PvP match manipulation has gone too far.

dodgerrule.8739 · May 18, 2019

Arena net please do something about the match manipulation. This season has been by far the worst because of match manipulators.
I've had enough of this. Each person I find match manipulating I'm going to be recording and adding onto this thread. Apparently not much is being done about them.

This season has been filled to the brim with match manipulators since day 1. Nothing is apparently being done to prevent them.

This needs to change for the sake of the integrity of pvp.

https://youtu.be/AehiK97G2N0

Ziggityzog.7389 · May 18, 2019

Sadly anet cares not one bit
As far as they are concerned just keep buying flashy cash based pve items and stop asking questions about pvp fixing or improvements.

Master Ketsu.4569 · May 18, 2019

fyi you're supposed to blotch names out or the mods delete your post. It's an annoying rule since wintraders deserve the callout, but it's still a rule nonetheless.

But yeah I've noticed a lot more people doing blatant BS with alt accounts. Shown by the core profession + randomly going afk for no reason. Had one guardian on my team in a game where every time our team was winning he would run to the corner of the map and start spamming his abilities into the wall. It's pretty obvious that these people are setting things up on discord, has been for a long time.

Honestly just stop caring. People doing this all for the sake of some top 250 title don't understand that in the real world no one gives a kitten about you being a "top player" in gw2 PvP. Match manipulators only diminish the titles value even further. Just play for fun and your rating is what it is.

Psycoprophet.8107 · May 18, 2019

At this point in the game one would wonder and actually feel sad for people who do such things for such a meaningless tittle or rank. But if it brings them happiness in an obviously otherwise sad state of life let them be.

Crab Fear.1624 · May 18, 2019

You are more likely to get banned from the forums.

Which is sad because players like these ruin the game.

I remember when Anet was aggressive about cheating scum.

They had the Dhuumban in GW1 and they even made at least one dudes character go naked and jump off the high bridge in Divinity's Reach.

I miss THAT Anet.

Knighthonor.4061 · May 18, 2019

How does this work?

LolLookAtMyAP.8394 · May 19, 2019

That guardian has been doing this since 5 months ago.

maxwelgm.4315 · May 19, 2019

@Knighthonor.4061 said:
How does this work?

To be honest, only Anet themselves can actually infer whether or not this is manipulation or just some consistent trolling. I.e who is it favoring? Does this player carry enough matches to be more likely to match and worth more points to the person he wants to wintrade? Does he create new characters everytime? Does he also throw if he doesn't get matched with who he was supposed to at all? Does he purposely throw when matched to top players he's not wintrading with? all things that only Anet can truly assert and analyze.

The gist of it however, would be making core classes on a free account that can play ranked, and throw matches against the player you want to go up in rank. Manipulating the queue to get matched to someone might sound hard but there's actually a lot of downtime during the day and far from weekends too, perfect to keep getting matched to the same person. Sometimes the player throwing is not subtle at all but other times it's just someone trying hard to look like they're playing bad, when they clearly switch targets frantically and/or simply stop hitting and keep moving around. This can get very subtle and hard to notice, and could also be things like a thief that doesn't decap even though he knows he isn't doing nothing at mid. Again, separating in between wintrading and just plain trolling or playing badly is something only Anet can do because the actual statistics are available to them, so that they can spot which accounts are always there in matches where a side was purposely put down by a player very consistently. Not that a bad player won't put down his/her team but, it will not be as consistent as a wintrader losing to specific accounts while basically carrying other games to keep up with said accounts.

risingeagle.7813 · May 19, 2019

Numerous match manipulations as of late. This one was today. This is getting ridiculous:

LazySummer.2568 · May 19, 2019

sorry bud, need to service the reports coming from our beloved RPers asking for help on emote spamming scums first.

Curennos.9307 · May 19, 2019

I was just in a ranked match. It was two scourges, me, a rev, and another holosmith.

We didn't take one node the entire game after we lost our home cap (that I'd taken at the start). The enemy scourge went FAR (where I was) at the start, so the opponent's strongest teamfight class wasn't at mid the whole time.

Not one single node. The rev stood in the middle of the map (not at mid as in the middle node, oh no - the exact CENTER of the map) the entire game. We lost that game 100-500, with those 500 points probably PURELY the results of my and the other dude's efforts. Not a single rotation from the rev was had the entire game.

Tbh it's hard to differentiate between map manipulation and people just being absolutely horrible, but what're ya gonna do shrug.

Vancho.8750 · May 19, 2019

The end of the season is coming so the more unsavory top players are padding their rating and also knocking off other top players from their position with smurf accounts, win trading and sometimes paying off players , just like in politics. Its best to hope you don't get in the crossfire. And they should probably try to be less obvious about it since that looks like total lack of imagination, i know the games are loopsided a lot of the time but 5 500 is just lazy.

Aeolus.3615 · May 20, 2019

Can match manipulation be proved????

Why would Anet want to solve this issue???

dodgerrule.8739 · May 20, 2019

This season has been horrible with match manipulators since day 1!

Arena net do something about this otherwise pvp is about to die for real. Last year you guys made a news announcement about match manipulation and now this is happening what exactly do you do with our reports?

Ziggityzog.7389 · May 20, 2019

Looks like there are more "bans" coming maybe. Which means the match manipulators just have to take 3 months off then do it for another season lol.

Too bad a real ban and account delete isn't done to them.

Mbelch.9028 · May 23, 2019

@Crab Fear.1624 said:
You are more likely to get banned from the forums.

Which is sad because players like these ruin the game.

I remember when Anet was aggressive about cheating scum.

