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[merged] About the Skyscale Timegate...


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@Jayden Reese.9542 said:

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Holy dude, just go through with the 5 days and you're done. People really overexaggerate this - as if you had to climb the K2 without an oxygen flask.

Its not 5 days if you can only play on weekends, then its 21 days ;-)

Okay granted, but then you'll be 'slow' generally. They simply can't consider every playstyle.

For which playstyle is the time gate a benefit?I only see people who doesn't care about it and people who don't like it. But I have never see a response like 'Yeahhhh time gated stufff, cheeerrs'

Well, maybe I am a different kind, but somehow I liked the working towards something-appeal. I made a lot of legendaries though. Maybe I just like it. The feel of reward is bigger when you had to work for it a bit and sorry a 5 days isn't really a long time. For my first legendary in 2012 I grinded for about 3-4 months daily.

How is waiting for a timer to run out work? How is it making it feel more rewarding?You are talking about grinding daily, that's like the exact opposite of a timegate, which makes many ppl just log off for the day wihtout actually doing any more "work"

It's a step by step goal: do your daily thing, go out, have a beer with your friend, go out with great women/men and enjoy the day. There is more than just the game. You'll get it eventually. Why the hurry? You have the game since 7 years without this mount.

If you have other stuff to do right now, great, log off and do it. But how about we let ppl play when and how long they want? I play a game 5 hrs a day sometimes and then I don't play it for a month. And I am sick of devs telling me that I can't do that, because they want me to be there when next week they release the new cash shop uipdate or whatever.

I don't want to play next week, I want to play now and if I can't do that I am done with the game, pretty simple.

Really? They aren't telling you or forcing you. It's a mount and not even that great of one. Play today or the next 5 days or in a month. Get the mount in 5 days or 50 as it is all your choice. To complain to the length that you have is your issue. Find another game or not.

That's the typical response: "they are not forcing you". Many ppl play games with goals in mind. They only play if they have such a goal. A goal is only set if the time and trouble and fun is balanced with the reward.

The reward is the new mount, the fun is not there to aquire it, the time is ridiculous, for some ppl it might be 5 days but in 5 days I know I have once more lost any interest in playing the same game with the same mechanics and the same rewards and feeling. So for me it's more like months. Therefore the fun, time and trouble of getting this reward is not worth to set a goal for it.

And looking at what else this update has brought, a new map, to farm more gold that I don't need, a new armor set that I visually don't like and that's it. So yes the mount right now was my only goal and I just found out that it's not worth going for it anymore.

The only thing I don't understand is why ppl would actively defend or advocate for getting timegating in, as no one profits from that.

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I like how people that simply don't care about it are just saying "get over it" . If you don't care and simply has nothing constructive to say, just stay quiet in your place and enjoy the game. Actually why are you here and not playing the timegated content you like so much ? There are plenty of design flaws here. The main factor imo is that for us, the player base, they just randomly decided to put a timegate and boring collection fetch quest to get something that has been marketed and hyped by the community for months, something that never had this sort of mechanic before. Is it really so out there to not be satisfied with it ? If you like it or are indifferent to it, good for you. You could always take the time you wanted, but guess what, other people can't play the game at their own pace and have had a pretty frustrating experience like being time locked out of content for a whole day because of 10 min. If you can play the game as much as you want , again thats great for you. Not everyone can do that, some ppl even took time of work just to work on the mount, but now they have nothing to do.

Anet should at least have told us that. "Hey it will take 5 days at least to get the mount btw, it will be time gated to the daily reset " so ppl could schedule their play time properly and not have it completely wasted. If you enjoyed being time gated without any warning at all after collecting 61 items , great, but maybe some people won't enjoy that experience for plenty of reasons.

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My problem with the timegate overall is the purpose of it.

It has no purpose other than to prevent what? People getting it early?

Again I’m certain that if it’s fine to you that it wouldn’t even be a wanted/needed thing if not implemented in the first place. People got lives outside of this game, locking one of the most hype features of the game behind a timegate is not all that good.

They could of made it make more sense, at least group them up behind the daily resets making it two daily resets. Everybody got to put in the same work right, it’s just those who got more RL things to do have to wait longer so we’re essentially being punished. Here is one thing we don’t know, how tedious and annoying the other achievements are, because hopefully it doesn’t take a long time to do like the Newborn one. Which then it’s a little more forgivable. At least on my end.

