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[merged] About the Skyscale Timegate...


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@mortrialus.3062 said:It's fine. People complain too much when things aren't about Instant Gratification. And going forward the process for getting the Skyscale and how good it feels to finally get it will leave you feeling happier and more attached to your mount.

I would tweak the process a bit and allow you to start gathering whatever once you reach the part in the story where you can borrow skyscales. The last two major parts (going up unreasonably high to get the blood, vertigo, and the instance height, flashing) are major triggers for people with epilepsy. Sure I would love to finish the story but for now have to settle for watching youtube vids and will eventually get a party for those two things. To me those are the real gate, even if most people got them done the first day.

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@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:-Trying to justify a terrible design via "context"I didn't justify it. The context is as stated. Do you suppose the collection eludes to something else? Are they not trying to make the player feel invested per the collection? You can argue whether it was a good idea or not with someone else.

But you just did. Stating that it's time gated because "we're raising a baby dragon" is literally an example of explaining the context of a design.

I'm not justifying the sky when I point out that it's blue.

That's stating a fact. "It's time gated cuz game is making us want to believe we're raising a dragon" is justifying a design via context.

At least learn the difference.

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By thinking at the time gates of the TimeWaste collection my opinion shifted slowly. I'm inclined now to think that not keeping the players on the map was the reason. I don't know the real reason, but if you want the map filled with players for a long time, you should mandatory make the TimeWaste mount soulbound. If you want it on another character, then start again - from the very beginning. In this way you make sure all the other characters of a player will complete (or at least will start) every LS episode. To not expose the players to exhaustion, you should make the collection completable only one at one time.

So, if the reason of this move was to keep the players playing the map, ANet lost a golden opportunity :#

OOOOOOH !! Nobody completed the collections yet! We don't know if the oportunity is lost or the real true will take us by surprise :# Anyhow, for the first players achieving the TimeWaste - please keep us informed.

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@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:-Trying to justify a terrible design via "context"I didn't justify it. The context is as stated. Do you suppose the collection eludes to something else? Are they not trying to make the player feel invested per the collection? You can argue whether it was a good idea or not with someone else.

But you just did. Stating that it's time gated because "we're raising a baby dragon" is literally an example of explaining the context of a design.

I'm not justifying the sky when I point out that it's blue.

That's stating a fact. "It's time gated cuz game is making us want to believe we're raising a dragon" is justifying a design via context.

At least learn the difference.

And my friend, that is a fact. That is what is going on. Unless you would argue that is not what Anet is going for there. I'd be curious about your theory.

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@Rukario.1695 said:I don't understand why the mount has to be time-gated. What about the people who can only play for 30 minutes or so on most days but have their day off today to do what they want? Restricting it just forces them to have to wait even longer. This compounds it even harder for those who are losing out on their experience as the OP stated.

Worse yet, what about players who decide they don't want to slog through the collection of getting the skyscale? Does that mean forever after they will not be able to earn XP in PoF maps, a section of the game where players already tend to avoid because of various reasons?

Expect this to be hotfixed very soon, because if a player decided not to get either the Gryphon or the Beetle, it didn't screw them over on what they did throughout the REST of PoF maps.

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@LucianDK.8615 said:hundreds of gold? Not really. Luckilly I sat on 30 charged quartz I had made a while ago. But Ive heard you also need a grow lamp which is 24g on tp if you arent able to or willing to make it yourself.

It's for me 80g now and price is skyrocketing. Another thing because of the timegating., If you didn't rush it at day 1, you are now paying 10 times more already

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No one can claim now that this was gated to keep people in the new map. The collection yesterday took me to dragonfall for about 2 minutes after which i spent the rest of the 4 hours in various other parts of the game exclusively not dragonfall to complete the collection.

With as big as this collection is i still dont see the purpose for time gate I play rather aggressively when i want something and even I would not finish this collection in 2-3 days at minimum.

Whats this im hearing about the feeding skyscale collection taking 2 days to complete too. Some one said you can only feed it 3 times per day or something but the collection is a 6/6 Is this true or not?

