[Spoiler] No hint for what's after this episode?

Glider.5792 · May 15, 2019

@flog.3485 said:Hmm there is also the fact at some point during the story, Rox was willing to talk about something important, and then, later on at the end, she was not part of the crew that flew back to LA.

She stayed with the Olmakhan. Thats what she wanted to tell Braham.

Evil.1580 · May 15, 2019

Landing so close to the Unending Ocean (basically in it) might have awakened some deep sea dragons ;)

Deihnyx.6318 · May 15, 2019

I'm kinda hoping Bubble/Steve.

Eloc Freidon.5692 · May 16, 2019

Maybe we'll get something revealed in a couple months?

Dreamreaver.4908 · May 16, 2019

Oh, there's a hint alright... makes up speculation from out of nowhere.

Canach is dreadfully quiet.

Juillin.5361 · May 16, 2019

Yes, the other seasons ended with some kind of preview of what was to come. Season 2 gave us the HOT logo and Season 3 teased Crytal desert. This episode is different from those, though, in that on top of being a season finale, we actually killed an Elder Dragon. If you compare it to the end of the Personal Story and the end of HOT, where we did the same thing, both of those instances end without giving much of a hint as to what was coming next.

Chalk it up to The Commander's personality; they're very reactive and I doubt have much of a plan as far as what happens next, so why should we? They achieved their one current goal of dealing with Kralk, so #endscene.

Annaveil.5201 · May 16, 2019

"Mother..."

Tiviana.2650 · May 16, 2019

@KidRoleplay.3615 said:Oh, there's a hint alright... makes up speculation from out of nowhere.
Canach is dreadfully quiet.

I did find that curious, plus he says something to the commander that makes me wonder.

Genesis.8572 · May 16, 2019

@videoboy.4162 said:
@zealex.9410 said:
@videoboy.4162 said:
Kralk all but confirms that Bubbles is the Original Mother Dragon and has been sabotaging the others with excess magic.

w8, how? Do you have a specific reference to this? I do recall a line from kralk sounding like he was set up, but i dont remember

It's while fighting Kralk's Torment. Kralk is talking to Aurene the whole time and starts talking to her about another female dragon. He mentions how she was the first of them and had been betraying her own kind. Bubbles is the only Elder Dragon left that hasn't been established as male. Or at least identifying/being voiced as male. Anet is super weird about that. Then, one of his final lines is "mother." I wish I had thought to take a screen shot of his dialogue when he was discussing it.

I believe that you misread that fight.

The fight depicts a sort of schizophrenia between the personalities of Kraalkatorik and Kraalkatorik's Torment. Kraalkatorik's Torment speaking to Kraalkatorik refers to

Aurene

as the betrayer of her own kind. Which is obvious in the context of Aurene aligned with mortals in fighting Kraalkatorik and opposing the Elder Dragons. It is Aurene who is referred to the first of her kind, with Kraalkatorik even saying elsewhere that Aurene is different in her ability to balance her inner magics.

Emberheart.8426 · May 16, 2019

There are a few minor hints in the end, but nothing that truly gives away the exact theme of LW5. I won't go into all of them here to avoid major spoilers, but I will say that we are likely not going back to Elona. In the epilogue spearmarshal Zaeim tells the commander that he will find good people to help repair Elona and govern it. The commander replies by saying "Yeah... You do that.". To me that is a hint that we will have no involvement in Elonian affairs in LW5.

videoboy.4162 · May 16, 2019

@Genesis.8572 said:
@videoboy.4162 said:
@zealex.9410 said:
@videoboy.4162 said:
Kralk all but confirms that Bubbles is the Original Mother Dragon and has been sabotaging the others with excess magic.

w8, how? Do you have a specific reference to this? I do recall a line from kralk sounding like he was set up, but i dont remember

It's while fighting Kralk's Torment. Kralk is talking to Aurene the whole time and starts talking to her about another female dragon. He mentions how she was the first of them and had been betraying her own kind. Bubbles is the only Elder Dragon left that hasn't been established as male. Or at least identifying/being voiced as male. Anet is super weird about that. Then, one of his final lines is "mother." I wish I had thought to take a screen shot of his dialogue when he was discussing it.

I believe that you misread that fight.

