Need advice fighting certain professions.

[Zexanima.7851]

Context: WvW and sPvP running pretty standard core S/D with short bow but I run basi venom, I love that unblockable stun.

"Don't fight them 1v1" is probably what I'll get as an answer but I'll ask anyway and see if anyone has some strats that work for them.

1. Dragonhunter: The traps, the chain, the bow, all the aegis. It's a nightmare to fight. If I stay at a distance I get out ranged, if I fight close I get rocked by traps. If I pop the traps and try to kite I get chained (the good ones wait until the end of my dodge/evade frame to hit me). If they miss the chain they just peg me with their bow. I'm not certain how to fight them or if I even can.
2. Reaper: If they have an axe they will out damage my shortbow. Meleeing them is certain death with reaper shroud. If they are smart and camp a no port spot it's even harder to fight them because I can't give them the ol' in-n-out on sword 2 to bait skills.
3. Holosmith(and to a lesser extent, scrapper): Oh boy, the amount of sustain these guys generate is insane. I had someone in sPvP arena the other day stand there and let me land burst on them for free to test it out. Didn't even get them to half health and that was without them dodging, blocking, or doing anything to mitigate the damage. Not to mention they have insane CC and damage to boot. Is this just a loss if I engage a fight with one?

Side NoteThis is just me QQing a little bit. As much as I absolutely love playing thief the more I start to play it the more I lose faith in it. It seems like the only fights I can win are +1's or against someone who has no idea what they are doing. Even some of the +1's are hopeless if your team mate can't carry their own weight in the fight. Even my mobility is pretty questionable. In WvW I've had things like revenant and ranger catch up to me no problem and lol at my "superior mobility". I should probably just stop whining and play something else, eh?

[bq pd.2148]

how did you get from:

@Zexanima.7851 said:I run core S/D with great success.to@Zexanima.7851 said:I should probably just stop whining and play something else, eh?within just 1 day? what did change ? or did you just have a bad day?

[Zexanima.7851]

@MUDse.7623 said:how did you get from:

@Zexanima.7851 said:I run core S/D with great success.to@Zexanima.7851 said:I should probably just stop whining and play something else, eh?within just 1 day? what did change ? or did you just have a bad day?

I might just be a bad day. I was doing pretty well the other day in wvw on S/D but yesterday I was just getting stomped by longbow rangers and dragonhunters. I only have like 100 hours on thief so I'm definitely still learning

[bq pd.2148]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:how did you get from:

@Zexanima.7851 said:I run core S/D with great success.to@Zexanima.7851 said:I should probably just stop whining and play something else, eh?within just 1 day? what did change ? or did you just have a bad day?

I might just be a bad day. I was doing pretty well the other day in wvw on S/D but yesterday I was just getting stomped by longbow rangers and dragonhunters. I only have like 100 hours on thief so I'm definitely still learning

overall id say kite all of the specs you mentioned you have issues with, but i guess you already know as much and thought you might just have been distracted or whatever today and many players once they start losing, they keep losing. so just take a little break and if the issues you have presist for a longer time, then you might need to switch profession.i personally dont really roam much atm cause of changes to mark, deadeye stealth and warclaw. since ~HoT i did a more ppt oriented way of solo roaming in stealth flipping objectives and binding players and that got killed. the more common way of running aimless around seeking fights is for me too boring and inefficient. funny thing is if they now revert mark changes, then deadeye would be the least of the problems. just for fun i did some tests with 2 guildies and the new mass invisibility. as you know their stealth is a different effect that seems to have a higher stack count, wich means i had at times over 1 min of stealth from us being 3 mesmers. so yeah they would have to change alot i guess for me to start roaming on thief again, therefor i can understand if you dont feel like roaming on thief ;)

[TakeCare.3182]

@"Zexanima.7851" said:

1. Dragonhunter: The traps, the chain, the bow, all the aegis. It's a nightmare to fight. If I stay at a distance I get out ranged, if I fight close I get rocked by traps. If I pop the traps and try to kite I get chained (the good ones wait until the end of my dodge/evade frame to hit me). If they miss the chain they just peg me with their bow. I'm not certain how to fight them or if I even can.