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@Absconditus.6804 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:The only really compelling argument I've seen against the time gate so far is that it is a lazy way to prolong the content and keep players invested in the map over a period of time, and I think that is a fair complaint. BUT, I haven't seen anyone present any reasonable alternative that accomplishes those goals nor have I seen anyone demonstrate that the time gate is causing any actual harm . . .

The harm it causes is burning players out within just a few days. I am in this boat. Due to the nature of the timegating being tied to needing to complete the previous stage before a daily reset, I feel compelled to push myself through collecting all the collectibles within just a single sitting, whereas otherwise I may have naturally spread it out over a few days as I did other content. That tires me and I barely feel like playing at the moment. I am just logging in and doing it to do it. Getting it to get it. There's no drive to do that other content anymore because I am spending so much time collecting the collectibles. Afterwards I just want to log out the moment that stupid timegate wall hits me. I've done my
job
for the day, time to clock out and go home to relax.

The toxicity brewing in map chats all over the zones related to the collections aren't exactly good either. I haven't seen this high levels of nasty comments fired around.. I think ever. This clearly is upsetting people and then there's those it doesn't upset that are nasty in return to those who are upset, with no good reason either. There's no reason to defend the timegating as far as I can see. The timegating has nothing to do with instant gratification or effort put towards getting the mount. It is just a wall, preventing you from putting in effort where you want to have fun and focus your playtime, when you want to focus on it, not when the game psychologically pushes you towards doing it.

I'd say that any prolonged investment in the map isn't there because of the timegating either. You only need to do 10 events in each "lane" to unlock the vendors, but otherwise you don't need to partake in the map events or meta. "Day 2" sends you around to various other maps as well, so there's no investment in the new map there, other than speaking with a couple NPCs. I am actually kinda sick of the new map. I loved it as I went through the story, I loved it as I did my initial events clears and exploration. Now I hate it. Well, hate is a strong word, but I am unlikely to return to it unless its needed. I somewhat feel bad for the talented map designers. I associate it with a frustrating grind that sent me to the same freaking locations three bloody times to collect scales, feed medicine to sick Skyscales and then pick up eggs, all in one sitting. It was largely the same exact locations! That was such a
boring
and frankly terribly done collection that was simply frustrating after the second roundabout. At the very least it could have put the collectibles in more varied locations. "Day 2", far better, but I still feel like I am under a time constraint where I have to complete it all, and there is a lot to do, within the time I have to spend on the game, before the daily reset. I know there's no gun to my head, but psychologically this timegating with the daily reset mechanic has that effect on me, and I'm sure plenty other players too. It's just frustrating.

I do think it's causing harm. I think it's creating negativity in what has been one of the most open and welcoming game communities out there. Sure, we're largely still friendly, but a new player being greeted with a bunch of complaints in the map chat about the timegating and seeing a bunch of nasty comments from those who don't mind it, flung in the direction of those who do mind it, isn't going to be a good first impression. I think it's burning out players. I think it's an element of frustration when you don't got enough time to finish a collection stage in a single day and are as such forced to wait yet another day when you do get it done. I am not in that boat, but I can only imagine how demotivating that must be.

I do not see anything positive about the timegating, and I can't fathom why people are defending it.

I just want to point out that if anyone is being intentionally disrespectful out of anger over this, that is 100% on them and does not in any way sway this timegating issue towards removing it or keeping it. That goes for both sides.

I've seen some frankly appalling messages in this thread. People are angry, but for the love of Dwayna, this is just a video game. It isn't worth lowering yourself to shameful levels.

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@Rain.7543 said:

@"Loosmaster.8263" said:At least I got to get a taste of if from the loaner version. Not at all impressed enough to even go after it. Oh, FYI, don't gather while on the loaner, you loose it on dismount and have to go back an get another. Game over, man...

You do realise that the loan version of the mount is without any of the masteries, right? So look at it, as a very limited version of the mount.

As for the rest I dont personally mind time gated achievements and collections. If those collections werent time gated people would already have the mount and begin posting topics, about how they have run out of things to do. Anet cant please everyone either way. If you don't like the way it is done, then don't do it. You are free to not like how it was implemented, but for god sake, dont post topics to complain, about something you get completely free. Its redicilous.