The fight depicts a sort of schizophrenia between the personalities of Kraalkatorik and Kraalkatorik's Torment. Kraalkatorik's Torment speaking to Kraalkatorik refers to

Aurene

as the betrayer of her own kind. Which is obvious in the context of Aurene aligned with mortals in fighting Kraalkatorik and opposing the Elder Dragons. It is Aurene who is referred to the first of her kind, with Kraalkatorik even saying elsewhere that Aurene is different in her ability to balance her inner magics.

I could see that being the case, if we omitted his final comment. Your interpretation could very well be correct, but where does the final line fit?

Zola.6197 · May 17, 2019

He's 100% talking about Aurene at that moment lol. The Mother thing pretty much comes out of nowhere and insinuates that Kralk likely inherited his power from his mother in a manner similar to Aurene inheriting his.

mercury ranique.2170 · May 17, 2019

I think there are plenty of hints, but they are also too obscure to call it a direction. Later it will all fall into place, but till then we can only guess and fanfiction.

So to speculate.

Kralk hints that Aurene can hold the different powers in herself unlike he could and that it would be her strength, making her the first of her kind.
In an earlier theory I have put down that the influence of Gods and Dragons are simular. It was dismissed. We know that Balthazar took Primordus his power and his power was again taken by Kralk. It was represented as the facet of fire and war.
We know the all is too big for anyone to be comprehended. One can only grasp a portion of it.
We know That both Kralk, Glint and Aurene can hold different magic in different facets. But Glint and Aurene can control it, but Kralk could not.
We know there is a sixt elder dragon, the deep seas dragon.
We know there is a mom.

So to theorise more, lets link the dragons once again (not saying they are really connected, but maybe tied to the same sphere of influence the All)Zhaithan - GrenthMordremoth - MelandruPrimordus - BalthazarKralkatorik - Lyssa or Abadon/KormirJormag - Lyssa or abadon/Kormir

This leaves Deep seas dragon and Dwayna. The first God to arrive to Tyria (according to the scrolls). She is the mother of Grenth. She is the Godd of air. The first thing we breath.

My main theory is that the last sphere of influence is the sphere of origin and birth. The first thing you do when being born is breath. It is our beginning, just as it is the end. The sea provides and the sea takes. So to me it seems we are going to the deep sea.

The only issue here would be that underwater combat is so troublesome.

Evil.1580 · May 17, 2019

Is it possible that Bubbles is Aurene's mother?

mercury ranique.2170 · May 17, 2019

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Is it possible that Bubbles is Aurene's mother?

No, Glint is Aurene's mother

Shortage.5427 · May 17, 2019

@Sicarine.3985 said:Y'all forget. Balance requires the existence of 6 elder dragons. There are only 4. We kind of also have to fix that.

I think the forgot all about that plot. It is what I don't get, when they stand before an exposed elder dragon's heart and the one thing the do I just crudely stab it. Instead of actually trying to preserve the balance like the said. It's like the Priory's research meant nothing. I hate how lovey dovey everything is. We lost nothing thus we gained nothing. Every episode is filled with deus ex machina tier events.

derd.6413 · May 17, 2019

@Shortage.5427 said:
@Sicarine.3985 said:Y'all forget. Balance requires the existence of 6 elder dragons. There are only 4. We kind of also have to fix that.

I think the forgot all about that plot. It is what I don't get, when they stand before an exposed elder dragon's heart and the one thing the do I just crudely stab it. Instead of actually trying to preserve the balance like the said.

we knew that aurene would become the next ED if we killed kralk. the balance was always gonna be unchanged with kralks death if we worked with aurene

Shortage.5427 · May 17, 2019

@derd.6413 said:
@Shortage.5427 said:
@Sicarine.3985 said:Y'all forget. Balance requires the existence of 6 elder dragons. There are only 4. We kind of also have to fix that.

I think the forgot all about that plot. It is what I don't get, when they stand before an exposed elder dragon's heart and the one thing the do I just crudely stab it. Instead of actually trying to preserve the balance like the said.

we knew that aurene would become the next ED if we killed kralk. the balance was always gonna be unchanged with kralks death if we worked with aurene

So let's just ignore Modremoth and Zhaitan for a few more millennia. Also Glint and Kraikatorik once existed together. So two Elder Dragons used the same power? Lazy writing is lazy.