They had the Dhuumban in GW1 and they even made at least one dudes character go naked and jump off the high bridge in Divinity's Reach.

I miss THAT Anet.

This.

@risingeagle.7813 said:
Numerous match manipulations as of late. This one was today. This is getting ridiculous:

What on this SS screams MM to anybody? I'm not saying you're wrong, but the SS is a poor choice -- you are the one standing in base while your team is dying, and you've just rando-cuss-whispered two teammates. The heck?

Curennos.9307 · May 23, 2019

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:
You are more likely to get banned from the forums.

Which is sad because players like these ruin the game.

I remember when Anet was aggressive about cheating scum.

They had the Dhuumban in GW1 and they even made at least one dudes character go naked and jump off the high bridge in Divinity's Reach.

I miss THAT Anet.

This.

@risingeagle.7813 said:
Numerous match manipulations as of late. This one was today. This is getting ridiculous:

What on this SS screams MM to anybody? I'm not saying you're wrong, but the SS is a poor choice -- you are the one standing in base while your team is dying, and you've just rando-cuss-whispered two teammates. The heck?

There's a certain level of effectiveness for some classes that you can achieve just by rolling your face across the keyboard, or rotating through skills with minimal knowledge. It takes five minutes, maybe less, to copy a warr build and figure out when you should use skills and how to mindlessly rotate through evades, weapon skills, and how to CC into burst skills/hundred blades.

When people fail to even reach the level of effectiveness for a class you can achieve by rolling your face across the keyboard, there aren't a lot of other possibilities. I've had scrappers that die 1v1 to a warrior, necromancers that try to decap far while showing no movement utility skills slotted (?), support FBs that go everywhere BUT the teamfight, etc. I mean, it's still possible they could just be....really, really bad. But that's a very small chance, I think.

Mind you, those are all scenarios that actually happened to me while I was in g3 throughout the past week. If a match is 100-500 or below, I generally assume some shenannigans are going on.

Mbelch.9028 · May 23, 2019

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:
You are more likely to get banned from the forums.

Which is sad because players like these ruin the game.

I remember when Anet was aggressive about cheating scum.

They had the Dhuumban in GW1 and they even made at least one dudes character go naked and jump off the high bridge in Divinity's Reach.

I miss THAT Anet.

This.

@risingeagle.7813 said:
Numerous match manipulations as of late. This one was today. This is getting ridiculous:

What on this SS screams MM to anybody? I'm not saying you're wrong, but the SS is a poor choice -- you are the one standing in base while your team is dying, and you've just rando-cuss-whispered two teammates. The heck?

There's a certain level of effectiveness for some classes that you can achieve just by rolling your face across the keyboard, or rotating through skills with minimal knowledge. It takes five minutes, maybe less, to copy a warr build and figure out when you should use skills and how to mindlessly rotate through evades, weapon skills, and how to CC into burst skills/hundred blades.

When people fail to even reach the level of effectiveness for a class you can achieve by rolling your face across the keyboard, there aren't a lot of other possibilities. I've had scrappers that die 1v1 to a warrior, necromancers that try to decap far while showing no movement utility skills slotted (?), support FBs that go everywhere BUT the teamfight, etc. I mean, it's still possible they could just be....really, really bad. But that's a very small chance, I think.

Mind you, those are all scenarios that actually happened to me while I was in g3 throughout the past week. If a match is 100-500 or below, I generally assume some shenannigans are going on.

I wouldn't assume that. Blowout matches are common, and they're often decided in the first few minutes due to unskilled players.

Other notes based on your comment....
1. Scrapper should eventually lose a 1v1 to a warrior.
2. Necro can totally decap far if it's the right situation -- this situation rarely comes up, but it can be fine, especially if it's a reaper.

The Ace.9105 · May 23, 2019

@dodgerrule.8739 said:
I've had enough of this. Each person I find match manipulating I'm going to be recording and adding onto this thread. Apparently not much is being done about them.

Prepare to get an infraction point to forums or maybe a timeout. Anet doesn't take responsibility for their game and thus doesn't want to show that to the potential money sources. Nothing is being done and nothing will be done and you just have to live with that.

Trevor Boyer.6524 · May 23, 2019

Most people think that the match manipulation is all tied to win trading, but it isn't. There are still a handful of people performing serious win trading activities, those of which who seem to never get caught, suspiciously enough. But the bulk of the rando match manipulation has nothing to do with win trading or bribing for throws or anything like that. Most of the match manipulation isn't even against the TOS, which is why it has gotten so bad. The bulk of the kitten is like this:

