Jump to content
  • Sign Up

[merged] About the Skyscale Timegate...


Recommended Posts

I hate hard time gates, they are just an arbitrary and lazy way for the developers to stretch their content further. It does not benefit the player in any way and they are not fun. It's a brash way to force the player participate in content they may not want at that time for the sake of the reward.

For those who say "it makes people take their time and enjoy the content more instead of rushing through it." No, it doesn't. It makes me hate the content more because I have to play it that day for the sake of not missing out on "wasted time" instead of just, say, doing a collection for a bit when I feel like it. So what if subset of people want to rush to get it. They should be able to enjoy the game how they want. Maybe they have their own real life time restrictions and doing it over a day/weekend it is their mostpractical use of time to acquire it. Anet shouldn't be telling people how to best use their time.

For all those who say you should have to 'work' for it (I should specify that I consider work doing something you don't enjoy). It's a game, entertainment, something you do for enjoyment. I shouldn't have to work for anything. Specifically it's an RPG, I should progress naturally as a result of playing. How ticked off would you be if you were playing Skyrim and go to talk to the greybeards but...wait, you have to wait 23h-59m to do that action. Awesome, through the use of time gates Bethesda has doubled the play time of Skyrim! But did they, really? :I

There are sooo many better ways to do this than a hard time gate. They could use a soft time gates like:

  • Collections that require semi-rare RNG drops from map event bosses
  • Larger collections
  • A crafted item (Saddle?) that you have to gather map specific items for. (so basically a collection + crafting).

Now, hard time gates on items make sense in regards to the in game economy but as far as I'm aware the skyscale has no economic value. It's just for prestige like the griffon. Before you someone says it, yes, something can still have prestige and not have to have a hard time gated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@MokahTGS.7850 said:

@"Klowdy.3126" said:TLDR: it's a problem because people have no patience.

Maybe you should read the email that anet sent out saying that you should come play and get your "SKYSCALE TODAY"its a problem because people dont like bing lied too and bamboozled

LOL ... yeah OMG ... they are FOOLING people into playing a game they have been playing for years to come experience new content. tragic.

i guess you missed the whole part where you cant do the following statement lol

No, i didn't miss it ... I'm just realistic because I play GW2 for more than one day ... therefore it's not a big deal that it takes more than a day to get it. I'm not offended by some minor oversight because I play the game anyways and eventually I will get the mount /shrug

That's great for you that apparently has nothing to do all day but play GW2, some of us have jobs and families and RL so we are unable to sit and play for hours on end, which means I MIGHT be able to get it by Christmas but I'm not holding my breath.

I have a job and family, etc ... that's why time gating doesn't bother me ... because I know I will be playing over a series of days. Time gating doesn't bother people like us.

So do I and I completely disagree with you. Please do not try to speak for everyone with your opinion. Your experience does not equate to my experience.

It's not an opinion. Time gating content benefits players with less time to play because it forces the whole population to spread out their time on the content resulting in everyone playing more like the people with less time to play. That means people with less time to play will be ensured a more populated map.

Besides ... what makes you think your experience equates to how the game generally works for people and why that means time gated content is bad? It's bad for you maybe, though i don't see how based on your description of how you play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@"tekhiun.8653" said:

All they managed to with this cheap design was make me want to play another game tbf.

And you are going to pay somehow in that game too. Don't fool yourself into thinking GW2 is some exception to MMO design fundamentals.

At one point, ANet thought differently.

From:

OK ... nothing to say that can't change ... or that Anet gets wise. I know Anet wants to do things different than other MMO's but the fact is that players will always be able to finish content faster than devs can make it ... so it's a fundamental fact that MMO's need to make players pay somehow to keep them playing. This thread is actually a really good example of what would happen if there wasn't devices in MMO's to make players pay. Players would just slam through the content as fast as they could and never go back because there was no 'pay' to keep them playing. MMO's are FILLED with mechanics and devices to make players pay ... and GW2 was NEVER an exception to that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Klowdy.3126" said:TLDR: it's a problem because people have no patience.

