It's time to start banning addons and 3rd party tools — Guild Wars 2 Forums

It's time to start banning addons and 3rd party tools

Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭
edited May 19, 2019 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

The amount of addons for this game is getting overboard, and they offer a huge advantage over people using the base game. Either officially support addons via an in game UI with a trusted store like the google store/apple store, or start to ban these.

There's addons that:
Help you finish map completion for core tyria in less than half the time.
Make it easier to mount via radial menus.(Should be in the base game)
Damage meters(these are fine tbh though)
Markers on the map for gather routes(should be base in the game).
As well as many others I don't even know about.

If you continue to ignore them, they will only get more and more complex and automated and there will be so many of them you won't be able to keep track. It will become standard practice to use tons of these for users despite them being "against the rules" and people who play legit will be left behind or mocked for not using them.

It's time to crack down on these 3rd party tools that are against the TOS. Ban all of them, and put any good useful ones you deem appropiate into your base game.

Tagged:
<13

Comments

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What he Said ^

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Samnang.1879Samnang.1879 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i wonder if Na is a lawyer irl

    Anet: give us in-game customizable human NPC companion please
    Please, no more balance changes, or at least reset our gears so we don't have to waste gold changing gears every time.
    Please have option to not receive bloodstone dusts, empyreal fragments, dragonite etc

  • Vincenzo.3145Vincenzo.3145 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019

    Found the salty fractal pug that got kicked for not pulling their weight.

    Jokes aside, I don't use addons. But I don't see a problem with other people using them. ArcDPS aside which is essential for optimizing how you play, just about every other addons out there is merely QoL or simply overlays onto your screen what anyone else can simply /wiki

    Stop acting as though what you dislike is somehow a problem for everyone. It's fair to have an opinion about addons. But it's not fair to slander the existence of addons and those who use them.

    The addons/tools that ARE unfair and fly against ToS is something anet already bans for. For example, it's okay to have a program that launches multiple accounts and makes multiboxing easier. It is not okay to control them all simultaneously through a problem that transmits keystrokes to each instance of GW2.

  • archmagus.7249archmagus.7249 Member ✭✭✭

    @Samuel.4812 said:
    None of the add-ons you mentioned affect competitive modes.

    Anything that effects pvp or wvw should be banned but other than that the guy two posts up has it all down.

    TacO does have markers for the various objectives, RI counter, and who controls it. But you see EVERY objective on the map which can make your screen cluttered.

  • Feothyr.6072Feothyr.6072 Member ✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    Toxicity bred from some players who use 3rd party tools to check other peoples stats, gear, damage etc and then criticize them for not playing upto "thier level" and maxing their DPS rotations etc when for the most part the players being attacked are only playing for fun and don't care about hitting the expected benchmarks set by the toxic players. (I have personally been on the reciving end of this testing a new build in dungeon content.. seriously.. a DPS elitist in dungeon content.)

    Thank you. I agree. Enabling toxic behaviour shouldn't be allowed.

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Of course, the OP is 'fine' with DPS meters.

  • Cristalyan.5728Cristalyan.5728 Member ✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    tl;dr there's nothing to see here. Plug-ins, overlays, and other sorts fo 3rd party tools are here to stay. ANet's okay with this; the OP should be, too.

    Yes, the tools are here. If ANet is OK with this ?!? (btw, it is OK with a violation of it own rules), this does not mean anyone should be OK - OP included. This is the most normal thing in a normal society: to not agree with what you consider abnormal.

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    The amount of addons for this game is getting overboard,

    Is it? There are only a tiny number.

    The sheer number is not important. To break a rule ONE exception is enough. So, if ONE third party add-on works for this game, that means the OP statement is correct.
    I saw something about playing a lawyer. What about something like:
    "The Prosecutor: This man is a murderer. He killed people!
    The Defender: It is? He killed only a few!"

    they offer a huge advantage over people using the base game.

    Do they? You'd have to define "advantage" in a way that rules out faster hard drives, beefier CPUs, better internet connections, and living closer to the Amazon's servers.

    I will try: Let's suppose TWO persons playing from the same location (two twin brothers). Using the same machine for playing. And the same internet connection. Playing alternatively - one in the morning, the other in the afternoon, the same number of hours each. One is using the add-ons to find the SkyScale eggs (or to cure the Skyscales / or to gather scales). The other is not using any add-on. Who do you think will complete the collection faster?

