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Rank all the classes for most OP WvW 1 vs 1 impromptu fights Mid 2019 (External Poll)


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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Duckota.4769 said:Thief is the worst duelist in the game so I think the original poll says more about the average skill levels of players being polled and not the OPness of said classes.

I love hearing blatantly false statements like this.

Yes thief is a competent 1v1. That's why their delegated to be a runner decapper cuz its too cheesey and easy to duel on them and decapping is the most fun role. They also are best +1 due to how high their crazy burst are,especially compared to specs with weak bursts like rev lmao. Seriously.

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I wonder, of those who ranked Mesmer so high up, how many actually do play it themselves? I don't see that many Mesmers in WvW, there's always some around, but I think I see way more thieves and rangers, hell I am not sure, maybe I even see more engineers. Now, I wonder, why that might be the case ....

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Duckota.4769 said:Thief is the worst duelist in the game so I think the original poll says more about the average skill levels of players being polled and not the OPness of said classes.

I love hearing blatantly false statements like this.

I love people who dont understand balance trying to call me out. They're literally nothing but decappers and +1s at best in pvp and that extends to wvw. If you get beaten by a thief 1v1 you got extremely outplayed.

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@Duckota.4769 said:

@Duckota.4769 said:Thief is the worst duelist in the game so I think the original poll says more about the average skill levels of players being polled and not the OPness of said classes.

I love hearing blatantly false statements like this.

I love people who dont understand balance trying to call me out. They're literally nothing but decappers and +1s at best in pvp and that extends to wvw. If you get beaten by a thief 1v1 you got extremely outplayed.

I'm not a good thief, far from it and I mostly like to use every single profession but, in a sudden fight in WvW I have no issue killing easily single foes. The stealth, mobility and, yes, burst help a lot due to the fact that you got the surprise effect, the time to plan your fight, weight your foe, the ability to close gap quickly, a decent burst and, if things goes south, you got the tools to retreat quickly.

That said, saying that I outplay someone by doing this much would be extremly arrogant, it's more capitalizing on the strenght of the profession than outplaying anyone.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Duckota.4769 said:Thief is the worst duelist in the game so I think the original poll says more about the average skill levels of players being polled and not the OPness of said classes.

I love hearing blatantly false statements like this.

I love people who dont understand balance trying to call me out. They're literally nothing but decappers and +1s at best in pvp and that extends to wvw. If you get beaten by a thief 1v1 you got extremely outplayed.

I'm not a good thief, far from it and I mostly like to use every single profession but, in a sudden fight in WvW I have no issue killing easily single foes. The stealth, mobility and, yes, burst help a lot due to the fact that you got the surprise effect, the time to plan your fight, weight your foe, the ability to close gap quickly, a decent burst and, if things goes south, you got the tools to retreat quickly.

That said, saying that I outplay someone by doing this much would be extremly arrogant, it's more capitalizing on the strenght of the profession than outplaying anyone.

Lol the necro main is a better thief than thief players as usual lmao. I played thief 4 yrs and I know I'm definitely not great at it. If thief tries 1v1 a competant holo,soulbeast,warrior/spellbreaker list goes on it will need to disengage or die unless the thief player severely outplayed those classes. U can run behind a scrapper or fb unloading on them indefinitely and they just out heal u. I'm sry but these days if ur easlily winning 1v1 with thief than ur either playing noobs,ur a thief master or ur not being honest. I use reaper alot in wvw and most thiefs are my dinner except the few that can kite. Players that have mained the class for years didnt choose the boring role of decapper and limit themselves to +1 engagements due to it high proficiency in 1v1 lol they know most classes are to much a risk to try 1v1 due to most classes being in favor of winning the fight and if u do manage to win a 1v1 it most likely took too long which is funny thief being a glassy burst spec. It's always great to hear though people that dont play thief often are great at 1v1 with them as always seems the case on the forums lmao

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@"EremiteAngel.9765" I almost want to ask you to include a few more assumptions in your post which would clarify some things for people, but I'm not sure there's a good way to include these without being too wordy:

  1. Victory in a 1v1 means the build is capable of causing the opponent to retreat indefinitely (like retreat to a safe zone, tower, etc. and out of combat), or outright killing them. This means a thief kiting you and maintaining a 1200 distance while coming back in every 10s or so for a burst has not yet lost, nor are they losing.
  2. Going out of combat by itself does not equate to a loss, although if a player is repeatedly doing this, they can't get a kill or drive off the other roamer so it's most likely a loss.
  3. Ability to contest a point doesn't really mean all that much in a spontaneous 1v1. Roamers will generally ignore contestable points and instead focus on going for the kill which is why mobility plays such a huge factor.
  4. The power of a roaming class actually should be determined by those god-tier players of that class. This is because those players represent the highest potential of that class, and classes should be judged by what they're capable of, not by how hard it is to reach that skill level.

