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[merged] About the Skyscale Timegate...


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@Blocki.4931 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:What exactly we can't get on the very 1st day? (all i did yesterday was the full story + map completion)Just curious, haven't started the collection yet.

After the first two collections for the Skyscale you have to wait a day between finishing the following ones. People are mad they don't get worthless spirit shards.

first 4 collections

ScalesMedicine (will require you to play several map metas worth of play time to unlock 3 of them) not an issue cause the map is actually fun to play but still.Find sick onesEggs

Wait a daynext unknown collection (don't know the task or if it will have gold cost)

This repeats the process for a minimum of 5 days assuming you get each collection done fully before the next reset which obviously many people wont because they dont have time to play like that.

People are mad because they spent more time than it took to roughly get roller and griffon combined and dont even have the base mount unlocked yet when anet pretty much has been screaming come get it on release day.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Klowdy.3126" said:TLDR: it's a problem because people have no patience.

Maybe you should read the email that anet sent out saying that you should come play and get your "SKYSCALE TODAY"its a problem because people dont like bing lied too and bamboozled

LOL ... yeah OMG ... they are FOOLING people into playing a game they have been playing for years to come experience new content. tragic.

i guess you missed the whole part where you cant do the following statement lol

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@Ayakaru.6583 said:While I'm no fan of time gating as it feels arbitrary, i don't think it's as bad as a lot of people make it out to be.They're just preventing people from being done on day 1.I mean, even the story could be finished by in an hour.

Exactly. One hour content + 2-3 hours map completion and some events. This is the entire episode. Delayed and delayed again. To hide this they dilluted the content on 5 separate days. Stopping your progress to the mount even if you want to spend this effort. Is this a good design?

In my opinion, the best way to prevent the players to complete the new LS in one day is to don't release the episode.

But I thought that the intention of the developers is to offer something enjoyable after so much waiting period and not to prevent the players to complete the content.

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@Marmorix.9654 said:

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Holy dude, just go through with the 5 days and you're done. People really overexaggerate this - as if you had to climb the K2 without an oxygen flask.

Its not 5 days if you can only play on weekends, then its 21 days ;-)

Okay granted, but then you'll be 'slow' generally. They simply can't consider every playstyle.

For which playstyle is the time gate a benefit?I only see people who doesn't care about it and people who don't like it. But I have never see a response like 'Yeahhhh time gated stufff, cheeerrs'

Well, maybe I am a different kind, but somehow I liked the working towards something-appeal. I made a lot of legendaries though. Maybe I just like it. The feel of reward is bigger when you had to work for it a bit and sorry a 5 days isn't really a long time. For my first legendary in 2012 I grinded for about 3-4 months daily.

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@ProtoGunner.4953 said:

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Holy dude, just go through with the 5 days and you're done. People really overexaggerate this - as if you had to climb the K2 without an oxygen flask.

Its not 5 days if you can only play on weekends, then its 21 days ;-)

Okay granted, but then you'll be 'slow' generally. They simply can't consider every playstyle.

For which playstyle is the time gate a benefit?I only see people who doesn't care about it and people who don't like it. But I have never see a response like 'Yeahhhh time gated stufff, cheeerrs'

Well, maybe I am a different kind, but somehow I liked the working towards something-appeal. I made a lot of legendaries though. Maybe I just like it. The feel of reward is bigger when you had to work for it a bit and sorry a 5 days isn't really a long time. For my first legendary in 2012 I grinded for about 3-4 months daily.

How is waiting for a timer to run out work? How is it making it feel more rewarding?You are talking about grinding daily, that's like the exact opposite of a timegate, which makes many ppl just log off for the day wihtout actually doing any more "work"

Timegates make sense to keep stuff rare, to strech out content if you have for example a subscription based game or simply far too less content in general. It makes sense for stuff that is not having any impact on how you play the game, for example earning some extra money while you're doing something else in the game or are offline is okay, ime gating skills, classes, story, mounts, races etc. is however not

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"Klowdy.3126" said:TLDR: it's a problem because people have no patience.

