I see big "Sic 'Em!" problem

[sephiroth.4217]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@verskore.4312 said:

@"Ben K.6238" said:Sorry. Agreement ain't gonna happen.

It's blatantly OP.

blatantly OP? lol sorry but that agreement aint gonna happen either boi.Skill hasnt been changed for years but suddenly it's blatantly OP?

The skill was changed though...

It used to be pet specific but now its not, now it effects the Ranger too.

When was it changed?

Isnt that obvious by what I posted?

No it is not. Can you give me month and year?

When they introduced Soulbeast...Merging with the pet for the 40% damage boost didnt exist for the first 4 or so years of the game.

Soulbeast has been introduced late 2017.The 40% dmg boost was

introduced in 2013

, but before that it has dmg boost too, just it didn't say it is 40%2 years no complaints and suddenly some people just want random nerfs.

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:Since boonbeast variants nerfed with moa stance, rangers been trying out diff builds to be effective... And a few equip zerky jerky builds and embraced longbows in their weapon slots once again... Now ppl who were used to fighting meele setup boonbeast build started encountering sniper builds... Now all they remember when dying is longbow hits or maul hits... and Now they ask for nerfs...

When's the Last time Ranger buff listed in release notes? 5 or 6 months??? Idk

I don't remember any significant buffs to ranger after boonbeast moa stance got nerfed ... So it might be players' illusion :p ... Idk I might be wrong

I dont understand ur confusion. I believe he means from sic em creation up until soulbeast was added it only gave pet 40% damage boost and not ranger. Once soulbeast was added the player was than included in the damage multipliers when merged. Soulbeast is definitely way over tuned along with spellbreaker,fb, and holo. Where were all these ridiculous views on why a class isn't OP when thief and mirage xey's filled the forums lmao oh wait gues theres just more mains in the powercrept classes.

Its exactly what I meant, thank you.

[Evil.1580]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@verskore.4312 said:

@"Ben K.6238" said:Sorry. Agreement ain't gonna happen.

It's blatantly OP.

blatantly OP? lol sorry but that agreement aint gonna happen either boi.Skill hasnt been changed for years but suddenly it's blatantly OP?

The skill was changed though...

It used to be pet specific but now its not, now it effects the Ranger too.

When was it changed?

Isnt that obvious by what I posted?

No it is not. Can you give me month and year?

When they introduced Soulbeast...Merging with the pet for the 40% damage boost didnt exist for the first 4 or so years of the game.

Soulbeast has been introduced late 2017.The 40% dmg boost was

introduced in 2013

, but before that it has dmg boost too, just it didn't say it is 40%2 years no complaints and suddenly some people just want random nerfs.

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:Since boonbeast variants nerfed with moa stance, rangers been trying out diff builds to be effective... And a few equip zerky jerky builds and embraced longbows in their weapon slots once again... Now ppl who were used to fighting meele setup boonbeast build started encountering sniper builds... Now all they remember when dying is longbow hits or maul hits... and Now they ask for nerfs...

When's the Last time Ranger buff listed in release notes? 5 or 6 months??? Idk

I don't remember any significant buffs to ranger after boonbeast moa stance got nerfed ... So it might be players' illusion :p ... Idk I might be wrong

I dont understand ur confusion. I believe he means from sic em creation up until soulbeast was added it only gave pet 40% damage boost and not ranger. Once soulbeast was added the player was than included in the damage multipliers when merged. Soulbeast is definitely way over tuned along with spellbreaker,fb, and holo. Where were all these ridiculous views on why a class isn't OP when thief and mirage xey's filled the forums lmao oh wait gues theres just more mains in the powercrept classes.

I am not confused. Soulbeast is here since 2017, now is 2019. There are no posts from 2017 about Sic 'Em nerf even so the skill hasn't changed.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@verskore.4312 said:

@"Ben K.6238" said:Sorry. Agreement ain't gonna happen.

It's blatantly OP.

blatantly OP? lol sorry but that agreement aint gonna happen either boi.Skill hasnt been changed for years but suddenly it's blatantly OP?

The skill was changed though...

It used to be pet specific but now its not, now it effects the Ranger too.

When was it changed?

Isnt that obvious by what I posted?

No it is not. Can you give me month and year?

When they introduced Soulbeast...Merging with the pet for the 40% damage boost didnt exist for the first 4 or so years of the game.

Soulbeast has been introduced late 2017.The 40% dmg boost was

introduced in 2013

, but before that it has dmg boost too, just it didn't say it is 40%2 years no complaints and suddenly some people just want random nerfs.

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:Since boonbeast variants nerfed with moa stance, rangers been trying out diff builds to be effective... And a few equip zerky jerky builds and embraced longbows in their weapon slots once again... Now ppl who were used to fighting meele setup boonbeast build started encountering sniper builds... Now all they remember when dying is longbow hits or maul hits... and Now they ask for nerfs...