Oh cool.

I have a guildie who loves mounts in MMOs but doesnt have the money to buy the expansions right now. I will let him know that he can get this mount without spending money.

I have another guildie who doesnt have much time to play, I will let him know that this mount doesn't require any of that currency either.

Thanks for the heads up.

PS: there is no "e" in ridiculous.

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Yesterday I was in the "I'm OK with the timegate" camp. Today I read there are timegates within timegates and my opinion is shifting, because now I wonder how far away the Skyscale acquisition really is. Even more timegates? Is it going to cost a lot of gold too? Discouraged, but will soldier on (note that this is probably not a good reaction to playing a game that's supposed to be fun).

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@Absconditus.6804 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:The only really compelling argument I've seen against the time gate so far is that it is a lazy way to prolong the content and keep players invested in the map over a period of time, and I think that is a fair complaint. BUT, I haven't seen anyone present any reasonable alternative that accomplishes those goals nor have I seen anyone demonstrate that the time gate is causing any actual harm . . .

The harm it causes is burning players out within just a few days. I am in this boat. Due to the nature of the timegating being tied to needing to complete the previous stage before a daily reset, I feel compelled to push myself through collecting all the collectibles within just a single sitting, whereas otherwise I may have naturally spread it out over a few days as I did other content. That tires me and I barely feel like playing at the moment. I am just logging in and doing it to do it. Getting it to get it. There's no drive to do that other content anymore because I am spending so much time collecting the collectibles. Afterwards I just want to log out the moment that stupid timegate wall hits me. I've done my
job
for the day, time to clock out and go home to relax.

The toxicity brewing in map chats all over the zones related to the collections aren't exactly good either. I haven't seen this high levels of nasty comments fired around.. I think ever. This clearly is upsetting people and then there's those it doesn't upset that are nasty in return to those who are upset, with no good reason either. There's no reason to defend the timegating as far as I can see. The timegating has nothing to do with instant gratification or effort put towards getting the mount. It is just a wall, preventing you from putting in effort where you want to have fun and focus your playtime, when you want to focus on it, not when the game psychologically pushes you towards doing it.

I'd say that any prolonged investment in the map isn't there because of the timegating either. You only need to do 10 events in each "lane" to unlock the vendors, but otherwise you don't need to partake in the map events or meta. "Day 2" sends you around to various other maps as well, so there's no investment in the new map there, other than speaking with a couple NPCs. I am actually kinda sick of the new map. I loved it as I went through the story, I loved it as I did my initial events clears and exploration. Now I hate it. Well, hate is a strong word, but I am unlikely to return to it unless its needed. I somewhat feel bad for the talented map designers. I associate it with a frustrating grind that sent me to the same freaking locations three bloody times to collect scales, feed medicine to sick Skyscales and then pick up eggs, all in one sitting. It was largely the same exact locations! That was such a
boring
and frankly terribly done collection that was simply frustrating after the second roundabout. At the very least it could have put the collectibles in more varied locations. "Day 2", far better, but I still feel like I am under a time constraint where I have to complete it all, and there is a lot to do, within the time I have to spend on the game, before the daily reset. I know there's no gun to my head, but psychologically this timegating with the daily reset mechanic has that effect on me, and I'm sure plenty other players too. It's just frustrating.

I do think it's causing harm. I think it's creating negativity in what has been one of the most open and welcoming game communities out there. Sure, we're largely still friendly, but a new player being greeted with a bunch of complaints in the map chat about the timegating and seeing a bunch of nasty comments from those who don't mind it, flung in the direction of those who do mind it, isn't going to be a good first impression. I think it's burning out players. I think it's an element of frustration when you don't got enough time to finish a collection stage in a single day and are as such forced to wait yet another day when you do get it done. I am not in that boat, but I can only imagine how demotivating that must be.

I do not see anything positive about the timegating, and I can't fathom why people are defending it.

I agree with you but it’s because that guy is defending just for the sake of defending in fact there have already been more alternatives that make [sense], the issue is [pretending] that there is nothing better than timegating when everybody [knows] there are better alternatives.