75% of mms is nothing more than General Smurfing. Yes, it isn't even against the TOS. Players who have several alt accounts, whether paid for with expansions or f2p, these accounts are actually in their own name, therefore it is not against the TOS for them to play on those accounts. The problem lies that some player actually performs at a 1650ish rating on his main account, but he has several alt accounts that he alternates on, and only uses them on rare occasions to dink around on a class he is trying to learn "so he appear as embarrassing on his main while doing it", or to help some said given friend who plays at a much lower elo, achieve some desired bare minimal plat 1 rating. So his alt account even when being played rather actively, is never actually achieving the rating he could achieve if he tried on it. The alt accounts also sit for enormously long periods of time in between play, so whenever he logs into them, they always have large actual MMR decay, even though he actively plays all day long on his main. This creates general smurfing effects, which completely throws off the purpose of the match maker. I actually purchased and upgraded and alt account with both expansions, very specifically so I could do the same thing, with friends who play at much lower elo ratings than I do. Every time I log into this account, usually once or twice during a season, I am doing it to que with friends who want to play, that I don't want to risk playing with on my main, because they ride 1350 levels or something. But when I log into this alt, I always ride some kind of a 10 game winning streak and go on a Jason Vorhees like rampage in g2 games. When I notice the match maker catching up and updating data, I log off the account and let it go back into decay for a month or two, so we can do the same thing again next season. I've spoken to other users who do the same thing for their friends. <- This kind of thing is just General Smurfing, it isn't against the TOS, but it is in every way match manipulation, and this sort of thing is happening all day long in just about every other match we are in. This is the largest reason why matches are so kitten funky lately.
15% of mms seems to be the margin in which you run into actual Throwing, whether it is due to bribery or maybe someone on your team is on one of his alt accounts at the time, and would rather see you or someone else on your team lose rating, than gain it. In fact, there are higher rated players who own several alt accounts "In their names so it isn't against TOS", who purposely play alts up into higher ranges, specifically so they can land in games with other higher rated players that threaten the rating margins, so they can throw games on them, and knock them out of threatening ranges. They don't care about the ratings of these alts, the alts are being played to tank other people's ratings when they run into them. If the player who threatens them is on the opposing team, then they try hard to win vs. that player. This is exceedingly easy to do nowadays, because of the low population allowing the match maker to reluctantly make matches where 1700s are with and against players in g3 or sometimes even g2. This gives the alt throw phasing a lot of wiggle room to work their magic. They can play around 1500 range and get to choose when they want to play hard for a win, or throw a game, with alarming accuracy in that decision. The reason is because a placement in a match of around 1500, but actually being played by someone plat 2+, is a milestone position to be in, in terms of how much of a difference that player makes if he chooses to try hard at the actual plat 2+ rating or throw. If he tries hard, a placement in your team that was only supposed to be 1500, who suddenly begins performing at 1650+ is a huge momentum shift. But if he decides to throw, the 1500 placement isn't exactly a weak placement, the algorithm definitely expected this person to do SOMETHING, so when he throws, you're losing a 1500 role on your team, which is a detrimental 4v5 situation. In other words, if he was placed as a 1250, it wouldn't be as bad of a 4v5 situation, because the algorithm wasn't expecting him to do much anyway. 1500+ throws, are the types of throws that result in 500 to 100 situations.
10% of mms is the small margin in which actual organized Win Trading happens. It isn't often guys, but it is still around. When it is happening, it's pretty obvious and everyone should be reporting it.

The ultimate point I'm trying to make here is that like 90% of the match manipulations that are happening, is just general smurfing and alt phase throws. These players are using accounts that are purchased in their name, and they are technically doing nothing wrong. Even if you considered favoritism and throw tactics to be suspendable, how is Anet suppose to prove that any of that is happening? This is the tuff situation Anet has left us in with some of their marketing & patching decisions. Unfortunately there are only two reasonable actions at this point, if Anet cares about the state of ranked mode pvp at all:

Stop allowing f2p accounts from joining ranked ques, period. No exceptions.
Once again enable 5 man ques in ranked so that players who want to block their team from mole throws, can protect themselves.

Oh and INB4: "But I HATES 2 go against the 5 man teams!" Anyone who would respond with this, needs to seriously ask themselves: "Aren't I still going against a 5+ man team when I'm being thrown or win traded against?" Solo/Duo is an illusion and ya'all need to wake up from it.

Ziggityzog.7389 · May 23, 2019

Trevor well said. Plus that us the only way to fix it at this point is to have teams. This will discourage alt account play because it wont accomplish anything.

We need at least a solo que and leaderboard with a team que and lb.

If they really want to fix things then tie a phone number (non Google voice) to a account to play ranked.

Eddbopkins.2630 · May 24, 2019

Anet will never take action if it affects the active player base numbers. Even If the bots/manipulators rose to a 50-50 real players to bot/manipulator ratio they wont do anything.
The dont even add new game modes to keep intrest.
They dont care for the state of pvp. Otherwise we wouldnt have the same competitive mode since day one.

BadMed.3846 · May 24, 2019

I've seen people get upset and throw if teammates bad mouth them in chat. While it is manipulation, I can't really blame them. The trolls deserved pipp losses. Others surely suffer for no fault as collateral damage.

Vieux P.1238 · May 24, 2019

I just checked the Top 10 players & i ask on map chat this Question.
How is it that you get 108 wins but 13 loses only? Is that even statistically possible in this Tic tac toe type of game wich is Gw2?
Something smell's fishy. Even if you duo Q & play the meta & switch to adapt to other team comp......& that your a God player,
13 loses out of 121 matches is just not possible.

Someone plz explain it to me & try to make some sens to it.

BadMed.3846 · May 24, 2019

There are heliocopters that fly so far you know...

Khalisto.5780 · May 24, 2019

what rank is this. starting from bronze 3 now in gold 3 over 500 matches I think I've played max 5 matches I think were match manipulation or ppl really faked well. In lower ranks they are just toxic as I was, we lost mid fight, whole game is lost, afk. 1, 3, 1 in the start, afk. Teammates losing 2v1, afk. I didnt like your outfit, afk. Double thief, afk, and so on. Toxic ppl most of the time not wintraders. If you're talking about plat 2. and up you might be right.

Edge.8724 · May 24, 2019

Yeah. Pretty much the everyday thing in PvP it seems.

It happens very often to me though (even in unranked) that we lose some fights and then 1 or 2 people start insulting their own teammates and then AFK. I usually stay quiet and just try to do something in the match, but it's perfectly understandable that some players get demotivated pretty quickly and then abandon the match or literally PvP as a whole.

Unfortunately, based on Arenanet's experience with this, nothing is planned to fix this.