When's the Last time Ranger buff listed in release notes? 5 or 6 months??? Idk

I don't remember any significant buffs to ranger after boonbeast moa stance got nerfed ... So it might be players' illusion :p ... Idk I might be wrong

I dont understand ur confusion. I believe he means from sic em creation up until soulbeast was added it only gave pet 40% damage boost and not ranger. Once soulbeast was added the player was than included in the damage multipliers when merged. Soulbeast is definitely way over tuned along with spellbreaker,fb, and holo. Where were all these ridiculous views on why a class isn't OP when thief and mirage xey's filled the forums lmao oh wait gues theres just more mains in the powercrept classes.

I am not confused. Soulbeast is here since 2017, now is 2019. There are no posts from 2017 about Sic 'Em nerf.

U can thank the now gutted theif and mirage specs for taking all the attention off of soulbeast and other powercrept classes lmao the bias towards those two classes had everyone blind to anything else. Also when soulbeast first released people were disappointed at first due to its flavor not being as great as others but as soon as more and more players started to play it they realized how effective it can be. U cannot argue the powercrept level of suatain-damage sb does as well as literally one skill at 1500+ range one shotting all squishy classes even in marauder gear while being unblockable. I mean u can try but u all just sound like ranger mains who dont want ur OP spec nerfed in line,oh wait.

[Vithzerai.3291]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@verskore.4312 said:

@"Ben K.6238" said:Sorry. Agreement ain't gonna happen.

It's blatantly OP.

blatantly OP? lol sorry but that agreement aint gonna happen either boi.Skill hasnt been changed for years but suddenly it's blatantly OP?

The skill was changed though...

It used to be pet specific but now its not, now it effects the Ranger too.

When was it changed?

Isnt that obvious by what I posted?

No it is not. Can you give me month and year?

When they introduced Soulbeast...Merging with the pet for the 40% damage boost didnt exist for the first 4 or so years of the game.

Soulbeast has been introduced late 2017.The 40% dmg boost was

introduced in 2013

, but before that it has dmg boost too, just it didn't say it is 40%2 years no complaints and suddenly some people just want random nerfs.

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:Since boonbeast variants nerfed with moa stance, rangers been trying out diff builds to be effective... And a few equip zerky jerky builds and embraced longbows in their weapon slots once again... Now ppl who were used to fighting meele setup boonbeast build started encountering sniper builds... Now all they remember when dying is longbow hits or maul hits... and Now they ask for nerfs...

When's the Last time Ranger buff listed in release notes? 5 or 6 months??? Idk

I don't remember any significant buffs to ranger after boonbeast moa stance got nerfed ... So it might be players' illusion :p ... Idk I might be wrong

I dont understand ur confusion. I believe he means from sic em creation up until soulbeast was added it only gave pet 40% damage boost and not ranger. Once soulbeast was added the player was than included in the damage multipliers when merged. Soulbeast is definitely way over tuned along with spellbreaker,fb, and holo. Where were all these ridiculous views on why a class isn't OP when thief and mirage xey's filled the forums lmao oh wait gues theres just more mains in the powercrept classes.

I am not confused. Soulbeast is here since 2017, now is 2019. There are no posts from 2017 about Sic 'Em nerf even so the skill hasn't changed.

I think the point is while the skill itself hasn't changed, the utility the skill provides has changed, specifically with regards to Soulbeast. Imagine if there was a new Mesmer specialization that allowed Mesmer to receive -every single- buff their illusions receive. While some of the old traits may not have been changed, they'd be more powerful for sure.

Edit: Though I'm not supporting the idea Sic 'Em is overpowered, to be clear.

[Evil.1580]

Soulbeast can't offer competetive 1vs1 or XvsX gameplay and noone prefer it in higher ranks.How do you think nerfing Sic 'Em will help SB to get in competitive matches? I mean, isn't this the goal, all professions to offer competitive gameplay? By nerfing it you will do quite the opposite.Someone said that there are stronger professions for higher PvP matches and they are right but you are saying that everyone were blind 2 years because there were stronger skills in the game. And now you are saying that Sic 'Em is one of the strongest skills out there and we should concentrate on nerfing it, even so we all agree that this skill can't find a place in good competitive PvP matches (I mean we don't have to agree, because this is not an opinion but fact which you can see in the top ranks, by yourself).Sic 'Em needs small buff in order to bring SB in good competitive matches.

[Vithzerai.3291]

Seems like the biggest counter-argument to Soulbeast rarely being in the top tier of play and therefore doesn't need a nerf is we shouldn't balance around the top 10% (Or w/e percentage) of the population. Thing is, I'd argue that for a competitive game mode surely you -should- balance around the top tier of play. You can argue all day long whether GW2 being competitive is a joke of an idea, if you're at least attempting to make a game competitive you should balance a game around the most competitive part of the environment, right? So therefore Soulbeast, at least I'd argue, really doesn't need a nerf.

