Fair Balancing?

[Arheundel.6451]

@spectrito.8513 said:

@"Mokk.2397" said:What armor do you have on,because just looking at that damage I know your running glass .Was the ranger in question externally booned up ?So throwing up a bunch of combat damage up is just testimonial BS that doesn't prove anything .Show us your armor stats and prove with the combat math that is provided .This is just more single sided BS that's completely biased with purely circumstantial evidence.The ranger is fine the way it is .People are just mad because it upsets their precious Meta.Ranger /Soulbeast running LB is power damage .Dump your Glass Meta build and put some armor on .I have Minstrels on with scholar runes and never get hit like that from any ranger or soulbeast .Your argument is empty and unfounded.

If you can defend this BS after watching this idk what to tell you

Any class can do this one shot bullcrap....even ele can do that , seen videos of @Cellofrag hitting people for 20k churning earth, stop talking about balance using these kind of videos

Is this fair balancing?

[Caedmon.6798]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:

@"Mokk.2397" said:What armor do you have on,because just looking at that damage I know your running glass .Was the ranger in question externally booned up ?So throwing up a bunch of combat damage up is just testimonial BS that doesn't prove anything .Show us your armor stats and prove with the combat math that is provided .This is just more single sided BS that's completely biased with purely circumstantial evidence.The ranger is fine the way it is .People are just mad because it upsets their precious Meta.Ranger /Soulbeast running LB is power damage .Dump your Glass Meta build and put some armor on .I have Minstrels on with scholar runes and never get hit like that from any ranger or soulbeast .Your argument is empty and unfounded.

If you can defend this BS after watching this idk what to tell you

Any class can do this one shot bullcrap....

even ele can do that

, seen videos of @Cellofrag hitting people for 20k churning earth, stop talking about balance using these kind of videos

Is this fair balancing?

This thread is about ranger bud. So showing off a vid from a ranger doing absurd damage on a build thats not being touched for months is exactly what this is about while berserk gets insta nerfed by 25% cus the damage was too high and people complained about it ( And i agreed with it,eventhough this is my main ) .Also not "any" class is able to one shot for 20k - 30k with One skill.

Eventhough u name the mesm spike as oneshot,its not.Its a combo of several skills being used in succesion on mesmer while thats not the case for ranger where the damage is being done with One skill after being buffed up,thats a difference.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Caedmon.6798 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@spectrito.8513 said:

@"Mokk.2397" said:What armor do you have on,because just looking at that damage I know your running glass .Was the ranger in question externally booned up ?So throwing up a bunch of combat damage up is just testimonial BS that doesn't prove anything .Show us your armor stats and prove with the combat math that is provided .This is just more single sided BS that's completely biased with purely circumstantial evidence.The ranger is fine the way it is .People are just mad because it upsets their precious Meta.Ranger /Soulbeast running LB is power damage .Dump your Glass Meta build and put some armor on .I have Minstrels on with scholar runes and never get hit like that from any ranger or soulbeast .Your argument is empty and unfounded.

If you can defend this BS after watching this idk what to tell you

Any class can do this one shot bullcrap....

even ele can do that

, seen videos of @Cellofrag hitting people for 20k churning earth, stop talking about balance using these kind of videos

Is this fair balancing?

This thread is about ranger bud. So showing off a vid from a ranger doing absurd damage on a build thats not being touched for months is exactly what this is about while berserk gets insta nerfed by 25% cus the damage was too high and people complained about it ( And i agreed with it,eventhough this is my main ) .Also not "any" class is able to one shot for 20k - 30k with One skill.

Eventhough u name the mesm spike as oneshot,its not.Its a combo of several skills being used in succesion on mesmer while thats not the case for ranger where the damage is being done with One skill after being buffed up,thats a difference.

You need a strong reality check ( like many others) if you think a dmg threshold reduced from 17k to 14k on heavy armor targets ...it's a nerf...because it's not , the thread title is fair balancing of which current warrior is definetely not a fine example , anything that does dmg should not have the sustain of a bruiser that's called balance!

Do not think even for a minute that any nerfs to ranger will stop the nerf threads to warrior , my friend ...might makes me right it's still a busted trait , no matter all your L2P arguments...everything in this game should be nerfed to ele level, you either do dmg or you sustain...YOU DON'T DO BOTH.....