Bast.7253 · May 17, 2019

@mercury ranique.2170 said:I think there are plenty of hints, but they are also too obscure to call it a direction. Later it will all fall into place, but till then we can only guess and fanfiction.
So to speculate.
Kralk hints that Aurene can hold the different powers in herself unlike he could and that it would be her strength, making her the first of her kind.
In an earlier theory I have put down that the influence of Gods and Dragons are simular. It was dismissed. We know that Balthazar took Primordus his power and his power was again taken by Kralk. It was represented as the facet of fire and war.
We know the all is too big for anyone to be comprehended. One can only grasp a portion of it.
We know That both Kralk, Glint and Aurene can hold different magic in different facets. But Glint and Aurene can control it, but Kralk could not.
We know there is a sixt elder dragon, the deep seas dragon.
We know there is a mom.
So to theorise more, lets link the dragons once again (not saying they are really connected, but maybe tied to the same sphere of influence the All)Zhaithan - GrenthMordremoth - MelandruPrimordus - BalthazarKralkatorik - Lyssa or Abadon/KormirJormag - Lyssa or abadon/Kormir
This leaves Deep seas dragon and Dwayna. The first God to arrive to Tyria (according to the scrolls). She is the mother of Grenth. She is the Godd of air. The first thing we breath.
My main theory is that the last sphere of influence is the sphere of origin and birth. The first thing you do when being born is breath. It is our beginning, just as it is the end. The sea provides and the sea takes. So to me it seems we are going to the deep sea.
The only issue here would be that underwater combat is so troublesome.

I can follow Mordremoth - Melandru, Primordus - Balthazar, and even Zhaitan - Grenth. But Grenth could just as easily be Jormag.

I think if the deep sea dragon is related to anyone, it would be Lyssa. Kralk could be Komir/Abaddon, I guess, but could also be Dwayna.

I do kind of see the connection between Kralk and Lyssa though, given they both have that sense of duality.

I also wonder at what point the elder dragons started going mad, at least with Kralk. It's confusing because it seems like his torment was created solely from his exposure to Balth, Zhaitan, and Mordremoth, but he was doing bad things way before that. The only thing I can think of is that he HAD to do those things and kill Glint in order to lead to Aurene being born. But if that were the case, why wouldn't he have just stayed away from everyone in his nice little resting spot? Long before he killed Glint. Did he intentionally provoke the fight, because he foresaw some elder dragon somewhere getting killed and the others going crazy, and just decided to take the bullet himself and become a sort of prophetic anti-hero mastermind?

It just doesn't really make sense to me. Is it too much magic in general that drives them insane eventually?

derd.6413 · May 17, 2019

@Shortage.5427 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Shortage.5427 said:
@Sicarine.3985 said:Y'all forget. Balance requires the existence of 6 elder dragons. There are only 4. We kind of also have to fix that.

I think the forgot all about that plot. It is what I don't get, when they stand before an exposed elder dragon's heart and the one thing the do I just crudely stab it. Instead of actually trying to preserve the balance like the said.

we knew that aurene would become the next ED if we killed kralk. the balance was always gonna be unchanged with kralks death if we worked with aurene

So let's just ignore Modremoth and Zhaitan for a few more millennia. Also Glint and Kraikatorik once existed together. So two Elder Dragons used the same power? Lazy writing is lazy.

glint wasn't an elder dragon.

AlexxxDelta.1806 · May 17, 2019

@"cptaylor.2670" said:
@mercury ranique.2170 said:I think there are plenty of hints, but they are also too obscure to call it a direction. Later it will all fall into place, but till then we can only guess and fanfiction.
So to speculate.
Kralk hints that Aurene can hold the different powers in herself unlike he could and that it would be her strength, making her the first of her kind.
In an earlier theory I have put down that the influence of Gods and Dragons are simular. It was dismissed. We know that Balthazar took Primordus his power and his power was again taken by Kralk. It was represented as the facet of fire and war.
We know the all is too big for anyone to be comprehended. One can only grasp a portion of it.
We know That both Kralk, Glint and Aurene can hold different magic in different facets. But Glint and Aurene can control it, but Kralk could not.
We know there is a sixt elder dragon, the deep seas dragon.
We know there is a mom.
So to theorise more, lets link the dragons once again (not saying they are really connected, but maybe tied to the same sphere of influence the All)Zhaithan - GrenthMordremoth - MelandruPrimordus - BalthazarKralkatorik - Lyssa or Abadon/KormirJormag - Lyssa or abadon/Kormir
This leaves Deep seas dragon and Dwayna. The first God to arrive to Tyria (according to the scrolls). She is the mother of Grenth. She is the Godd of air. The first thing we breath.
My main theory is that the last sphere of influence is the sphere of origin and birth. The first thing you do when being born is breath. It is our beginning, just as it is the end. The sea provides and the sea takes. So to me it seems we are going to the deep sea.
The only issue here would be that underwater combat is so troublesome.