[Ben K.6238]

You don't fix an uncompetitive class by taking the one thing that contributes most to power creep on that class and making it even more overpowered. You fix it by addressing the reasons why it doesn't use anything else.

Back in the day, the most effective ranger builds didn't use longbow at all.

[Vithzerai.3291]

@"Ben K.6238" said:You don't fix an uncompetitive class by taking the one thing that contributes most to power creep on that class and making it even more overpowered. You fix it by addressing the reasons why it doesn't use anything else.

Back in the day, the most effective ranger builds didn't use longbow at all.

That's because there was an abundance of reflect/projectile destruction so it was next to pointless. However now people want Unstoppable union nerfed aswell, so. vOv I'unno, y'know what, I hope it gets nerfed. If I stand corrected then that's actually a good thing 'cause it means it'll be fine, but what I suspect will happen is Soulbeast will be next to unplayable if other professions don't get shifted aswell, and then hopefully people will be like, "Oh snap, maybe it didn't need a nerf." Or we'll find out who some of the provocateurs in this community are.

[Ben K.6238]

@Vithzerai.3291 said:

@"Ben K.6238" said:You don't fix an uncompetitive class by taking the one thing that contributes most to power creep on that class and making it even more overpowered. You fix it by addressing the reasons why it doesn't use anything else.

Back in the day, the most effective ranger builds didn't use longbow at all.

That's because there was an abundance of reflect/projectile destruction so it was next to pointless. However now people want Unstoppable union nerfed aswell, so. vOv I'unno, y'know what, I hope it gets nerfed. If I stand corrected then that's actually a good thing 'cause it means it'll be fine, but what I suspect will happen is Soulbeast will be next to unplayable if other professions don't get shifted aswell, and then hopefully people will be like, "Oh snap, maybe it didn't need a nerf." Or we'll find out who the provocateurs in this community are.

There were hardly any reflects in the first couple years before HoT, and most people generally wouldn't slot them. Off the top of my head, there was Feedback on the mesmer, that reflective wall utility on Guardian (I never used that at all, so I can't even remember what it was called), and the magnetic shield on Engineer. Swirling Winds and a couple other skills did projectile destruction without the reflect, and then there were blocks and dodges that weren't exclusive to projectiles.

The main reason no-one used longbow at launch was because it had a really slow firing rate, and Rapid Fire just made it passable. When Rapid Fire turned into a machine gun is when longbow rangers (usually terrible ones) started appearing all over the place. Long before all the skills that were buffed like crazy to make pets slightly less awful - such as Sic 'Em - started applying to the player too.

[Vithzerai.3291]

@Ben K.6238 said:

@Vithzerai.3291 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:You don't fix an uncompetitive class by taking the one thing that contributes most to power creep on that class and making it even more overpowered. You fix it by addressing the reasons why it doesn't use anything else.

Back in the day, the most effective ranger builds didn't use longbow at all.

That's because there was an abundance of reflect/projectile destruction so it was next to pointless. However now people want Unstoppable union nerfed aswell, so. vOv I'unno, y'know what, I hope it gets nerfed. If I stand corrected then that's actually a good thing 'cause it means it'll be fine, but what I suspect will happen is Soulbeast will be next to unplayable if other professions don't get shifted aswell, and then hopefully people will be like, "Oh snap, maybe it didn't need a nerf." Or we'll find out who the provocateurs in this community are.

There were hardly any reflects in the first couple years before HoT, and most people generally wouldn't slot them. Off the top of my head, there was Feedback on the mesmer, that reflective wall utility on Guardian (I never used that at all, so I can't even remember what it was called), and the magnetic shield on Engineer. Swirling Winds and a couple other skills did projectile destruction without the reflect, and then there were blocks and dodges that weren't exclusive to projectiles.

The main reason no-one used longbow at launch was because it had a really slow firing rate, and Rapid Fire just made it passable. When Rapid Fire turned into a machine gun is when longbow rangers (usually terrible ones) started appearing all over the place. Long before all the skills that were buffed like crazy to make pets slightly less awful - such as Sic 'Em - started applying to the player too.

I can only speak from my experience during HoT, specifically S5/S6 was mainly where I was playing at Plat 3 (And that's genuinely not a brag, plat 3 isn't anything particularly special I don't feel, not in the slightest, there's a big difference between t3 players and t2/1 players. But I'm merely pointing out the fact that I was playing in the bracket of relatively meta-influenced team compositions.)

DH Wall and their shield 5, Scrapper dome, Tempest Focus AoE Projectile destruction and Warrior shield. Druid staff 5 converting projectiles into healing bolts. Alot of these barring Warrior were AoE. Oh, also Reaper Shroud 2. These were the main reasons during HoT no one used longbow. And when they did, that was due to a bug caused by signet of the wild I believe that made their attacks unblockable, which meant some people started running longbow on Druid. Again, can't account for anything pre-HoT really.