And again it’s cool it doesn’t bother y’all, the problem was if it was needed? The only purpose it served was to annoy people who don’t like timegated collections, sense of progression is not timegated stuff in the way it’s utilized. Even then it’s what you are doing. Collecting what? 50 plus items a day? For the base mount? Smh.

I’d understand that achievement be for a unique skin which would be really cool, cause if you got the base mount say the first day or two then it’ll be something else to go for.

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@ProtoGunner.4953 said:

People who complain about grind are the first ones who complain about that there is nothing to do.So that excuses terrible design like this ? Really what is your point ? If they have to do this to keep people playing there is already not much to do in the map, and everyone that would be done with the collection if it werent time gated , will definetly be done with the new map, when they get the mount, so GG in making artificially lengthy and boring content that won't solve what you are trying to avoid anyway.

Also we all know legendary gear take time, it has been established before, no one would expect the new greatsword to be fast or easy to get. Mounts are completely different and again, most of the upsetting experience could have been avoided if Anet had been honest about it and just told us from the start. Then you guys could have had weeks to say that this is fine and people that don't have much time anyway could organize they schedules to play as efficient as possible.

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This is an artificial time gate plain and simple. Players don't like it. Time gates are stupid and need to go die in a hole. If you can complete the content, then you get the rewards. If your game isn't interesting enough for people to keep playing it, then the problem is not the players "rushing" things.

White horses and developers need to stop blaming players for not liking a bad design.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:While I'm no fan of time gating as it feels arbitrary, i don't think it's as bad as a lot of people make it out to be.They're just preventing people from being done on day 1.I mean, even the story could be finished by in an hour.

Exactly. One hour content + 2-3 hours map completion and some events. This is the entire episode. Delayed and delayed again. To hide this they dilluted the content on 5 separate days. Stopping your progress to the mount even if you want to spend this effort. Is this a good design?

It's MMO design ... I don't get why this concept is so offensive to people ... I've yet to play an MMO where you don't see one of two things:
  1. Blast through new content
  2. Grind through new content

Either way, there are people that complain about it. That says nothing of the design being good or bad. We have content in this game that spans the spectrum of both.

Because you seem to forget what most MMOs offer with new updates. They offer a set of rewards that then can be aquired through new game modes or new mechanics, new character progression etc. If all you have after 7 years is the base game unchanged with a few new classes and then you throw every 4 months a new map in that ppl play for 3 hrs then that's not good game design.

The mounts offer new game mechanics, at least in the way you move around in the game. They offer new customization etc. That's why ppl got so excited, not only about the mount but about the episode itself. Having the mount behind a timer that is longer than the time many ppl can bear running around and doing the same year old gameloop in yet another map.

And having the most tedious and soulless and unfun collections on top of the time gating is not making it any better.

So why are you here defending something like timegating? We all already know it's a game. We are here to tell anet that what they implemented sucks and we want them to make it better. We're not here because our lives ended and we're falling into depression. If you think we're only crying then I don't honestly know why you are going to the one place where ppl criticize and give feedback for the devs.

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@"Ghostrider.6879" said:I had little to no reason to login in the past few months because nothing is really happening and I don't like SAB stuff.Now that they gave me a little bit of incentive to login and a goal to work towards. I am actually quite happy that.That said I've been playing quite a lot of warframe lately, which took "timegate" and "grinding" to a whole new level.

Warframe made it a norm and you can use plat to skip most of the timegated stuff. So there where options. Which to me is very important.

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So once you’ve completed all masteries of a particular type, the XP goes to shards?! I had no idea! I’ve been wasting my life, LOL! XD I hadn’t bothered to hunt down final mastery points to fully unlock legendary crafting because until I had any desire to craft one, why bother? Well now I know my next objective!

