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Soulbeast Needs Some Genuine Nerf Bat Love in the Next Balance Update


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Sic Em and One Wolf Pack are both completely garbage gimmick utilities. You guys are dying to a meme build.

They aren't fun to fight against, aren't viable in competitive, and require very little skill to play. Remove them both from the game for all I care, the builds that use them are trash anyways.

The only time a Sic Em + OWP longbow build should ever be used is if you want to gank people that don't know how to defend themselves properly.

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awesome video. 100% demonstrates the problems with SB :)it doesnt matter if you dodge LB4+LB2 with SicEm, because GS2 hit harder than any warrior could ever dream to hit...failed GS2 aswell? LB3... failed that? GS3 away + merge with your pet and F1/F2/F3 away (depending on the pet) - oh way my LB2+LB4 is back again :D:

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@Zawn.9647 said:awesome video. 100% demonstrates the problems with SB :)it doesnt matter if you dodge LB4+LB2 with SicEm, because GS2 hit harder than any warrior could ever dream to hit...failed GS2 aswell? LB3... failed that? GS3 away + merge with your pet and F1/F2/F3 away (depending on the pet) - oh way my LB2+LB4 is back again :D:

Sure! While your opponent is jist staying still looking at you lol...

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@FyzE.3472 said:

@Zawn.9647 said:awesome video. 100% demonstrates the problems with SB :)it doesnt matter if you dodge LB4+LB2 with SicEm, because GS2 hit harder than any warrior could ever dream to hit...failed GS2 aswell? LB3... failed that? GS3 away + merge with your pet and F1/F2/F3 away (depending on the pet) - oh way my LB2+LB4 is back again :D:

Sure! While your opponent is jist staying still looking at you lol...

i really dont know if your trolling or not :)do I need to ask permission for my opponent to get away with GS3+merge pet+stealth? last time i checked, i didnt... neither does the opponent can do much to stop me if I started from LB range and then decided to flee after missing (or not killing) with my LB4+2

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@Revolution.5409 said:

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:I admit, part of my reason for starting a separate SlB thread is to see if they can collectively generate enough noise to get something done. It certainly worked on mesmer. The double standards may be insurmountable though.

With mirage it worked because an entire community required an attunement for the profession, here I only see people who require nerfs because they feel that their profession is no longer the strongest.You are far away from truth my boy. That wasnt "attunement for the profession" that was a begging to farm them without any effort,so that happened, butchered to its core with 50% damage nerfs,trait deletions. Why bother with elite spec,core is faster to nerf. Would be funny to see core ranger to get gutted though.

@Vithzerai.3291 said:What're we planning on making unviable after Soulbeast by the way bois?Rampage-main is on my dartboard and people who have rampage instead of the brain

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Who would've thought that balance issues would arise when you take a skill that was designed years prior, balanced around it being used for a pet, only to keep its damage modifier as-is without any adjustments when given interaction to the player via Soulbeast.

Regardless of whether it is as valuable as other utility skills, the skill is unhealthy as is. I honestly don't know why people try to defend this dumb gimmick. 40% damage modifier from a single utility skill? And no, not just for a few attacks, but for 10 flat seconds, with slightly over 33% uptime when traited. This skill is a balance embarrassment and belongs in the garbage bin. Too much nerfing and it'll make the skill absolute trash, so I'm in favor it being reworked to something more balanced and healthy for the game. People are suggesting to nerf things like longbow, but the weapon is well-balanced as is and doesn't need any nerfs (or buffs) to it.

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@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:Who would've thought that balance issues would arise when you take a skill that was designed years prior, balanced around it being used for a pet, only to keep its damage modifier as-is without any adjustments when given interaction to the player via Soulbeast.