Now PoF is a completely different kettle of fish, granted, but I'm seeing similarities in viability here with the longbow. Could well be that's just me lacking foresight. I guess we'll see.

[Ben K.6238]

I suspect it was always more of a thing in more casual PvP and in WvW, where there was actually some point to taking a spec that could down an unsuspecting opponent from 1500 range. In ranked PvP, "unsuspecting" is not all that likely.

[Vithzerai.3291]

@"Ben K.6238" said:I suspect it was always more of a thing in more casual PvP and in WvW, where there was actually some point to taking a spec that could down an unsuspecting opponent from 1500 range. In ranked PvP, "unsuspecting" is not all that likely.

For sure, completely agree with you, was never that keen on it myself to be fair. But I can't argue it had its uses, albeit niche. With Soulbeast I feel it's less niche and more part of what makes it viable. While it can completely burst down an unsuspecting player, and that may seem unfair, but that's true for alot of classes and combos if people don't fully pay attention, or sometimes you're just out of cooldowns and that's unfortunate. If they nerf sic 'em and Unstoppable Union they're gonna' have to give ranger a load more options in other areas. At least that's my take.

Edit: A nerf I could get more behind on a small level is maybe nerf the mobility of Soulbeast a lil'. Shorter range on the greatsword leap and the soulbeast ability dashes. Perhaps people will be less annoyed by the pewpewyness if he can't be around everywhere doing it, or follow up a rapid fire combo immediately by closing the gap in one skill.

[Ben K.6238]

I think that'd be a fair trade, honestly. There's more than a few other skills on ranger that could do with some retooling and likewise with the other weapons.

[Shao.7236]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Soulbeast can't offer competetive 1vs1 or XvsX gameplay and noone prefer it in higher ranks.How do you think nerfing Sic 'Em will help SB to get in competitive matches? I mean, isn't this the goal, all professions to offer competitive gameplay? By nerfing it you will do quite the opposite.Someone said that there are stronger professions for higher PvP matches and they are right but you are saying that everyone were blind 2 years because there were stronger skills in the game. And now you are saying that Sic 'Em is one of the strongest skills out there and we should concentrate on nerfing it, even so we all agree that this skill can't find a place in good competitive PvP matches (I mean we don't have to agree, because this is not an opinion but fact which you can see in the top ranks, by yourself).Sic 'Em needs small buff in order to bring SB in good competitive matches.

When I read comments like this last statement my faith in the community dies a little more lmao

I love such arguments. They are so productive :)

Well it's not like you're getting the point here either so that's just as worst for your case. Sic em existed before and only affected the pet, it says in the description itself. Pet merging allows this out of whack damage bonus to the ranger which most have paired with unblockables.

What's so hard to understand? They can keep the pet damage bonus if they want, the ranger however needs to get nerfed under the effects. 20% would still be plenty and still the most easily accessed damage modifier in the game.

Before they remove unstoppable union unblockable they should nerf the root cause of this broken damage.

[Vithzerai.3291]

@Ben K.6238 said:I think that'd be a fair trade, honestly. There's more than a few other skills on ranger that could do with some retooling and likewise with the other weapons.

^ and that's it right there I think. Retooling, 100% agree. Getting other aspects in line together with maybe reducing the current things that make it seem overpowered is the better way to do it. But the majority of people and threads I see aren't asking for reavulation of skills, just flat out make soulbeast less powerful. Which obviously isn't the way to go.

[Evil.1580]

@Shao.7236 said:Sic em existed before and only affected the pet, it says in the description itself. Pet merging allows this out of whack damage bonus to the ranger which most have paired with unblockables.

What's so hard to understand?

Soulbeast is here since 2017, now is 2019. Why now?Soulbeast cant offer competitive PvP gameplay as it is too weak and easy to deal with, why nerf?

[kin korn karn.9023]

@Shao.7236 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Soulbeast can't offer competetive 1vs1 or XvsX gameplay and noone prefer it in higher ranks.How do you think nerfing Sic 'Em will help SB to get in competitive matches? I mean, isn't this the goal, all professions to offer competitive gameplay? By nerfing it you will do quite the opposite.Someone said that there are stronger professions for higher PvP matches and they are right but you are saying that everyone were blind 2 years because there were stronger skills in the game. And now you are saying that Sic 'Em is one of the strongest skills out there and we should concentrate on nerfing it, even so we all agree that this skill can't find a place in good competitive PvP matches (I mean we don't have to agree, because this is not an opinion but fact which you can see in the top ranks, by yourself).Sic 'Em needs small buff in order to bring SB in good competitive matches.

When I read comments like this last statement my faith in the community dies a little more lmao

I love such arguments. They are so productive :)

Well it's not like you're getting the point here either so that's just as worst for your case. Sic em existed before and only affected the pet, it says in the description itself. Pet merging allows this out of whack damage bonus to the ranger which most have paired with unblockables.

