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Spoilers: Foreshadow of next season??


Rubedo.8769

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After thinking on this for a while more, I'm inclined to agree that perhaps the "Mother" that Kralk was talking to was in fact Tyria itself. It would make sense. The dragons all represent a force of nature on Tyria. With the new "humanizing" concept that we saw with Kralk at the end, I'm leaning more towards perhaps Tyria is a sentient being, to an extent, that perhaps is dormant, and been dormant for millenia. Perhaps before it went dormant it created the Elder Dragons to watch over the various natural aspects of that world, Fire, Ice, Water, Crystal, Life, etc...

But after so long such power begins to overwhelm and corrupt them. Perhaps they were never meant to hold this power for so long. What I'm suggesting is perhaps Tyria was supposed to "wake up" at some point and never did, forcing the ED's to hold this power even longer than they were ever meant to. Add to that the constant misuse of the various elements by the mortal races, such as waging war, over reliance on magics, etc.. has driven the ED's insane to some extent as they tried to hold it all in check and balance. So eventually they all just kind of went insane and now are turning on their creator.

Perhaps that is what Kralk meant when he said that he hope Aurene never has to kill one she loves. Perhaps he was speaking of killing Tyria, who could be his "Mother" who he loved originally but has turned on with his torments.

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@"Rubedo.8769" said:After thinking on this for a while more, I'm inclined to agree that perhaps the "Mother" that Kralk was talking to was in fact Tyria itself. It would make sense. The dragons all represent a force of nature on Tyria. With the new "humanizing" concept that we saw with Kralk at the end, I'm leaning more towards perhaps Tyria is a sentient being, to an extent, that perhaps is dormant, and been dormant for millenia. Perhaps before it went dormant it created the Elder Dragons to watch over the various natural aspects of that world, Fire, Ice, Water, Crystal, Life, etc...

Maybe we should call Kraalkatorik "Amethyst WEAPON"? Or Ruby I guess, since he lived in the desert.

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@"Rubedo.8769" said:After thinking on this for a while more, I'm inclined to agree that perhaps the "Mother" that Kralk was talking to was in fact Tyria itself. It would make sense. The dragons all represent a force of nature on Tyria. With the new "humanizing" concept that we saw with Kralk at the end, I'm leaning more towards perhaps Tyria is a sentient being, to an extent, that perhaps is dormant, and been dormant for millenia. Perhaps before it went dormant it created the Elder Dragons to watch over the various natural aspects of that world, Fire, Ice, Water, Crystal, Life, etc...

But after so long such power begins to overwhelm and corrupt them. Perhaps they were never meant to hold this power for so long. What I'm suggesting is perhaps Tyria was supposed to "wake up" at some point and never did, forcing the ED's to hold this power even longer than they were ever meant to. Add to that the constant misuse of the various elements by the mortal races, such as waging war, over reliance on magics, etc.. has driven the ED's insane to some extent as they tried to hold it all in check and balance. So eventually they all just kind of went insane and now are turning on their creator.

Perhaps that is what Kralk meant when he said that he hope Aurene never has to kill one she loves. Perhaps he was speaking of killing Tyria, who could be his "Mother" who he loved originally but has turned on with his torments.

I was having a similar thought, only what if the Elder Dragon spheres were locks holding something imprisoned within Tyria. Which is why with sufficient elder dragons being taken out the world cracks and releases what is inside. I know it's a longshot, but an interesting thought.

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@Narcemus.1348 said:

@"Rubedo.8769" said:After thinking on this for a while more, I'm inclined to agree that perhaps the "Mother" that Kralk was talking to was in fact Tyria itself. It would make sense. The dragons all represent a force of nature on Tyria. With the new "humanizing" concept that we saw with Kralk at the end, I'm leaning more towards perhaps Tyria is a sentient being, to an extent, that perhaps is dormant, and been dormant for millenia. Perhaps before it went dormant it created the Elder Dragons to watch over the various natural aspects of that world, Fire, Ice, Water, Crystal, Life, etc...