Regardless of whether it is as valuable as other utility skills, the skill is unhealthy as is. I honestly don't know why people try to defend this dumb gimmick. 40% damage modifier from a single utility skill? And no, not just for a few attacks, but for 10 flat seconds, with slightly over 33% uptime when traited. This skill is a balance embarrassment and belongs in the garbage bin. Too much nerfing and it'll make the skill absolute trash, so I'm in favor it being reworked to something more balanced and healthy for the game. People are suggesting to nerf things like longbow, but the weapon is well-balanced as is and doesn't need any nerfs (or buffs) to it.Agree but range on this weapon is literally bugged and 400 further than intended. Lets call it a bug fix

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Just to clarify, I'm not calling for SlB to be nerfed into the ground or smiter's booned. Over-nerfs are bad for any class, and SlB is no exception. I'm just saying that while many builds have been greatly toned down, SlB, along with a few other outliers remain noticeably untouched (or barely touched) and out of alignment.

It's not even the meme builds that are necessarily a problem, but the hybrid builds that have as good damage as they have sustain, both of which are excellent. Its basic kit is just way overtuned. Things like Sic 'Em that are reasonable in core Ranger get blown way out of proportion on SlB.

SlB is conspicuously in need of a real "trade off" in keeping with Anet's recently announced balance direction. And no, sacrificing pet abilities while in Beastmode is not much of a trade off when those abilities are instead used by the SlB to much greater effect. Some have predicted that limiting SlB to one pet and entering and exiting Beastmode counting as pet swap (for those mechanics) are a sensible trade off. Whether it is or not, SlB desperately needs a trade off because as it stands, it's just a far, far better ranger without giving up much at all.

Comparisons to Deadeye are telling. It can be said that both DE and Sic 'Em Sniper SlBs served the same role. The difference is DE is as glassy as it gets, with only stealth to survive and disengage. Death's Judgment underwent mutiple nerfs and the nail in DE's coffin was the nerf to stealth. SlB starts off much sturdier and while its snipe may not necessarily be 1-shot, it's certainly 2-shot capable. It's also far less telegraphed which makes it far easier with which to catch opponents off guard, and lacks in counterplay. I would honestly rather have DE in its pre-nerfed state than SlB Snipers.

As has already been said, LoS is not a LB trump card. WvW is full of wide open spaces, and even in sPvP, maps like Capricorn and Foefire are quite open. Then there are the long open runs between nodes of all maps. And that's all assuming one can even react near instantly to quickness- and damage-boosted Rapid Fire, sometimes out of stealth. Or in the middle of a team fight when one is already engaged and a SlB slips in from elsewhere and focuses you. Same role as DE, but far less obvious until too late.

Top players may have the years of experience to effectively counter these tactics, but that doesn't change the fact that it is just too effective in the vast majority of the base, for relatively little skill and effort. This basic argument sent all varieties of Mesmer into B-class. Why should the standards change when a different profession is in question?

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@shadowpass.4236 said:Sic Em and One Wolf Pack are both completely garbage gimmick utilities. You guys are dying to a meme build.

They aren't fun to fight against, aren't viable in competitive, and require very little skill to play. Remove them both from the game for all I care, the builds that use them are trash anyways.

The only time a Sic Em + OWP longbow build should ever be used is if you want to gank people that don't know how to defend themselves properly.

^ This

It's just a meme counter build for vs. specific team comps when people stack too many FBs/Necros/Thieves on same team. Otherwise, I run Druid or Scrapper to side node. I know no one wants to accept this... but this whole Sic Em thing really is the most l2p issue that ever was a l2p issue.

I mean, if any of these people cared to notice, in my Berserker Soulbeast videos, it's showing footage of bottom plat maybe bottom plat 2 kills at best, probably many of them in gold 3. In the footage of my Druid, it shows 1v1s against Gods of PvP and Best of Bestests. I dunno, make of that what you want.

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Sic Em is a bit stupid on SLB with 40% Dmg Buff for 10s (+ Reveal) on not even 30s CD, but otherwise I don't really think SLB is a balance issue atm. Sic Em needs either lower duration, higher CD or less Dmg Buff. Probably hitting duration is the best idea, worked fine when nerfing One Wolf Pack.

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@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:It's funny seeing people defending this lunacy that two patches ago assumed every mirage player was a delusional class carried noob.

RIGHT!