All of these are opinion but I'd be happy to argue any "criteria" here from a practical standpoint.

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@Arcaedus.7290 said:@"EremiteAngel.9765" I almost want to ask you to include a few more assumptions in your post which would clarify some things for people, but I'm not sure there's a good way to include these without being too wordy:

  1. Victory in a 1v1 means the build is capable of causing the opponent to retreat indefinitely (like retreat to a safe zone, tower, etc. and out of combat), or outright killing them. This means a thief kiting you and maintaining a 1200 distance while coming back in every 10s or so for a burst has not yet lost, nor are they losing.
  2. Going out of combat by itself does not equate to a loss, although if a player is repeatedly doing this, they can't get a kill or drive off the other roamer so it's most likely a loss.
  3. Ability to contest a point doesn't really mean all that much in a spontaneous 1v1. Roamers will generally ignore contestable points and instead focus on going for the kill which is why mobility plays such a huge factor.
  4. The power of a roaming class actually should be determined by those god-tier players of that class. This is because those players represent the highest potential of that class, and classes should be judged by what they're capable of, not by how hard it is to reach that skill level.

All of these are opinion but I'd be happy to argue any "criteria" here from a practical standpoint.

All very good assumptions that I would agree with.Am curious about how you ranked them if you would share =)

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@Arcaedus.7290 said:@"EremiteAngel.9765" I almost want to ask you to include a few more assumptions in your post which would clarify some things for people, but I'm not sure there's a good way to include these without being too wordy:

  1. Victory in a 1v1 means the build is capable of causing the opponent to retreat indefinitely (like retreat to a safe zone, tower, etc. and out of combat), or outright killing them. This means a thief kiting you and maintaining a 1200 distance while coming back in every 10s or so for a burst has not yet lost, nor are they losing.
  2. Going out of combat by itself does not equate to a loss, although if a player is repeatedly doing this, they can't get a kill or drive off the other roamer so it's most likely a loss.
  3. Ability to contest a point doesn't really mean all that much in a spontaneous 1v1. Roamers will generally ignore contestable points and instead focus on going for the kill which is why mobility plays such a huge factor.
  4. The power of a roaming class actually should be determined by those god-tier players of that class. This is because those players represent the highest potential of that class, and classes should be judged by what they're capable of, not by how hard it is to reach that skill level.

All of these are opinion but I'd be happy to argue any "criteria" here from a practical standpoint.

Thief sb kite is 900 range not 1200 unless DE of course which is probably what u mean.

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Alright everyone.Thank you for the votes.

We have the results at 100+ votes:2.9Mesmer3.4Engineer3.4Warrior3.4Ranger5.1Revenant5.4Thief6.7Elementalist7.0Guardian7.7Necromancer

Birth of the Fantastic Four:

At the start of the year, there was Batman (Mesmer) and Robin (Ranger) forming the pair of superheroes that no one could touch.And so it was that they sat firmly in the number 1 and 2 spots, far ahead of everyone else.

However, with each cosmic cataclysm that happened since then, Mesmer and Ranger has seen their superpowers diminished.Mesmer lost a little of their burgeoning mobility options (jaunt) and had their condi builds shaved.Ranger lost a large part of their range advantage when giant furry cats appeared on the lands.Both are still extremely versatile though with a multitude of effective builds and have rightfully kept their places in the top half of the poll.

With the slight waning of their powers, two other classes have rose to prominence to stand shoulder to shoulder with them.Under the blessings of the Healing goddess, Engineer has seen a sharp rise in its sustainability, earning it a spot among the upper echelons.The award for best improved class though, goes to the Warrior, having awakened Hulk-like powers.

And so the Fantastic Four is born.

After the Fantastic Four comes the Revenant who has remained largely stable throughout the patches, maintaining its 5+ rating and its mid-position spot.Perhaps there are some who would argue that they deserve a higher rating because their main weakness, condition builds, have largely been weakened.With their natural predators gone, who can stand in the way of a Revenant?

