

    It's a team game, yet most of the classes excel at dueling than team fighting. Only FB, Scourge and Holo can be considered actual team fighters, others are just node holders, or as I call it from my LoL words, a jungler aka Thief. Almost every team-fighting team has 2 of the the trio mentioned, and you have to focus on your duelists if you don't have a feedback that is equivalent to that, just like LoL, a team with 5v5 capabilities, the other is mostly assassins - they look for picks, each excels at one thing and tries to force it on the other. So yeah, PvP is a team game in terms of focusing on what your team excels at, but it's not XvX all the time when X > 1, so 1v1 and 2v2s are more common than what I would call team fights.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2019

    @Auburner.6945 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:
    The pet is not a source of extra damage for the ranger but is part of the damage the profession manages to do.
    Ranger + Pet = Other Professions, there are no super glass cannons. I wanted to clarify this :)

    This is regarding the attribute bonuses from merging not the pet itself. For example, 200 Toughness and 100 Vitality is the equivalent of a Legging and another armor piece with the Vitality part out, it may not seem enough, but on Weaver, I can 100% tell the difference when I'm with 1000 Toughness and when with 1300, let alone the Vitality as well.

    The spvp is a team game and not 1vs1, 2 or more people would eliminate the pet immediately since it is not able to dodge or avoid aoe, it would be a useless change, It would only make this mechanic useless

    It's a team game, yet most of the classes excel at dueling than team fighting. Only FB, Scourge and Holo can be considered actual team fighters, others are just node holders, or as I call it from my LoL words, a jungler aka Thief. Almost every team-fighting team has 2 of the the trio mentioned, and you have to focus on your duelists if you don't have a feedback that is equivalent to that, just like LoL, a team with 5v5 capabilities, the other is mostly assassins - they look for picks, each excels at one thing and tries to force it on the other. So yeah, PvP is a team game in terms of focusing on what your team excels at, but it's not XvX all the time when X > 1, so 1v1 and 2v2s are more common than what I would call team fights.

    As I wrote above the pet "is part of DPS ranger no extra damage" this means that when SB joins the pet those statistics that are missing from the profession are compensated as an extra bonus depending on the pets family.
    If people don't like it, claiming core ranger damage is matched with all other professions in the game and no longer shared with a pet. In this way SB would not get extra statistics from BM mode, but only skills, instead of unnecessary nerfs requests.

    This doesn't make my point wrong, a mechanic must always be able to use. If there is a situation in which it could not work, it should be reviewed. I would not want another mechanic broken for my profession, it was enough for me to destroy druid bunkers in HoT with the passage of CA from 10 to 20 seconds xD

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Wondrouswall.7169 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Replace petswap with beastmode and soulbeast has a good trade off.

    You know, like this idea a lot. In fact, I'd like to see this idea on Druid, too. They can even apply some of the other ideas I've read with this to compensate for the pet's AI in areas such as large scale battles.

    Soulbeast already revives the pet when exiting out of Beastmode, and limiting it down to a single pet is a huge trade off. With Druid, having a single pet would also be a trade off, and the pet could also revive but when entering Celestial Form.

    Pet swap traits can be altered to activate on F4 (in general) and beef up the heartiness and support of the pet while the Druid is in Celestial Form to ensure it can survive large scale scenarios.

    Oh, and remove the -20% stat reduction on pets with Druid if this route is taken. Wouldn't be a need for that with a single pet and all.

    +1

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2019

    @Lunateric.3708 said:
    PvP high rated players already found out you either let the scrapper sit on node and win the rest of the map since it can't freely move around or just +1 and it's over. Don't get me wrong, it's a great bunker but a bunker centric meta hasn't been a thing for a while.

    I think you gotta start thinking outside the box.

    In the March EU MAT Scrapper was on both finalist teams. In April it was on the winning EU team. For NA's April MAT it was on both finalist teams.

    MAT's are not the end all be all indicator for balance, that's true. But at the end of the day if it's winning MAT's against some of the best players in the game, if it's represented on every single winning team, it's well beyond some meme build where all you have to do is go wherever it isn't and GG. Scrapper is anywhere from an A-tier to an S-tier build in effectiveness. And even the best players in the game are either losing to it or are using it in their team composition. It's not some gold tier meme build that struggles once you get out of platinum.

    And it's not just only in organized play where it shines the way support Firebrand really only becomes S-tier in an organized composition. It's doing excellent in NA's ranked with plenty of showings in the top 100 that I personally know of.

    It it without a doubt a top tier build.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:
    PvP high rated players already found out you either let the scrapper sit on node and win the rest of the map since it can't freely move around or just +1 and it's over. Don't get me wrong, it's a great bunker but a bunker centric meta hasn't been a thing for a while.

    I think you gotta start thinking outside the box.

    In the March EU MAT Scrapper was on both finalist teams. In April it was on the winning EU team. For NA's April MAT it was on both finalist teams.

