[merged] About the Skyscale Timegate...

[Locce.8405]

"Waiting" is not a good game concept.Some of these collections take quite a bit of time per se, so it is not like rushing through them as fast as possible would come without its price.What these timegates do is create artificial and arbitrary waiting periods. It does not matter if you were almost done with one step at daily reset. You are either done at that specific point of time or you basically lose a day, which is doubly frustrating when it happens because you were busy one day and you end up barely able to contribute anything towards completion the next day when you might have a lot more free time on your hands.Many of us are adults who know pretty well how to manage our time. Last thing we need is the game telling us when to do what we want to do when the result of our decision has no bearing on the enjoyment of the game for others.

[Annaveil.5201]

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

@CETheLucid.3964 said:

@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:-Trying to justify a terrible design via "context"I didn't justify it. The context is as stated. Do you suppose the collection eludes to something else? Are they not trying to make the player feel invested per the collection? You can argue whether it was a good idea or not with someone else.

But you just did. Stating that it's time gated because "we're raising a baby dragon" is literally an example of explaining the context of a design.

I'm not justifying the sky when I point out that it's blue.

That's stating a fact. "It's time gated cuz game is making us want to believe we're raising a dragon" is justifying a design via context.

At least learn the difference.

And my friend, that is a fact. That is what is going on. Unless you would argue that is not what Anet is going for there. I'd be curious about your theory.

It's not though. What's fact is that it's time gated. The context to justify the time gating fact is that we're "raising a dragon".

Whether ANet indeed intended to try replicate reality into a fantasy, I don't know. The only current theory plausible is that they don't want it to be gained too quick that people get bored. At the same time though, they caused that exact problem, people are bored now cuz of waiting.

Not that I'm trying to be rude, but I don't follow. I think you're saying we don't know what came first, the chicken (the story of raising a baby dragon) or the egg (the timegate), but ultimately that doesn't diminish the fact that we are raising a baby dragon. It's probably a combination of both.

"Quest" collections aren't new, we've had them before, but they also clearly want the Skyscale to be something that you earn through dedication. I imagine the leap from "raise your own dragon" to "a reason for people to slow down" was an easy lightbulb.

[Ashen.2907]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:Another thread is now complaining about the collections itself.

See why some people are only seeing the need for instant gratification in all these complains? This mentality completely ruined so many games, and it's never enough.I miss GW1.

I dislike collections. Not because I feel that getting rewards should require no effort, but because arbitrary chores are not why I play action/adventure or roleplaying games such as GW2. An adventure or challenge that must be overcome is one thing, press F under the following inane circumstances, x number of times, but only at a certain cadence, is something else IMO.

We're then coming back to an impossible problem to fix: people like different things.I agree with you, too many collections is boring. However whenever Anet ever tried to bring any sort of challenge in story mode or for non "elite" stuff it was always faced by a backslash from other people who want it easy and quick.No matter what, Anet can never win. I stand with what I said though, in the GW1 era we didn't have this problem. Players were playing the content for the game, they understood a game was to be beaten and the gratification was coming from that. This concept disappears more and more in modern games. Look at that, you even got people complaining got they need to finish all story LS4 for the final reward!

Its not an impossible problem though.

If people like different approaches to acquiring a reward....create different approaches to acquiring the reward.

Have the new mount be:craftableearned via pvp reward trackattained via collectionacquired by completing t4 fractalsetc.

[Fengzhou.9853]

@Biermeister.4678 said:It is a collection/scavenger hunt Heck I still have legendary weapon collection's open and yes they are time gated some crafting mats are time gated and some story content also from day one was time gated, Time gating has been part of GW and other MMO's for a long time, it is just people want their shiny as soon as they log on

Saying this has only proved you skipped the entire thread of discussion and had to drop in your 2 cents that has been already debunked/discarded numerous times. You're acting rather ignorant to the issue at hand.

[Deihnyx.6318]

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:Another thread is now complaining about the collections itself.