What's so hard to understand? They can keep the pet damage bonus if they want, the ranger however needs to get nerfed under the effects. 20% would still be plenty and still the most easily accessed damage modifier in the game.

Before they remove unstoppable union unblockable they should nerf the root cause of this broken damage.

I think he's not talking so much about pre-PoF, but more about how Sic Em has worked like this for nearly two years, so what's changed to make it suddenly relevant? The answer being that while it was never a great build to begin with (and still isn't), it has now become the most viable and most played ranger build since Boon Beast was gutted.

[Vithzerai.3291]

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Soulbeast can't offer competetive 1vs1 or XvsX gameplay and noone prefer it in higher ranks.How do you think nerfing Sic 'Em will help SB to get in competitive matches? I mean, isn't this the goal, all professions to offer competitive gameplay? By nerfing it you will do quite the opposite.Someone said that there are stronger professions for higher PvP matches and they are right but you are saying that everyone were blind 2 years because there were stronger skills in the game. And now you are saying that Sic 'Em is one of the strongest skills out there and we should concentrate on nerfing it, even so we all agree that this skill can't find a place in good competitive PvP matches (I mean we don't have to agree, because this is not an opinion but fact which you can see in the top ranks, by yourself).Sic 'Em needs small buff in order to bring SB in good competitive matches.

When I read comments like this last statement my faith in the community dies a little more lmao

I love such arguments. They are so productive :)

Well it's not like you're getting the point here either so that's just as worst for your case. Sic em existed before and only affected the pet, it says in the description itself. Pet merging allows this out of whack damage bonus to the ranger which most have paired with unblockables.

What's so hard to understand? They can keep the pet damage bonus if they want, the ranger however needs to get nerfed under the effects. 20% would still be plenty and still the most easily accessed damage modifier in the game.

Before they remove unstoppable union unblockable they should nerf the root cause of this broken damage.

I think he's not talking so much about pre-PoF, but more about how Sic Em has worked like this for nearly two years, so what's changed to make it suddenly relevant? The answer being that while it was never a great build to begin with (and still isn't), it has now become the most viable and most played ranger build since Boon Beast was gutted.

To play devil's advocate, seems like what people are saying in response to this is there were other, more broken professions and specs that people were far more invested in getting nerfed that they didn't even consider Soulbeast needing the nerf in light of all the other 'broken' professions. While I don't agree, you can at least understand the point they're making from their perspective. They were gonna' complain about Soulbeast from the get-go, there were just more pressing things to complain about.

[Shao.7236]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@"Shao.7236" said:Sic em existed before and only affected the pet, it says in the description itself. Pet merging allows this out of whack damage bonus to the ranger which most have paired with unblockables.

What's so hard to understand?

Soulbeast is here since 2017, now is 2019. Why now?Soulbeast cant offer competitive PvP gameplay as it is too weak and easy to deal with, why nerf?

People have complained about the outcome before, it wasn't as rampant like the sustainbreaker because Anet thought it was a good idea to give a profession the ability to daze evade every 6 seconds with burst damage or ambush to infinity and beyond mirage condi evade spam, they had already reworked the mesmer to be easier to play by making phantasms leave clones behind, a really bad decision on their part because instead of reverting their lower skill ceiling changes, they decided that damage needed to be worst. Backward mentality when Mirage ambushes with clones could have been more thoughtful to use.

Soulbeast has the most potent damage to gank any professions in a matter of seconds if not forseen, even more than pre-pof DE, most of the time "good" soulbeasts will be in stealth prepared before you know while you're having a good 1v1 with no chance of you surviving unless you have an edgy invulnerability that you haven't used yet.

Cheesy designs can go unnoticed for a while, or overtaken by bigger problems.

[kin korn karn.9023]

@Vithzerai.3291 said:

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Soulbeast can't offer competetive 1vs1 or XvsX gameplay and noone prefer it in higher ranks.How do you think nerfing Sic 'Em will help SB to get in competitive matches? I mean, isn't this the goal, all professions to offer competitive gameplay? By nerfing it you will do quite the opposite.Someone said that there are stronger professions for higher PvP matches and they are right but you are saying that everyone were blind 2 years because there were stronger skills in the game. And now you are saying that Sic 'Em is one of the strongest skills out there and we should concentrate on nerfing it, even so we all agree that this skill can't find a place in good competitive PvP matches (I mean we don't have to agree, because this is not an opinion but fact which you can see in the top ranks, by yourself).Sic 'Em needs small buff in order to bring SB in good competitive matches.

When I read comments like this last statement my faith in the community dies a little more lmao

I love such arguments. They are so productive :)

Well it's not like you're getting the point here either so that's just as worst for your case. Sic em existed before and only affected the pet, it says in the description itself. Pet merging allows this out of whack damage bonus to the ranger which most have paired with unblockables.

What's so hard to understand? They can keep the pet damage bonus if they want, the ranger however needs to get nerfed under the effects. 20% would still be plenty and still the most easily accessed damage modifier in the game.