Maybe you should read the email that anet sent out saying that you should come play and get your "SKYSCALE TODAY"its a problem because people dont like bing lied too and bamboozled

LOL ... yeah OMG ... they are FOOLING people into playing a game they have been playing for years to come experience new content. tragic.

i guess you missed the whole part where you cant do the following statement lol

No, i didn't miss it ... I'm just realistic because I play GW2 for more than one day ... therefore it's not a big deal that it takes more than a day to get it. I'm not offended by some minor oversight because I play the game anyways and eventually I will get the mount /shrug

That's great for you that apparently has nothing to do all day but play GW2, some of us have jobs and families and RL so we are unable to sit and play for hours on end, which means I MIGHT be able to get it by Christmas but I'm not holding my breath.

I have a job and family, etc ... that's why time gating doesn't bother me ... because I know I will be playing over a series of days. Time gating doesn't bother people like us.

So do I and I completely disagree with you. Please do not try to speak for everyone with your opinion. Your experience does not equate to my experience.

It's not an opinion. Time gating content benefits players with less time to play because it forces the whole population to spread out their time on the content resulting in everyone playing more like the people with less time to play. That means people with less time to play will be ensured a more populated map.

It is an opinion. What if a person works 6 days a week without access to play and only gets to play for a few hours on the 7th day? You just exponentially hurt those people who have less time to play. It tires to force players to populate a map, it doesn't ensure they will though. If no one enjoys the map content most people wont play it. The enjoyment of the content should attract players, not a time gate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eh, people can call me "entitled" if they want but clearly, unlike seemingly a lot of time-gate defenders here, I am an adult that work full time 50 hours a week, I have adult responsibilities and have to juggle some semblance of a family/social life like most average people. So I maybe get a few hours of free time a night if that (and I cant always waste them on GW2).

Now I 'love' dragons. They are my favorite mythological creature, so I was more than hyped when we learned we were getting a dragon mount. Anet kept shoving it in our faces and such. When the patch hit I was ready to jump in and start earning it. I figured there'd be a big collection (and boy was I not wrong, maybe its just me getting old but man is the collection absurdly long and boring.) but I was willing to slowly grind through it in the few precious hours of free time i had.

The timegate has killed any hype I had for the mount sadly, knowing that even if I maximize my play time, it would probably take over a month to get this thing. Im not a college student or a young adult/teen working partime that has multiple days off a week that you can play 9+ hours a day non stop back to back. And knowing that something I could slowly grind out over say a week, will actually take me weeks if not months due to timegates, kinda killed my hype. After finishing the story I dont actually really have any desire to log back in. Im just kinda worn out.

But I'm just rambling and just wanted a place to speak my mind/vent. Im sure people will just call me entitled, tell me Im doing things wrong or how I shouldnt feel X way. But hey. It's w/e.

sincerelyA worn out norn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Zexanima.7851 said:

@"Klowdy.3126" said:TLDR: it's a problem because people have no patience.

Maybe you should read the email that anet sent out saying that you should come play and get your "SKYSCALE TODAY"its a problem because people dont like bing lied too and bamboozled

LOL ... yeah OMG ... they are FOOLING people into playing a game they have been playing for years to come experience new content. tragic.

i guess you missed the whole part where you cant do the following statement lol

No, i didn't miss it ... I'm just realistic because I play GW2 for more than one day ... therefore it's not a big deal that it takes more than a day to get it. I'm not offended by some minor oversight because I play the game anyways and eventually I will get the mount /shrug

That's great for you that apparently has nothing to do all day but play GW2, some of us have jobs and families and RL so we are unable to sit and play for hours on end, which means I MIGHT be able to get it by Christmas but I'm not holding my breath.

I have a job and family, etc ... that's why time gating doesn't bother me ... because I know I will be playing over a series of days. Time gating doesn't bother people like us.