See why some people are only seeing the need for instant gratification in all these complains? This mentality completely ruined so many games, and it's never enough.I miss GW1.

I dislike collections. Not because I feel that getting rewards should require no effort, but because arbitrary chores are not why I play action/adventure or roleplaying games such as GW2. An adventure or challenge that must be overcome is one thing, press F under the following inane circumstances, x number of times, but only at a certain cadence, is something else IMO.

We're then coming back to an impossible problem to fix: people like different things.I agree with you, too many collections is boring. However whenever Anet ever tried to bring any sort of challenge in story mode or for non "elite" stuff it was always faced by a backslash from other people who want it easy and quick.No matter what, Anet can never win. I stand with what I said though, in the GW1 era we didn't have this problem. Players were playing the content for the game, they understood a game was to be beaten and the gratification was coming from that. This concept disappears more and more in modern games. Look at that, you even got people complaining got they need to finish all story LS4 for the final reward!

Its not an impossible problem though.

If people like different approaches to acquiring a reward....create different approaches to acquiring the reward.

Have the new mount be:craftableearned via pvp reward trackattained via collectionacquired by completing t4 fractalsetc.

They already do a lot of that though. You can earn complete sets via reward tracks.The mount though is supposed to be the "final" reward of LS4, pretty much like Aurora was. It has to be somehow related to that content, which reward tracks and fractals aren't.Finishing the last instance in hard mode would have been a good alternative, imho.

[Ashen.2907]

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Rain.7543 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:At least I got to get a taste of if from the loaner version. Not at all impressed enough to even go after it. Oh, FYI, don't gather while on the loaner, you loose it on dismount and have to go back an get another. Game over, man...

You do realise that the loan version of the mount is without any of the masteries, right? So look at it, as a very limited version of the mount.

As for the rest I dont personally mind time gated achievements and collections. If those collections werent time gated people would already have the mount and begin posting topics, about how they have run out of things to do. Anet cant please everyone either way. If you don't like the way it is done, then don't do it. You are free to not like how it was implemented, but for god sake, dont post topics to complain, about something you get completely free. Its redicilous.

Oh cool.

I have a guildie who loves mounts in MMOs but doesnt have the money to buy the expansions right now. I will let him know that he can get this mount without spending money.

I have another guildie who doesnt have much time to play, I will let him know that this mount doesn't require any of that currency either.

Thanks for the heads up.

PS: there is no "e" in ridiculous.

They have to own PoF to access this area and have access to mounts, so yes they will have to spend money.

Spending money doesn't seem, "completely free," to me.

I edited my response to address what Rain said.

I disagree with the edit because the cost of the expansion IS out of pocket.

The, "free," LS chapters between expansions is part of how the expansions were sold to some of us. I personally dont mind spending money on a game I am playing. Ive spent thousands of dollars on gw2. I dont appreciate my money and time spent being dismissed however.

[RizelStar.3724]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:Another thread is now complaining about the collections itself.

See why some people are only seeing the need for instant gratification in all these complains? This mentality completely ruined so many games, and it's never enough.I miss GW1.

I dislike collections. Not because I feel that getting rewards should require no effort, but because arbitrary chores are not why I play action/adventure or roleplaying games such as GW2. An adventure or challenge that must be overcome is one thing, press F under the following inane circumstances, x number of times, but only at a certain cadence, is something else IMO.

We're then coming back to an impossible problem to fix: people like different things.I agree with you, too many collections is boring. However whenever Anet ever tried to bring any sort of challenge in story mode or for non "elite" stuff it was always faced by a backslash from other people who want it easy and quick.No matter what, Anet can never win. I stand with what I said though, in the GW1 era we didn't have this problem. Players were playing the content for the game, they understood a game was to be beaten and the gratification was coming from that. This concept disappears more and more in modern games. Look at that, you even got people complaining that they need to finish all story LS4 for the final reward!