[Mokk.2397]

Again people jump on band wagons without a slightest inquiry on whether the argument is fact. Maul s damage is really no more than other attacks from other classes ,Look at other class skills with similar activation times and cool downs .Don't be lazy band wagoners and go and have a look. Take a look at some that have faster cool downs and compare the damage over a similar period of time .Look at Mighty Blow on Guardian for example .Theirs a give and take to all skills for every class.If your getting one shotted by Maul then I say again PUT SOME ARMOR ON!!!!!

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Mokk.2397 said:Look at Mighty Blow on Guardian for example .

Gasp Silence! I just discovered this last night! Lemme have fun on it please xD

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:Guys. For once I'm going to take the Ranger's side.Mounts changed everything.If a Necro can do it, so can you! \o/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tylk9xY6TIY

The people here were talking about damage though, you ended up just promoting video.

When I complain about ranger I get criticised.When I defend ranger I get criticised.I'm at a loss for what to do now.The internet is such a cruel world ?

[SkyShroud.2865]

gw2...nth is fair

[Dawdler.8521]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@"Mokk.2397" said:Look at Mighty Blow on Guardian for example .

Gasp

Silence! I just discovered this last night! Lemme have fun on it please xD

A clip I took like half a year ago, I dont think anything about it has been nerfed, lol. Basicly delayed mighty blow + sheild explosion + judge instakill from 1200 range. No class in the game is capable of anything remotely close as they either have that damage at pointblank, at range but channeled, shorter teleport or they need to teleport before they can ramp up damage. Kind of obvious macro though, he did that every single time lol.

(before anyone say glass, that's on 1800 toughness)

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@Auburner.6945 said:The problem is not Rapidfire or GS skills, they are easily predictable/dodge-able. I got hit by auto attacks, 7k each, and the ranger could've had their auto-targeting up to make it even more challenging to land such high skill based auto attack from 1800 range. Just remove the damage increase based on range (it even defies physics), make them all as the lowest value of the three. Also, fix the damage modifiers, the base value of the auto attack and the co-efficient are almost the same as any other weapon, yet on SB with a 1800 range, it seems to hit the hardest.

Even still, if a ranger Auto-attack hits an average target in WvW; an average target runs some level of toughness. Most meta-comps run high levels of toughness. The auto-attack doesn't even crack 1500 damage. This is far from overpowered. We can't base how OP a class is based on them hitting people with little to no defense.

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Dawdler.8521 said:lmao, not to mock that situation or anything, but it looked so much like a tiny gopher getting swooped by some kind of predatory bird. The top hat made me chuckle.PS - and the clone that came out was like your soul leaving your body lol

[Auburner.6945]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@"Auburner.6945" said:The problem is not Rapidfire or GS skills, they are easily predictable/dodge-able. I got hit by auto attacks, 7k each, and the ranger could've had their auto-targeting up to make it even more challenging to land such high skill based auto attack from 1800 range. Just remove the damage increase based on range (it even defies physics), make them all as the lowest value of the three. Also, fix the damage modifiers, the base value of the auto attack and the co-efficient are almost the same as any other weapon, yet on SB with a 1800 range, it seems to hit the hardest.

Even still, if a ranger Auto-attack hits an average target in WvW; an average target runs some level of toughness. Most meta-comps run high levels of toughness. The auto-attack doesn't even crack 1500 damage. This is far from overpowered. We can't base how OP a class is based on them hitting people with little to no defense.

Here is a calculation showing that the damage is still high even vs players that build Toughness. An Elementalist has 1000 Toughness which is 1888 Armor. And Elementalist with 600 more Toughness will have 2500+ Armor.

Let's calcualte the skill's damage first of a SB on Full Marauder with Beastmastery and Wilderness Survival, and in beast mode (this example has no runes/sigils included still as not all will run Scholar/Pack for more damage): Skill damage = (Weapon strength Power Skill Co-eff.) = (1000 2500 0.9) = 2.25M, this number will come in handy below

Now let's calculate the damage this skill will do with modifiers and on crit: Modified damage = (Skill damage Positive modifiers)/(Target's Armor Negative modifiers) = (2.25M 1.1 "loud whistle" 1.07 "furious strength" 1.1 "oppressive superiority 2.2 "ferocity" * 1.4 "sic'em")/2500 = 3600 damage. That's 3600 damage vs a target that has wasted 600+ potential stats into Toughness to take 3600 from 1800 range at the start of a duel. Let alone that this 3600 was made if the SB has no runes or sigils equipped, and no boons but Fury, so imagine the damage with Might and offensive runes/sigils.