Azure The Heartless.3261 · May 24, 2019

@Crab Fear.1624 said:
You are more likely to get banned from the forums.

Which is sad because players like these ruin the game.

I remember when Anet was aggressive about cheating scum.

They had the Dhuumban in GW1 and they even made at least one dudes character go naked and jump off the high bridge in Divinity's Reach.

I miss THAT Anet.

+1 for this, If y'all wanna unseal Dhuum so he can can send some sweaty players to their grave I'd be fine with that. Hell, have Desmina do it.
No matter how good the game's balance gets, if players can just tilt the matches and get away for free it doesn't matter.

Azure The Heartless.3261 · May 24, 2019

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
1. Stop allowing f2p accounts from joining ranked ques, period. No exceptions.
2. Once again enable 5 man ques in ranked so that players who want to block their team from mole throws, can protect themselves.

Agreed.

Oh and INB4: "But I HATES 2 go against the 5 man teams!" Anyone who would respond with this, needs to seriously ask themselves: "Aren't I still going against a 5+ man team when I'm being thrown or win traded against?" Solo/Duo is an illusion and ya'all need to wake up from it.

Doubly so. There was a point where I was like "I don't wanna just get steamrolled by 5mans over and over again" but at this point, if you are any good at the game and have basic social skills/ability to maintain relationships it should be easy to pick up four other players that you know to go do some pvp. Find a guild. It's better than match manipulation.
Either that or make autos more frequent or 24/7.

zoopop.5630 · May 24, 2019

@Vieux P.1238 said:
I just checked the Top 10 players & i ask on map chat this Question.
How is it that you get 108 wins but 13 loses only? Is that even statistically possible in this Tic tac toe type of game wich is Gw2?
Something smell's fishy. Even if you duo Q & play the meta & switch to adapt to other team comp......& that your a God player,
13 loses out of 121 matches is just not possible.

Someone plz explain it to me & try to make some sens to it.

that's legit how i always looked at it lmfao but it is possible but not with that low of a lose lol. I think I remember Vans Having like 130wins-10loses and the next day after season ended he was banned with the God PvP Title lmfaooo.

melandru.3876 · May 24, 2019

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:
You are more likely to get banned from the forums.

Which is sad because players like these ruin the game.

I remember when Anet was aggressive about cheating scum.

They had the Dhuumban in GW1 and they even made at least one dudes character go naked and jump off the high bridge in Divinity's Reach.

I miss THAT Anet.

This.

@risingeagle.7813 said:
Numerous match manipulations as of late. This one was today. This is getting ridiculous:

What on this SS screams MM to anybody? I'm not saying you're wrong, but the SS is a poor choice -- you are the one standing in base while your team is dying, and you've just rando-cuss-whispered two teammates. The heck?

There's a certain level of effectiveness for some classes that you can achieve just by rolling your face across the keyboard, or rotating through skills with minimal knowledge. It takes five minutes, maybe less, to copy a warr build and figure out when you should use skills and how to mindlessly rotate through evades, weapon skills, and how to CC into burst skills/hundred blades.

When people fail to even reach the level of effectiveness for a class you can achieve by rolling your face across the keyboard, there aren't a lot of other possibilities. I've had scrappers that die 1v1 to a warrior, necromancers that try to decap far while showing no movement utility skills slotted (?), support FBs that go everywhere BUT the teamfight, etc. I mean, it's still possible they could just be....really, really bad. But that's a very small chance, I think.

Mind you, those are all scenarios that actually happened to me while I was in g3 throughout the past week. If a match is 100-500 or below, I generally assume some shenannigans are going on.

lol scrapper should die to warriors, if not your war is bad

yanniell.1236 · May 24, 2019

1) no more DuoQ;
2) a player can't face the other 9 players of his/her last match for the next 5 matches.

There you go. No more match manipulation and more diversity.

Next problem.

melandru.3876 · May 24, 2019

@yanniell.1236 said:
1) no more DuoQ;
2) a player can't face the other 9 players of his/her last match for the next 5 matches.

There you go. No more match manipulation and more diversity.

Next problem.

there you go, no more matches

pvp population on a decent level is allready not impressive to say it polite

you'd complelty gut it.
you'd need 9 different players, per match for the next 5 matches or 45 players, per 5 matches... per player.

that is 45*9, unless my math fails me

Vieux P.1238 · May 24, 2019

@melandru.3876 said:

@yanniell.1236 said:
1) no more DuoQ;
2) a player can't face the other 9 players of his/her last match for the next 5 matches.

There you go. No more match manipulation and more diversity.

Next problem.

there you go, no more matches

pvp population on a decent level is allready not impressive to say it polite

you'd complelty gut it.
you'd need 9 different players, per match for the next 5 matches or 45 players, per 5 matches... per player.

that is 45*9, unless my math fails me

Not to long ago there was a big hooblah about letting back team Q's in rank. Between the ones that want to match manipulate & the ones that already said it's been tried & it don't work. & that's why i really don't play much rank.

yanniell.1236 · May 24, 2019

@melandru.3876 said:

@yanniell.1236 said:
1) no more DuoQ;
2) a player can't face the other 9 players of his/her last match for the next 5 matches.

There you go. No more match manipulation and more diversity.

Next problem.

there you go, no more matches

pvp population on a decent level is allready not impressive to say it polite

you'd complelty gut it.
you'd need 9 different players, per match for the next 5 matches or 45 players, per 5 matches... per player.

that is 45*9, unless my math fails me

If you don't have 45 different players to play 5 matches in a row, your game is already doomed and this discussion makes no sense to begin with.

melandru.3876 · May 24, 2019

@yanniell.1236 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@yanniell.1236 said:
1) no more DuoQ;
2) a player can't face the other 9 players of his/her last match for the next 5 matches.