It’s interesting though has timegating ever been a required feature to enjoy a game or only tolerated at best? I’ve never seen timegating as a way to really promote things, which again kind of adds to the frustration to this. Cause it is impossible to fix that. Like I can tolerate a Timegate for legendaries because it’s a legendary and has been advertised as such.

Personally the collections aren’t the overall problem that’s when I’d ask people to be reasonable because the collection itself is a good enough reason IMO. I will say timegating can effect people who already don’t like collections into then complaining about collections and like you said LS content. Cause no matter what you do you then got to wait to do something you don’t like already. Also not saying you’re wrong or anything(just to be clear) but what you said made me curious.

[Ashen.2907]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:Another thread is now complaining about the collections itself.

See why some people are only seeing the need for instant gratification in all these complains? This mentality completely ruined so many games, and it's never enough.I miss GW1.

I dislike collections. Not because I feel that getting rewards should require no effort, but because arbitrary chores are not why I play action/adventure or roleplaying games such as GW2. An adventure or challenge that must be overcome is one thing, press F under the following inane circumstances, x number of times, but only at a certain cadence, is something else IMO.

We're then coming back to an impossible problem to fix: people like different things.I agree with you, too many collections is boring. However whenever Anet ever tried to bring any sort of challenge in story mode or for non "elite" stuff it was always faced by a backslash from other people who want it easy and quick.No matter what, Anet can never win. I stand with what I said though, in the GW1 era we didn't have this problem. Players were playing the content for the game, they understood a game was to be beaten and the gratification was coming from that. This concept disappears more and more in modern games. Look at that, you even got people complaining got they need to finish all story LS4 for the final reward!

Its not an impossible problem though.

If people like different approaches to acquiring a reward....create different approaches to acquiring the reward.

Have the new mount be:craftableearned via pvp reward trackattained via collectionacquired by completing t4 fractalsetc.

They already do a lot of that though. You can earn complete sets via reward tracks.The mount though is supposed to be the "final" reward of LS4, pretty much like Aurora was. It has to be somehow related to that content, which reward tracks and fractals aren't.Finishing the last instance in hard mode would have been a good alternative, imho.

So it is not impossible if they are already doing it a lot. Not a problem needing to be solved then, they just choose to not use a known, tested, and proven solution.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

@Ashantara.8731 said:By the time this gets decided, we will already have our mount. ;)

but not the next or the one after that.

[Tiviana.2650]

@RizelStar.3724 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:Another thread is now complaining about the collections itself.

See why some people are only seeing the need for instant gratification in all these complains? This mentality completely ruined so many games, and it's never enough.I miss GW1.

I dislike collections. Not because I feel that getting rewards should require no effort, but because arbitrary chores are not why I play action/adventure or roleplaying games such as GW2. An adventure or challenge that must be overcome is one thing, press F under the following inane circumstances, x number of times, but only at a certain cadence, is something else IMO.

We're then coming back to an impossible problem to fix: people like different things.I agree with you, too many collections is boring. However whenever Anet ever tried to bring any sort of challenge in story mode or for non "elite" stuff it was always faced by a backslash from other people who want it easy and quick.No matter what, Anet can never win. I stand with what I said though, in the GW1 era we didn't have this problem. Players were playing the content for the game, they understood a game was to be beaten and the gratification was coming from that. This concept disappears more and more in modern games. Look at that, you even got people complaining that they need to finish all story LS4 for the final reward!

It’s interesting though has timegating ever been a required feature to enjoy a game or only tolerated at best? I’ve never seen timegating as a way to really promote things, which again kind of adds to the frustration to this. Cause it is impossible to fix that. Like I can tolerate a Timegate for legendaries because it’s a legendary and has been advertised as such.

Personally the collections aren’t the overall problem that’s when I’d ask people to be reasonable because the collection itself is a good enough reason IMO. I will say timegating can effect people who already don’t like collections into then complaining about collections and like you said LS content. Cause no matter what you do you then got to wait to do something you don’t like already. Also not saying you’re wrong or anything(just to be clear) but what you said made me curious.