And not everyone runs Toughness as that of a full misntrel support. This gets even worse when a SB runs Marksmanship with Piercing and picks you in the middle of a zerg while they are at the roof, in this case, your support has nothing to do to save you, and this is one of the reasons why pin-sniping a commander exists... I would rather a cancerous pirate ship than this.

Now this is made even worse that the SB is not made of paper but can still survive and actually has the meta build on already, so it's not a d**keye that once the gap is closed is dead.

[Hitman.5829]

because that is anet's logic. Range classes should hit harder than melee classes.As for the ranger gretsword damage it is obviously exaggerated and needs nerfing. Not even warrior can get those numbers.On a nice day, a warrior can land a 12K or 13K hundred blades in 3.5 seconds and this requires your enemy to be stun or to be AFK.

[Kovu.7560]

These ranger cherry-picked combat videos are showcasing racial utilities, racial elites and mount skills one-shotting players.... and yet there are still people who seem to feel the base damage on ranger is too high and not, say, the multitude of modifiers on soulbeast?

~ Kovu

[Burnfall.9573]

Fair Balancing?

Took some time off with this game. I entered wvw and was one shotted with Revenant Deathstrikehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike

Once again; Anet fails to address +1 shotting toxicity. Until they do so; more losses will take place including more new and potential players who were watching the live streaming today.

Resuming competitor competitive gaming companies course of taking your customers-players away.

While +1 shotting Toxicity continues to take the game down to the grave with no mercy.

--Toxicity purpose is to destroy everything in its path and to drain every life in its path into non existence-

(Anet is solely responsible for creating this self-destructive monster)

[santso.9201]

i would like to see The bm+marksmanship oneshot build that actually has bruiser sustain. Or The ws variant that can do oneshots against anything but full zerker ele or thief.

[Jski.6180]

They need to standardize hp / def or vary power / precision base off of the class at least in wvw and spvp. It would go a long way to making classes able to go all in for dmg with out giving up being tankly (able to do less dmg over all) OR lets classes able to take hits (being able to take less dmg with out going all in on def).

In what world is it ok to have high evasion high burst and stealth with mid to high hp? Well outside of gw2 world lol.

[Burnfall.9573]

https://massivelyop.com/2015/12/15/guild-wars-2-e-sports-team-ragequits-over-design-meta-technical-issues/

'I apologize that we did bow out so early, but, at this point, it legitimately is just so hard to care about the game in its current state. If you need to, go back and see Game 1 of the series; 3 nodes contested something like 12 minutes into the game, with the score something like 30-0? Look at that, and then look back at me and tell me that we should be expected to sit and mash buttons hopelessly for 15 minutes. In this meta, as soon as somebody gets 1 cap, it’s over. This isn’t just me; so many people I know and talk to that are also in NA Pro Leagues agree. So many of us are relieved now that a four-week break is coming up. For the first time, so many of us, when we come home, settle down, and grab a coffee or soda or whatever, and given free time to play Guild Wars, are simply not logging on, because this game is simply un-fun to play against. It’s boring, unskilled, and… ironically, it has zero counterplay.'

[Shining One.1635]

@Hitman.5829 said:Range classes should hit harder than melee classes.I think it should be: Melee Single Target > Ranged Single Target > Melee Area > Ranged AreaSo, yes: Ranger single target shots should hit harder than melee attacks that can hit multiple people.

[Hitman.5829]

@Shining One.1635 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:Range classes should hit harder than melee classes.I think it should be: Melee Single Target > Ranged Single Target > Melee Area > Ranged AreaSo, yes: Ranger single target shots should hit harder than melee attacks that can hit multiple people.

Unfortunately that is not the case with this game. Warrior single targets skills are one of the worst damage dealers in the game. And skills that hit multiple targets deal high damage. Only god knows that is going on when they implement nerfs and buffs. I am guessing they do it based on the class they play. If a dev is a main mesmer, then he/she will change things based on his experiences that is my guess.