Maybe you should read the email that anet sent out saying that you should come play and get your "SKYSCALE TODAY"its a problem because people dont like bing lied too and bamboozled

LOL ... yeah OMG ... they are FOOLING people into playing a game they have been playing for years to come experience new content. tragic.

i guess you missed the whole part where you cant do the following statement lol

No, i didn't miss it ... I'm just realistic because I play GW2 for more than one day ... therefore it's not a big deal that it takes more than a day to get it. I'm not offended by some minor oversight because I play the game anyways and eventually I will get the mount /shrug

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@tekhiun.8653 said:

Okay, I am not your average player, since I did collection for 3 or 4 legendaries. Especially Aurora which took me a while only to find out, that I need the Mount Maelstrom collection which took me another 16 days (well about 20 with all the breaks). But you will get it eventually. MMOs are here for long term goals and a flying mount is rather prestige than other stuff in the game.

Cool it's prestige, but the griffon wasn't like this at all. And frankly time gating stuff like this is just bad design for the issues many have expressed already. When you say that there will be a mount that will be related to the story, the hype is that we will unlock it during the story and pretty much the entire community thought that way and they did NOTHING to warn us about that, that it would be time gated to daily resets and it would take 5 days because of it, you are basically crushing the expectations of many players and creating frustanting moments during the gameplay. Being locked away from a collection for whole day because of 10 minutes isn't fun or engaging,. It doesn't make me look forward to what is coming specially when the first part was an incredibly boring fetch quest of 61 items.

Remember it's gated to daily reset, so if you take your take but you finish that 61st item , guess what you can't take you r time anymore, it's just blocked content for block sake. and there is nothing we can do about it. It's an inexcusable bad design.

They should have given us the mount DURING the story, and this whole time gated grindy and boring collection would be for something a unique mount skin for the skyscale. At least that way it would be something new and fresh and not something that makes me think if I should keep playing the game at all.

People who complain about grind are the first ones who complain about that there is nothing to do. Well, not everyone, we had a paradigm shift in what games are; a lot of people just want a casual. rewarding, non-brainer to relax. I think differently (well it shifted as well tbh, but I was pretty hardcore back in the days). That said, it really isn't that of a grind. Imagine grinding for a legendary for a couple of months - did that about 8 times.

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The biggest problem for me is that those timegates are actually making me RUSH. A lot. With the griffon collection I was okay It was a fun collection to do for me and I knew that I can go rest for a while when I want to, then return to the game and there was no problem. The Skyscale tho... You NEED to do collections in one day or you will be punished by another day waiting. What about people that can't do it till weekend? How long will they do it?And if people want to rush - let them rush, it's fine they don't disturb anyone.Timegating things daily is just a really bad decision

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@Adenin.5973 said:

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Holy dude, just go through with the 5 days and you're done. People really overexaggerate this - as if you had to climb the K2 without an oxygen flask.

Its not 5 days if you can only play on weekends, then its 21 days ;-)

Okay granted, but then you'll be 'slow' generally. They simply can't consider every playstyle.

For which playstyle is the time gate a benefit?I only see people who doesn't care about it and people who don't like it. But I have never see a response like 'Yeahhhh time gated stufff, cheeerrs'

Well, maybe I am a different kind, but somehow I liked the working towards something-appeal. I made a lot of legendaries though. Maybe I just like it. The feel of reward is bigger when you had to work for it a bit and sorry a 5 days isn't really a long time. For my first legendary in 2012 I grinded for about 3-4 months daily.

How is waiting for a timer to run out work? How is it making it feel more rewarding?You are talking about grinding daily, that's like the exact opposite of a timegate, which makes many ppl just log off for the day wihtout actually doing any more "work"

It's a step by step goal: do your daily thing, go out, have a beer with your friend, go out with great women/men and enjoy the day. There is more than just the game. You'll get it eventually. Why the hurry? You have the game since 7 years without this mount.

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@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:While I'm no fan of time gating as it feels arbitrary, i don't think it's as bad as a lot of people make it out to be.They're just preventing people from being done on day 1.I mean, even the story could be finished by in an hour.