The collecting of stuff isnt the issue, it can be annoying but hey like any collection you get the stuff and get the reward. The problem is the ..so far , almost a month of them holding back the collection in a timegated manner that has people upset. If it was just collections then people would sigh about it but go do it knowing they are collecting on their own time frame. Honestly the thing should just fly at this point the amount of time spent looking for collections, waiting for resets, gold spent, should be a flying mount at this point. I was against flying at first, but when you really think about it its not going to change anything in the world people will still have to do events/metas/etc..just slap a 80 restriction on using the mount, keep the no mount zones like JP's as they are, and let this thing fly. There is no open world pvp in this game so that cant be used as an excuse for no flying.

[LucianDK.8615]

Both lamps and food can be bought on TP if you arent willing to wait for charged quartz or is unable to craft it. The tp barons is already gouging it to hell.

[RizelStar.3724]

@Adenin.5973 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:hundreds of gold? Not really. Luckilly I sat on 30 charged quartz I had made a while ago. But Ive heard you also need a grow lamp which is 24g on tp if you arent able to or willing to make it yourself.

It's for me 80g now and price is skyrocketing. Another thing because of the timegating., If you didn't rush it at day 1, you are now paying 10 times more already

Isn’t that something so now you’re essentially being punished for being patient which is what timegating is suppose to do for people(artificially). Albeit a choice but that’s still ironic.

[Excursion.9752]

First off I am not rushing through the content. I just barely started looking for the eggs and I dislike any time gated content unless there is a specific reason for it. Having people wait just to wait is ridiculous. Time gates are designed to make people come back over and over again for a long period of time. Typically goes hand in hand with the company letting the users buy in game currency with real money to remove those time gates.

This is not the case here. I am unsure of the motive behind it. Since this will not impact users forever why is it there in the game in the first place other than to slow down progress with a roadblock. I am failing to see the "gain" so to speak. If it is to keep people playing for a week they have way bigger problems than we know about.

[Tiviana.2650]

@LucianDK.8615 said:Both lamps and food can be bought on TP if you arent willing to wait for charged quartz or is unable to craft it. The tp barons is already gouging it to hell.

Thats great i have 17g on my account considering when i logged off last night the food was 7g 59s and the lamp was 94g i think there will be a good many players that will have to wait it out.

[LucianDK.8615]

@RizelStar.3724 said:

@Adenin.5973 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:hundreds of gold? Not really. Luckilly I sat on 30 charged quartz I had made a while ago. But Ive heard you also need a grow lamp which is 24g on tp if you arent able to or willing to make it yourself.

It's for me 80g now and price is skyrocketing. Another thing because of the timegating., If you didn't rush it at day 1, you are now paying 10 times more already

Isn’t that something so now you’re essentially being punished for being patient which is what timegating is suppose to do for people(artificially). Albeit a choice but that’s still ironic.

I think you got it wrong. If you are patient, then you make the charged quartz yourself and it will cost much less.

[Annaveil.5201]

@"Excursion.9752" said:First off I am not rushing through the content. I just barely started looking for the eggs and I dislike any time gated content unless there is a specific reason for it. Having people wait just to wait is ridiculous. Time gates are designed to make people come back over and over again for a long period of time. Typically goes hand in hand with the company letting the users buy in game currency with real money to remove those time gates.

This is not the case here. I am unsure of the motive behind it. Since this will not impact users forever why is it there in the game in the first place other than to slow down progress with a roadblock. I am failing to see the "gain" so to speak. If it is to keep people playing for a week they have way bigger problems than we know about.

What would you consider to be an acceptable specific reason for time gating?

[RizelStar.3724]

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@RizelStar.3724 said:

@Adenin.5973 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:hundreds of gold? Not really. Luckilly I sat on 30 charged quartz I had made a while ago. But Ive heard you also need a grow lamp which is 24g on tp if you arent able to or willing to make it yourself.