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Here is way i say it again gates are ok for games but gates should never slow progress by 100%

Lets look at legendaries as an example

When making a legendary there are several gifts and masteries items you need to makeDuring this process you know you also need to max the required crafting profession based on what you are makingDuring the process you know you will need to save lots of mats and goldEven if say you have completed fractals for the day bought your 2 clovers you can still work to finishing masteries and gifts of other types. Other methods don't stop you from collecting or buying mats or saving gold. Generally so much work goes into a legendary that you are always are progressing in some way or fashion even if the overall process takes you a few months your progress is rarely stopped to 0% (granted you know what you are doing)

In the case of roller mount the gates for the collection were world bosses (mostly) I managed to finish it in 1 day (i got lucky with my world boss timing so it took overall 2-3 hours)

In the case of warclaw the gate was mostly the reward track (im not a wvw main) I simply played on borderlands for roughly 2.5 hours and got the base mount unlocked (i still dont have all its masteries but at least im able to enjoy it and use it when i pop into wvw)

These gates above slowed your progress to getting the mounts and didn't allow you to obtain them instantly but never were you fully stopped from making progress for a dead drop long period of time. Even players who cant play very much or every day with some help from friends or other players could make significant progress in their limited time to at least gain the base mounts that released in the past.

This is THE FIRST mount anet has gated through a 24 hour lockdown in which 0% progress can be made toward it this will happen 5 different times and the following 3 or 4 collections that we cant see we have no idea what will be required to complete them. Remember it could even be more than 3-4 collections as the first part was 4 separate collections that completed 1 collection. If the following ones are also like this it could mean that some of them could not reasonable be done within a days time extending that 5 day minimum.

Anet could have gated the mount and i would have been ok so long as i could still progress if I was willing to play and work hard for it. Even if it took me some one who plays every day for several hours days to complete it i would be ok with it (maybe mildly grumpy at most). Ill be lucky to get it by sunday if i complete each required collection per day before reset as it stands right now and im still very upset by it because the mount was probably a solid 70% of the main attraction of this update for me. The story was not bad but it was not good either the fights were actually nice (not over complexed) I would and am going to totally replay them because overall the story had me hype as far as the play through goes. The writing was meh though... i didn't like some key points (i wont name them here) but overall not bad it did feel rushed. I was at least expecting as much story as the previous episode (took 2 hours to play through) i was surprised this one was only an hour and i was not even rushing.

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The reason people are upset is that with PoF, ANet ALREADY HAD A DESIGN to introduce mounts that didn't waste experience, and wasn't artificially gated. WHY couldn't they just have introduced the mount as part of the story like the raptor, bunny, skimmer, and doggo. It's like they don't even play their own game sometimes.

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I think that the mount should require a good amount of work to get but not time gated.

Lets be honest the mount is cool in all but the handling feels super kludgy and while its a cool gimmicky mount I don't see my self using it that often. Maybe like city sitting or when I need to go AFK in the middle of a map. In my mind I thought this mount would be a game changer but after taking for a test drive. I have changed my mind. If it were a vehicle I would return to the dealer because it needs work. Maybe it will get better once I actually have the mount with all the masteries it may get a tad better but not much. The skills you get from masteries from what I remember from the video is being able to mount while in the air. This is great in all but does not change the feel of the mount. Dashing forward/evading this could help with the mobility issue that I feel while I'm using it. Wall Grip which allows you to recharge your "Flying Juice". This may help a tad but I don't see this being super helpful because you are not always near something you can grip on to.

TLDR:Mount is not good enough to actually get me to absolutely need it promptly so I am in no rush.

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@RizelStar.3724 said:

@"Ghostrider.6879" said:I had little to no reason to login in the past few months because nothing is really happening and I don't like SAB stuff.Now that they gave me a little bit of incentive to login and a goal to work towards. I am actually quite happy that.That said I've been playing quite a lot of warframe lately, which took "timegate" and "grinding" to a whole new level.

Warframe made it a norm and you can use plat to skip most of the timegated stuff. So there where options. Which to me is very important.

Also, warframe releases in their major updates more than Anet releases in terms of new features/mechanics etc in an entire year or more, so even if you hve tons of timegated stuff in Warframe, the amount of content and goals you can set yourself while the timer is running is in no comparison to GW2, where you can count the amount of goals, as a longterm player at least, that comes into the game with a new update after 4 months with one single hand.

And what do you do if the one goal you have set for yourself is timegated? In many cases this will mean that you will log off or stop pursuing that goal and at the end stop playing the game

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@Adenin.5973 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:While I'm no fan of time gating as it feels arbitrary, i don't think it's as bad as a lot of people make it out to be.They're just preventing people from being done on day 1.I mean, even the story could be finished by in an hour.