But after so long such power begins to overwhelm and corrupt them. Perhaps they were never meant to hold this power for so long. What I'm suggesting is perhaps Tyria was supposed to "wake up" at some point and never did, forcing the ED's to hold this power even longer than they were ever meant to. Add to that the constant misuse of the various elements by the mortal races, such as waging war, over reliance on magics, etc.. has driven the ED's insane to some extent as they tried to hold it all in check and balance. So eventually they all just kind of went insane and now are turning on their creator.

Perhaps that is what Kralk meant when he said that he hope Aurene never has to kill one she loves. Perhaps he was speaking of killing Tyria, who could be his "Mother" who he loved originally but has turned on with his torments.

I was having a similar thought, only what if the Elder Dragon spheres were locks holding something imprisoned within Tyria. Which is why with sufficient elder dragons being taken out the world cracks and releases what is inside. I know it's a longshot, but an interesting thought.

Interesting, my question would be have we seen any beings of that kind of power? What could possibly take that much power to imprison and what would be able to overcome it to imprison it in the first place? I feel like the way this episode ended we're about to find a new major power in the universe. While I sadly never played the original Guild Wars i do know from various lore videos on youtube (such as WoodenPotatoes) that humans aren't native to Tyria, while most have forgotten the fact, I wonder if this could eventually lead into something where we start "going back to go forward" type of deal. One thing I'm unsure of exactly though is how the humans came to be on Tyria. What brought them here and can we as Tyrians go back?

No matter how this whole thing goes, I feel like we're about to be introduced to some new cosmic force that is going to be greater than anything we've ever seen before, possibly more powerful than the Gods and Elder Dragons combined. Again this is all just casual speculation but I think it will be very interesting to see how this all plays out.

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@ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:That drawing by Scarlet directly conflicts with the Priory's map of the All. And Taimi's simulation that had the Tyria, the central orb, destabilize when Jormag's and Primordus' orbs died.

File:The_All_%28texture%29.png

It would also make zero sense for Zhaitan's orb to crash into the Pale Tree (which was confirmed a representation of Zhaitan's magic spreading into Tyria, iirc), or for the Elder Dragons to revolve around the Pale Tree.

Again, not talking about the Pale Tree here. Talking about something similar but on a world scale where all life originates from, hence "World Tree" where all life is born that summons an avatar similar to the Pale Tree.

Not conflicting at all either since the central sphere remains the same as a representation where all life originates and the other spheres of influence can destroy that central sphere of life if imbalanced.

This World Tree theory is interesting since the Mist, Tyria, and Elder Dragons somewhat represents 7 of the 9 realms in Norse Myth.Asgard is the MistMidgard is TyriaMuspelheim is PrimoNiflheim is JormagAlfheim is MordHelheim is ZhaitanSvartalfheim is KralDeep Sea don't fit in any realm though...

I'm not saying that this is where they got their reference, I simply find it interesting.

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:That drawing by Scarlet directly conflicts with the Priory's map of the All. And Taimi's simulation that had the Tyria, the central orb, destabilize when Jormag's and Primordus' orbs died.

File:The_All_%28texture%29.png

It would also make zero sense for Zhaitan's orb to crash into the Pale Tree (which was confirmed a representation of Zhaitan's magic spreading into Tyria, iirc), or for the Elder Dragons to revolve around the Pale Tree.

Again, not talking about the Pale Tree here. Talking about something similar but on a world scale where all life originates from, hence "World Tree" where all life is born that summons an avatar similar to the Pale Tree.

Not conflicting at all either since the central sphere remains the same as a representation where all life originates and the other spheres of influence can destroy that central sphere of life if imbalanced.

This World Tree theory is interesting since the Mist, Tyria, and Elder Dragons somewhat represents 7 of the 9 realms in Norse Myth.Asgard is the MistMidgard is TyriaMuspelheim is PrimoNiflheim is JormagAlfheim is MordHelheim is ZhaitanSvartalfheim is KralDeep Sea don't fit in any realm though...

I'm not saying that this is where they got their reference, I simply find it interesting.

Ginnungagap apparently is tied to the Ocean in some Norse Texts(despite others claiming there was no Sea when the Ginnungagap first existed).

Deep Sea Dragon is Ginnungagap or Vanaheim(which is tied to Water and Woods)!