It's for me 80g now and price is skyrocketing. Another thing because of the timegating., If you didn't rush it at day 1, you are now paying 10 times more already

Isn’t that something so now you’re essentially being punished for being patient which is what timegating is suppose to do for people(artificially). Albeit a choice but that’s still ironic.

I think you got it wrong. If you are patient, then you make the charged quartz yourself and it will cost much less.

You right I did it get it wrong.(I’m serious)

Aww damn well while I’m wrong it now sort of pushes people into having the wait if they don’t want to or have that kind of time,sheesh! That or pay more for being late. So it still punishes at least options? Could be wrong there maybe it opened up more options? Personally I was intending on learning how to do the stuff without paying gold.

[Fengzhou.9853]

@LucianDK.8615 said:hundreds of gold? Not really. Luckilly I sat on 30 charged quartz I had made a while ago. But Ive heard you also need a grow lamp which is 24g on tp if you arent able to or willing to make it yourself.

Last I checked this morning that grow lamp is around 75g now..

[Tiviana.2650]

I think for what has to go into it, it should be a flying mount. I was okay when it was said 4 or 5 days of collections. Now that has expanded to include 24 hour cooldowns, dragged out and pretty hefty gold price. For people that dont have the ability to play long hours and newer players this is mission impossible.

[Obtena.7952]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:I think it's funny someone complains about the time gate ... I guess spending 250G is more to your liking?

From a brand new account, by the time I got to the end of PoF story, I had 500g in the bank. The collection for the Gryphon took me about a week, off and on, between doing fractals, WvW and metas.

The Beetle collection took me a weekend, 3 months after it was released, as I didn't really care about it and procrastinated that chapter of LW.

I was more interested in the Skyscale than the Beetle, but based on what I'm seeing of the collection, I may just give it a pass, since I already have the Gryphon.

EDIT: in addition, if you have enough resources and gold, you could technically craft any of the Gen 1 or Gen 2 legendary weapons in the same day. If you're very hardcore, you could even do the collections for the Gen 1 / 2 Precursors in the same day.

So now we are saying the Skyscale is more "prestigious" than legendary weapons?

You're going to have back up a bit ... I don't know what legendary weapons have to do with this so I'm just ignore that.

MMO's make you pay .... one way or the other. The whole reason these threads exist is that people don't want to 'pay', regardless of currency.

[LucianDK.8615]

On eu side grow lamp is 64g right now.

[Ashen.2907]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I think it's funny someone complains about the time gate ... I guess spending 250G is more to your liking?

From a brand new account, by the time I got to the end of PoF story, I had 500g in the bank. The collection for the Gryphon took me about a week, off and on, between doing fractals, WvW and metas.

The Beetle collection took me a weekend, 3 months after it was released, as I didn't really care about it and procrastinated that chapter of LW.

I was more interested in the Skyscale than the Beetle, but based on what I'm seeing of the collection, I may just give it a pass, since I already have the Gryphon.

EDIT: in addition, if you have enough resources and gold, you could technically craft any of the Gen 1 or Gen 2 legendary weapons in the same day. If you're very hardcore, you could even do the collections for the Gen 1 / 2 Precursors in the same day.

So now we are saying the Skyscale is more "prestigious" than legendary weapons?

You're going to have back up a bit ... I don't know what legendary weapons have to do with this so I'm just ignore that.

MMO's make you pay .... one way or the other. The whole reason these threads exist is that people don't want to 'pay', regardless of currency.

People are saying that they are willing to pay but that ANet is delaying taking their currency.

The time gate, as identified so far, is much more expensive than gold for me.

[MokahTGS.7850]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I think it's funny someone complains about the time gate ... I guess spending 250G is more to your liking?

From a brand new account, by the time I got to the end of PoF story, I had 500g in the bank. The collection for the Gryphon took me about a week, off and on, between doing fractals, WvW and metas.

The Beetle collection took me a weekend, 3 months after it was released, as I didn't really care about it and procrastinated that chapter of LW.