[beatthedown.2651]

Aren't there at least two other active threads regarding that topic? Mods are going to make a megathread if this goes on like this. Also OP, even a 70% baseline damage reduction won't save you if let yourself hit by every single hard hitting skill.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Burnfall.9573" said:https://massivelyop.com/2015/12/15/guild-wars-2-e-sports-team-ragequits-over-design-meta-technical-issues/

'I apologize that we did bow out so early, but, at this point, it legitimately is just so hard to care about the game in its current state. If you need to, go back and see Game 1 of the series; 3 nodes contested something like 12 minutes into the game, with the score something like 30-0? Look at that, and then look back at me and tell me that we should be expected to sit and mash buttons hopelessly for 15 minutes. In this meta, as soon as somebody gets 1 cap, it’s over. This isn’t just me; so many people I know and talk to that are also in NA Pro Leagues agree. So many of us are relieved now that a four-week break is coming up. For the first time, so many of us, when we come home, settle down, and grab a coffee or soda or whatever, and given free time to play Guild Wars, are simply not logging on, because this game is simply un-fun to play against. It’s boring, unskilled, and… ironically, it has zero counterplay.'That is a problem of the sPvP gamemode design though, not actual class balance. We've been saying that since 2012, its always been a problem.

As a comparison, the "issue" existed all the way back in the old Battlefield games using their conquest mode (pretty much all capping point modes take inspiration from that). They solved it by using numerical superiority instead of hard contest.

[Mokk.2397]

@Auburner.6945 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:The problem is not Rapidfire or GS skills, they are easily predictable/dodge-able. I got hit by auto attacks, 7k each, and the ranger could've had their auto-targeting up to make it even more challenging to land such high skill based auto attack from 1800 range. Just remove the damage increase based on range (it even defies physics), make them all as the lowest value of the three. Also, fix the damage modifiers, the base value of the auto attack and the co-efficient are almost the same as any other weapon, yet on SB with a 1800 range, it seems to hit the hardest.

Even still, if a ranger Auto-attack hits an average target in WvW; an average target runs some level of toughness. Most meta-comps run high levels of toughness. The auto-attack doesn't even crack 1500 damage. This is far from overpowered. We can't base how OP a class is based on them hitting people with little to no defense.

Here is a calculation showing that the damage is still high even vs players that build Toughness. An Elementalist has 1000 Toughness which is 1888 Armor. And Elementalist with 600 more Toughness will have 2500+ Armor.

Let's calcualte the skill's damage first of a SB on Full Marauder with Beastmastery and Wilderness Survival, and in beast mode (this example has no runes/sigils included still as not all will run Scholar/Pack for more damage): Skill damage = (Weapon strength

Power

Skill Co-eff.) = (1000

2500

0.9) = 2.25M, this number will come in handy below

Now let's calculate the damage this skill will do with modifiers and on crit: Modified damage = (Skill damage

Positive modifiers)/(Target's Armor

Negative modifiers) = (2.25M

1.1 "loud whistle"

1.07 "furious strength"

1.1 "oppressive superiority

2.2 "ferocity" * 1.4 "sic'em")/2500 = 3600 damage. That's 3600 damage vs a target that has wasted 600+ potential stats into Toughness to take 3600 from 1800 range at the start of a duel. Let alone that this 3600 was made if the SB has no runes or sigils equipped, and no boons but Fury, so imagine the damage with Might and offensive runes/sigils.

And not everyone runs Toughness as that of a full misntrel support. This gets even worse when a SB runs Marksmanship with Piercing and picks you in the middle of a zerg while they are at the roof, in this case, your support has nothing to do to save you, and this is one of the reasons why pin-sniping a commander exists... I would rather a cancerous pirate ship than this.

Now this is made even worse that the SB is not made of paper but can still survive and actually has the meta build on already, so it's not a d**keye that once the gap is closed is dead.

Again your misleading people.The power of a soulbeast /ranger with onlty Marauders is 1741, not the 2500 you describe .Ferocity only dds 20% to critical CHANCE only one time the rest is added to duration. So with marauders the total crit damage is 191.67% with a 40.29% chance. Loud whistle adds 10%,Oppressive Superiority adds 10% ,Sic 'Em! adds 40%,furious strength adds 7% .So the calculation should read 100017410.9 = 1566900 with percentage modifiers of loud whistle 1.1 ,oppressive superiority 1.1 , Sic 'Em! 1.4.furious strength 1.07 against a 2500 armor the damage is 1136. Now assuming that you actually crit on that 40% chance the crit modifier Is base 1.4029 0.9167 = Base 1.286. doing the math 1566900 1.11.11.41.07 1.286 /2500 =1460.96 damage.This are based on the formulas provided in the wiki under damage and critical damage .