Exactly. One hour content + 2-3 hours map completion and some events. This is the entire episode. Delayed and delayed again. To hide this they dilluted the content on 5 separate days. Stopping your progress to the mount even if you want to spend this effort. Is this a good design?

It's MMO design ... I don't get why this concept is so offensive to people ... I've yet to play an MMO where you don't see one of two things:
  1. Blast through new content
  2. Grind through new content

Either way, there are people that complain about it. That says nothing of the design being good or bad. We have content in this game that spans the spectrum of both.

Because you seem to forget what most MMOs offer with new updates. They offer a set of rewards that then can be aquired through new game modes or new mechanics, new character progression etc. If all you have after 7 years is the base game unchanged with a few new classes and then you throw every 4 months a new map in that ppl play for 3 hrs then that's not good game design.

That has nothing to do with time gating.

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I am 1000% fine with the timegate. All people seem to want to do anymore is rush through content so they can get that first reaction and then bitch and whine about not having anything to do for the next 3-4 months. Take your time and enjoy the time and effort the devs put in rather than speeding through.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"Klowdy.3126" said:TLDR: it's a problem because people have no patience.

Maybe you should read the email that anet sent out saying that you should come play and get your "SKYSCALE TODAY"its a problem because people dont like bing lied too and bamboozled

LOL ... yeah OMG ... they are FOOLING people into playing a game they have been playing for years to come experience new content. tragic.

i guess you missed the whole part where you cant do the following statement lol

No, i didn't miss it ... I'm just realistic because I play GW2 for more than one day ... therefore it's not a big deal that it takes more than a day to get it. I'm not offended by some minor oversight because I play the game anyways and eventually I will get the mount /shrug

Well its objective to different peopleI play generally every day and it bothers me that I can do anything to progress for 24 hours so I pretty much stopped playing the content in that map till the reset happens.

Then the design of the map is successful ... because Anet want people to do some, come back, etc ... that's why time gating exists. And that's not unreasonable ... because it's not designed so that you get everything done in one day then wonder why we don't have new content more often. It's all related and it's how any MMO works ... somehow you pay. And that somehow is what keeps you coming back and playing.

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Look I am not going to say they shouldn't have hidden the Mastery track, they should have, but are you seriously avoiding playing arguably the best meta event - one that is absurdly rewarding and showering everyone with piles of rare gear - because you aren't getting spirit shards?

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@Obtena.7952 said:

Then the design of the map is successful ... because Anet want people to do some, come back, etc ... that's why time gating exists. And that's not unreasonable ... because it's not designed so that you get everything done in one day then wonder why we don't have new content more often. It's all related and it's how any MMO works ... somehow you pay. And that somehow is what keeps you coming back and playing.

People are already nearly done with the map lol. Everything else can be done quite easily, with no timegate, except the one of the main features , which is the mount. Really it seems that you didnt even play the game. The only thing time locked is the mount. If they want people can be done with the map before they get the skygated mount.

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V> @TempestMoon.5403 said:

I am 1000% fine with the timegate. All people seem to want to do anymore is rush through content so they can get that first reaction and then kitten and whine about not having anything to do for the next 3-4 months. Take your time and enjoy the time and effort the devs put in rather than speeding through.

Yea but that’s done by force...by the devs, people who claim there is nothing to do then that’s on them. Forcing people who don’t like timegates but wold still take their time anyways is not a good thing(I’ll say imo).

So you’re fine for it not being a problem for you there is nothing wrong with that, but something I’ve yet to see is why it’s a good/needed addition. So far it’s just their to do nothing or to annoy people.

As an above person said it could be to keep people on the map longer which is a fair conclusion, yet the map itself is good IMO, it didn’t need a timegate to keep me and people who actually like the game to stay longer in it.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:While I'm no fan of time gating as it feels arbitrary, i don't think it's as bad as a lot of people make it out to be.They're just preventing people from being done on day 1.I mean, even the story could be finished by in an hour.

Exactly. One hour content + 2-3 hours map completion and some events. This is the entire episode. Delayed and delayed again. To hide this they dilluted the content on 5 separate days. Stopping your progress to the mount even if you want to spend this effort. Is this a good design?

It's MMO design ... I don't get why this concept is so offensive to people ... I've yet to play an MMO where you don't see one of two things:
  1. Blast through new content
  2. Grind through new content

Either way, there are people that complain about it. That says nothing of the design being good or bad. We have content in this game that spans the spectrum of both.