Like it used to be "OMG you one shot me, your combo is brain dead easy and you are getting carried you needa a nerf to everything"

Now those people " OMG this is a gimmick you can dodge and LOS, it's very hard to pull off it needs to be buffed"

The forums are a great source for examples on "Hypocrisy at its finest"

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@"praqtos.9035" said:You are far away from truth my boy. That wasnt "attunement for the profession" that was a begging to farm them without any effort,so that happened, butchered to its core with 50% damage nerfs,trait deletions. Why bother with elite spec,core is faster to nerf. Would be funny to see core ranger to get gutted though.

I understand what you mean, but would you have preferred to see mirage as a druid?

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@Solori.6025 said:

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:It's funny seeing people defending this lunacy that two patches ago assumed every mirage player was a delusional class carried noob.

RIGHT!

Like it used to be "OMG you one shot me, your combo is brain dead easy and you are getting carried you needa a nerf to everything"Actually you just described rampage elite...Now those people " OMG this is a gimmick you can dodge and LOS, it's very hard to pull off it needs to be buffed"Rampage-mains using exact same arguments but add also random babbling about l2p

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@Revolution.5409 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:You are far away from truth my boy. That wasnt "attunement for the profession" that was a begging to farm them without any effort,so that happened, butchered to its core with 50% damage nerfs,trait deletions. Why bother with elite spec,core is faster to nerf. Would be funny to see core ranger to get gutted though.

I understand what you mean, but would you have preferred to see mirage as a druid?What? Do you mean like mirage would be as bad as druid? I'd say mesmer is a meme now at this point, couldnt care less about mirage which comes with more downsides than cons, lol.How come rn top10 is a druid main?
How they even win with a druid ? p.s beaten guys are tryhards/monthly winners multiple times.

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@Solori.6025 said:

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:It's funny seeing people defending this lunacy that two patches ago assumed every mirage player was a delusional class carried noob.

RIGHT!

Like it used to be "OMG you one shot me, your combo is brain dead easy and you are getting carried you needa a nerf to everything"

Now those people " OMG this is a gimmick you can dodge and LOS, it's very hard to pull off it needs to be buffed"

The forums are a great source for examples on "Hypocrisy at its finest"

Condi mirage wasn't a gimmick spec that relied on all of it's traits and utilities to 100-0 someone.

Nearly every single weapon skill on Sw/P A/T Condi Mirage can be used mid-range and:

  1. Needs to be dodged

! - Mirage Thrust (spammable)! - Illusionary Leap -> Swap! - Phantasmal Duelist! - Magic Bullet! - Imaginary Axes! - Lingering Thoughts! - Axes of Symmetry! - The Prestige! - Phantasmal Mage

  1. Does a lot of burst/DoT

! - Phantasmal Duelist! - Imaginary Axes! - Lingering Thoughts! - Axes of Symmetry! - The Prestige! - Phantasmal Mage

  1. Provides a lot of utility/survivability/mobility

! - Mirage Thrust (spammable)! - Blurred Frenzy! - Illusionary Leap -> Swap! - Magic Bullet! - Axes of Symmetry! - The Prestige! - Phantasmal Mage

  1. Hard CCs

! - Mirage Thrust (spammable)! - Magic Bullet! - Phantasmal Mage

Compare that to lb/gs soulbeast where the only skills you really need to avoid are Maul, Point Blank Shot, and Rapid Fire. Hilt Bash/Takedown/Worldly Impact are extremely close range melee skills that you can easily out-range by walking away. You can also completely negate Sic Em and OWP by walking behind LoS. This essentially renders the soulbeast useless for the next 30-60 seconds.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:It's funny seeing people defending this lunacy that two patches ago assumed every mirage player was a delusional class carried noob.

RIGHT!

Like it used to be "OMG you one shot me, your combo is brain dead easy and you are getting carried you needa a nerf to everything"

Now those people " OMG this is a gimmick you can dodge and LOS, it's very hard to pull off it needs to be buffed"

The forums are a great source for examples on "Hypocrisy at its finest"

Condi mirage wasn't a gimmick spec that relied on all of it's traits and utilities to 100-0 someone.