There you go. No more match manipulation and more diversity.

Next problem.

there you go, no more matches

pvp population on a decent level is allready not impressive to say it polite

you'd complelty gut it.
you'd need 9 different players, per match for the next 5 matches or 45 players, per 5 matches... per player.

that is 45*9, unless my math fails me

If you don't have 45 different players to play 5 matches in a row, your game is already doomed and this discussion makes no sense to begin with.

that is 45 different players, per player

you would need 5 matches with 45*9 new people before the 10 originals could be put together again

which is nowhere realistic, as i said in my first post "pvp population on a decent level is allready not impressive to say it polite"

keyword: decent, everything under plat 2 is not decent

Stand The Wall.6987 · May 24, 2019

it would be nice if there was a 1 account per credit card type deal, that would at least help somewhat.

apharma.3741 · May 24, 2019

This thread will probably get deleted as mine did. It's clear ANet intends to sweep it under the rug as all their players choose to leave because they keep pandering.

praqtos.9035 · May 24, 2019

@apharma.3741 said:
This thread will probably get deleted as mine did. It's clear ANet intends to sweep it under the rug as all their players choose to leave because they keep pandering.

RIP your thread. Thats so pathetic from Anet. Cant/dont care about bots. Dont care about wintraders . All they care for is CONTENT-SHOP

Ziggityzog.7389 · May 24, 2019

@praqtos.9035 said:

@apharma.3741 said:
This thread will probably get deleted as mine did. It's clear ANet intends to sweep it under the rug as all their players choose to leave because they keep pandering.

RIP your thread. Thats so pathetic from Anet. Cant/dont care about bots. Dont care about wintraders . All they care for is CONTENT-SHOP

That's sad that after proof of upper level match manipulation it got taken down. It's not like its unknown that this is the wintrade wars lol.

RedShark.9548 · May 25, 2019

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:
You are more likely to get banned from the forums.

Which is sad because players like these ruin the game.

I remember when Anet was aggressive about cheating scum.

They had the Dhuumban in GW1 and they even made at least one dudes character go naked and jump off the high bridge in Divinity's Reach.

I miss THAT Anet.

This.

@risingeagle.7813 said:
Numerous match manipulations as of late. This one was today. This is getting ridiculous:

What on this SS screams MM to anybody? I'm not saying you're wrong, but the SS is a poor choice -- you are the one standing in base while your team is dying, and you've just rando-cuss-whispered two teammates. The heck?

There's a certain level of effectiveness for some classes that you can achieve just by rolling your face across the keyboard, or rotating through skills with minimal knowledge. It takes five minutes, maybe less, to copy a warr build and figure out when you should use skills and how to mindlessly rotate through evades, weapon skills, and how to CC into burst skills/hundred blades.

When people fail to even reach the level of effectiveness for a class you can achieve by rolling your face across the keyboard, there aren't a lot of other possibilities. I've had scrappers that die 1v1 to a warrior, necromancers that try to decap far while showing no movement utility skills slotted (?), support FBs that go everywhere BUT the teamfight, etc. I mean, it's still possible they could just be....really, really bad. But that's a very small chance, I think.

Mind you, those are all scenarios that actually happened to me while I was in g3 throughout the past week. If a match is 100-500 or below, I generally assume some shenannigans are going on.

How can you at one hand say that warrior is so kitten easy to learn that it facerolls everyone, and on the other hand say that its hard to lose as a scrapper against a warrior? It doesnt make sense buddy, just pointing that out

Trevor Boyer.6524 · May 25, 2019

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@yanniell.1236 said:
1) no more DuoQ;
2) a player can't face the other 9 players of his/her last match for the next 5 matches.

There you go. No more match manipulation and more diversity.

Next problem.

there you go, no more matches

pvp population on a decent level is allready not impressive to say it polite

you'd complelty gut it.
you'd need 9 different players, per match for the next 5 matches or 45 players, per 5 matches... per player.

that is 45*9, unless my math fails me

Not to long ago there was a big hooblah about letting back team Q's in rank. Between the ones that want to match manipulate & the ones that already said it's been tried & it don't work. & that's why i really don't play much rank.

The funny thing is that despite every player in the game using LFG for Dungeons, Fractals, Raids, Meta Trains, Achievements, and Automated Tournaments, Arenanet seems to believe that players wouldn't be capable of or want to use LFG for ranked exactly in the same way that they do for everything else? I mean they added a "join party" option for the players that were just in your match for a reason right?

I dunno seems haphazard or fishy to me at the best.

Vieux P.1238 · May 25, 2019

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@yanniell.1236 said:
1) no more DuoQ;
2) a player can't face the other 9 players of his/her last match for the next 5 matches.

There you go. No more match manipulation and more diversity.

Next problem.

there you go, no more matches

pvp population on a decent level is allready not impressive to say it polite

you'd complelty gut it.
you'd need 9 different players, per match for the next 5 matches or 45 players, per 5 matches... per player.

that is 45*9, unless my math fails me

Not to long ago there was a big hooblah about letting back team Q's in rank. Between the ones that want to match manipulate & the ones that already said it's been tried & it don't work. & that's why i really don't play much rank.

The funny thing is that despite every player in the game using LFG for Dungeons, Fractals, Raids, Meta Trains, Achievements, and Automated Tournaments, Arenanet seems to believe that players wouldn't be capable of or want to use LFG for ranked exactly in the same way that they do for everything else? I mean they added a "join party" option for the players that were just in your match for a reason right?