Thieves on the other hand have plummeted badly, falling from a rating of 4.2 to 5.4.Once the Superman of the lands, they have been handed a Kryptonite that have largely sealed their once superhuman powers.Things are not helped by the rise of more thief-killing classes.Do not think little of them though, for their mobility and versatility in a 1 on 1 fight is still a cut above the rest.

Elementalist, Guardian and Necro remain rock bottom.Cast in stone.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Duckota.4769 said:Thief is the worst duelist in the game so I think the original poll says more about the average skill levels of players being polled and not the OPness of said classes.

I love hearing blatantly false statements like this.

I love people who dont understand balance trying to call me out. They're literally nothing but decappers and +1s at best in pvp and that extends to wvw. If you get beaten by a thief 1v1 you got extremely outplayed.

I'm not a good thief, far from it and I mostly like to use every single profession but, in a sudden fight in WvW I have no issue killing easily single foes. The stealth, mobility and, yes, burst help a lot due to the fact that you got the surprise effect, the time to plan your fight, weight your foe, the ability to close gap quickly, a decent burst and, if things goes south, you got the tools to retreat quickly.

That said, saying that I outplay someone by doing this much would be extremly arrogant, it's more capitalizing on the strenght of the profession than outplaying anyone.

Lol the necro main is a better thief than thief players as usual lmao. I played thief 4 yrs and I know I'm definitely not great at it. If thief tries 1v1 a competant holo,soulbeast,warrior/spellbreaker list goes on it will need to disengage or die unless the thief player severely outplayed those classes. U can run behind a scrapper or fb unloading on them indefinitely and they just out heal u. I'm sry but these days if ur easlily winning 1v1 with thief than ur either playing noobs,ur a thief master or ur not being honest. I use reaper alot in wvw and most thiefs are my dinner except the few that can kite. Players that have mained the class for years didnt choose the boring role of decapper and limit themselves to +1 engagements due to it high proficiency in 1v1 lol they know most classes are to much a risk to try 1v1 due to most classes being in favor of winning the fight and if u do manage to win a 1v1 it most likely took too long which is funny thief being a glassy burst spec. It's always great to hear though people that dont play thief often are great at 1v1 with them as always seems the case on the forums lmao

Who said that I was a necro main? I said it, I use all professions, in fact I use 1 profession 1 day and the next day it will be another in an eternal cycle. There sure are professions that concern me more than other but if I had to choose 1 profession that I enjoy playing more than another it would be mesmer and not necromancer. And because I tend to enjoy mesmer gameplay more than the other professions, I don't comment on mesmers buff/nerf unless it truly break the gameplay of the profession (when I say mesmer, it's core mesmer or at most chrono, just for the 25% movement speed).

Let's be honest, WvW is filled with average players and the "competant" players that you point out are rare if not inexistant most of the time. Thief isn't nearly as bad as you picture it and it can definitely hold it's own against those specialization you fear.

NB.: Oh and stop trying to make this a PvP issue, this is a WvW thread where, again, the thief stealth is an incredibly useful tool for "sudden 1v1". Unless you are taken by surprise and 1 shoted in WvW, as a thief you can basically reset the fight whenever you want. And it's not even close to be difficult to do.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Duckota.4769 said:Thief is the worst duelist in the game so I think the original poll says more about the average skill levels of players being polled and not the OPness of said classes.

I love hearing blatantly false statements like this.

I love people who dont understand balance trying to call me out. They're literally nothing but decappers and +1s at best in pvp and that extends to wvw. If you get beaten by a thief 1v1 you got extremely outplayed.

I'm not a good thief, far from it and I mostly like to use every single profession but, in a sudden fight in WvW I have no issue killing easily single foes. The stealth, mobility and, yes, burst help a lot due to the fact that you got the surprise effect, the time to plan your fight, weight your foe, the ability to close gap quickly, a decent burst and, if things goes south, you got the tools to retreat quickly.

That said, saying that I outplay someone by doing this much would be extremly arrogant, it's more capitalizing on the strenght of the profession than outplaying anyone.