So do I and I completely disagree with you. Please do not try to speak for everyone with your opinion. Your experience does not equate to my experience.

It's not an opinion. Time gating content benefits players with less time to play because it forces the whole population to spread out their time on the content resulting in everyone playing more like the people with less time to play. That means people with less time to play will be ensured a more populated map.

It is an opinion. What if a person works 6 days a week without access to play and only gets to play for a few hours on the 7th day? You just exponentially hurt those people who have less time to play. It tires to force players to populate a map, it doesn't ensure they will though. If no one enjoys the map content most people wont play it. The enjoyment of the content should attract players, not a time gate.

What about it? When they can play, they can go do the time gated content ... what's the problem? It's not like the map will be abandoned in 1 week. That's a ridiculous appeal to an exceptionally absurd scenario.

Sure if no one enjoys it, no one will play it ... except we have experience that says people still play old maps so ... something missing from your analysis there. Time gate isn't there to attract the players. It's there to slow the play to a pace of that content.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not only did Anet not tell anyone during any Live Streams or Announcements that this was time-gated for at least 5 days, but they also did not specify to anyone that if you want to get the mount by Saturday, make sure to hammer the game as hard as possible today before 7:00PM CST or you're cucked until the next day at the same time!

Really though, just read Drewan.5681's comment two above - They explain how it affects people who do not treat this game as a job and it explains why this is morally wrong.

Time-gates have absolutely no positive benefit unless you are purposely trying to cause a stir in the community to find out if you should start following "Phone Game-based" time-gates. And the only reason those have any positive effect at all is that it forces people to either 1) Pay to play or 2) Causes controversy to give the game attention on social media. Just look at other MMOs and games that time-gate content--people are leaving them and incidentally they came here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Klowdy.3126" said:TLDR: it's a problem because people have no patience.

Maybe you should read the email that anet sent out saying that you should come play and get your "SKYSCALE TODAY"its a problem because people dont like bing lied too and bamboozled

LOL ... yeah OMG ... they are FOOLING people into playing a game they have been playing for years to come experience new content. tragic.

i guess you missed the whole part where you cant do the following statement lol

No, i didn't miss it ... I'm just realistic because I play GW2 for more than one day ... therefore it's not a big deal that it takes more than a day to get it. I'm not offended by some minor oversight because I play the game anyways and eventually I will get the mount /shrug

That's great for you that apparently has nothing to do all day but play GW2, some of us have jobs and families and RL so we are unable to sit and play for hours on end, which means I MIGHT be able to get it by Christmas but I'm not holding my breath.

I have a job and family, etc ... that's why time gating doesn't bother me ... because I know I will be playing over a series of days. Time gating doesn't bother people like us.

So do I and I completely disagree with you. Please do not try to speak for everyone with your opinion. Your experience does not equate to my experience.

It's not an opinion. Time gating content benefits players with less time to play because it forces the whole population to spread out their time on the content resulting in everyone playing more like the people with less time to play. That means people with less time to play will be ensured a more populated map.

It is an opinion. What if a person works 6 days a week without access to play and only gets to play for a few hours on the 7th day? You just exponentially hurt those people who have less time to play. It tires to force players to populate a map, it doesn't ensure they will though. If no one enjoys the map content most people wont play it. The enjoyment of the content should attract players, not a time gate.

What about it? When they can play, they can go do the time gated content ... what's the problem? It's not like the map will be abandoned in 1 week. That's a ridiculous appeal to an exceptionally absurd scenario.

Sure if no one enjoys it, no one will play it ... except we have experience that says people still play old maps so ... something missing from your analysis there. Time gate isn't there to attract the players. It's there to slow the play to a pace of that content.

The problem is it will take them exponentially longer to acquire. I was addressing the fallacy in you saying it was fact (you said it wasn't opinion, and the opposite of that is a fact) that it will benefit people with less time. It is not, you were wrong. It's kind of insulting to the hundred of thousands of people who work long hours/weeks to say it's an "exceptionally absurd scenario". It's pretty common around where I am.

