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Core Mes revision


praqtos.9035

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@praqtos.9035 said:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:I'd be rather surprised if they give any significant buffs, reworks, or even reverts until after knocking the current overperformers down first. Let's see if they at least do that right.Dont think holo needed a buff last 2 patches, how about you ?

From today's update:
  • Prime Light Beam: The recharge time for this skill is now 60 seconds in all game modes.

So basically they reverted a recharge nerf from last August. So they do revert. There's hope! /s

Because a certain popular streamer plays holosmith and we have to keep him happy on his boosted af broken holo.I dont think they do it to please certain boosted monkey ...Buffed holo 2 patches in a row/rampage that 2shot you its totally fine bruh.On the other side we have a good news, nothing else is left to nerf on the mesmer

Maybe not but when multiple pvp and balance devs hang out in private discords with him and hhave 1 on 1 facetime while he whinges about mirage its going to give them a bigger impression than anyone posting here, no matter how well written or eloquent.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:I'd be rather surprised if they give any significant buffs, reworks, or even reverts until after knocking the current overperformers down first. Let's see if they at least do that right.Dont think holo needed a buff last 2 patches, how about you ?

From today's update:
  • Prime Light Beam: The recharge time for this skill is now 60 seconds in all game modes.

So basically they reverted a recharge nerf from last August. So they do revert. There's hope! /s

Because a certain popular streamer plays holosmith and we have to keep him happy on his boosted af broken holo.I dont think they do it to please certain boosted monkey ...Buffed holo 2 patches in a row/rampage that 2shot you its totally fine bruh.On the other side we have a good news, nothing else is left to nerf on the mesmer

Maybe not but when multiple pvp and balance devs hang out in private discords with him and hhave 1 on 1 facetime while he whinges about mirage its going to give them a bigger impression than anyone posting here, no matter how well written or eloquent.That boostedsmith always been crying about how weak holo is. Scrapper/holo together wins mAT. Anet: underpeforming! Revert unblockable heavy hitting knockdown elite and make it more spammable!
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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:After how bitter the community got about Mirage, despite multiple builds being able to go toe to toe with it as side noder duelists and either stall it out or win, and the ocean of boiling kitten that shot out of everyone's eyes,
I actually don't think Arenanet will ever buff mesmer again no matter what happens
. Considering how much condition mirage got nerfed last patch despite thoroughly being knocked out of the meta in the march patch despite multiple S-Tier builds that are performing far better mesmer I think A-net's goal is to eventually just make mesmer elementalist tier so it upsets less people in PvP. Doesn't matter if Zerkers are literally spamming 30k crits on a 5 second cooldown. It doesn't matter if scrapper is absurdly unkillable or if spellbreaker has an S tier mix of sustain and damage and mobility. People are still making threads kitten about Mesmers in the PvP subform over those other builds.

While I wouldn't say they've shown absolutely no interest in buffing/reworking Mesmer lately (they did give slight duration buffs to some stuns and dazes, tried to update Mass Invisibility, etc.), I'd be rather surprised if they give any significant buffs, reworks, or even reverts until after knocking the current overperformers down first. Let's see if they at least do that right.

How many patches in a row of S-Tier Spellbreaker, Rev, Firebrand, Holo, and Scrapper gone without any real nerfs? Oh we'll "reduce might stack duration by 2 seconds on rev." Meanwhile everything on mesmer gets a 50-60% nerf. Arenanet just doesn't want mesmers to be viable in PvP because the community and community "thought leaders" like a certain Holosmith Streamer don't want mesmer to be viable in PvP. Simple as that.

The Rapid Regeneration joke is a nerf. Everyone gets nibbled away at the edges if they just aren't buffed further like Holosmith. Mesmer gets 50%-60% nerfs to anything. Arc Divider is criting for 30k. "Oh we'll nerf it by 25%." Oh great that'll help. Instead of One Shotting people it'll One Shot People, just with a bit less over kill.

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say they probably want Mes to be about Thief level in terms of overall usefulness and ability in competitive modes. Since both are without a doubt the biggest sources of salt. It never ceases to amaze me when people still gripe about Mesmer like they haven't seen over a year's worth of nerfs and possibly the biggest magnitude nerfs in the game's history.

And wow, just wow. Some time within the last 10 minutes they went and closed the thread I was about to link as an example of the latest whinging. Why, I'll never know. @"Kylden Ar.3724" just started it this morning and it didn't get out of hand or anything that I saw. Now apparently we're not even allowed to try educating the baseless complainers.

Edit: Just saw this thread: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76301/wow-just-wow#latest. Think the outrage over even some rather modest nerfs to a currently top-tier class is just a preview of things to come should the other offenders finally get what should be coming? I don't think anyone outside of Mesmer, Thief, Ele, and to some extent Scourge mains know what real nerfs feel like. Sheesh.