Before they remove unstoppable union unblockable they should nerf the root cause of this broken damage.

I think he's not talking so much about pre-PoF, but more about how Sic Em has worked like this for nearly two years, so what's changed to make it suddenly relevant? The answer being that while it was never a great build to begin with (and still isn't), it has now become the most viable and most played ranger build since Boon Beast was gutted.

To play devil's advocate, seems like what people are saying in response to this is there were other, more broken professions and specs that people were far more invested in getting nerfed that they didn't even consider Soulbeast needing the nerf in light of all the other 'broken' professions. While I don't agree, you can at least understand the point they're making from their perspective. They were gonna' complain about Soulbeast from the get-go, there were just more pressing things to complain about.

I get that argument and think there's some truth to it. But people complained about Soulbeast before, it was just a different build, and one that was (probably) actually overperforming. LB/GS Soulbeast still isn't overperforming, and there are at least four other builds I'd say need a nerf well before Soulbeast needs another.

[Evil.1580]

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@Vithzerai.3291 said:

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Soulbeast can't offer competetive 1vs1 or XvsX gameplay and noone prefer it in higher ranks.How do you think nerfing Sic 'Em will help SB to get in competitive matches? I mean, isn't this the goal, all professions to offer competitive gameplay? By nerfing it you will do quite the opposite.Someone said that there are stronger professions for higher PvP matches and they are right but you are saying that everyone were blind 2 years because there were stronger skills in the game. And now you are saying that Sic 'Em is one of the strongest skills out there and we should concentrate on nerfing it, even so we all agree that this skill can't find a place in good competitive PvP matches (I mean we don't have to agree, because this is not an opinion but fact which you can see in the top ranks, by yourself).Sic 'Em needs small buff in order to bring SB in good competitive matches.

When I read comments like this last statement my faith in the community dies a little more lmao

I love such arguments. They are so productive :)

Well it's not like you're getting the point here either so that's just as worst for your case. Sic em existed before and only affected the pet, it says in the description itself. Pet merging allows this out of whack damage bonus to the ranger which most have paired with unblockables.

What's so hard to understand? They can keep the pet damage bonus if they want, the ranger however needs to get nerfed under the effects. 20% would still be plenty and still the most easily accessed damage modifier in the game.

Before they remove unstoppable union unblockable they should nerf the root cause of this broken damage.

I think he's not talking so much about pre-PoF, but more about how Sic Em has worked like this for nearly two years, so what's changed to make it suddenly relevant? The answer being that while it was never a great build to begin with (and still isn't), it has now become the most viable and most played ranger build since Boon Beast was gutted.

To play devil's advocate, seems like what people are saying in response to this is there were other, more broken professions and specs that people were far more invested in getting nerfed that they didn't even consider Soulbeast needing the nerf in light of all the other 'broken' professions. While I don't agree, you can at least understand the point they're making from their perspective. They were gonna' complain about Soulbeast from the get-go, there were just more pressing things to complain about.

I get that argument and think there's some truth to it. But people complained about Soulbeast before, it was just a different build, and one that was (probably)

actually

overperforming. LB/GS Soulbeast still isn't overperforming, and there are at least four other builds I'd say need a nerf well before Soulbeast needs another.

In fact, Sic 'Em needs a buff.

[Vithzerai.3291]

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@Vithzerai.3291 said:

@kin korn karn.9023 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:Soulbeast can't offer competetive 1vs1 or XvsX gameplay and noone prefer it in higher ranks.How do you think nerfing Sic 'Em will help SB to get in competitive matches? I mean, isn't this the goal, all professions to offer competitive gameplay? By nerfing it you will do quite the opposite.Someone said that there are stronger professions for higher PvP matches and they are right but you are saying that everyone were blind 2 years because there were stronger skills in the game. And now you are saying that Sic 'Em is one of the strongest skills out there and we should concentrate on nerfing it, even so we all agree that this skill can't find a place in good competitive PvP matches (I mean we don't have to agree, because this is not an opinion but fact which you can see in the top ranks, by yourself).Sic 'Em needs small buff in order to bring SB in good competitive matches.

When I read comments like this last statement my faith in the community dies a little more lmao

I love such arguments. They are so productive :)

Well it's not like you're getting the point here either so that's just as worst for your case. Sic em existed before and only affected the pet, it says in the description itself. Pet merging allows this out of whack damage bonus to the ranger which most have paired with unblockables.

What's so hard to understand? They can keep the pet damage bonus if they want, the ranger however needs to get nerfed under the effects. 20% would still be plenty and still the most easily accessed damage modifier in the game.

Before they remove unstoppable union unblockable they should nerf the root cause of this broken damage.

I think he's not talking so much about pre-PoF, but more about how Sic Em has worked like this for nearly two years, so what's changed to make it suddenly relevant? The answer being that while it was never a great build to begin with (and still isn't), it has now become the most viable and most played ranger build since Boon Beast was gutted.