Just because people are playing a map doesn't mean they enjoy it. It could just be tolerable enough and have a good enough reward to warrant doing it.That's perfectly okay, in small amounts. In an MMO environment the player won't be having the time of their life 100% of the time. GW2 relies on this way too much though so I'm going to call them out for it because if they keep it up it's going to become more akin to a mobile skinner box game than the GW2 experience we all enjoy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Deihnyx.6318" said:I'm glad these people never attempted to get legendary armors. That's some real timegate for you.This... is nothing. I'm sorry.

Not everything has to be readily available.

You are comparing apples and oranges there. One is end game best in slot stuff, the other is a mount that was the "selling point" of the patch. One is supposed to be worked for over weeks/months/years, the other should take a few hours. The only reason the time gate has been added to keep the people who play the story, then stop playing till the next one comes out, playing the game.

Personally I like to play games at my pace, not one artificially set to keep me playing longer than I want to or expected to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Nyarlathotep.4350 said:, ALL my experience towards spirit shards in EVERY Path of Fire and LS4 map are now timegated as well and everything I do in those maps on any of my characters is wasted experience. This is going to limit any activity in those maps to only absolutely necessary things for me until I get the Skyscale down.

A logical solution would be for the XP bar to only be locked while on the new map, and allow you to collect XP on another other LW or PoF map. I know that's not how it is designed, but perhaps an easy fix?

Otherwise, I heartily recommend HoT metas to you. I usually get about 1-2 shards per AB meta, and every Treasure Mushroom you delete also rewards you with a shard. Add in Tangled Depths along with their T-Mushes, you could net about 5 shards in an hours work?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@CJtheBigBear.9610 said:But sinking the time into it wasn't the issue. I'm not afraid to put time into something, but the main problem is that it forces you to play at a certain time if you want it. Compare it to the Griffon collections. When I was doing those, I could take two or three out of my day to hop on and do a few things, then stop and pick back up when I wanted to. As a result, it did take me probably a good week and half or so to fully finish the Griffon, barring the gold-locked stuff, which evened it out to about two weeks. Assuming I spent exactly 2 hours a day, for a week, that's 14 hours of playtime to get the Griffon.

I just want to make sure this is reiterated, as it's the entire point of most people who don't like the timegate. It's not that I want the Skyscale immediately or in less than one day of gameplay. I just want to be able to do it at my own pace, when I have time, and the timegate messes with that in a way that's never happened with anything else I've experienced in GW2. For a game that's long been a do-it-at-your-own-pace product, this is uncharacteristic and frankly annoyingly out of character. GW2, to me, has always been a game that respected my decision to give it my time. Every minute I put into actively playing could give me meaningful progress towards something, and I never felt pressured by anything in the game design to log in absolutely every chance I had.

With the skyscale, for the first time in four years of playing, I feel like I'm losing out by not chipping away at it every free moment I have, and ironically that makes me want to log in even less.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't understand why there are so many comments saying "I don't see why people are so bothered by this." directly sandwiched between people stating exactly why they're bothered by this, and then acting like people just want instant gratification with no effort.

I'm not going to regurgitate why the time-gate itself is a huge issue for people with limited playtime, because myself and others have already explained that quite enough. So instead I'll talk about why the issues with this mount are non-comparable to legendary gear, since people seem to be trying to make the comparison. We all know legendary gear is time-gated, it's a major reason why some people just don't want to do legendary crafting. And when they do, at least they know exactly how much time and effort it should take. Legendary crafting has always been the same.

Mounts, on the other hand, have never had a time-gate. The griffon took a collection of story completion gold, events, and a scavenger hunt to get. The beetle took story completion, and a few quick [albeit scattered] collections. Neither of those had a time-gate, and we were given no indication that this mount would be time-gated. People were gearing up since the announcement to snag the new mount, and some people even took time off of work to do the same thing they'd done for the beetle, and were suddenly met with a pointless time-gate. Cue all the issues we've been talking about.

