[Spoilers] About Primordus...

[Quench.7091]

Primordus was just chilling underground getting feed that same magic crazy living and undead that tormented Kralkatorrik at the time. Then Balthazar came in, took a portion of his magic, and then made abominations by putting the souls of humans into metal constructs with some kind of living fire. Kralkatorrik mentioned that the magic within him was causing him torment, which was driving him insane. Could Balthazar have alleviated some of the torment that Primordus would have otherwise had to deal with? I remember reading somewhere about how Balthazar seemed different from the Balthazar within his scripture. Perhaps he ended up placing that burden upon his own shoulders?

Edit: I forgot to mention another point. We still need the magic of Primordus to take out Jormag, if Taimi was correct back in HoT. How we would accomplish this hasn't been addressed yet.

[derd.6413]

no, that'd be dumb

[Tails.9372]

He's probably just another tormented soul.

[Quench.7091]

@derd.6413 said:no, that'd be dumb

That whole Kralkatorrik being a good guy thing would be equal to this, though. Not saying that it is genius story telling. I'm trying to match up to the plot points they've been feeding us.

[Randulf.7614]

Kralkatorrik was evil in the time his rising and before in the last cycle as well. The extra magic just fuelled and maddened him further. We know this because of glint and because snaff has seen into his mind and only seen the rage and the evil.

Whatever this bizarre plot point is, it happened likely during his early elder dragon days. So removing other magic from primordus wouldn’t have made him good no

[Quench.7091]

@Randulf.7614 said:Kralkatorrik was evil in the time his rising and before in the last cycle as well. The extra magic just fuelled and maddened him further. We know this because of glint and because snaff has seen into his mind and only seen the rage and the evil.

Whatever this bizarre plot point is, it happened likely during his early elder dragon days. So removing other magic from primordus wouldn’t have made him good no

This is true.

We lack information on how the dragons got so terrible to begin with. All that I could find was that the dragons were consuming all kinds of magic. It is questionable if consuming random sources of magic is what caused Kralkatorrik to go mad to begin with. Another thing I need to keep in mind is just because he kind of had some good in him during this story doesn't mean that Primordus will be the same.

[derd.6413]

@Quench.7091 said:

@derd.6413 said:no, that'd be dumb

That whole Kralkatorrik being a good guy thing would be equal to this, though. Not saying that it is genius story telling. I'm trying to match up to the plot points they've been feeding us.

you do know you can a sympathetic character without being a good guy.

[Quench.7091]

@derd.6413 said:

@Quench.7091 said:

@derd.6413 said:no, that'd be dumb

That whole Kralkatorrik being a good guy thing would be equal to this, though. Not saying that it is genius story telling. I'm trying to match up to the plot points they've been feeding us.

you do know you can a sympathetic character without being a good guy.

My perspective was he had either a literal inner demon or a split personality, which would basically be two characters in one body. They even had two different names inside of the chat box. That kind of complicates things for me in terms of sympathy. They could've also have gone with the single consciousness arguing with itself approach, but how everything was structured was kind of odd. The good Kralkatorrik wasn't labeled as good, but the torment wasn't even called Kralkatorrik. It was more like Torment of Kralkatorrik if I remember correctly. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[derd.6413]

@Quench.7091 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Quench.7091 said:

@derd.6413 said:no, that'd be dumb

That whole Kralkatorrik being a good guy thing would be equal to this, though. Not saying that it is genius story telling. I'm trying to match up to the plot points they've been feeding us.

you do know you can a sympathetic character without being a good guy.

My perspective was he had either a literal inner demon or a split personality, which would basically be two characters in one body. They even had two different names inside of the chat box. That kind of complicates things for me in terms of sympathy. They could've also have gone with the single consciousness arguing with itself approach, but how everything was structured was kind of odd. The good Kralkatorrik wasn't labeled as good, but the torment wasn't even called Kralkatorrik. It was more like Torment of Kralkatorrik if I remember correctly. Correct me if I'm wrong.

yes, but that doesn't make kralk a "good guy" just a sympathetic character

[Ashantara.8731]

Primordus was still asleep, so we don't know what was going on in his mind.

Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic should be neutralized now, after Aurene absorbed everything (?).

[Randulf.7614]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

1. Primordus was still asleep, so we don't know what was going on in his mind.
2. Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic should be neutralized now, after Aurene absorbed everything (?).

Mordremoths explosion of magic also went South (it went off in multiple diff directions in the cinematic). We don't know what absorbed that. If it went to the Ocean and the dsd absorbed it, then it is still in the equation. We also don't know if Zhaitans magic went further afield. All we know is that Mord and Tequatl took a share

Also, Primordus wasn't asleep when Balth took much of his magic. He moved there from the North as per the current events of that time where we tracked him and then appeared in the volcano. After Balth finished absorbing as much magic as he could before the machine exploded, then he went back to sleep

[derd.6413]

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

1. Primordus was still asleep, so we don't know what was going on in his mind.
2. Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic should be neutralized now, after Aurene absorbed everything (?).

Mordremoths explosion of magic also went South (it went off in multiple diff directions in the cinematic). We don't know what absorbed that. If it went to the Ocean and the dsd absorbed it, then it is still in the equation. We also don't know if Zhaitans magic went further afield. All we know is that Mord and Tequatl took a share

given that we saw death and plant touched minions it's safeto say all EDs took a share of them

[Randulf.7614]

@derd.6413 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:

1. Primordus was still asleep, so we don't know what was going on in his mind.
2. Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic should be neutralized now, after Aurene absorbed everything (?).

Mordremoths explosion of magic also went South (it went off in multiple diff directions in the cinematic). We don't know what absorbed that. If it went to the Ocean and the dsd absorbed it, then it is still in the equation. We also don't know if Zhaitans magic went further afield. All we know is that Mord and Tequatl took a share

given that we saw death and plant touched minions it's safeto say all EDs took a share of them

Indeed, altho Jormag and Primordus I assume are drained of those magics/domains as they are at "pre awakened" state

[derd.6413]

@Randulf.7614 said:

@derd.6413 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:

1. Primordus was still asleep, so we don't know what was going on in his mind.
2. Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic should be neutralized now, after Aurene absorbed everything (?).

Mordremoths explosion of magic also went South (it went off in multiple diff directions in the cinematic). We don't know what absorbed that. If it went to the Ocean and the dsd absorbed it, then it is still in the equation. We also don't know if Zhaitans magic went further afield. All we know is that Mord and Tequatl took a share

given that we saw death and plant touched minions it's safeto say all EDs took a share of them

Indeed, altho Jormag and Primordus I assume are drained of those magics/domains as they are at "pre awakened" state

i don't se how that would have any effect besides "the machine did it" (which there's no indication of) but whatever

[Ashantara.8731]

@Randulf.7614 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:

1. Primordus was still asleep, so we don't know what was going on in his mind.
2. Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic should be neutralized now, after Aurene absorbed everything (?).

Mordremoths explosion of magic also went South (it went off in multiple diff directions in the cinematic). We don't know what absorbed that. If it went to the Ocean and the dsd absorbed it, then it is still in the equation.

You didn't pay attention. ;) Upon an Elder Dragon's death, their magic goes to all the other Elder Dragons, which throws the Eternal Alchemy out of balance and threatens the world, which is why Kralkatorrik was harboring the magic of Zhaitan and Mordremoth besides his own:

"Being so intrinsically tied to the world, the death of an Elder Dragon has major consequences to the natural order of the world. Like dormant dragons, dead dragons release the magical energy contained in their body back into the world via the ley lines criss-crossing the globe. In addition to this, their sphere of magic becomes divided among the other Elder Dragons, with the closest gaining more power from these fallen Elder Dragons. [...] With the deaths of both Zhaitan and Mordremoth, their magic spread across the ley lines. Primordus, Jormag, and Kralkatorrik all created minions exhibiting death, shadow, plant, and mind magic."(Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elder_Dragon)

We don't know the exact extent yet of Aurene's bringing balance back into the Eternal Alchemy, but it is possible that the remaining other three Elder Dragons still harbor Z+M's magic as well. I don't hope so, but it is a realistic possibility. Since two of them are fast asleep, though, it won't pose an issue for another thousand plus years. The only real remaining threat, IMO, is the sea dragon.