1460.96 damage not the 3500 damage you proclaim

[Auburner.6945]

@Mokk.2397 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:The problem is not Rapidfire or GS skills, they are easily predictable/dodge-able. I got hit by auto attacks, 7k each, and the ranger could've had their auto-targeting up to make it even more challenging to land such high skill based auto attack from 1800 range. Just remove the damage increase based on range (it even defies physics), make them all as the lowest value of the three. Also, fix the damage modifiers, the base value of the auto attack and the co-efficient are almost the same as any other weapon, yet on SB with a 1800 range, it seems to hit the hardest.

Even still, if a ranger Auto-attack hits an average target in WvW; an average target runs some level of toughness. Most meta-comps run high levels of toughness. The auto-attack doesn't even crack 1500 damage. This is far from overpowered. We can't base how OP a class is based on them hitting people with little to no defense.

Here is a calculation showing that the damage is still high even vs players that build Toughness. An Elementalist has 1000 Toughness which is 1888 Armor. And Elementalist with 600 more Toughness will have 2500+ Armor.

Let's calcualte the skill's damage first of a SB on Full Marauder with Beastmastery and Wilderness Survival, and in beast mode (this example has no runes/sigils included still as not all will run Scholar/Pack for more damage): Skill damage = (Weapon strength

Power

Skill Co-eff.) = (1000

2500

0.9) = 2.25M, this number will come in handy below

Now let's calculate the damage this skill will do with modifiers and on crit: Modified damage = (Skill damage

Positive modifiers)/(Target's Armor

Negative modifiers) = (2.25M

1.1 "loud whistle"

1.07 "furious strength"

1.1 "oppressive superiority

2.2 "ferocity" * 1.4 "sic'em")/2500 = 3600 damage. That's 3600 damage vs a target that has wasted 600+ potential stats into Toughness to take 3600 from 1800 range at the start of a duel. Let alone that this 3600 was made if the SB has no runes or sigils equipped, and no boons but Fury, so imagine the damage with Might and offensive runes/sigils.

And not everyone runs Toughness as that of a full misntrel support. This gets even worse when a SB runs Marksmanship with Piercing and picks you in the middle of a zerg while they are at the roof, in this case, your support has nothing to do to save you, and this is one of the reasons why pin-sniping a commander exists... I would rather a cancerous pirate ship than this.

Now this is made even worse that the SB is not made of paper but can still survive and actually has the meta build on already, so it's not a d**keye that once the gap is closed is dead.

Again your misleading people.The power of a soulbeast /ranger with onlty Marauders is 1741, not the 2500 you describe .Ferocity only dds 20% to critical CHANCE only one time the rest is added to duration. So with marauders the total crit damage is 191.67% with a 40.29% chance. Loud whistle adds 10%,Oppressive Superiority adds 10% ,Sic 'Em! adds 40%,furious strength adds 7% .So the calculation should read 1000

1741

0.9 = 1566900 with percentage modifiers of loud whistle 1.1 ,oppressive superiority 1.1 , Sic 'Em! 1.4.furious strength 1.07 against a 2500 armor the damage is 1136. Now assuming that you actually crit on that 40% chance the crit modifier Is base

1.4029

0.9167 = Base

1.286. doing the math 1566900

1.1

1.1

1.4

1.07

1.286 /2500 =1460.96 damage.This are based on the formulas provided in the wiki under damage and critical damage .

1460.96 damage not the 3500 damage you proclaim

Quite sure it's not 1741 isn't the power, even on my theorycraft on Weaver with 500 Healing Power and 500 more Toughness I can hit higher than that.

Proof: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQFADWKEsnEwMIA00BWdvg8s72t8Oi0A-jFh/gAA6AAV+1qEES9HA-w , there you go, and when out of beast mode it's 2172, but we all know we speaking of beast mode now so let's stick to the 2500 with 60% crit chance and 220% crit damage, all of this is rune-less, sigil-less and boon-less. That means that the first number we get is 2500 1000 0.9, which is 2.25M, not ~1.6M, and that's a huge difference in calculation, 30% loss of 2.25M.