I can follow Mordremoth - Melandru, Primordus - Balthazar, and even Zhaitan - Grenth. But Grenth could just as easily be Jormag.

I think if the deep sea dragon is related to anyone, it would be Lyssa. Kralk could be Komir/Abaddon, I guess, but could also be Dwayna.

I do kind of see the connection between Kralk and Lyssa though, given they both have that sense of duality.

I also wonder at what point the elder dragons started going mad, at least with Kralk. It's confusing because it seems like his torment was created solely from his exposure to Balth, Zhaitan, and Mordremoth, but he was doing bad things way before that. The only thing I can think of is that he HAD to do those things and kill Glint in order to lead to Aurene being born. But if that were the case, why wouldn't he have just stayed away from everyone in his nice little resting spot? Long before he killed Glint. Did he intentionally provoke the fight, because he foresaw some elder dragon somewhere getting killed and the others going crazy, and just decided to take the bullet himself and become a sort of prophetic anti-hero mastermind?

It just doesn't really make sense to me. Is it too much magic in general that drives them insane eventually?

The way I understood it is that Elder Dragons in general are forced to do what they do. They are essentially used as tools for reasons we don't know yet. So yes, the insanity came from absorbing all that magic but even before that he was never fully in control.

The first elder dragon to break free of that is Aurene since she is a unique one and I think that's the reason he calls her first of her kind.

Aeolus.3615 · May 17, 2019

Guildwars 2 utopia is what is next, characters look that way so does the map zone we are diving to.

mercury ranique.2170 · May 17, 2019

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
@"cptaylor.2670" said:
@mercury ranique.2170 said:I think there are plenty of hints, but they are also too obscure to call it a direction. Later it will all fall into place, but till then we can only guess and fanfiction.
So to speculate.
Kralk hints that Aurene can hold the different powers in herself unlike he could and that it would be her strength, making her the first of her kind.
In an earlier theory I have put down that the influence of Gods and Dragons are simular. It was dismissed. We know that Balthazar took Primordus his power and his power was again taken by Kralk. It was represented as the facet of fire and war.
We know the all is too big for anyone to be comprehended. One can only grasp a portion of it.
We know That both Kralk, Glint and Aurene can hold different magic in different facets. But Glint and Aurene can control it, but Kralk could not.
We know there is a sixt elder dragon, the deep seas dragon.
We know there is a mom.
So to theorise more, lets link the dragons once again (not saying they are really connected, but maybe tied to the same sphere of influence the All)Zhaithan - GrenthMordremoth - MelandruPrimordus - BalthazarKralkatorik - Lyssa or Abadon/KormirJormag - Lyssa or abadon/Kormir
This leaves Deep seas dragon and Dwayna. The first God to arrive to Tyria (according to the scrolls). She is the mother of Grenth. She is the Godd of air. The first thing we breath.
My main theory is that the last sphere of influence is the sphere of origin and birth. The first thing you do when being born is breath. It is our beginning, just as it is the end. The sea provides and the sea takes. So to me it seems we are going to the deep sea.
The only issue here would be that underwater combat is so troublesome.

I can follow Mordremoth - Melandru, Primordus - Balthazar, and even Zhaitan - Grenth. But Grenth could just as easily be Jormag.

I think if the deep sea dragon is related to anyone, it would be Lyssa. Kralk could be Komir/Abaddon, I guess, but could also be Dwayna.

I do kind of see the connection between Kralk and Lyssa though, given they both have that sense of duality.