Lol the necro main is a better thief than thief players as usual lmao. I played thief 4 yrs and I know I'm definitely not great at it. If thief tries 1v1 a competant holo,soulbeast,warrior/spellbreaker list goes on it will need to disengage or die unless the thief player severely outplayed those classes. U can run behind a scrapper or fb unloading on them indefinitely and they just out heal u. I'm sry but these days if ur easlily winning 1v1 with thief than ur either playing noobs,ur a thief master or ur not being honest. I use reaper alot in wvw and most thiefs are my dinner except the few that can kite. Players that have mained the class for years didnt choose the boring role of decapper and limit themselves to +1 engagements due to it high proficiency in 1v1 lol they know most classes are to much a risk to try 1v1 due to most classes being in favor of winning the fight and if u do manage to win a 1v1 it most likely took too long which is funny thief being a glassy burst spec. It's always great to hear though people that dont play thief often are great at 1v1 with them as always seems the case on the forums lmao

Who said that I was a necro main? I said it, I use all professions, in fact I use 1 profession 1 day and the next day it will be another in an eternal cycle. There sure are professions that concern me more than other but if I had to choose 1 profession that I enjoy playing more than another it would be mesmer and not necromancer. And because I tend to enjoy mesmer gameplay more than the other professions, I don't comment on mesmers buff/nerf unless it truly break the gameplay of the profession (when I say mesmer, it's core mesmer or at most chrono, just for the 25% movement speed).

Let's be honest, WvW is filled with average players and the "competant" players that you point out are rare if not inexistant most of the time. Thief isn't nearly as bad as you picture it and it can definitely hold it's own against those specialization you fear.

NB.: Oh and stop trying to make this a PvP issue, this is a WvW thread where, again, the thief stealth is an incredibly useful tool for "sudden 1v1". Unless you are taken by surprise and 1 shoted in WvW, as a thief you can basically reset the fight whenever you want. And it's not even close to be difficult to do.

Lol sure.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 I was actually thinking more of shadow step and steal, both 1200 range instantaneous and both make you respect the thief's ability to control spacing.... although steal kinda falls out of the discussion here ever since it got disintegrated from DD...

@EremiteAngel.9765 Sure! I haven't done a lot of roaming over the past 2 months due to work, but I ranked them:

Engineer (Holosmith)MesmerWarriorRanger (Soulbeast)ThiefRevenantGuardian (DH)ElementalistNecromancer

This is strictly spontaneous 1v1s as you said, not overall roaming capabilities. A lot of these are really close, and there isn't a very big difference between places 3 and 8 in my opinion (given they're both running some variant of a meta build and not trying to hard-counter the other), so my perception is based on the absolute best players of each of these that I have come across.

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@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:If thief tries 1v1 a competant holo,soulbeast,warrior/spellbreaker list goes on it will need to disengage or die unless the thief player severely outplayed those classes.

There you have it, you can disengage as a thief almost any class, so you always have the Option to make it a draw while the other class only has Options "win or lose" if it is not tanky enough. That is a Point making thief stronger because you can avoid fights with equal or better skilled Players. You just Need enough skill to make that pool of "equal or better" Players low enough.

I use reaper alot in wvw and most thiefs are my dinner except the few that can kite.

Kiting should be a Basic ability and not something that only a few can manage. If you Play a build that relys solely on Close range and lose with it while you could just kite then it is IMO simply your own fault of failing and not the class's fault.

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@Prinzsecond.4863 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:If thief tries 1v1 a competant holo,soulbeast,warrior/spellbreaker list goes on it will need to disengage or die unless the thief player severely outplayed those classes.

There you have it, you can disengage as a thief almost any class, so you always have the Option to make it a draw while the other class only has Options "win or lose" if it is not tanky enough. That is a Point making thief stronger because you can avoid fights with equal or better skilled Players. You just Need enough skill to make that pool of "equal or better" Players low enough.

I use reaper alot in wvw and most thiefs are my dinner except the few that can kite.

Kiting should be a Basic ability and not something that only a few can manage. If you Play a build that relys solely on Close range and lose with it while you could just kite then it is IMO simply your own fault of failing and not the class's fault.

Holo and soul beast are not far behind thief interns disengage and let's not forget 1800 range longbow.

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@Arcaedus.7290 said:@Psycoprophet.8107 I was actually thinking more of shadow step and steal, both 1200 range instantaneous and both make you respect the thief's ability to control spacing.... although steal kinda falls out of the discussion here ever since it got disintegrated from DD...