[Randulf.7614]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

1. Primordus was still asleep, so we don't know what was going on in his mind.
2. Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic should be neutralized now, after Aurene absorbed everything (?).

Mordremoths explosion of magic also went South (it went off in multiple diff directions in the cinematic). We don't know what absorbed that. If it went to the Ocean and the dsd absorbed it, then it is still in the equation.

You didn't pay attention. ;) Upon an Elder Dragon's death, their magic goes to all the other Elder Dragons, which throws the Eternal Alchemy out of balance and threatens the world, which is why Kralkatorrik was harboring the magic of Zhaitan and Mordremoth besides his own:

"

Being so intrinsically tied to the world, the death of an Elder Dragon has major consequences to the natural order of the world. Like dormant dragons, dead dragons release the magical energy contained in their body back into the world via the ley lines criss-crossing the globe. In addition to this, their sphere of magic becomes divided among the other Elder Dragons, with the closest gaining more power from these fallen Elder Dragons. [...] With the deaths of both Zhaitan and Mordremoth, their magic spread across the ley lines. Primordus, Jormag, and Kralkatorrik all created minions exhibiting death, shadow, plant, and mind magic.

"(Source:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elder_Dragon

)

We don't know the exact extent yet of Aurene's bringing balance back into the Eternal Alchemy, but it is possible that the remaining other three Elder Dragons still harbor Z+M's magic as well. I don't hope so, but it is a realistic possibility. Since two of them are fast asleep, though, it won't pose an issue for another thousand plus years. The only real remaining threat, IMO, is the sea dragon.

Right...so contrary to your previous post. You said it was neutralised fully by Aurene, I said it isn’t. Which of course your second post then backs up.

We also have no idea when jormag or primordus will wake up again or if they will receive an unexpected jolt or how far into pre awakened they were put. To not even have Jormag appear in the game seems rather ridiculous, although given where things have gone this season since ep3 nothing will surprise me anymore.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Randulf.7614 said:Right...so contrary to your previous post. You said it was neutralised fully by Aurene

I meant Kralkatorrik's portion of magic, his and what he absorbed from the other two, had been neutralized (in terms of no longer being a threat to the world). Should have phrased that differently, sorry. We do not know about the others.

We also have no idea when jormag or primordus will wake up again

Wasn't there a comment the Commander made earlier that they had been put to sleep for a very long time?

To not even have Jormag appear in the game seems rather ridiculous

Really? I think it would be great to not have to deal with any Elder Dragons in this game ever again, but who knows what will happen. ;)

[Randulf.7614]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Right...so contrary to your previous post. You said it was neutralised fully by Aurene

I meant Kralkatorrik's portion of magic, his and what he absorbed from the other two, had been neutralized. Should have phrased that differently, sorry,

We also have no idea when jormag or primordus will wake up again

Wasn't there a comment the Commander made earlier that they had been put to sleep for a very long time?

To not even have Jormag appear in the game seems rather ridiculous

Really? I think it would be great to not have to deal with

any

Elder Dragons in this game ever again, but who knows what will happen. ;)

I’d tend to agree given the utterly disastrous handling of them. However the game, the logo, the branding revolves around them. The devs recently said after the whole lay offs that they had plenty more stories of the dragons to tell.

We will be dealing with them again

[Ashantara.8731]

@Randulf.7614 said:We will be dealing with them again

Probably, but it won't be in such a lame way like we did with Z and M, and even K for a long time (I liked the ending of the latter, though!). I have a feeling they are on a better path now and we will get different facettes of dragon storylines (if we get any) with better story missions and better dragon models and mechanics. :)