Timegating adds nothing I don’t know why it has to keep being said but apparently it does, you could tie it to the meta event in dragon fall you can time gate something for a few hrs and have certain objectives be tied into decreasing the time of the wait in the game. That’s a few that make more [sense] than to just stop you for [no reason]. If it’s tied to exploration and actually playing the game, Someone already said that if it just started when you start the achievement that’s already a better alternative that what it [currently] is.

But again as I’ve told that person, I’m wrong and they are right. Timegates are the best thing and they make sense and they don’t dictate how people play the game. So don’t remove them, they improve the game 10 fold...smh

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i for one would love to be able to just walk away from this game and the way it treats its players.but that is not easy.i played since launch and have spent way more than is sensible on it .time and money i find hard to let go of. 7k+hours and 4k+ uk pounds. and it makes me feel sick.

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@Gambino.2109 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I think it's funny someone complains about the time gate ... I guess spending 250G is more to your liking?

Do we have any reason to think it WON'T cost 250g? The Griffon had collections, too...

Yes, that would be an added insult. Actually, I'm OK with the time gate for the Skyscale although not crazy about it. BUT, if at the end of however many days it takes, we're hit with a requirement that costs 100s of gold, I will be miffed. To put it mildly.

I heard we're not out of the woods yet.. and there is gonna be a feeding part that some one said will require grow lamps or something that's time gated.

I can't wait to find out what it is..

Yes, I was OK with the first few collections/scavenger hunts, now I read there are timegates within timegates and I'm not happy.

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I hate this. I never complained about anything but I hate this.

This is exactly why I don't play a lot of other MMOs. Timegates.

We are not talking about 4 days timegate (it is a lot more it seems if you don't have the charged quartz).

I would rather prefer the collection to be longer, harder or whatever than timegated. I can't play everyday. And when I play, I don't always play 4 hours non stop. So the timegate doesn't allow me to do a bit every day or it will take even more time and it also doesn't allow me to play the "content" for longer even when I have the time because it's timegated.

It will probably take me 2 months to do this if ever. GW2 was always abouy being able to hop in and out of the game. Now it's becoming more like a fulltime job.

So many bad decisions lately that make me fear for the future of my favorite game...

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I got sick with timescale skygating mount, so if i want griffon do i need to do all mount masteries cause i have only raptor and wvw mount, do i need to do stories or i can abuse rented scyscale to complete achievements for griffon (cause you will need bunny for most of them i think)?

dont care about gold I already bought Bolt for 150€ converting gems to gold. so this 250 gold for griffon is nothing to me. I hate timegating.

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It is a collection/scavenger hunt Heck I still have legendary weapon collection's open and yes they are time gated some crafting mats are time gated and some story content also from day one was time gated, Time gating has been part of GW and other MMO's for a long time, it is just people want their shiny as soon as they log on

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@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:-Trying to justify a terrible design via "context"I didn't justify it. The context is as stated. Do you suppose the collection eludes to something else? Are they not trying to make the player feel invested per the collection? You can argue whether it was a good idea or not with someone else.

But you just did. Stating that it's time gated because "we're raising a baby dragon" is literally an example of explaining the context of a design.

I'm not justifying the sky when I point out that it's blue.

That's stating a fact. "It's time gated cuz game is making us want to believe we're raising a dragon" is justifying a design via context.

At least learn the difference.

And my friend, that is a fact. That is what is going on. Unless you would argue that is not what Anet is going for there. I'd be curious about your theory.

It's not though. What's fact is that it's time gated. The context to justify the time gating fact is that we're "raising a dragon".

Whether ANet indeed intended to try replicate reality into a fantasy, I don't know. The only current theory plausible is that they don't want it to be gained too quick that people get bored. At the same time though, they caused that exact problem, people are bored now cuz of waiting.

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@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Loosmaster.8263" said:At least I got to get a taste of if from the loaner version. Not at all impressed enough to even go after it. Oh, FYI, don't gather while on the loaner, you loose it on dismount and have to go back an get another. Game over, man...

You do realise that the loan version of the mount is without any of the masteries, right? So look at it, as a very limited version of the mount.