Pretty hard counter, but S/D and staff fare better in this matchup than other sets. Bait out their F1 and other cooldowns. Hold steal. Once they waste some of their damage, go in with sword 2 and burst with sword 3. Use steal to interrupt them when they try to return damage, preferably when you aren't in a sword 3 evade frame. If they don't die then back out, rinse, and repeat.

2. Reaper: If they have an axe they will out damage my shortbow. Meleeing them is certain death with reaper shroud. If they are smart and camp a no port spot it's even harder to fight them because I can't give them the ol' in-n-out on sword 2 to bait skills.

You should just be able to go ham on them. If they pop reaper shroud, disengage. You can ooc if you want. They can't really do anything about it. Use steal to interrupt axe 2 or their heal, preferably the heal. You can also use tactical strike, but it's not super practical. They are only dangerous if they surprise you. Otherwise, you have all the tools you need.

3. Holosmith(and to a lesser extent, scrapper): Oh boy, the amount of sustain these guys generate is insane. I had someone in sPvP arena the other day stand there and let me land burst on them for free to test it out. Didn't even get them to half health and that was without them dodging, blocking, or doing anything to mitigate the damage. Not to mention they have insane CC and damage to boot. Is this just a loss if I engage a fight with one?

Don't even bother fighting scrapper. It's not worth your time. Holosmith is hard, but since they nerfed the passive elixir s, you can win. Treat forge mode like reaper shroud. Once you have some pressure on them, you can outplay them in forge mode, but it's risky. Don't commit to that unless they are low and you are confident you can time your evades. Otherwise, you just have to go in and out like you're fighting a reaper.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Problem I find with s/d after a while playing it is that its dumbed down too much and boring to play, it's become too repetitive with #3 spam thanks to flanking strike being unblockble which also makes it predictable to an extent too. Then there are things like dagger storm and instant reflexes. I guess they are sort of needed vs what's out there today but stuff like this is just really boring game play.

Thief is only good at killing people if you burst them down hard and fast enough which s/d does not, though it is very good at poking and ripping boons of people.

[Jack Redline.5379]

@MUDse.7623 said:how did you get from:

@Zexanima.7851 said:I run core S/D with great success.to@Zexanima.7851 said:I should probably just stop whining and play something else, eh?within just 1 day? what did change ? or did you just have a bad day?

he realized that s/d will get him killed agaimst any AoE node holder nor big surprise s/d tic toc builds have exactly 0 survivabulty against any condi build

[Zexanima.7851]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Problem I find with s/d after a while playing it is that its dumbed down too much and boring to play, it's become too repetitive with #3 spam thanks to flanking strike being unblockble which also makes it predictable to an extent too. Then there are things like dagger storm and instant reflexes. I guess they are sort of needed vs what's out there today but stuff like this is just really boring game play.

Thief is only good at killing people if you burst them down hard and fast enough which s/d does not, though it is very good at poking and ripping boons of people.

What weapon set would you say has the most burst then?

[babazhook.6805]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Problem I find with s/d after a while playing it is that its dumbed down too much and boring to play, it's become too repetitive with #3 spam thanks to flanking strike being unblockble which also makes it predictable to an extent too. Then there are things like dagger storm and instant reflexes. I guess they are sort of needed vs what's out there today but stuff like this is just really boring game play.

Thief is only good at killing people if you burst them down hard and fast enough which s/d does not, though it is very good at poking and ripping boons of people.

What weapon set would you say has the most burst then?

The problem with the high burst sets is with all of those defenses that auto kick in , or the reflects, blocks and the like getting that burst in is not all that realiable. P/P has great burst but INI wise expensive to use and expending that INI for naught if reflect , endure pain, signet of stone a dodge or block thrown up as a response. Add to that p/p is totally outclassed by Ranger LB so if you are facing a ranger you end up dead before you get near.

Malicious backstab off dagger MH is great burst but you going right into those DH traps or the scourge fields to set it up. The go to set becomes s/d more and more because while less bursty , it has more tools to deal with a wider range of professions. (I myself prefer s/p for this).