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@Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:That drawing by Scarlet directly conflicts with the Priory's map of the All. And Taimi's simulation that had the Tyria, the central orb, destabilize when Jormag's and Primordus' orbs died.

File:The_All_%28texture%29.png

It would also make zero sense for Zhaitan's orb to crash into the Pale Tree (which was confirmed a representation of Zhaitan's magic spreading into Tyria, iirc), or for the Elder Dragons to revolve around the Pale Tree.

Again, not talking about the Pale Tree here. Talking about something similar but on a world scale where all life originates from, hence "World Tree" where all life is born that summons an avatar similar to the Pale Tree.

Not conflicting at all either since the central sphere remains the same as a representation where all life originates and the other spheres of influence can destroy that central sphere of life if imbalanced.

This World Tree theory is interesting since the Mist, Tyria, and Elder Dragons somewhat represents 7 of the 9 realms in Norse Myth.Asgard is the MistMidgard is TyriaMuspelheim is PrimoNiflheim is JormagAlfheim is MordHelheim is ZhaitanSvartalfheim is KralDeep Sea don't fit in any realm though...

I'm not saying that this is where they got their reference, I simply find it interesting.

Deep Sea Dragon is Ginnungagap or Vanaheim(which is tied to Water and Woods)!

Njord is also a Vanir sea god and the father of Freyr and Frejya. Also something something favorable conditions for fisherman and seafarers. But the realm itself is described as a fertile realm of magic and light. Nidavellir is however the 9th and I'm not sure how it would fit into this equation.

I like the correlation. I don't know that it fits all that well, but it's a nice symmetry.

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@"cptaylor.2670" said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:That drawing by Scarlet directly conflicts with the Priory's map of the All. And Taimi's simulation that had the Tyria, the central orb, destabilize when Jormag's and Primordus' orbs died.

File:The_All_%28texture%29.png

It would also make zero sense for Zhaitan's orb to crash into the Pale Tree (which was confirmed a representation of Zhaitan's magic spreading into Tyria, iirc), or for the Elder Dragons to revolve around the Pale Tree.

Again, not talking about the Pale Tree here. Talking about something similar but on a world scale where all life originates from, hence "World Tree" where all life is born that summons an avatar similar to the Pale Tree.

Not conflicting at all either since the central sphere remains the same as a representation where all life originates and the other spheres of influence can destroy that central sphere of life if imbalanced.

This World Tree theory is interesting since the Mist, Tyria, and Elder Dragons somewhat represents 7 of the 9 realms in Norse Myth.Asgard is the MistMidgard is TyriaMuspelheim is PrimoNiflheim is JormagAlfheim is MordHelheim is ZhaitanSvartalfheim is KralDeep Sea don't fit in any realm though...

I'm not saying that this is where they got their reference, I simply find it interesting.

Deep Sea Dragon is Ginnungagap or Vanaheim(which is tied to Water and Woods)!

Njord is also a Vanir sea god and the father of Freyr and Frejya. Also something something favorable conditions for fisherman and seafarers. But the realm itself is described as a fertile realm of magic and light. Nidavellir is however the 9th and I'm not sure how it would fit into this equation.

I like the correlation. I don't know that it fits all that well, but it's a nice symmetry.

Niðavellir and Svartalfheim are one and the same... Helheim is part of Niflheim(as is Niflhelheim) if you were unaware... This means that Jormag doesn't match any of the Nine Realms including the one that doesn't fit into the equation AKA Jotunheim/Utgard(which was apparently turned by Utgard-Loki into a Castle with illusion magic to trick Thor who was traversing Jotunheim)!

It's interesting how Gesta Danorum says it was Utgard-Loki who was bound inside a cave which means he insulted everyone at the party and not the Loki that was Odin's annoying blood-brother like modern readers assume... Utgard-Loki is clearly the main villain of Ragnarok who killed Baldur(tricking Baldur's brother into using Mistilteinn/Mistletoe the sword of the Witch King Þráinn no less) and the nemesis of Heimdall who he mutually kills!

Wonder what happens the normal Loki... The guy is only mentioned as pulling off ridiculous pranks on people and challenging Utgard-Loki's Flame(Norse word for Flame is Logi) to an eating contest so what happened to him?