I also wonder at what point the elder dragons started going mad, at least with Kralk. It's confusing because it seems like his torment was created solely from his exposure to Balth, Zhaitan, and Mordremoth, but he was doing bad things way before that. The only thing I can think of is that he HAD to do those things and kill Glint in order to lead to Aurene being born. But if that were the case, why wouldn't he have just stayed away from everyone in his nice little resting spot? Long before he killed Glint. Did he intentionally provoke the fight, because he foresaw some elder dragon somewhere getting killed and the others going crazy, and just decided to take the bullet himself and become a sort of prophetic anti-hero mastermind?

It just doesn't really make sense to me. Is it too much magic in general that drives them insane eventually?

The way I understood it is that Elder Dragons in general are forced to do what they do. They are essentially used as tools for reasons we don't know yet. So yes, the insanity came from absorbing all that magic but even before that he was never fully in control.

The first elder dragon to break free of that is Aurene since she is a unique one and I think that's the reason he calls her first of her kind.

I agree mostly and to elaborate a bit more. We tend to do evil things to ants, pigs, cows and grass. But we do not consider ourself evil. It is the natural order of things. In order to exist, they have to consume magic. It is what defines them and makes them an elder dragon. So they do not see themself as evil, but understand we do see them that way, just like we understand that ants feel that way about us. We tend to feel we have a lot of control, but many of our actions are triggered by higher things (trying to avoid discussions about religion, intelligent design or simply science and nature here).They do what they need to do. It is neither free will or commanded, but it just is.

There is also a difference between the vessel and the magic. The powers come from the magic that defines them as an elder dragon. It is what makes them do what they do, but also what they are capable off. The different types of magic from three elder dragons where causing a conflict and in that a torment.

Danikat.8537 · May 17, 2019

There wasn't any direct hint about what's coming next. I suspect that's a combination of marketing and practicalities. Apart from Season 1 all the previous living story endings lead directly into an expansion so I suspect they were designed to end on a 'cliff hanger' so we want to know what happens next and are more likely to want to buy the expansion. This time it's leading into the next season instead, so there doesn't need to be the same kind of marketing hook.

But also with all the upheaval at Anet recently I suspect the next season isn't as far along as it normally would be at this point and they don't want to show it to us yet.

But as people have said there's plenty of possibilities. Rytlock and Logan mentioned that all the unstable wild magic is still around, Elona is still in chaos, we're still short 2 elder dragons and have 3 who are still hostile to us and extremely dangerous, whether they're essential to the balance of magic or not. Plus all the "business as usual" trouble like the Inquest, Flame Legion, bandits etc.

And if we somehow don't need to worry about all that we've got huge areas of the world still unexplored, I'm sure we could go find/make trouble somewhere new.

@derd.6413 said:
@Shortage.5427 said:
@derd.6413 said:
@Shortage.5427 said:
@Sicarine.3985 said:Y'all forget. Balance requires the existence of 6 elder dragons. There are only 4. We kind of also have to fix that.

I think the forgot all about that plot. It is what I don't get, when they stand before an exposed elder dragon's heart and the one thing the do I just crudely stab it. Instead of actually trying to preserve the balance like the said.

we knew that aurene would become the next ED if we killed kralk. the balance was always gonna be unchanged with kralks death if we worked with aurene

So let's just ignore Modremoth and Zhaitan for a few more millennia. Also Glint and Kraikatorik once existed together. So two Elder Dragons used the same power? Lazy writing is lazy.

glint wasn't an elder dragon.

Agreed. Glint was one of Kralkatorrik's champions, like the Shatterer, Tequatl, Claw of Jormag etc. So she was a dragon, but not an elder dragon. (See the text in the spoiler tags below for more on this.)

And I don't think we're ignoring Zhaitan and Mordremoth. We didn't know until after they had died that the world needed the elder dragons for balance or that killing them would release massive amounts of magic which would cause all kinds of problems. We knew that elder dragons ate huge amounts of magic, and from our perspective that was throwing the world out of balance (not to mention killing a lot of people and corrupting the land in the process) but I think the assumption was that when one was killed that magic would dissipate naturally back to where it came from. Because no one had ever killed an elder dragon before (as far as we know) and there are barely even any records of what happened last time they were awake we had no way of knowing what would happen until after we'd killed them.