[noot.8641]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Problem I find with s/d after a while playing it is that its dumbed down too much and boring to play, it's become too repetitive with #3 spam thanks to flanking strike being unblockble which also makes it predictable to an extent too. Then there are things like dagger storm and instant reflexes. I guess they are sort of needed vs what's out there today but stuff like this is just really boring game play.

Thief is only good at killing people if you burst them down hard and fast enough which s/d does not, though it is very good at poking and ripping boons of people.

What weapon set would you say has the most burst then?

S/D doesn’t need to burst someone to beat em..U can play it safe if u are a decent kiter with ur n2.Also S/D can burst pretty good, you just need a good opening rotation. Like n2, steal, CnD, AA from behind to daze.That’s why i like daredevil more on S/D, because after that opener u use impact strike, if the player is out of stunbreaks u just combo him to death, and he can’t do shit.

[kash.9213]

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:how did you get from:

@Zexanima.7851 said:I run core S/D with great success.to@Zexanima.7851 said:I should probably just stop whining and play something else, eh?within just 1 day? what did change ? or did you just have a bad day?

I might just be a bad day. I was doing pretty well the other day in wvw on S/D but yesterday I was just getting stomped by longbow rangers and dragonhunters. I only have like 100 hours on thief so I'm definitely still learning

S/D is a great quality of life kit in wvw and with Swindler's Equilibrium, Weakening Strikes, and Quickness it's about as good of an opener you can ask for in those maps but with follow through to eat up counters. I take scorpion wire mostly for laughs but it helps turn and displace people and it can be an interrupt, most of my build and movement is set up to treat everyone like breakbars that can one-shot me. Remember we don't have a time limit on those maps, you can wander around watching how people and groups think and work together and look at combat log and all that if you get killed trying something out. I really like dancing dagger also in general but that could be because I'm lazy and just want to throw something out there but it gets better against groups and I like the torment.

[ArcanistSeven.8720]

heres some good advice just reroll.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

I still like deadeye for roaming, crazy good spike plus all the tools to avoid a fight should you need to. With how silly strong certain specs are now, plus mounts, roaming is more or less just ganking targets you know you can take and avoiding the rest these days.

Depends what you're looking for tho, deadeye is more effective for roaming but I've been having more fun on rev for general fighting recently, even though I die a lot more haha.

[Turk.5460]

If you are ok with swapping builds, DE hard-counters Reaper, and has an easier time fighting Holosmiths. DH is still pretty much a counter to every thief build as it has been since its creation. And as mentioned above, don't bother fighting Scrappers, it's not worth your time. They can't kill you and you can't kill them.

[Warkind.6745]

I play core S/D too. Holosmith can be a tough fight. DH and reaper will be manageable once you get comfortable with the build. One thing that will help you a lot is abusing infiltrator's strike to get away from enemies.

For dragon hunters I usually try to pressure them into switching to greatsword so I can kite easier. If they hump traps with longbow I try to LoS or back up until they run out of kit. Most of them are so glassy they don't last long to a dedicated melee assault; I don't have much to say here because I don't really run into a ton of dragon hunters and they seem to be relatively new when I do.

Reaper is probably the easiest of the three to fight. Smack them around (flanking strike should give you the upper hand in melee) until they go reaper form. If you engaged with infiltrator's strike like you should have, you can use the return and run around until their shroud dies. Shadowstep away or steal to interrupt their spin to win/shroud #5 if you get caught. This is generally not a class you want to whip out the shortbow against.

Holosmith requires much more patience than other fights. I always run executioner, and to be honest I'm not sure if I'd have much luck against them without it. Fighting holos is usually a game of kiting them and poking with infiltrator's strike, larcenous strike, and steal. You never want to be close for more than a couple of seconds since you can be taken out in a couple of hits when they go holo mode. The hammer leap is the big attack to watch out for because if you eat that you're probably going to be reeling for the rest of the fight. All in all they're pretty much a more dangerous reaper.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Run away. Come back with friends.

Do this for all professions.