@EremiteAngel.9765 Sure! I haven't done a lot of roaming over the past 2 months due to work, but I ranked them:

Engineer (Holosmith)MesmerWarriorRanger (Soulbeast)ThiefRevenantGuardian (DH)ElementalistNecromancer

This is strictly spontaneous 1v1s as you said, not overall roaming capabilities. A lot of these are really close, and there isn't a very big difference between places 3 and 8 in my opinion (given they're both running some variant of a meta build and not trying to hard-counter the other), so my perception is based on the absolute best players of each of these that I have come across.

This seems spot on.

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I lol that Necro is still bottom tier. Though I certainly agree that objectively it's a bad roamer, I don't think it's a bad 1v1'er. As long as you're not running full glass, a decent Necro is a tough fight for a lot of builds/professions. The only things that really shut it down are good Thieves, Rangers and Mesmers. The three strongest roamers. Everything else will need to be extremely cautious against a decent Necro even if it's an easy class easy to +1.

For a very long time I had given up roaming with Necro. Some time a few months back (maybe 3 - 5?), I started up again and have been doing so quite frequently since. During that time, I've had very few fights that left me feeling like Necro is weak and I had outplayed someone. Unlike some time ago when most encounters felt like I was fighting an uphill battle, I now most often feel on even ground.

Sometimes I think Necro is underestimated because decent/good Necros seem to be less common than good insert profession here. And I don't say this because it's my main. It just seems to be a class that most people never take the time to practice with. It lacks the tools to make a good roamer, but if the player has good awareness you can avoid a lot of situations that are hard to recover from. Especially with mounts.

I suppose the bottom of the list is where it belongs but, I often feel it's stronger than people give it credit for. When you meet a good one you'll see what I mean. I can only think of a handful that I'd consider "good" and each of those players are pretty scary no matter how slow Necro is by design.

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@Prinzsecond.4863 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:If thief tries 1v1 a competant holo,soulbeast,warrior/spellbreaker list goes on it will need to disengage or die unless the thief player severely outplayed those classes.

There you have it, you can disengage as a thief almost any class, so you always have the Option to make it a draw while the other class only has Options "win or lose" if it is not tanky enough. That is a Point making thief stronger because you can avoid fights with equal or better skilled Players. You just Need enough skill to make that pool of "equal or better" Players low enough.

I use reaper alot in wvw and most thiefs are my dinner except the few that can kite.

Kiting should be a Basic ability and not something that only a few can manage. If you Play a build that relys solely on Close range and lose with it while you could just kite then it is IMO simply your own fault of failing and not the class's fault.

Thief not being able win most 1v1 because it can disengage is a rediculous reason. Most classes have ways to disengage these days, maybe not quite as well as thief but great non the less. I can distance myself very far from a opponent on warrior using gs,stampede ranger with gs,bird mesmer dont have to explain,holo or scourge have invisibility and leaps list goes on. Theirs a good reason all rogue archetypes in all games have mobility,low hp/sustain and hit hard. No class should be at a disadvantage vs all or most classes in a fight just because it has mobility,especially when its mobility advantage has been severely lessened by other classes being given increased mobility over last few years. Anyone that believes thief should not be able to 1v1 cuz its mobility is just biased towards the class. So all rangers melee should be garbage cuz its range damage potential? Or warrior sustain taken away cuz it's got good mobility and melee dps? Fb stripped of any dps cuz its self and party sustain potential?holo has everything so what should it lose? People are so biased towards the claseed they play and the ones they dont like fighting lol gets embarressing reading people's reasoning for such lmao

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Necro atleast reaper for me is one of the better roamers in wvw due to warclaw being added. Unless a sic em or DE catch me unaware the fights are usually in my favor. Shroud burst is a real thing and eats people who dont know how to kite fast. Using spec walk off a wall to shroud burst the opposing zerg to tele back on wall is a blast as well. Preemptive wurm and spec walk can make for great juking.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Necro atleast reaper for me is one of the better roamers in wvw due to warclaw being added. Unless a sic em or DE catch me unaware the fights are usually in my favor. Shroud burst is a real thing and eats people who dont know how to kite fast. Using spec walk off a wall to shroud burst the opposing zerg to tele back on wall is a blast as well. Preemptive wurm and spec walk can make for great juking.

the important point is 'people who dont know'. in roaming you will mostly fight those 'people who dont know' and in larger quantities than 1 wich means other professions then the ones in the list can be better solo roamers for general use. but if i understand correctly the rating here is just about isolated 1 vs 1 among good players on their usual roaming builds.

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@Arcaedus.7290 said:@Psycoprophet.8107 I was actually thinking more of shadow step and steal, both 1200 range instantaneous and both make you respect the thief's ability to control spacing.... although steal kinda falls out of the discussion here ever since it got disintegrated from DD...