Exactly. One hour content + 2-3 hours map completion and some events. This is the entire episode. Delayed and delayed again. To hide this they dilluted the content on 5 separate days. Stopping your progress to the mount even if you want to spend this effort. Is this a good design?

It's MMO design ... I don't get why this concept is so offensive to people ... I've yet to play an MMO where you don't see one of two things:

  1. Blast through new content
  2. Grind through new content

Either way, there are people that complain about it. That says nothing of the design being good or bad. We have content in this game that spans the spectrum of both.

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@"TheNecrosanct.4028" said:I don't get why people avoid PoF maps now. I mean, yes, I get it, but I don't understand people don't realize this will only extend the duration of the problem. Unless they're hoping for a "fix", one that might not even come, because this might be exactly how ANet planned it. There are still loads of people in Dragonfall so it's not going to send a message to ANet by way of population numbers either.

The whole "I want it all and I want it now" attitude is not helping people. There really is no need, and what's a few days in a lifetime? Not getting spirit shards is not going to create insurmountable problems. Whatever you're using them for will have to wait a bit. I don't see anything that will impede gameplay by not getting spirit shards. Is it ideal? No. But the longer you wait, the longer the problem will persist.

Its the idea that its wasteful really for players who already have all PoF masteries.Story completion xp wasted, map meta and event xp wasted, progress toward new mount and its masteries non existent for another 24 hours, 5 days, (for players who have busy lives and have limited play time possibly several weeks)Anet could hide the mastery and return spirit shard gain yes but over all with this mount being treated like a legendary mount when it was not announced as such or hidden as such it creates a problem for people in the general public who were looking forward to it over the other key features.

On top of that your are forced to complete the story to even attempt to start progress unlike roller.

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@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Okay granted, but then you'll be 'slow' generally. They simply can't consider every playstyle.

why can't they? they have metrics, they see how long people log in during days and how often accounts log in during weeks, etc. what if Zahme would have had like 8 hours freetime on a sunday and he finishes the 1. collection in maybe 5 hours? do find it a good design idea to lock him out of the progression for his other 3 hours where he could have continued the 2. collection and let him feel fucked up by really bad and lazy Design choice? So if you would care about other people playing the game, you would support their point of view, because if you are one of the fortune ones to get there by sunday this week... why not let others how are weeks away from a major release seller have their mount maybe earlier?

So a timegate is just a bad and lame design method for any game, especially in the way it is executed here.

And excuse me for saying - but the people who are able to play like 6 hours every day are either on vacation, don't have a job, go to school or are extreamly lucky. Because the majority will sadly have a 9 to 5 job, then there is family and friends, gym days, the daily life like cleaning, houshold activities, do shopping, etc.

but sorry dont mind us casual players getting upset for beeing forced to getting no shard progress due to a looked expbar and beeing upset about Anet forcing us to a grind we dont willing want to do but is needed because the map hard tailored for the mount.

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@slasc.3260 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I think it's funny someone complains about the time gate ... I guess spending 250G is more to your liking?

Do we have any reason to think it WON'T cost 250g? The Griffon had collections, too...

Yes, that would be an added insult. Actually, I'm OK with the time gate for the Skyscale although not crazy about it. BUT, if at the end of however many days it takes, we're hit with a requirement that costs 100s of gold, I will be miffed. To put it mildly.

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@viniebc.9568 said:Istan was populated for months and what anet did to it? nerfed to the ground. It's not our fault that the new maps are not interesting/not rewarding enough.

People weren't doing the content in Istan, they were just gold farming, it's not really the same (Istan and Silverwastes, are NOT compelling content). Look at the LWS3 maps. People aren't farming them for gold like Istan, but they're full of people who are working towards Aurora. Without this, the maps would be almost unplayable.

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@ProtoGunner.4953 said:

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Holy dude, just go through with the 5 days and you're done. People really overexaggerate this - as if you had to climb the K2 without an oxygen flask.

Its not 5 days if you can only play on weekends, then its 21 days ;-)

Okay granted, but then you'll be 'slow' generally. They simply can't consider every playstyle.