And for the people saying that we're just upset that we aren't getting "instant gratification"; you must have a very odd definition of instant. The first collection alone took myself and others at most 5 to 6 hours to finish. With 5 collections altogether, that'd mean it'd take 25 - 30 hours to finish the whole thing without the time-gates. I know 30 isn't much compared to some other in-game content, but that hardly seems instant, does it? And that's not even including the time to train its 3 mastery tracks. We know and are fine with it taking time, but the time-gate makes it so difficult because of [many reasons above this comment.]

The true irony of this time-gate is that people seem to want to tell us to "just play it at a slower pace", while not realizing that the daily reset deadline makes us have to rush through the content that we would otherwise take slower if we want to get the mount anytime soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Katastroff.1045 said:Seriously, That much crib shaking for a 4-5 days time gate???

Yup, welcome to the forums. You'll see the people that have jobs and lives or whatever with this mount in a few days with no issues.

It's not a matter of can't, it's a matter of people don't want to. And at that point, it's fine, they just won't have the mount. There's someone in my discord that works over 50+ hours that's doing her collections as we speak.

People will live, learn, and move on. At this point I've already learned to not pay attention to these boards because it's nothing but others complaining about the most arbitrary things that other gamers would laugh at.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Klowdy.3126" said:TLDR: it's a problem because people have no patience.

Maybe you should read the email that anet sent out saying that you should come play and get your "SKYSCALE TODAY"its a problem because people dont like bing lied too and bamboozled

LOL ... yeah OMG ... they are FOOLING people into playing a game they have been playing for years to come experience new content. tragic.

i guess you missed the whole part where you cant do the following statement lol

No, i didn't miss it ... I'm just realistic because I play GW2 for more than one day ... therefore it's not a big deal that it takes more than a day to get it. I'm not offended by some minor oversight because I play the game anyways and eventually I will get the mount /shrug

That's great for you that apparently has nothing to do all day but play GW2, some of us have jobs and families and RL so we are unable to sit and play for hours on end, which means I MIGHT be able to get it by Christmas but I'm not holding my breath.

I have a job and family, etc ... that's why time gating doesn't bother me ... because I know I will be playing over a series of days. Time gating doesn't bother people like us.

So do I and I completely disagree with you. Please do not try to speak for everyone with your opinion. Your experience does not equate to my experience.

It's not an opinion. Time gating content benefits players with less time to play because it forces the whole population to spread out their time on the content resulting in everyone playing more like the people with less time to play. That means people with less time to play will be ensured a more populated map.

I only agree with you here when it comes to items or events that generally cause 1 player to gain powerful items and or methods to make lots of gold fore example. Raids/fractals are time gated people cant simply run them over and over again for good ez currency and rewards. To allow this could allow a small niche of players to upset the market and or community as a whole. While this is still not impossible for a small niche number of players to do via super lucky rng its not easy to do.

Imagine what would happen if players could get meta map rewards constantly with no daily limit (this will be an even for a short time ) but think about it if it was all the time do you know how quickly the market would shift and become upset by the imbalance.

Now lets talk mountsThis mount benefits the owner and only the owner, It wont make the owner more gold, it wont give the owner better stats, and it wont make the owner a god in pvp or wvw. It wont move its owner faster than other mounts and while its abilities are unique other mounts still have their own place in their respective skills.

So how is this a benefit....

Oh right it spread it out so the map stays populated longer.... ok fair point but what happens after 5 days map population drops and the same result happens all you did was stall it out slightly. What if the collection for a day or two pretty much requires the player to not even do the events or metas in the map and instead mostly send you out for a wild goose chase. Or it sends you to one of the other maps or around the world looking for other items sure you might be in dragon fall but what if you are not participating in the meta events. I know i was not while i was looking for scales, and eggs i almost blatantly ignored the events. When I could no longer progress i left the map and went to pvp... if a good chunk of people play this way how is this helping maps peek in population for a few hours at reset then fall in the off hours till reset again for the next 5 days after which frustrated players return to their normal methods of play sure they might come back for a meta or two every now and again or to farm loot for gold.