    And, btw, mixing the third party software with the hardware architecture of a machine is not a good way of trying to combat the OP statements. Because, you know the game named GW2 has no hardware included. It is a pure piece of software.
    Did you see any complain from OP regarding the fact that other player lives closer to the Amazon servers? Or that the weather on other players country is colder and the cooling of the PC is better, this allowing a better performance? I did not.

    Either officially support addons via an in game UI with a trusted store like the google store/apple store, or start to ban these.

    A "trusted store" requires hiring people to vet the apps, for malware, for stability, for compatibility with future updates (adds on can break without a headsup from ANet) and that last means NDAs (so more legal fees). Banning requires spending more effort on detection methods, more investigations, and more appeals.

    And in the end, how does the game benefit from that?

    I think you nailed it =) ANet may have some expenses to clean the game from third party dirty. But we wrongly think they are too lazy. They are not. They care about the money much more than about the players. So, I will try to reword your last sentence:
    " And in the end, how does ANet benefit from that?"

    (should be base in the game).

    Why?

    Why not?

    despite them being "against the rules"

    They aren't "against the rules." They are "use at your own risk."
    Anyone using tools that are against the rules... those people already get suspended or banned.

    LOL? Are you sure? By this "They aren't "against the rules." They are "use at your own risk." you demolished any of your previous attempts to defend the use of the third-party software in this game =) So, ANet, by its own will and with its own approval, accepts that by using the GW2 game (its own software) with all the officially accepted add-ons puts you, your computer, your personal and professional data stored to a risk? ARE YOU SURE you wanted to write what you wrote? Usually the software putting you and your PC to a risk are called "malware". And are not considered legal software. And now we found that ANet is selling malware?

  • Cristalyan.5728Cristalyan.5728 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stalkingwolf.6035 said:
    Ban 2nd monitor too!
    and all those guides!

    srsly. where to start and where to end?
    Taco markers you use two times and you know where to run.
    Its the same as watching a guide on youtube on the 2nd monitor

    You don't understand the point of this debate. It is not about hardware. You can use as many monitors as you want. This debate is about software. Pieces of code running on your computer. And giving you a clear advantage over the players don't using them. You don't believe me? Look at your own statement:
    "Taco markers you use two times and you know where to run". And now: what about not using the markers? How will be you able to know where to run? And how long it will take to learn where to run?

    Conclusion - nobody complained about the hardware. One, two, ... ten monitors, it is up to you. Normal cooling fan, water cooling system, liquid gas cooling system - it is up to you - you will not find the way to the third egg faster in this way. Normal CPU or overclocked CPU - it is up to you.

    But third party software putting me at risk in a game sold as "safe" and giving me a clear advantage over the other players don't using it .... this is not OK.

  • Seteruss.4058Seteruss.4058 Member ✭✭✭

    I just need my templates.
    I don't care about anything else personally.

  • Vyrulisse.1246Vyrulisse.1246 Member ✭✭✭

    Tac0 markers are literally in-game advantages and cheating over those that don't have them. Especially for Adventures, Races, Holiday events and Jumping Puzzles.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    After read post I see only that:
    Save the world! Save nature ! Don't buy second monitor! Use TACO!

    Anyway topic creator don't know about API sub forum and don't understand for that purpose it done ?

    and one more:
    and about dps meter, few times I was in pt that don't use it, and I don't like that.
    How they test ? on cm100 on 66 they send each dps to kill elites 1 by 1. After that that gg.
    Think. Discuss. Kick. Take other. Again. And again. Til that moment that find that they want.
    This is real toxic and that moments can break some pug people at all. We need that ?

  • Michael.9403Michael.9403 Member ✭✭

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    What he Said ^

    you mean what she said?

  • Rukario.1695Rukario.1695 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019

    Either use them, or don't. If they were not safe, Anet would not have shown that they use them from time to time in either media posts or other; as this has been shown in the past. No I do not have a link for reference, but you can see threads about this exact debate online in multiple discussion areas.

    To cover any fringe cases, yes, they are labeled as "Use as your own risk," as you cannot cover everything. Taco and ArcDPS should be fine to use, you can use community feedback on others to get an idea of what people use and what they do not. It is entirely optional for you to add anything.

    They are allowed on the official subreddit, they are allowed to be discussed here on the forums, there is an API forum that caters to a lot of the requirements these tools make use of, and it is not against the Terms of Service. If you are asking about the Terms of Service, they are specifically targeting Botting and Hacking software. Overlays that simply augment visuals and perception do no harm to anyone.