For which playstyle is the time gate a benefit?I only see people who doesn't care about it and people who don't like it. But I have never see a response like 'Yeahhhh time gated stufff, cheeerrs'

Well, maybe I am a different kind, but somehow I liked the working towards something-appeal. I made a lot of legendaries though. Maybe I just like it. The feel of reward is bigger when you had to work for it a bit and sorry a 5 days isn't really a long time. For my first legendary in 2012 I grinded for about 3-4 months daily.

How is waiting for a timer to run out work? How is it making it feel more rewarding?You are talking about grinding daily, that's like the exact opposite of a timegate, which makes many ppl just log off for the day wihtout actually doing any more "work"

It's a step by step goal: do your daily thing, go out, have a beer with your friend, go out with great women/men and enjoy the day. There is more than just the game. You'll get it eventually. Why the hurry? You have the game since 7 years without this mount.

If you have other stuff to do right now, great, log off and do it. But how about we let ppl play when and how long they want? I play a game 5 hrs a day sometimes and then I don't play it for a month. And I am sick of devs telling me that I can't do that, because they want me to be there when next week they release the new cash shop uipdate or whatever.

I don't want to play next week, I want to play now and if I can't do that I am done with the game, pretty simple.

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How exacly is this time gate helping to keep the map actively populated? Once you did 10 events in each area and unlock the merchants, you are "done" and only need to hop around from branch to cliff and find all the scales, eggs, whatever. You don't need to do the events anymore, unless you want to do the other achivements or just do the events and meta because you want to. Or of course if the final steps for the skyscale will require you to do certain events on Dragonsfall but even then, it will probably be "do event X one time".

Unless Dragonsfall has some crazy rewards or farming that makes it worth it staying there, the map will eventually become quieter just like the other maps. A 5 day achivement is nothing compared to the amount of Exquisite Serpentite Jewels you needed to craft all the diviner's weapons and armor. Siren's Landing, Thunderhead Keep, Sandswept Islands, Kourna, Jahai Bluffs have all roughly the same population. Suprisingly, Jahai Bluffs and Sandswept Islands are noticeably more populated then the other ones. At least this is what I noticed after playing there non-stop (for achivements, dailies and fun) on all mentioned maps for the past 2 weeks. Now compare it to PoF.. people begging in chat for help to complete events that you need for the Griffon. It's heartbreaking sometimes.

The only thing that will really keep a map REALLY alive on multiple map instances are repeatable rewards like on the HoT maps. These maps are still so alive because people farm the Almageded Gemstones, Tarir loot and try their luck on the infusions from Chak Gerent.

TL;DR the Skyscale achivement will not make the map more populated then all the other LWS maps. It's the rewards for events or currency that keep the players actively busy on a map (and no, I wouldn't call 100 players pressing F on items across the map a healthy population that keeps the map busy)

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So the people who can play the game almost constantly, are fine with the time gate, while people who don't dislike it. Also saying people are entitled because they have a different point of view to yours is a weak argument.

For many the selling point for this patch was the mount. ANet did a big song and dance about it. It's not unreasonable to assume that the mount would be fairly "easy" to obtain, having it artificially blocked to force people to play content they may or may not want to play is a poor design choice imho.

No other mount is time gated in this way, and letting it slide would mean ANet would think everyone is fine with it. People are allowed to exspress there opinions against the design choice as are those who are for.

No one believed they would not have to work for it, but being forced to work for it at a set pace can be, and is jarring for a lot of people. The current set up will likely have players do what they can for the day then go do, or play something else. In this day and age where games are fighting for player retention, something like this is a poor way to do it.

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@Cristalyan.5728 said:But I thought that the intention of the developers is to offer something enjoyable after so much waiting period and not to prevent the players to complete the content.

Let's be honest here, they are not even doing that. People that would be done with the mount by now if it were not time gated, will definitely be done with the entire map once they unlock the mount, so all they achiev was to annoy the hell out of people with a terrible design

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Klowdy.3126" said:TLDR: it's a problem because people have no patience.