To play devil's advocate, seems like what people are saying in response to this is there were other, more broken professions and specs that people were far more invested in getting nerfed that they didn't even consider Soulbeast needing the nerf in light of all the other 'broken' professions. While I don't agree, you can at least understand the point they're making from their perspective. They were gonna' complain about Soulbeast from the get-go, there were just more pressing things to complain about.

I get that argument and think there's some truth to it. But people complained about Soulbeast before, it was just a different build, and one that was (probably)

actually

overperforming. LB/GS Soulbeast still isn't overperforming, and there are at least four other builds I'd say need a nerf well before Soulbeast needs another.

For sure. I've been thinking about why people seem so upset with Soulbeast right now, when I think most people could agree the likes of Scrapper are absolutely obnoxious right now. Maybe not broken, but certainly over-performing. (Not that I'm saying it should be nerfed, I'unno wth it would need to lose but still have enough to be viable.)

I'm GUESSING it's that people like playing the game, so as such they don't really like dying. Who knew.

So when they get a Sic em soulbeast deleting them from the game without using much skill, it's a crappy scenario, and they feel like they're not getting to play the game and that there's no counterplay. But when they're going against the scrapper for example, sure they find it ridiculous but they're still getting to play or feeling productive. Now what I'm about to say next I'm sure is going to aggravate alot of people, and sincerely my bad if that's the case, but this is what I'm -perceiving-.

This is what the mid to lower tier bracket are annoyed with, whereas the higher tiered players aren't complaining as much about Soulbeast because they do feel there is counterplay and skill involved in playing against/with a Soulbeast. Going against a Scrapper that takes far too long a time for it to be a reasonable tactical kill without investing too many people or resources while the Scrapper can facetank a bunch of skills without dodging or spacing and still be ridiculously survivable, that's what they consider not being able to play the game properly. That's my two cents, or two more cents anyway, which I've thrown around plenty over this whole soulbeast debate.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@verskore.4312 said:

@"Ben K.6238" said:Sorry. Agreement ain't gonna happen.

It's blatantly OP.

blatantly OP? lol sorry but that agreement aint gonna happen either boi.Skill hasnt been changed for years but suddenly it's blatantly OP?

The skill was changed though...

It used to be pet specific but now its not, now it effects the Ranger too.

When was it changed?

Isnt that obvious by what I posted?

No it is not. Can you give me month and year?

When they introduced Soulbeast...Merging with the pet for the 40% damage boost didnt exist for the first 4 or so years of the game.

Soulbeast has been introduced late 2017.The 40% dmg boost was

introduced in 2013

, but before that it has dmg boost too, just it didn't say it is 40%2 years no complaints and suddenly some people just want random nerfs.

@Crystal Paladin.3871 said:Since boonbeast variants nerfed with moa stance, rangers been trying out diff builds to be effective... And a few equip zerky jerky builds and embraced longbows in their weapon slots once again... Now ppl who were used to fighting meele setup boonbeast build started encountering sniper builds... Now all they remember when dying is longbow hits or maul hits... and Now they ask for nerfs...

When's the Last time Ranger buff listed in release notes? 5 or 6 months??? Idk

I don't remember any significant buffs to ranger after boonbeast moa stance got nerfed ... So it might be players' illusion :p ... Idk I might be wrong

I dont understand ur confusion. I believe he means from sic em creation up until soulbeast was added it only gave pet 40% damage boost and not ranger. Once soulbeast was added the player was than included in the damage multipliers when merged. Soulbeast is definitely way over tuned along with spellbreaker,fb, and holo. Where were all these ridiculous views on why a class isn't OP when thief and mirage xey's filled the forums lmao oh wait gues theres just more mains in the powercrept classes.

I am not confused. Soulbeast is here since 2017, now is 2019. There are no posts from 2017 about Sic 'Em nerf even so the skill hasn't changed.

As some have already said, SlB basically flew under the nerf radar and has been largely getting a free pass on nerfs to this day because the overwhelming amount of complaints, outrage, and calls for nerfs were directed at other specs such as Scourge, Thief, and Condi Mirage during most of that time. Now that those have been knocked down, remaining powercrept things like Sic 'Em SlB simply stand out more. And the more powercrept things that get adjusted (like Rev recently), the more SlB will rightfully stand out. In other words, Sic 'Em SlB was always busted. It just didn't get proper attention until recently. Simple as that.

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@Shao.7236 said:Sic em existed before and only affected the pet, it says in the description itself. Pet merging allows this out of whack damage bonus to the ranger which most have paired with unblockables.

What's so hard to understand?

Soulbeast is here since 2017, now is 2019. Why now?Soulbeast cant offer competitive PvP gameplay as it is too weak and easy to deal with, why nerf?

I know you're serious, but stuff like this is beginning to sound like a meme.