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@"praqtos.9035" said:I know similar kind of thread exist but this gone too far now.To stop average (1200 rating) people from ranting on forum 24/7 they just nerfed everything by 50% and above.Where are these so needed buffs/reworks for so outdated weapons?Greatsword is outdated from 2012 year. Skills need buffs or rework skills or entire weapon to move on from gimmick "oneshot" to something healthier.GS1 had a neat buff but still feels somewhat weak, you will die to retal faster than you take someones half hp. Could do more damage imo.GS2 is only good for point blank shatter burst, outside that it does close to nothing.Gained bounce,lost bounce,gained it back and got nerfed more. n/c.GS3 on release it was a pure meme.Many skills getting buffs but this damage on 12s cd is just a joke. I would like to comapre this to completely busted(9s cd) https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blunderbuss even at maximum range the damage damage and coof. is higher(recently got a buff,mind you this ignore walls/LoS) than mind stab.

GS4 phantasm is good if it hits but struggle to do its damage on moving foes sometimes can hit only 1-2 attack out of 4, phantasms as main damage source of the mesmer is a joke, inconsistent/dumb AI can be easly exploited, how many times they spawn in the air doing nothing, sometimes gs/swordsman just attacking air for some reason.20 seconds cd is too high.GS5 is the most important! Never got buffed/reworked since from 2012. The only thing they did fixed some bug and description? 200 base damage and 30 seconds cd for weird cone knockback, not even knockdown? Thats pathetic... Holo5 hit you from insane range in all direction and travel high ground but GS5 fail to hit if you are not on same level.The only good thing they did for greatsword was slight auto attack buff,they did so for ranger longbow as well but damage % for ranger wasy waaaaaaay higher.Anet made tendency to give weapon skills reduced recharge + unique bonus + 240 free stats. Why mesmer https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fencer's_Finesse has 150 ferocity(why not power?), why to get this 150 ferocity you has to hold a sword and do a 10 melee hits for limited amount of time?Why https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imagined_Burden is grandmaster trait ? Is that really strong ? Why there is no stats increase on it ? Its not even worth to be a grandmaster trait. I have a suggestion: merge it with egotism and give it permanent 5% bonus, remove second phantasm if you want. Make a new grandmaster-worth trait(remove from grandmaster to master tier with egotism merge)

1h sword is another thing I would like to talk about.Sword2 was killed for no reason, well they thought it would be nice to ruin core weapon that never been considered as broken sincejune 2013 alrdy but suddenly because of mirage it became broken to its core? Even after mirage evade/vigor was gutted ? It does 8 hits, even thief pistol whip got Anet mercy and now it does 4 hits. You(Anet) gutted weapon in attempt to nerf mirage evasion. It was done.Mirage cloak nerfed to normal evade. Why nerf core weapons/traits to nerf certain elite spec???Sword 3 clone getting demolished even before you can swap to it,oh how many times it was nerfed...Clone has only 2400 hp and die just to 1 auto attack/random aoe. Swap doesnt swap you with a clone on many places, so this skill just doesnt work, it has to swap you with a clone but it just doesnt, do something about it ?Sword offhand suffered from unjustified nerfs post phantasm rework, 20s cd for slow walking phantasm that start his attack melee and without stun/long immobilize can be ignored just by walking. Heck I even can compare this to revenant offhand5 that shadowstep SLOW/CHILL and slap your enemy for 5.000-10.600 damage with 1/2s cast time(15s cd lol)

Scepter had a damage increase to make people use it, increased number of hits thus channeling time as well. As result people started to use it even if it was very clunky. And what now? Its ended up being even worse than before they gave it a buff. You shouldnt have ever touched this, just gutted another weapon that beg for a rework.

Torch is good ... The only thing is I dont like is 30s cooldown on phantasm. Its too long. Should be 20s to be on par with all other phantasms.

Honorable mentions :Blinding Dissipation and Reflect on evade. This traits were just deleted. Taking away active defense from class that rely only on them,not through passive sustain/a lot of heals. Compensations anywhere?Cry of pain used to give 1 confusion stack on every shatter, then they put all confusions onto 1 skill to remove it completely ,bravo, another buff to make it worse laters.Vigor on crit: 3s every 10s. Similar traits on every other class is 5s every 10s. Some have 100% uptime.Portal 50% duration nerf. Elites : time warp, moa signet.Ineptitude overall 60% duration nerf.

I really dont understand, its hard to nerf overperforming skill by 10-25% and see if its need more? Waiting for months and then suddenly nuke it from orbit with 50-67% is fine?