I dunno seems haphazard or fishy to me at the best.

Point is Team Q is easy to match manipulate. Was done before & still is now with duo Q's. So stop asking Anet for 5 team Q's or any of it. At least until ...

Trevor Boyer.6524 · May 25, 2019

@Khalisto.5780 said:
what rank is this. starting from bronze 3 now in gold 3 over 500 matches I think I've played max 5 matches I think were match manipulation or ppl really faked well. In lower ranks they are just toxic as I was, we lost mid fight, whole game is lost, afk. 1, 3, 1 in the start, afk. Teammates losing 2v1, afk. I didnt like your outfit, afk. Double thief, afk, and so on. Toxic ppl most of the time not wintraders. If you're talking about plat 2. and up you might be right.

You're seeing it, you've probably just not played long enough to able to recognize what it is you're seeing.

Unfortunately for newer players unto the scene, they have no ability to compare & contrast the monkey business going on nowadays vs. say 4 years ago, when population was much higher, f2p wasn't a thing, fewer players even knew how to perform win trading, and the ratio of match manipulations vs. clean matches was like 1/20 instead of 1/3. If you had played in year 1, 2, or 3 as example, you would be able to remember what a real match looks like, when players are actually trying hard, when everyone is on their main accounts, no one is smurfing, and no one is win trading or throwing for some misc. reason. The closest thing I can example to you, to explain what that felt like, is if you go to play in an AT now. If you play in ATs, even with an all gold 2 team, you'll see that the flow of the matches is NEVER suspicious.

Let me further example this so you have a better idea of how to spot obvious match manipulation.

In ATs matches generally flow like this. Remember that ATs are 5 man chosen teams, and the chances are virtually 0% for a match manipulation to happen:

Two teams are facing off and one team seems to be dominant after the initial split first rotation. Even though the Blue team knows it's going to lose, they still try hard in hopes that maybe the Red team might fumble a rotation and allow them a comeback. The match ends something like 500 to 400. But the "feel" of the mechanical skills of the players on both teams was consistent through the entire match. There were no moments where "ALL OF A SUDDEN The Red team comes back from the grave at 200 to 400 and magically begins mechanically outplaying the Blue team as if they suddenly pokemon like evolved from gold 1 players into plat 2+ players mid game and began dominating with a triple cap rampage that couldn't be broken." or "All of a sudden, some guy that was clearly outplaying everyone with superior mechanical combat skills, begins to walk onto nodes only spamming 1 and never using his heal, as if he were wanting the other team to farm him."
Sometimes a comeback can happen in an AT, but when it does, it isn't from bad players who were getting crunched mechanically in combat, suddenly pokemon evolving into plat 3 players half way through the match. Real comebacks in real matches, happen from clutch rotations or one team secures an important objective, or very rarely the dominant team makes a serious fumble or someone IRL actually DCs. The point being is that player's mechanical combat skill factors remain steady through the entire match.
Sometimes in ATs, the match is a slaughter. You get a Monthly AT worthy team going against some guys who just joined to get 5g. The match is going to end up being 500 to 0 or maybe 500 to 40 or something if the strong team is getting lazy and doing funny things instead of taking the match seriously. The point being is that during these kinds of matches, the mechanical skill factors of the players on each team remain exactly the same through the entire match as they were in the beginning.

In Unranked, it is solo or duo or trio or quad or 5 man, yes. But there is no competitive incentive to perform match manipulations. The only incentive to perform a match manipulation in Unranked, is if you wanted to for some reason attempt to grind reward tracks? I assure you, no one is going out of their way to form organized win trading to grind reward tracks. If a person really wanted to grind loot, there are far far more lucrative places to do that in Guild Wars 2. Unranked matches flow like this:

You get some serious trollol builds joining in Unranked. People just having fun, or people practicing new things, doesn't matter. The point being is that in Unranked matches it generally has the same type of flow as AT matches. In fact it is so similar, that there is no reason but to make one asterisk here. The idea to keep in mind is that players are either winning or they are losing, and comebacks are rare, and they happen through clutch plays, not sudden evolvement or de-evolution of player's mechanical skill values. The players you are with or against are staying the same skill level, visually, clearly, tangibly when you fight them. You can tell people are actually trying at their actual skill levels.

Old matches in Ranked from times past, when the population was high. They flowed like this:

Everything exampled in the above was even MORE true 4+ years ago. Now we have various teams of various skill levels going against each other in ATs, or in Unranked the hidden MMRs which function basically just like Ranked, we have 1700 level Unrankers getting teamed with and against 1400s or maybe even lower during off peak hours. But in matches 4+ years ago, those gaps in skill margins were less than half of what they are now. You had 1700s getting put with and against 1800s and maybe 1650s. Back then the 1750s would complain if they had a 1650 on their team ^^ Point being is that the games were actually quite a bit more balance than they are now. It was rare to see 500 to 100 blowouts or even 500 to 250 type situations. Generally about 8/10 matches back then looked more like 500 to 400. Again, it was even MORE true back then, about how you could clearly see the level in which every play was playing at, and that it did not suddenly change halfway through a match. The match quality was just better back then.