I was more interested in the Skyscale than the Beetle, but based on what I'm seeing of the collection, I may just give it a pass, since I already have the Gryphon.

EDIT: in addition, if you have enough resources and gold, you could technically craft any of the Gen 1 or Gen 2 legendary weapons in the same day. If you're very hardcore, you could even do the collections for the Gen 1 / 2 Precursors in the same day.

So now we are saying the Skyscale is more "prestigious" than legendary weapons?

You're going to have back up a bit ... I don't know what legendary weapons have to do with this so I'm just ignore that.

MMO's make you pay .... one way or the other. The whole reason these threads exist is that people don't want to 'pay', regardless of currency.

What people are upset about is that some people have to "pay" more than others...in many cases, significantly more than others.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I think it's funny someone complains about the time gate ... I guess spending 250G is more to your liking?

From a brand new account, by the time I got to the end of PoF story, I had 500g in the bank. The collection for the Gryphon took me about a week, off and on, between doing fractals, WvW and metas.

The Beetle collection took me a weekend, 3 months after it was released, as I didn't really care about it and procrastinated that chapter of LW.

I was more interested in the Skyscale than the Beetle, but based on what I'm seeing of the collection, I may just give it a pass, since I already have the Gryphon.

EDIT: in addition, if you have enough resources and gold, you could technically craft any of the Gen 1 or Gen 2 legendary weapons in the same day. If you're very hardcore, you could even do the collections for the Gen 1 / 2 Precursors in the same day.

So now we are saying the Skyscale is more "prestigious" than legendary weapons?

You're going to have back up a bit ... I don't know what legendary weapons have to do with this so I'm just ignore that.

MMO's make you pay .... one way or the other. The whole reason these threads exist is that people don't want to 'pay', regardless of currency ...BUT

if I had to pay, it's 'cheaper' with a time-gate than it is with gold.

The Legendary bit wasn't in response to you, but I've seen many people comparing the mount to legendary grinds in terms of it's cost/ prestige.

But I disagree that this is an issue of 'cost'. As I said, by the time I got to where I needed 250g for the Gryphon, I had double that in my account. When I got to the Beetle collection, the only time gates in place were: did I miss "x" event and have to wait for it come around again. Raptor, Jackal, Skimmer, Springer, Warclaw, all were either free, required a small cost in gold (8g for Warclaw / 25g for Jackal IIRC) or required heart completion / collection.

The common thread there is all were attainable by players at their own pace. I had a guildy who played WvW 5hrs straight to get the Warclaw. I myself did the Beetle collection over a weekend, the hardest part was the SW beetle since it was months after the content had gone live.

Nothing released so far in this game justifies how ANET is handling this mount....except perhaps Aurora.

There are far far far more players flying the Gryphon than those who own Aurora. That says everything about people's stomach for lengthy time gates vs willingness to spend gold.

[Adenin.5973]

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@RizelStar.3724 said:

@Adenin.5973 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:hundreds of gold? Not really. Luckilly I sat on 30 charged quartz I had made a while ago. But Ive heard you also need a grow lamp which is 24g on tp if you arent able to or willing to make it yourself.

It's for me 80g now and price is skyrocketing. Another thing because of the timegating., If you didn't rush it at day 1, you are now paying 10 times more already

Isn’t that something so now you’re essentially being punished for being patient which is what timegating is suppose to do for people(artificially). Albeit a choice but that’s still ironic.

I think you got it wrong. If you are patient, then you make the charged quartz yourself and it will cost much less.

It punishes the "normal" ppl. If you are extremely impatient and rush it at any cost, you actually get away with it, since you would've bought the items before most others at a far less price.

If you are uber patient, you craft everything yourself but the collection then might take a month or longer (who knows what the next collection will be right?)

If you are a normal player, you don't rush immediately but want to get it done eventually, so you do it at 2-4 days delay and you eventually get presented with the option to wait 20 days+ or to buy it for a far far higher price than the ppl that rushed it.