I'm a Power Core Mesmer that plays WvW Roaming/PvP... I would like to agree about GS (especially GS 3...) and Main+offhand sword skills like sword 2 really needs some love as my survival and damage against class that just range me (Unblockable Soulbeasts/Classic Power Rangers/Stealth Hard Druids/Gunflame/Perma Stealth Deadeye/PP Daredevil/Reveal Discharge Holosmith/Dragonhunter 1500 Trueshot + reveal F1 etc) or simply CC me then melee me to death (Holosmith/Berserker/Rampage Spellbreaker/Rampage Warriors/Soulbeasts/Power Mirage/Chilly Power Reaper with pulls/DragonTrapper/D+F Weaver etc) just make it... useless sometimes, as for offhand sword.

Well, short duration block ain't gonna do much with all the insane unblockable stuff I've encountered... I never realized how much Core Roaming/PvP players suffer since I use to play Power Mirage often and claim I'm better... but in reality a dueler I beaten from Full [TIME] a good Power Signet Chronomancer was right... you never really win as long you play a spec that just carry you. After swapping to Core Mesmer, learned their hardship and realized how bad it is... hopefully, Anet not just rework Core Mesmer stuff, but to other Core specs like Engineer, Necromancer and Elementalist gets proper rework to stand on equal ground with other specs.

Wishful thinking that may never come true...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Having come from wow, and playing a mesmer, and reading this thread reminds me of how warlocks used to be in wow (mop xpac and before)..

  • Was it useful? nerf it
  • Did it perform? nerf it
  • Did it get you kill in pvp? nerf it
  • Did the community complain about it? nerf it
  • Topping DPS charts? nerf it
  • is mage and rogue getting buffed again? nerf warlocks again, because.
  • did warlocks get a nerf? nerf more of their abilities and traits all at once
  • did other classes have single abilities buffed? Make warlocks abilities weaker so they have to use more of them to do any form of damage... and nerf them a little more whilst any change is happening

In all honesty, I don't know enough about the intricacies of professions in GW2 to really feel a % difference in any abilities as it stands, but I feel its does pretty decent how it is now... maybe I don't know how it was!

Cool thread btw :)

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At this point its just hopeless. They have no idea how to balance mesmer.They just refuse to rework/buff really old weapons that need it. Because ...whiningknowledgable community.My preddiction they will straight kill the class(actually they did that alrdy, but more coming) with "trade off" and call it a day until gw dies completely

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Staff need rework as well. At least autos could use a rework/update/velocity increase/power damage, something. Chaos armor as 4 skill is a meme.Look how many buffs engineer get? How many buffs rifle got since its release? I dont even understand how they can complain that rifle is bad and then I look at greatsword...Look at guardian staff skills now? Its amazing now, at least from what I can see. This autos are sick.

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@Arimir.5864 said:Having come from wow, and playing a mesmer, and reading this thread reminds me of how warlocks used to be in wow (mop xpac and before)..

  • Was it useful? nerf it
  • Did it perform? nerf it
  • Did it get you kill in pvp? nerf it
  • Did the community complain about it? nerf it
  • Topping DPS charts? nerf it
  • is mage and rogue getting buffed again? nerf warlocks again, because.
  • did warlocks get a nerf? nerf more of their abilities and traits all at once
  • did other classes have single abilities buffed? Make warlocks abilities weaker so they have to use more of them to do any form of damage... and nerf them a little more whilst any change is happening

In all honesty, I don't know enough about the intricacies of professions in GW2 to really feel a % difference in any abilities as it stands, but I feel its does pretty decent how it is now... maybe I don't know how it was!

Cool thread btw :)

Excellent comparison, pretty much spot on actually. Mesmer is a silly profession, nerfing it has invariably hit the wrong things. The one aspect I did think was a good change was Phantasms, because stacking them and standing around doing nothing while they did all the damage felt boring and stupid.... certainly was easier for my wife to play the profession though. Unfortunately, they did not reduce the CD on phantasms during the change, which I feel they really should have done.

Weapons are not as bad off as many would suggest here, but every ability is so niche and tough to land that they are unlike any other profession in the game. Literally every other class can mash any button and get results, except Mesmer. This is a known issue, and really the source is a number of our skills being linked to requiring a target, clones and phantasms would best benefited by being able to be used out of combat.

All the major issues with the profession have been around and will always remain because we function in spite of being a broken profession.

In short, simple changes, clones and phantasms no longer needing a valid target but assuming whatever is targeted after summon. Targeted abilities made to require no target (AoE, line, or radius instead). This would resolve Mesmer being unlike every other profession, then they could be tuned like others instead of constantly having to be treated in a unique fashion.

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