As for the rest I dont personally mind time gated achievements and collections. If those collections werent time gated people would already have the mount and begin posting topics, about how they have run out of things to do. Anet cant please everyone either way. If you don't like the way it is done, then don't do it. You are free to not like how it was implemented, but for god sake, dont post topics to complain, about something you get completely free. Its redicilous.

Oh cool.

I have a guildie who loves mounts in MMOs but doesnt have the money to buy the expansions right now. I will let him know that he can get this mount without spending money.

I have another guildie who doesnt have much time to play, I will let him know that this mount doesn't require any of that currency either.

Thanks for the heads up.

PS: there is no "e" in ridiculous.

They have to own PoF to access this area and have access to mounts, so yes they will have to spend money.

Edit: The "completely free" thing Rain was talking about was it's part of the LW content update and no out of pocket expense other than logging in while it's active.

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@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:At least I got to get a taste of if from the loaner version. Not at all impressed enough to even go after it. Oh, FYI, don't gather while on the loaner, you loose it on dismount and have to go back an get another. Game over, man...

You do realise that the loan version of the mount is without any of the masteries, right? So look at it, as a very limited version of the mount.

As for the rest I dont personally mind time gated achievements and collections. If those collections werent time gated people would already have the mount and begin posting topics, about how they have run out of things to do. Anet cant please everyone either way. If you don't like the way it is done, then don't do it. You are free to not like how it was implemented, but for god sake, dont post topics to complain, about something you get completely free. Its redicilous.

Oh cool.

I have a guildie who loves mounts in MMOs but doesnt have the money to buy the expansions right now. I will let him know that he can get this mount without spending money.

I have another guildie who doesnt have much time to play, I will let him know that this mount doesn't require any of that currency either.

Thanks for the heads up.

PS: there is no "e" in ridiculous.

They have to own PoF to access this area and have access to mounts, so yes they will have to spend money.

Spending money doesn't seem, "completely free," to me.

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@Ashen.2907 said:

@"Deihnyx.6318" said:Another thread is now complaining about the collections itself.

See why some people are only seeing the need for instant gratification in all these complains? This mentality completely ruined so many games, and it's never enough.I miss GW1.

I dislike collections. Not because I feel that getting rewards should require no effort, but because arbitrary chores are not why I play action/adventure or roleplaying games such as GW2. An adventure or challenge that must be overcome is one thing, press F under the following inane circumstances, x number of times, but only at a certain cadence, is something else IMO.

We're then coming back to an impossible problem to fix: people like different things.I agree with you, too many collections is boring. However whenever Anet ever tried to bring any sort of challenge in story mode or for non "elite" stuff it was always faced by a backslash from other people who want it easy and quick.No matter what, Anet can never win. I stand with what I said though, in the GW1 era we didn't have this problem. Players were playing the content for the game, they understood a game was to be beaten and the gratification was coming from that. This concept disappears more and more in modern games. Look at that, you even got people complaining that they need to finish all story LS4 for the final reward!

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@"Biermeister.4678" said:It is a collection/scavenger hunt Heck I still have legendary weapon collection's open and yes they are time gated some crafting mats are time gated and some story content also from day one was time gated, Time gating has been part of GW and other MMO's for a long time, it is just people want their shiny as soon as they log on

A Legendary weapon not crafted yet is understandable. Also understandable is the fact that some of the materials in the collections are timegated. But you can buy them and you can have your Legendary in one day if you have the Gifts (Battle and Exploration). This is for an item considered by the most as a "cosmetic" / "luxury" item.

The things are different when we talk about mounts. The mounts were the central selling point for PoF. We had no new legendary in PoF. We had no other dragon kill in PoF. ANet replaced all of this with the mounts. Taking into account that you cannot even complete some of the PoF maps without mounts, you should realize that the mount was the minimal requirement / something every owner of PoF should have. Something every owner of PoF considers normal to have as soon as they log on.

This was until now. And now we have the mount, the main feature of PoF, the normal thing to have, gated. Is this a statement that ANet puts an equal sign between Legendary Weapons and Mounts?

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