But it litterally does not benfit anyone all that much. All this did is frustrate people who are bothered by it and to ignore the fact that it bothers so many people and act like "Because it does not bother me it should not bother you" is just ignorance at its finest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@ZDragon.3046 said:I would gladly pay my own hard earned gold to unlock the mount over waiting 5 days as i have control over working to earn and or save gold and spend it on what i choose as my reward but i dont have control over waiting 24 hours in which progress cannot be made at all. You simply have to wait which is frustrating... as the main feature i was really looking forward too the most its very upsetting to know wont be getting the thing i wanted most from the update for several more days.So, do you remember these forums when PoF came out? Do you remember all these people complaining cause the gryphon was a gold sink? Too expensive?No matter what, -absolutely no matter what- if some content cannot be acquired immediately some people will complain about it.

@BrotherBelial.3094 said:

@"Deihnyx.6318" said:I'm glad these people never attempted to get legendary armors. That's some real timegate for you.This... is nothing. I'm sorry.

Not everything has to be readily available.

You are comparing apples and oranges there. One is end game best in slot stuff, the other is a mount that was the "selling point" of the patch. One is supposed to be worked for over weeks/months/years, the other should take a few hours. The only reason the time gate has been added to keep the people who play the story, then stop playing till the next one comes out, playing the game.

Personally I like to play games at my pace, not one artificially set to keep me playing longer than I want to or expected to.

I answered that earlier. You're supposed to get the best end game content by demonstrating your skills. That's the only difference.To make the comparison more straightforward. If this mount was first described as "legendary", would it have changed -anything- about the complains here? Cause if you think it would have, we definitely have quite a different experience with these forums.

Back to the current content, it's not content we pay for, it's content that is given to us. We had no idea when we bought PoF that we would ever see additional mounts. This was not a selling point (unlike raids and legendary armors for HoT). What I fail to understand is where was it ever said that this content should be readily available, that it "should only take a few hours". Why?

Now as I said before again timegate is just one of the ways, and one I don't like either, but there -has- to be some sort of "effort" associated to it. The beetle was forgotten pretty quickly specifically because it was easy and quick to get. Gold sink brings negativity from a lot of people as well (and can become a pay2win situation), and let's not even talk about challenging content that is just no longer allowed in story mode.

I'm genuinely asking, what is the correct way of rewarding content?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Gop.8713" said:It's like they want us to play the game or something . . .

well theyre gonna get a lot less gameplay by forcing people to wait for something. some people are like "im just gonna do the daily for this then go play something else" when they COULD just have the skyscale already and start working on gaining its masteries and learning how to use it. there are already so many daily things in game. dont make major new content time gated on top of the new content already having time gated events

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Blocki.4931" said:It's either this or paying a ton of money for it. This sort of "journey" works well for guild wars in general and to be fair we have to remember that a large majority of people isn't going to get it all done day by day regardless.

I'd just assume have the option to pay, rather than be frustrated....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Deihnyx.6318" said:

The beetle was forgotten pretty quickly specifically because it was easy and quick to get.

I'm genuinely asking, what is the correct way of rewarding content?

The beetle was forgotten because after people got it, they discovered that they really had no use for it, unless you liked it aesthetically. "It's an option, I guess.."

The correct way of creating "rewarding content"? I'm not going to list anything off, but in no way should it be a 5-day time-gate. Time-gates are the opposite of rewarding, they can do almost anything else as long as it isn't locked behind a fabricated decision to force people to wait to play instead of playing when they are able to play.

There are some things that are okay to time-gate, such as Raids, etc. This is a normal practice in all games to keep player interest in addition to avoiding economic overturn due to flooding of whatever... however, the Skyscale isn't to be compared with any of the current time-gated content as it has no precedence.

That's about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...