Matches in Ranked now.... post S6, when the beans got spilled. What happened was that during S6, a particular popular streamer was suspended for win trading.
Then some particular old pro players were suspended for other things. And then people began talking on Reddit & The Official Forum, about what exactly was win trading, and how were they doing it? Long story short, during S6, so much discussion was perked about this, that everyone learned how to do it. And by S7, when these people who were suspended or banned were allowed to come back and keep doing it while remaining safe while doing it with new types of methods, other players also saw how to do it safely, and that Arenanet either could not prove what they were doing, or possibly didn't care at all that it was happening. Here is how matches flow in Ranked today:

On an average day, about half of your matches will be clean. About half of your matches will look and feel like the matches I had described in previous examples, where there are no sudden evolutions or de-evolutions of player skill factors. The other half of your matches... well...
About 1/4th of your matches may feel generally lopsided the entire game, as if the algorithm were targeting you to make you lose. The game starts and you're immediately met with the realization that your team is going to lose after the initial split. Your team wipes 3v3 at mid in a little less than 20s. Your guy who pushed far didn't even hold long, got chopped nearly as fast as the guys at mid, and now you're standing at home finishing the cap, figuring out how you're going to survive and regroup from the snowball. You end up losing the match 250 to 500. Nothing looked suspicious so to say, but the match just felt like improper placement. Sometimes in those 1/4th of your matches you are the one who gets on the winning team of 500 to 250. But in these 1/4th of games, there is still no real sudden evolution or de-evolution of player mechanical skills. <- This is all effects of low population and general smurfing, players who play at plat 2+ levels who are on alts that are being placed in teams at 1400 levels. This is how these kind of games happen. No one is necessarily throwing or win trading.
The other 1/4th of your matches.. are completely botched and make no sense at all. Seriously at least 1/4th of Ranked games are like this nowadays.. You start off the match and your team is just smashing the other team. You end up with this lead of 350 to 150, and you're thinking: "Ok this is an easy match, we're going to win." You can clearly see that your team is mechanically outplaying the other team. As if your team were stacked with plat 2s and the other team had gold 2s. And then ALL OF A SUDDEN, you have a player or two on your team just randomly begin to play like complete utter garbage. They somehow were winning 1v2s halfway through the game, repeatedly, with clearly visually superior mechanical skills, but then devolve into a player who seemingly doesn't know his class, or role, or even where his buttons are. <- That is not normal, and that is not something we've seen like this in the previous 5 or 6 years of the game. This is a phenomenon that began trending after the secrets of win trading and alt throwing were unleashed into the community. I remember once I was on the losing team, and I wasn't even getting mad, but I was getting very serious about trying to give rotational intel into the /t chat, I was trying hard to get them to win. Then this guy from our team on an account I had never once seen before, whispers me and says: "We're good, just watch." and then ALL OFF A SUDDEN, the other team just sort of stopped trying. A couple of their players began doing very stupid things. Things that were too stupid to be real. My team was able to come back from the grave from like a 200 point difference and win the game. It didn't happen from a clutch play or rotation, or securing a clutch objective. It happened because the other team suddenly devolved into players who didn't know their class, job roles, or even where their buttons where. That's just one example of many many others I could give you, where there was a moment that I knew I was caught in the middle of some kind of a win trade or throw.

So yeah, for those of you who weren't around in earlier years or who don't play ATs, to be able to see what real matches look like and feel like vs. the kitten we have going on in Ranked today, there is the difference for you, laid out for your enjoyment & recognition.

Trevor Boyer.6524 · May 25, 2019

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@yanniell.1236 said:
1) no more DuoQ;
2) a player can't face the other 9 players of his/her last match for the next 5 matches.

There you go. No more match manipulation and more diversity.

Next problem.

there you go, no more matches

pvp population on a decent level is allready not impressive to say it polite

you'd complelty gut it.
you'd need 9 different players, per match for the next 5 matches or 45 players, per 5 matches... per player.

that is 45*9, unless my math fails me

Not to long ago there was a big hooblah about letting back team Q's in rank. Between the ones that want to match manipulate & the ones that already said it's been tried & it don't work. & that's why i really don't play much rank.

The funny thing is that despite every player in the game using LFG for Dungeons, Fractals, Raids, Meta Trains, Achievements, and Automated Tournaments, Arenanet seems to believe that players wouldn't be capable of or want to use LFG for ranked exactly in the same way that they do for everything else? I mean they added a "join party" option for the players that were just in your match for a reason right?

I dunno seems haphazard or fishy to me at the best.

Point is Team Q is easy to match manipulate. Was done before & still is now with duo Q's. So stop asking Anet for 5 team Q's or any of it. At least until ...

Please explain to me how someone is going to match manipulate my team of 5 players whom I know I can trust.

Vieux P.1238 · May 25, 2019

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@yanniell.1236 said:
1) no more DuoQ;
2) a player can't face the other 9 players of his/her last match for the next 5 matches.

There you go. No more match manipulation and more diversity.

Next problem.

there you go, no more matches

pvp population on a decent level is allready not impressive to say it polite

you'd complelty gut it.
you'd need 9 different players, per match for the next 5 matches or 45 players, per 5 matches... per player.

that is 45*9, unless my math fails me

Not to long ago there was a big hooblah about letting back team Q's in rank. Between the ones that want to match manipulate & the ones that already said it's been tried & it don't work. & that's why i really don't play much rank.

The funny thing is that despite every player in the game using LFG for Dungeons, Fractals, Raids, Meta Trains, Achievements, and Automated Tournaments, Arenanet seems to believe that players wouldn't be capable of or want to use LFG for ranked exactly in the same way that they do for everything else? I mean they added a "join party" option for the players that were just in your match for a reason right?

I dunno seems haphazard or fishy to me at the best.

Point is Team Q is easy to match manipulate. Was done before & still is now with duo Q's. So stop asking Anet for 5 team Q's or any of it. At least until ...

Please explain to me how someone is going to match manipulate my team of 5 players whom I know I can trust.