@EremiteAngel.9765 Sure! I haven't done a lot of roaming over the past 2 months due to work, but I ranked them:

Engineer (Holosmith)MesmerWarriorRanger (Soulbeast)ThiefRevenantGuardian (DH)ElementalistNecromancer

This is strictly spontaneous 1v1s as you said, not overall roaming capabilities. A lot of these are really close, and there isn't a very big difference between places 3 and 8 in my opinion (given they're both running some variant of a meta build and not trying to hard-counter the other), so my perception is based on the absolute best players of each of these that I have come across.

Very nice list.I would largely agree with your ranking.Except I'm curious about Ranger's fall in placing.As far as I know, Ranger has not really taken any hits throughout the balance patches.They are still going at full strength, from Sic-Em LB/GS to Boonbeasts.What has changed?Are the other classes above them like Holo and Warrior just a lot stronger now?

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@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

Very nice list.I would largely agree with your ranking.Except I'm curious about Ranger's fall in placing.As far as I know, Ranger has not really taken any hits throughout the balance patches.They are still going at full strength, from Sic-Em LB/GS to Boonbeasts.What has changed?Are the other classes above them like Holo and Warrior just a lot stronger now?

I actually kinda struggled to place ranger and warrior a bit when thinking about it. On one hand, you have somewhat famous ranger players like Kiritsugu who despite his edited uploads is actually extremely skilled at ranger, and by his account alone, I'd place ranger at #2, mayyyybe even #1 but I have dueled countless no-name warriors (non-warrior mains) who give me and anyone else I watch duel them an incredibly tough time. I reckon if you get a very skilled one who has been playing warrior for years and knows all the classes and builds well, they'd be able to win almost any 1v1.

Also, I'll say for Sic-Em LB/GS soulbeasts, I can actually win the 1v1 about 95% of the time if they aren't cheesing me with a tower nearby. It's a high damage build but if you know what to do, you drop them. The duelist variant performs better in spontaneous 1v1s, but will lose over time to the more sustain/offence balanced builds (Reaper, DH, Spellbreaker, Mirage, Holosmith) from my experience. You then have straight up pvp-ported boon beast that will force you to retreat, but like scrapper, it can't really kill you if you run. I guess that counts as a loss but I have only ever fought against two of these in wvw since PoF launched.

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@Arcaedus.7290 said:@"EremiteAngel.9765" I almost want to ask you to include a few more assumptions in your post which would clarify some things for people, but I'm not sure there's a good way to include these without being too wordy:

  1. Victory in a 1v1 means the build is capable of causing the opponent to retreat indefinitely (like retreat to a safe zone, tower, etc. and out of combat), or outright killing them. This means a thief kiting you and maintaining a 1200 distance while coming back in every 10s or so for a burst has not yet lost, nor are they losing.
  2. Going out of combat by itself does not equate to a loss, although if a player is repeatedly doing this, they can't get a kill or drive off the other roamer so it's most likely a loss.
  3. Ability to contest a point doesn't really mean all that much in a spontaneous 1v1. Roamers will generally ignore contestable points and instead focus on going for the kill which is why mobility plays such a huge factor.
  4. The power of a roaming class actually should be determined by those god-tier players of that class. This is because those players represent the highest potential of that class, and classes should be judged by what they're capable of, not by how hard it is to reach that skill level.

All of these are opinion but I'd be happy to argue any "criteria" here from a practical standpoint.

I agree there needs to be some consensus on how to actually rank the classes. But if you take random fights in WvW and not white room scenarios with a specific location and rule set outcomes will differ a lot. E.g. what range does a fight start with? Is there cover? Water? NPCs? Height differences (ledges)? etc.

I guess this poll mostly captures a general feeling of what is hard to fight against.

Especially if you assume point 4. to be true with everyone being god level skilled the determining factor will always be a combination environment and the specific matchup. Every class will have a bad matchup and/or environment that doesn't favor it. You could then say class X has the most favorable matchups in most environments, therefore it's the strongest, but then people would adapt by playing more builds with favorable match ups against that class and it wouldn't be that strong in practice anymore. So as long as a build doesn't have any unfavorable match ups and every class has a build with at least a few favorable match ups (and isn't completely overshaded in every aspect by another one) every class has a place (even if it's just a niche) in roaming.

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