Imma stop you right there.Lets get one thing straight.I dont care for condi mirageIN FACT. I believe I have been quite vocal about ways to nerf it and condi. As I have frequently said.Conditions being a DoT (Damage over time in case you didnt know) should NEVER be burst.It's one of the many failed designs that Anet has thought up.So with that out the way. Your entire post to me about condi mirage is moot

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@Solori.6025 said:

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:It's funny seeing people defending this lunacy that two patches ago assumed every mirage player was a delusional class carried noob.

RIGHT!

Like it used to be "OMG you one shot me, your combo is brain dead easy and you are getting carried you needa a nerf to everything"

Now those people " OMG this is a gimmick you can dodge and LOS, it's very hard to pull off it needs to be buffed"

The forums are a great source for examples on "Hypocrisy at its finest"

Condi mirage wasn't a gimmick spec that relied on all of it's traits and utilities to 100-0 someone.

Imma stop you right there.Lets get one thing straight.I dont care for condi mirageIN FACT. I believe I have been quite vocal about ways to nerf it and condi. As I have frequently said.Conditions being a DoT (Damage over time in case you didnt know) should NEVER be burst.It's one of the many failed designs that Anet has thought up.So with that out the way. Your entire post to me about condi mirage is moot

First, you quoted someone that thought people "defending" Sic Em Ranger is funny considering they were complaining about Mirage two patches ago.

Then, you called the same people hypocritical for saying Mirage was braindead to play whilst Ranger is easy to counter.

I'm not arguing against you but it sounded like you were defending Mirage. ¯\(ツ)

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:It's funny seeing people defending this lunacy that two patches ago assumed every mirage player was a delusional class carried noob.

RIGHT!

Like it used to be "OMG you one shot me, your combo is brain dead easy and you are getting carried you needa a nerf to everything"

Now those people " OMG this is a gimmick you can dodge and LOS, it's very hard to pull off it needs to be buffed"

The forums are a great source for examples on "Hypocrisy at its finest"

Condi mirage wasn't a gimmick spec that relied on all of it's traits and utilities to 100-0 someone.

Imma stop you right there.Lets get one thing straight.I dont care for condi mirageIN FACT. I believe I have been quite vocal about ways to nerf it and condi. As I have frequently said.Conditions being a DoT (Damage over time in case you didnt know) should NEVER be burst.It's one of the many failed designs that Anet has thought up.So with that out the way. Your entire post to me about condi mirage is moot

First, you quoted someone that thought people "defending" Sic Em Ranger is funny considering they were complaining about Mirage two patches ago.

Then, you called the same people hypocritical for saying Mirage was braindead to play whilst Ranger is easy to counter.

I'm not arguing against you but it sounded like you were defending Mirage. ¯\
(ツ)

First- In the context of things with ranger doing power damage I assumed we were talking about power mirage. Which was a nerfed repeatedly AND STILL complained about.

Second- I am calling the people that complained about everything mirage - (Even when counters to it were given (( same as people are doing now)), It's representation at the top of the boards and in AT's was miniscule or non- existent (( same as people are doing now)), and it's damage relied on a singular combo (( same as now)) Then turn around and use the exact same arguments they shot down Hypocrites. Cause that is what it is.

LastlyFrom the complaints for mesmer ( not even specifically condi mirage cause some people couldn't be bothered to specify what they were complaining about and just used the general term Mesmer. That's another rant in and of itself since now all of a sudden people are like " you mean soulbeast , you cant say ranger cause that makes it seem like it's the whole class")what was nerfed?E V E R Y T H I N Gfrom core traits to the elite spec.Core weapons up to the elite weapons

So I will ask any ranger apologist/white knight the same questions I posed to Trevor in another thread.

If mesmer and thief were doing to much damage, and they both suffered nerfs to the elite AND core repeatedly because of it. Even when they were not present in the top percentiles of the meta.Why should ranger be the exception? Why does ranger get to have a free pass from being treated like everyone else?

Edit: had to re-read your post shadow, So I changed the ending of mine..Now it's directed towards Anyone 8D

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