    MAT's are not the end all be all indicator for balance, that's true. But at the end of the day if it's winning MAT's against some of the best players in the game, if it's represented on every single winning team, it's well beyond some meme build where all you have to do is go wherever it isn't and GG. Scrapper is anywhere from an A-tier to an S-tier build in effectiveness. And even the best players in the game are either losing to it or are using it in their team composition. It's not some gold tier meme build that struggles once you get out of platinum.

    And it's not just only in organized play where it shines the way support Firebrand really only becomes S-tier in an organized composition. It's doing excellent in NA's ranked with plenty of showings in the top 100 that I personally know of.

    It it without a doubt a top tier build.

    Memory is short for some people like you but there were rules that had you prohibited from stacking heralds in tournaments, for example, because stacking 4 of them was the most efficient way of winning.

    You're just showing that having one scrapper in your team is good since it's a solid build and that's absolutely fine.

    That's right, not 2 or 3 or a whole team of scrappers: just one.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:
    PvP high rated players already found out you either let the scrapper sit on node and win the rest of the map since it can't freely move around or just +1 and it's over. Don't get me wrong, it's a great bunker but a bunker centric meta hasn't been a thing for a while.

    I think you gotta start thinking outside the box.

    In the March EU MAT Scrapper was on both finalist teams. In April it was on the winning EU team. For NA's April MAT it was on both finalist teams.

    MAT's are not the end all be all indicator for balance, that's true. But at the end of the day if it's winning MAT's against some of the best players in the game, if it's represented on every single winning team, it's well beyond some meme build where all you have to do is go wherever it isn't and GG. Scrapper is anywhere from an A-tier to an S-tier build in effectiveness. And even the best players in the game are either losing to it or are using it in their team composition. It's not some gold tier meme build that struggles once you get out of platinum.

    And it's not just only in organized play where it shines the way support Firebrand really only becomes S-tier in an organized composition. It's doing excellent in NA's ranked with plenty of showings in the top 100 that I personally know of.

    It it without a doubt a top tier build.

    Memory is short for some people like you but there were rules that had you prohibited from stacking heralds in tournaments, for example, because stacking 4 of them was the most efficient way of winning.

    You're just showing that having one scrapper in your team is good since it's a solid build and that's absolutely fine.

    That's right, not 2 or 3 or a whole team of scrappers: just one.

    I don't think you understand PvP or how meta team compositions work.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:
    PvP high rated players already found out you either let the scrapper sit on node and win the rest of the map since it can't freely move around or just +1 and it's over. Don't get me wrong, it's a great bunker but a bunker centric meta hasn't been a thing for a while.

    I think you gotta start thinking outside the box.

    In the March EU MAT Scrapper was on both finalist teams. In April it was on the winning EU team. For NA's April MAT it was on both finalist teams.

    MAT's are not the end all be all indicator for balance, that's true. But at the end of the day if it's winning MAT's against some of the best players in the game, if it's represented on every single winning team, it's well beyond some meme build where all you have to do is go wherever it isn't and GG. Scrapper is anywhere from an A-tier to an S-tier build in effectiveness. And even the best players in the game are either losing to it or are using it in their team composition. It's not some gold tier meme build that struggles once you get out of platinum.

    And it's not just only in organized play where it shines the way support Firebrand really only becomes S-tier in an organized composition. It's doing excellent in NA's ranked with plenty of showings in the top 100 that I personally know of.

    It it without a doubt a top tier build.

    Memory is short for some people like you but there were rules that had you prohibited from stacking heralds in tournaments, for example, because stacking 4 of them was the most efficient way of winning.

    You're just showing that having one scrapper in your team is good since it's a solid build and that's absolutely fine.

    That's right, not 2 or 3 or a whole team of scrappers: just one.

    I don't think you understand PvP or how meta team compositions work.

    Being a plat/legend player myself I know what it means, I also know and understand like every top player that scrapper isn't "omg broken please nerf to the ground". The videos you posted just showcase that.

    Thanks for saving me time.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:
    PvP high rated players already found out you either let the scrapper sit on node and win the rest of the map since it can't freely move around or just +1 and it's over. Don't get me wrong, it's a great bunker but a bunker centric meta hasn't been a thing for a while.

    I think you gotta start thinking outside the box.

    In the March EU MAT Scrapper was on both finalist teams. In April it was on the winning EU team. For NA's April MAT it was on both finalist teams.

    MAT's are not the end all be all indicator for balance, that's true. But at the end of the day if it's winning MAT's against some of the best players in the game, if it's represented on every single winning team, it's well beyond some meme build where all you have to do is go wherever it isn't and GG. Scrapper is anywhere from an A-tier to an S-tier build in effectiveness. And even the best players in the game are either losing to it or are using it in their team composition. It's not some gold tier meme build that struggles once you get out of platinum.

    And it's not just only in organized play where it shines the way support Firebrand really only becomes S-tier in an organized composition. It's doing excellent in NA's ranked with plenty of showings in the top 100 that I personally know of.

    It it without a doubt a top tier build.