Here is something from 2014 as of the change to Crit Damage: "We have also made some changes to the way in which critical damage is displayed. Right now, if you were to open up your Hero Panel, you might look at your attributes and see that your critical damage is at 50%. What this really means is that you have a 50% bonus to critical damage. All critical hits have a base damage of 150% normal attack damage. So when you have 50% critical damage bonus, your critical hit damage is raised from 150% to 200%." - Source , another would be Wiki: "Critical Damage, also known as Prowess, is a derived attribute that determines damage dealt by critical hits. The base value of the attribute is 150%, and thus a character's critical hits inflict 150% of normal damage without any bonuses." This shows that the Crit damage of 220% I mentioned before works as 70% bonus damage to the already existing 150% bonus to crit hits on all classes, thus, 220% bonus damage, therefore, multiply by 2.2 that is of the stats of the build in the link. This leads us to 2.25M 1.1 1.1 1.07 1.4 * 2.2/2500 = 3600

Now to prove that my calculation was not just done randomly, another proof. Rapdfire (2500 1000 3.75)/10 (to calculate one hit) = 937500

937500 1.1 1.1 1.07 1.4 * 2.2/2500 = 1500

And BINGO!!!

I was on 1600 Toughness and was near SM, so the bonus +100 Toughness was also there.

Now apply the same calculation to the auto attack, you should get your 3600.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Mokk.2397 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:The problem is not Rapidfire or GS skills, they are easily predictable/dodge-able. I got hit by auto attacks, 7k each, and the ranger could've had their auto-targeting up to make it even more challenging to land such high skill based auto attack from 1800 range. Just remove the damage increase based on range (it even defies physics), make them all as the lowest value of the three. Also, fix the damage modifiers, the base value of the auto attack and the co-efficient are almost the same as any other weapon, yet on SB with a 1800 range, it seems to hit the hardest.

Even still, if a ranger Auto-attack hits an average target in WvW; an average target runs some level of toughness. Most meta-comps run high levels of toughness. The auto-attack doesn't even crack 1500 damage. This is far from overpowered. We can't base how OP a class is based on them hitting people with little to no defense.

Here is a calculation showing that the damage is still high even vs players that build Toughness. An Elementalist has 1000 Toughness which is 1888 Armor. And Elementalist with 600 more Toughness will have 2500+ Armor.

Let's calcualte the skill's damage first of a SB on Full Marauder with Beastmastery and Wilderness Survival, and in beast mode (this example has no runes/sigils included still as not all will run Scholar/Pack for more damage): Skill damage = (Weapon strength

Power

Skill Co-eff.) = (1000

2500

0.9) = 2.25M, this number will come in handy below

Now let's calculate the damage this skill will do with modifiers and on crit: Modified damage = (Skill damage

Positive modifiers)/(Target's Armor

Negative modifiers) = (2.25M

1.1 "loud whistle"

1.07 "furious strength"

1.1 "oppressive superiority

2.2 "ferocity" * 1.4 "sic'em")/2500 = 3600 damage. That's 3600 damage vs a target that has wasted 600+ potential stats into Toughness to take 3600 from 1800 range at the start of a duel. Let alone that this 3600 was made if the SB has no runes or sigils equipped, and no boons but Fury, so imagine the damage with Might and offensive runes/sigils.

And not everyone runs Toughness as that of a full misntrel support. This gets even worse when a SB runs Marksmanship with Piercing and picks you in the middle of a zerg while they are at the roof, in this case, your support has nothing to do to save you, and this is one of the reasons why pin-sniping a commander exists... I would rather a cancerous pirate ship than this.

Now this is made even worse that the SB is not made of paper but can still survive and actually has the meta build on already, so it's not a d**keye that once the gap is closed is dead.

Again your misleading people.The power of a soulbeast /ranger with onlty Marauders is 1741, not the 2500 you describe.That ignores... Everything else. Power builds can reach ~3500 power. Thats before you start stacking modifiers.

No one is reaching the absurd amount of damage we're seeing with just 1741 power.

[Oxytocin.4239]

Granted i was a fresh Air ele, Marauders , but he hit me off my mount and stunned me before i could even react....