So yes, we made a mistake, and somehow it will need to be put right. But that's easier said than done. A lot of that magic is now inside the other elder dragons and, unless Kralk is the exception, causing them all kinds of problems. Some is causing things like the ley line anomalies, rifts etc. which we have been dealing with. Assuming attacking them is dealing with it? Not sure what the long term effects might be there either.

But we don't exactly have a supply of spare elder dragons to come in and replace the ones we killed, and there's no much else which could contain that much magic so I guess we're stuck on a long-term solution for now.

@Genesis.8572 said:
@videoboy.4162 said:
@zealex.9410 said:
@videoboy.4162 said:
Kralk all but confirms that Bubbles is the Original Mother Dragon and has been sabotaging the others with excess magic.

w8, how? Do you have a specific reference to this? I do recall a line from kralk sounding like he was set up, but i dont remember

It's while fighting Kralk's Torment. Kralk is talking to Aurene the whole time and starts talking to her about another female dragon. He mentions how she was the first of them and had been betraying her own kind. Bubbles is the only Elder Dragon left that hasn't been established as male. Or at least identifying/being voiced as male. Anet is super weird about that. Then, one of his final lines is "mother." I wish I had thought to take a screen shot of his dialogue when he was discussing it.

I believe that you misread that fight.

The fight depicts a sort of schizophrenia between the personalities of Kraalkatorik and Kraalkatorik's Torment. Kraalkatorik's Torment speaking to Kraalkatorik refers to

Aurene

as the betrayer of her own kind. Which is obvious in the context of Aurene aligned with mortals in fighting Kraalkatorik and opposing the Elder Dragons. It is Aurene who is referred to the first of her kind, with Kraalkatorik even saying elsewhere that Aurene is different in her ability to balance her inner magics.

That's how I interpreted it too. Kralkatorrik and Kralk's Torment are two different personalities arguing with each other, about Aurene. The Torment one thinks she betrayed him (and other other elder dragons) by siding with mortals, the 'normal' one think's she's found a brilliant way to do something he never could and is the first of a new kind of dragon.

I don't know why he said "Mother" right at the end, but if Kralkatorrik was able to have a daughter and grandchildren it makes sense he would have a mother too. One common theory about the elder dragons is that at one time there were lots of 'true' dragons in Tyria (pretty much confirmed by the presence of bone dragons in GW1) and the elder dragons are simply the oldest/strongest of them. Which also fits with things like Tequatl getting stronger after Zhaitan died (which is in the lore, not just a mechanics re-work), it looks like with the elder undead dragon gone another undead dragon would take his place and become the new elder undead dragon. Just like Aurene became the new elder crystal dragon.

AlexxxDelta.1806 · May 17, 2019

@mercury ranique.2170 said:
@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
@"cptaylor.2670" said:
@mercury ranique.2170 said:I think there are plenty of hints, but they are also too obscure to call it a direction. Later it will all fall into place, but till then we can only guess and fanfiction.
So to speculate.
Kralk hints that Aurene can hold the different powers in herself unlike he could and that it would be her strength, making her the first of her kind.
In an earlier theory I have put down that the influence of Gods and Dragons are simular. It was dismissed. We know that Balthazar took Primordus his power and his power was again taken by Kralk. It was represented as the facet of fire and war.
We know the all is too big for anyone to be comprehended. One can only grasp a portion of it.
We know That both Kralk, Glint and Aurene can hold different magic in different facets. But Glint and Aurene can control it, but Kralk could not.
We know there is a sixt elder dragon, the deep seas dragon.
We know there is a mom.
So to theorise more, lets link the dragons once again (not saying they are really connected, but maybe tied to the same sphere of influence the All)Zhaithan - GrenthMordremoth - MelandruPrimordus - BalthazarKralkatorik - Lyssa or Abadon/KormirJormag - Lyssa or abadon/Kormir
This leaves Deep seas dragon and Dwayna. The first God to arrive to Tyria (according to the scrolls). She is the mother of Grenth. She is the Godd of air. The first thing we breath.
My main theory is that the last sphere of influence is the sphere of origin and birth. The first thing you do when being born is breath. It is our beginning, just as it is the end. The sea provides and the sea takes. So to me it seems we are going to the deep sea.
The only issue here would be that underwater combat is so troublesome.