Because you seem to forget what most MMOs offer with new updates. They offer a set of rewards that then can be aquired through new game modes or new mechanics, new character progression etc. If all you have after 7 years is the base game unchanged with a few new classes and then you throw every 4 months a new map in that ppl play for 3 hrs then that's not good game design.

That has nothing to do with time gating.

It has. Look at other games like Warframe. Pretty much every single thing you do there is timegated. Why is that not a problem.

  • You can pay RL cash to have it instantly
  • The amount of other goals you can set for yourself while the timer is running is in no comparison to GW2

Warframe releases so incredibly much more new features, mechanics, weapons, mods + overhauls tons of existing stuff with each of their major patches. So if you look forawrd to the newest warframe update where a new warframe gets released and the thing is timegated behind a grindfest and then also behind a 24-48hr timer, then that's not a problem because:

  • New weapons with entirely new mechanics behind them
  • New mods
  • New factions, with new mods and new weapons with new mechanics
  • Complete feature overhauls
  • New featuresAnd so much more.

So while in GW2 as a longterm player, you had like 1-2 goals coming with this patch and 1 was finished pretty quickly and the other is timegated, there's nothing exciting for you to do. You now have to pretty much wait for a timer to run out.

While in Warframe for example the grind for the new goal is exciting due to overhauls and new mods and weapons and there might be new game modes to grind in and then when you wait there are 10 other things you want to have, that just got released.

So yes, amount of content, new feature, game modes etc. are absolutely what can make or break something like timegating.

However timegating is a methof for the studio to earn more money. Warframe devs do it but they do it right. GW2 devs also do it but iomo it's done completely wrong and it doesn't suit their game and content.

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@RizelStar.3724 said:V> @TempestMoon.5403 said:

I am 1000% fine with the timegate. All people seem to want to do anymore is rush through content so they can get that first reaction and then kitten and whine about not having anything to do for the next 3-4 months. Take your time and enjoy the time and effort the devs put in rather than speeding through.

Yea but that’s done by force...by the devs, people who claim there is nothing to do then that’s on them. Forcing people who don’t like timegates but wold still take their time anyways is not a good thing(I’ll say imo).

So you’re fine for it not being a problem for you there is nothing wrong with that, but something I’ve yet to see is why it’s a good/needed addition. So far it’s just their to do nothing or to annoy people.

As an above person said it could be to keep people on the map longer which is a fair conclusion, yet the map itself is good IMO, it didn’t need a timegate to keep me and people who actually like the game to stay longer in it.

The mount itself is not a required aspect of the game. You're not forced to unlock it so you can progress the story or even do the map. So what purpose does it serve to make players feel as though they have to have the mount on the first day? If that were the case then I could see the argument for hindering progress but as it is its an unnecessary perk.

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@Adenin.5973 said:

@"Ghostrider.6879" said:I had little to no reason to login in the past few months because nothing is really happening and I don't like SAB stuff.Now that they gave me a little bit of incentive to login and a goal to work towards. I am actually quite happy that.That said I've been playing quite a lot of warframe lately, which took "timegate" and "grinding" to a whole new level.

Warframe made it a norm and you can use plat to skip most of the timegated stuff. So there where options. Which to me is very important.

Also, warframe releases in their major updates more than Anet releases in terms of new features/mechanics etc in an entire year or more, so even if you hve tons of timegated stuff in Warframe, the amount of content and goals you can set yourself while the timer is running is in no comparison to GW2, where you can count the amount of goals, as a longterm player at least, that comes into the game with a new update after 4 months with one single hand.

And what do you do if the one goal you have set for yourself is timegated? In many cases this will mean that you will log off or stop pursuing that goal and at the end stop playing the game

I agree, that and it was believable in game to know that getting a blueprint to manifest in a machine would take hours/days.

So the timegate there served an actual purpose not to keep you in game longer, in fact it built while offline and not to keep the game populated. That’s with it being optional. And not dependent on a daily reset either.

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@ProtoGunner.4953 said:

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Holy dude, just go through with the 5 days and you're done. People really overexaggerate this - as if you had to climb the K2 without an oxygen flask.

Its not 5 days if you can only play on weekends, then its 21 days ;-)

Okay granted, but then you'll be 'slow' generally. They simply can't consider every playstyle.

Yes they can...don't put time gates in.

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