No what your thinking of matchmanipulation is windtrading. I'm talking about stacking 5 man team Q's with friends (over advantage) vs team made of pugs in Rank. In the old day's It got to be such a problem that Anet removed Team Q's from rank. I feel i don't need to explain why. I think your smart anoth to understand why.

Vancho.8750 · May 25, 2019

@Trevor Boyer.6524 That explanation deserves its own thread. This hits exactly whats going on, you missed only the win trade day where all matches are like your last point, people are not even trying to hide it anymore. I think the best rating to play is around g2 g3 where most of the population is and only sometimes you get the smurfs since there are more people playing in that range. In the end of G3 and up you start seeing the loop sided kitten and sometimes it feels like your team somehow is lower tier players vs full AT team.
They should make the switch to 2v2 and 3v3 for pvp since you have to get in as a group and deathmatch, it is simple and effective pvp mode, people just want to beat each other and have fun with it, its so painful cause they showed that it can be done but they dropped it and added reworks to conquest maps, why are they still pushing conquest.

apharma.3741 · May 25, 2019

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@apharma.3741 said:
This thread will probably get deleted as mine did. It's clear ANet intends to sweep it under the rug as all their players choose to leave because they keep pandering.

RIP your thread. Thats so pathetic from Anet. Cant/dont care about bots. Dont care about wintraders . All they care for is CONTENT-SHOP

That's sad that after proof of upper level match manipulation it got taken down. It's not like its unknown that this is the wintrade wars lol.

It's not just that, it's that there's very likely ToS violation going on which has had many people outright banned for playing on someone else's account to earn something they shouldn't get. Anyway that's all I'll say about it as I don't want to give the mods fuel to the fire.

Trevor Boyer.6524 · May 25, 2019

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@melandru.3876 said:

@yanniell.1236 said:
1) no more DuoQ;
2) a player can't face the other 9 players of his/her last match for the next 5 matches.

There you go. No more match manipulation and more diversity.

Next problem.

there you go, no more matches

pvp population on a decent level is allready not impressive to say it polite

you'd complelty gut it.
you'd need 9 different players, per match for the next 5 matches or 45 players, per 5 matches... per player.

that is 45*9, unless my math fails me

Not to long ago there was a big hooblah about letting back team Q's in rank. Between the ones that want to match manipulate & the ones that already said it's been tried & it don't work. & that's why i really don't play much rank.

The funny thing is that despite every player in the game using LFG for Dungeons, Fractals, Raids, Meta Trains, Achievements, and Automated Tournaments, Arenanet seems to believe that players wouldn't be capable of or want to use LFG for ranked exactly in the same way that they do for everything else? I mean they added a "join party" option for the players that were just in your match for a reason right?

I dunno seems haphazard or fishy to me at the best.

Point is Team Q is easy to match manipulate. Was done before & still is now with duo Q's. So stop asking Anet for 5 team Q's or any of it. At least until ...

Please explain to me how someone is going to match manipulate my team of 5 players whom I know I can trust.

No what your thinking of matchmanipulation is windtrading. I'm talking about stacking 5 man team Q's with friends (over advantage) vs team made of pugs in Rank. In the old day's It got to be such a problem that Anet removed Team Q's from rank. I feel i don't need to explain why. I think your smart anoth to understand why.

What you're talking about isn't match manipulation my friend, it is simply a team of better players winning.

Which is how the game is supposed to be.

Curennos.9307 · May 25, 2019

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@Mbelch.9028 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:
You are more likely to get banned from the forums.

Which is sad because players like these ruin the game.

I remember when Anet was aggressive about cheating scum.

They had the Dhuumban in GW1 and they even made at least one dudes character go naked and jump off the high bridge in Divinity's Reach.

I miss THAT Anet.

This.

@risingeagle.7813 said:
Numerous match manipulations as of late. This one was today. This is getting ridiculous:

What on this SS screams MM to anybody? I'm not saying you're wrong, but the SS is a poor choice -- you are the one standing in base while your team is dying, and you've just rando-cuss-whispered two teammates. The heck?

There's a certain level of effectiveness for some classes that you can achieve just by rolling your face across the keyboard, or rotating through skills with minimal knowledge. It takes five minutes, maybe less, to copy a warr build and figure out when you should use skills and how to mindlessly rotate through evades, weapon skills, and how to CC into burst skills/hundred blades.

When people fail to even reach the level of effectiveness for a class you can achieve by rolling your face across the keyboard, there aren't a lot of other possibilities. I've had scrappers that die 1v1 to a warrior, necromancers that try to decap far while showing no movement utility skills slotted (?), support FBs that go everywhere BUT the teamfight, etc. I mean, it's still possible they could just be....really, really bad. But that's a very small chance, I think.

Mind you, those are all scenarios that actually happened to me while I was in g3 throughout the past week. If a match is 100-500 or below, I generally assume some shenannigans are going on.

How can you at one hand say that warrior is so kitten easy to learn that it facerolls everyone, and on the other hand say that its hard to lose as a scrapper against a warrior? It doesnt make sense buddy, just pointing that out

No, you're strawmanning. Don't do that.

You're adding on an 'everyone'. I made no reference to the warrior facerolling anyone - rather, their level of expected effectiveness even if the player has only picked up the class recently.

Faux Play.6104 · May 25, 2019

The only one that is likely to get banned for throwing matches is the one that posts photos of them on the form. It is like steroids in baseball in the 90s/00s. There may be a rule against it, and a report feature but no one looks at it. They have slapped the wrist of a few people's alts that are high on the leaderboard, but if you afk most of your matches in gold/silver nothing will happen.

PvP match manipulation has gone too far.

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