Maybe you should read the email that anet sent out saying that you should come play and get your "SKYSCALE TODAY"its a problem because people dont like bing lied too and bamboozled

LOL ... yeah OMG ... they are FOOLING people into playing a game they have been playing for years to come experience new content. tragic.

i guess you missed the whole part where you cant do the following statement lol

No, i didn't miss it ... I'm just realistic because I play GW2 for more than one day ... therefore it's not a big deal that it takes more than a day to get it. I'm not offended by some minor oversight because I play the game anyways and eventually I will get the mount /shrug

Well its objective to different peopleI play generally every day and it bothers me that I can do anything to progress for 24 hours so I pretty much stopped playing the content in that map till the reset happens. Unless i just want to farm unidentified gear there is no reason for me to stay there, not because of shards or exp simply because my progress is 100% locked to something i cant control no matter how hard i want to work for the new featured mount. (im sure im not the only one who is in this situation)

For others the spirit shards are a big deal, Maybe they use them up quite often and now cant not constantly get them, or perhaps some people simply do not like to waste anything such as exp gain. They have no control around the issue other than to play core or HoT content to not be wasteful or continue to gain spirit shards.

I know will i still get it after a few days. Sure im still going to do it but am i not upset, sorry to say that i am upset by it. I'll probably be one of the lucky people who gets it before the week comes to an end but the sheer disappointment of all that hard work yesterday really hurts and its clearly frustrating to many people. You might think people like me and other are being selfish and or entitled and upset for no reasons and that we should wait happily. Well people like me and others think people like you are insane for not being upset and seeing an issue there is more than one perspective here. Ive seen post here that argue that it is a problem and that its not a problem. So obviously its not an issue for everyone. But I can honestly say the "its a problem post" are certainly more active than the "its not a problem ones are."

If i was some one who took the day off (because i love the game!) to get the new mount knowing i don't have a lot of free time i would be even more upset. As some people have pointed out with their life schedule a collection that does this is going to take them weeks to finish where as the previous mounts would take a single day to get the base or a few days to unlock etc.

Keep in mind that before you say that anet wants you to enjoy the content and not blast through it.You cant enjoy something you dont own.

Having skyscales around the map to barrow was a good start if anything it was a great idea on anets part but what they can do seemingly without masteries is very limited and in most spots you have to climb to reach them. I would like to enjoy a skyscale outside of dragon fall ;) Just because you earn something quickly does not mean you stop enjoying it right away.

Anet knows season 5 is a long way off and thats why they are preparing events in the mean time to keep players interested such as the boss rush event and the upcoming event that removes the daily cap on meta events. Things like this should be things that keep players engaged during the down times between seasons not saying come get "this thing" today "we mean 5 days from now"

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I wasn't even aware there was a timegate..

I can understand timegates on crafting etc, at least at the begining anyway as they become completely unnecessary after a while and only serve to needlessly burden players later on and often discourage them from bothering with the timegated items.

Putting one on a new mount.. which lets face it is one of the big feature points of this episode just feels like a sad attempt at trolling or a practical joke.

The new mount is one thing most of us wanted to go for straight away.First we had to complete the story.. ok fine I can live with that.Then there are several collections to do.. ok fine I can live with that too and it gives me something to do.Now I find out I have to wait almost a whole week to complete everything for absolutely no good reason and i'm forced to do specific things daily if I want to have access to the mount asap otherwise it could take potentially weeks to obtain it?.. Yeah, i'm not so ok with that.

Ahh well at least the rest of the patch was good, new map is probably my personal highlight considering what it's made out of.Enjoyed the story if not for 2 events that disappointed me, one of which I found to be due to extremely lazy writing if i'm being honest.. but that was a single case event and otherwise very good patch overall.

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this person clearly thinks he's on twitter or some fantasy land calling everyone entitled... dude time is money, anet wants to sell skins and we want new content, it's simple. Have you ever tought about people that work and have families? how long would take to complete this collection if you only can play like 2h a day? time game for a mount is a terrible business decision.

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