@Vithzerai.3291 said:Seems like the biggest counter-argument to Soulbeast rarely being in the top tier of play and therefore doesn't need a nerf is we shouldn't balance around the top 10% (Or w/e percentage) of the population. Thing is, I'd argue that for a competitive game mode surely you -should- balance around the top tier of play. You can argue all day long whether GW2 being competitive is a joke of an idea, if you're at least attempting to make a game competitive you should balance a game around the most competitive part of the environment, right? So therefore Soulbeast, at least I'd argue, really doesn't need a nerf.

Whether the game should be balanced exclusively around the top tier of play is debatable. Here's the thing, by your reasoning, something like Condi Mirage should never have been touched. People like Incisorr made the "no Condi Mirages in top 10, and only 1 in top 100 (himself), etc." argument all day long, and no one took it seriously. Why? Because the "unfun" experiences of 90% (or whatever) of the community apparently mattered. You needn't look far back in balance update history to see which camp Anet sided with. For them to do any different with regards to SlB would be an abdication of equity.

@Vithzerai.3291 said:A nerf I could get more behind on a small level is maybe nerf the mobility of Soulbeast a lil'. Shorter range on the greatsword leap and the soulbeast ability dashes. Perhaps people will be less annoyed by the pewpewyness if he can't be around everywhere doing it, or follow up a rapid fire combo immediately by closing the gap in one skill.

I would take anything to start with tbh. The point is SlB has not seen significant nerfs to this broken mechanic since creation. I think it's Trevor who even advocates nerfing the range of Sic 'Em in half, preserving the damage, but forcing SlBs to come within shorter range to benefit, allowing some degree of counterplay to melee and other classes via short range gap closers. Your range-related nerfs would further this end as well and certainly help combat the seeming unfairness, lack of counterplay, and overly low-risk, high reward nature of ranged Sic 'Em. Or if you rather keep the long range, in keeping with being RANGErs, damage needs to go, by a lot.

That's one thing I personally never understood about Ranger, mainly SlB, in this game. In most games, the basic paradigm is pew-pew stuff does less damage because it's dealt from long-range safety, while melee is where the DPS resides since it's risky (not to mention the basic physics of being pelted by arrows versus being sliced by a greatsword). The fundamental problem with SlB is it breaks this paradigm, offering top DPS from the safety of range, stealth, and excellent mobility and disengage should it actually be needed.

@Vithzerai.3291 said:

@"Ben K.6238" said:You don't fix an uncompetitive class by taking the one thing that contributes most to power creep on that class and making it even more overpowered. You fix it by addressing the reasons why it doesn't use anything else.

Back in the day, the most effective ranger builds didn't use longbow at all.

That's because there was an abundance of reflect/projectile destruction so it was next to pointless. However now people want Unstoppable union nerfed aswell, so. vOv I'unno, y'know what, I hope it gets nerfed. If I stand corrected then that's actually a good thing 'cause it means it'll be fine, but what I suspect will happen is Soulbeast will be next to unplayable if other professions don't get shifted aswell, and then hopefully people will be like, "Oh snap, maybe it didn't need a nerf." Or we'll find out who some of the provocateurs in this community are.

If remaining power-crept stuff like Holo, Scrapper, and Spellbreaker get proper adjustments--as they should--SlB won't be disadvantaged. Certainly no more than other once great dueling specs who've already seen huge shakeups.

I'm sorry SlB mains, but if history is any indication, the sooner you accept what's coming, the better off you'll be.

[Evil.1580]

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

Powercreep:The situation where updates to a game introduce more powerful units or abilities, leaving the older ones underpowered.

Why don't you answer my question, which you call a meme?

My main question to you:If SLB is such power creep, because of a skill, if this skill is so powerful, where are all the SLB in higher PvP ranks?

My secondary questions:Do you agree that in PvP there are better performing professions? If yes: 1st do you think that by nerfing this skill will make the SLB perform equally with these professions and 2nd how do you call Sic 'Em a power creep when we all know that there are a lot stronger skills?

[praqtos.9035]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@verskore.4312 said:

@"Ben K.6238" said:Sorry. Agreement ain't gonna happen.

It's blatantly OP.

blatantly OP? lol sorry but that agreement aint gonna happen either boi.Skill hasnt been changed for years but suddenly it's blatantly OP?

The skill was changed though...

It used to be pet specific but now its not, now it effects the Ranger too.

When was it changed?

Isnt that obvious by what I posted?

No it is not. Can you give me month and year?

When they introduced Soulbeast...Merging with the pet for the 40% damage boost didnt exist for the first 4 or so years of the game.

Soulbeast has been introduced late 2017.The 40% dmg boost was

introduced in 2013

, but before that it has dmg boost too, just it didn't say it is 40%2 years no complaints and suddenly some people just want random nerfs.If you are interested they butchered a lot of core mechanics of certain classes/traits/weapons for no reason despite of them not being touched since 2013 year but SUDDENLY in 2019 they decided it was broken !