    Memory is short for some people like you but there were rules that had you prohibited from stacking heralds in tournaments, for example, because stacking 4 of them was the most efficient way of winning.

    You're just showing that having one scrapper in your team is good since it's a solid build and that's absolutely fine.

    That's right, not 2 or 3 or a whole team of scrappers: just one.

    I don't think you understand PvP or how meta team compositions work.

    Being a plat/legend player myself I know what it means, I also know and understand like every top player that scrapper isn't "omg broken please nerf to the ground". The videos you posted just showcase that.

    Thanks for saving me time.

    Just checked both the EU and NA leaderboard. I don't see you anywhere. Both of them bottom out in plat 1. I'm going to go ahead and say you aren't telling the truth about your own skill.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:
    PvP high rated players already found out you either let the scrapper sit on node and win the rest of the map since it can't freely move around or just +1 and it's over. Don't get me wrong, it's a great bunker but a bunker centric meta hasn't been a thing for a while.

    I think you gotta start thinking outside the box.

    In the March EU MAT Scrapper was on both finalist teams. In April it was on the winning EU team. For NA's April MAT it was on both finalist teams.

    MAT's are not the end all be all indicator for balance, that's true. But at the end of the day if it's winning MAT's against some of the best players in the game, if it's represented on every single winning team, it's well beyond some meme build where all you have to do is go wherever it isn't and GG. Scrapper is anywhere from an A-tier to an S-tier build in effectiveness. And even the best players in the game are either losing to it or are using it in their team composition. It's not some gold tier meme build that struggles once you get out of platinum.

    And it's not just only in organized play where it shines the way support Firebrand really only becomes S-tier in an organized composition. It's doing excellent in NA's ranked with plenty of showings in the top 100 that I personally know of.

    It it without a doubt a top tier build.

    Memory is short for some people like you but there were rules that had you prohibited from stacking heralds in tournaments, for example, because stacking 4 of them was the most efficient way of winning.

    You're just showing that having one scrapper in your team is good since it's a solid build and that's absolutely fine.

    That's right, not 2 or 3 or a whole team of scrappers: just one.

    I don't think you understand PvP or how meta team compositions work.

    Being a plat/legend player myself I know what it means, I also know and understand like every top player that scrapper isn't "omg broken please nerf to the ground". The videos you posted just showcase that.

    Thanks for saving me time.

    Just checked both the EU and NA leaderboard. I don't see you anywhere. Both of them bottom out in plat 1. I'm going to go ahead and say you aren't telling the truth about your own skill.

    The leaderboards don't include people who don't meet the minimum match number. I've been in plat for a long time, but I haven't been in the leaderboards more than a few seasons.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • archmagus.7249archmagus.7249 Member ✭✭✭

    First off with holo is they're a high risk class. If their holoforge overheats, they take a lot of damage and lose access to their high damage skills.

    As for scrapper, they've got lots of reflects and blocks not to mention barrier uptime. Since the change where projectile protection is affected by unblockable projectiles, a deadeye should have no problem.

    Speaking of, deadeyes need a nerf. it's way too op to be able to crit for 16k and immediately remove reveal and go back to stealth.

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:
    PvP high rated players already found out you either let the scrapper sit on node and win the rest of the map since it can't freely move around or just +1 and it's over. Don't get me wrong, it's a great bunker but a bunker centric meta hasn't been a thing for a while.

    I think you gotta start thinking outside the box.

    In the March EU MAT Scrapper was on both finalist teams. In April it was on the winning EU team. For NA's April MAT it was on both finalist teams.

    MAT's are not the end all be all indicator for balance, that's true. But at the end of the day if it's winning MAT's against some of the best players in the game, if it's represented on every single winning team, it's well beyond some meme build where all you have to do is go wherever it isn't and GG. Scrapper is anywhere from an A-tier to an S-tier build in effectiveness. And even the best players in the game are either losing to it or are using it in their team composition. It's not some gold tier meme build that struggles once you get out of platinum.

    And it's not just only in organized play where it shines the way support Firebrand really only becomes S-tier in an organized composition. It's doing excellent in NA's ranked with plenty of showings in the top 100 that I personally know of.

    It it without a doubt a top tier build.

    Memory is short for some people like you but there were rules that had you prohibited from stacking heralds in tournaments, for example, because stacking 4 of them was the most efficient way of winning.

    You're just showing that having one scrapper in your team is good since it's a solid build and that's absolutely fine.

    That's right, not 2 or 3 or a whole team of scrappers: just one.

    I don't think you understand PvP or how meta team compositions work.

    Being a plat/legend player myself I know what it means, I also know and understand like every top player that scrapper isn't "omg broken please nerf to the ground". The videos you posted just showcase that.

    Thanks for saving me time.

    Just checked both the EU and NA leaderboard. I don't see you anywhere. Both of them bottom out in plat 1. I'm going to go ahead and say you aren't telling the truth about your own skill.

    I don't have minimum games required. Now that you brought leaderboards why don't you make an analysis on how many scrappers are actually there though, prepare to be surprised.

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