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I still maintain that the DSD is going to be Cthulhu, at least the Tyrian version of him. So y'all enjoy your sanity while it lasts. ;)

On topic...I'm intrigued by the many mentions of "torment" in the last instance and frankly I'm surprised no one else in this thread has touched on it. We weren't even fighting Kralk so much as his "torment" and he directly mentioned it during the fight. Something to the effect that the "torment" lies and tells him to destroy everything to stop his pain.

As far as I know, the Tyrian Realm of Torment is still there. Who's hanging out there these days?

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@"Tanith.5264" said:I still maintain that the DSD is going to be Cthulhu, at least the Tyrian version of him. So y'all enjoy your sanity while it lasts. ;)

On topic...I'm intrigued by the many mentions of "torment" in the last instance and frankly I'm surprised no one else in this thread has touched on it. We weren't even fighting Kralk so much as his "torment" and he directly mentioned it during the fight. Something to the effect that the "torment" lies and tells him to destroy everything to stop his pain.

As far as I know, the Tyrian Realm of Torment is still there. Who's hanging out there these days?

I assumed it had transformed to match Kormir will

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@"Tanith.5264" said:As far as I know, the Tyrian Realm of Torment is still there. Who's hanging out there these days?

Until Path of Fire, Kormir was. Who was strictly "non-interference with Elder Dragons".

That said, Kralkatorrik's torment is eons old. If it were to be tied to the Realm of Torment, this connection was made long before the Six Gods showed up.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Tanith.5264" said:As far as I know, the Tyrian Realm of Torment is still there. Who's hanging out there these days?

Until Path of Fire, Kormir was. Who was strictly "non-interference with Elder Dragons".

That said, Kralkatorrik's torment is
eons
old. If it were to be tied to the Realm of Torment, this connection was made long before the Six Gods showed up.

You sure? Aurene said that "the magics" were warring within Kralk and tearing him apart. I'd assumed she meant the magic of Zhaitan, Mordy, and Balthazar. Now, none of that has any origin in the RoT either, but I found the choice of words interesting.

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@Tanith.5264 said:

@Tanith.5264 said:As far as I know, the Tyrian Realm of Torment is still there. Who's hanging out there these days?

Until Path of Fire, Kormir was. Who was strictly "non-interference with Elder Dragons".

That said, Kralkatorrik's torment is
eons
old. If it were to be tied to the Realm of Torment, this connection was made long before the Six Gods showed up.

You sure? Aurene said that "the magics" were warring within Kralk and tearing him apart. I'd assumed she meant the magic of Zhaitan, Mordy, and Balthazar. Now, none of that has any origin in the RoT either, but I found the choice of words interesting.

Those magics exasperated the issue. It was clear from flint and snaff who was in his mind, that his rage existed on awakening and had done as part of his nature for a long time

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@Tanith.5264 said:

@Tanith.5264 said:As far as I know, the Tyrian Realm of Torment is still there. Who's hanging out there these days?

Until Path of Fire, Kormir was. Who was strictly "non-interference with Elder Dragons".

That said, Kralkatorrik's torment is
eons
old. If it were to be tied to the Realm of Torment, this connection was made long before the Six Gods showed up.

You sure? Aurene said that "the magics" were warring within Kralk and tearing him apart. I'd assumed she meant the magic of Zhaitan, Mordy, and Balthazar. Now, none of that has any origin in the RoT either, but I found the choice of words interesting.

If he was only tormented from the moment of consuming Zhaitan's magic, then he would have been a good dragon when he woke up and killed Glint. When Snaff goes into Kralkatorrik's mind in Edge of Destiny, what he finds is a mind seeking to consuming and destroying everything and hating that which isn't himself, which is what the Torment tells Kralkatorrik. When Glint talked about Kralkatorrik from ages past (mind you, her memories go only 3,000 years back), it was that all-destroying monstrosity.

Besides that, the Elder Dragons consume magic from the ley lines. In Season 3, Taimi confirmed that the ley lines were a mix of all Tyrian magic. So they'd be consuming all kinds of magic for eons. Just never the magic of a dead cosmic being.

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