    I do agree that prudes who use them as a means to belittle other players is bad, but they are going to do that anyway with whatever means they can. You simply block them and then you never have to hear from them again. Do not play with people you do not like; things happen when you are exposed to no one but strangers online.

    More violence, less violets I say. I'm rich you know, because I watch the ledges.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vyrulisse.1246 said:
    Tac0 markers are literally in-game advantages and cheating over those that don't have them. Especially for Adventures, Races, Holiday events and Jumping Puzzles.

    Yeah... no. They give you visuals of where you have to go. That is information you can gather yourself by just playing and using your eyes and brain. Isn't half the fun figuring stuff out yourself? They skip out on that. Either way, how is it "cheating over those that don't have them" if they have the same opportunity to just download and run it themselves? Who is getting cheated here? It harms nobody in any direct way.

    And since I saw it brought up elsewhere: Even in PvP those markers are rather pointless, because at the moment you learned that information yourself you gain absolutely nothing from having them. Sure, a nice reminder that you can jump up certain spots, but that is nothing but a visual representation of something you can already know anyway.

    Bite me.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Help you finish map completion for core tyria in less than half the time.

    That's up to people whether they want to spoil the fun of real exploration and rush through. I am against it, but who am I to tell others what's the most fun way to play the game?

    Make it easier to mount via radial menus.(Should be in the base game)

    Agreed.

    Damage meters(these are fine tbh though)

    Well, I don't completely agree. While I think that there are a lot of players who need to improve their builds and equipment to deal decent damage, exact numbers can be too restrictive.

    Markers on the map for gather routes(should be base in the game).

    No, they should absolutely not be in the game. Markers yes, and they are, but no easy-route indicators. Seriously, you are against help for map completion but support this?

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019

    Are these, you know, allowed to be used? Are they in any conflict with any of ANET TOS (because as far as I know they are ok)? If they are not, what is the problem? They will give "disadvantage" only to players that has chosen not to use them. I mean, if they want they can use them.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the amount of addons people made for GW2 is nothing compared to other games, especially WoW, there are currently 872 pages on curse, 20 addons per page, so there's currently 17,440 WoW addons listed on curse, thousands more on other websites

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I really find TACO addon extremely good and useful, as shown in a Wooden Potato video. Seems like the addon is safe and legal.

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:
    You can't pick and choose. Ban one then ban them all.

    Or what they want to allow, put it in the game.

    Can't? It has already happened.

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    How do any of these affect the way you play the game if you're not using them?

    Unfair advantage in the sense that other people can exploit faster node runs because they essentially have an overlay that shows them exactly where they are and the fastest path to them where as others have to run around aimlessly until they find them all.

    Toxicity bred from some players who use 3rd party tools to check other peoples stats, gear, damage etc and then criticize them for not playing upto "thier level" and maxing their DPS rotations etc when for the most part the players being attacked are only playing for fun and don't care about hitting the expected benchmarks set by the toxic players. (I have personally been on the reciving end of this testing a new build in dungeon content.. seriously.. a DPS elitist in dungeon content.)

    Yet the OP claims DPS meters are okay.
    On the other hand those behavior has existed DPS meters existed. Which is pretty solid proof that removing it would not solve this supposed problem.

    Why are you try to find scapegoats and make excuses for awful people behaving badly? Put the blame where it belongs, on those people.

  • Yamazuki.6073Yamazuki.6073 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:
    You don't understand the point of this debate. It is not about hardware. You can use as many monitors as you want. This debate is about software.

    The point in using two monitors is to use your web browser (3rd party software) to view information on a second monitor (or even a phone/tablet). In the end, people with multiple screens are still using software to gain an advantage. There are other third party software that also provide an advantage, Discord (and other voice chats). Are you going to suggest we start banning people who dares to run any software that isn't base Windows 10 while GW2 is running?

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:
    LOL? Are you sure? By this "They aren't "against the rules." They are "use at your own risk."

    It is a use at your own risk due to the fact game updates tend to cause issues with add-ons, and when your client starts crashing after an update due to the add-on you assume full responsibility and will fix it yourself, rather than either submitting a thread on forums asking for ArenaNets help, or sending in a ticket. Even if there was an official way to have add-ons like Steam does, it is still a use at your own risk and you fix the issues yourself.

  • Cristalyan.5728Cristalyan.5728 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yamazuki.6073 said:

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:
    You don't understand the point of this debate. It is not about hardware. You can use as many monitors as you want. This debate is about software.

    The point in using two monitors is to use your web browser (3rd party software) to view information on a second monitor (or even a phone/tablet). In the end, people with multiple screens are still using software to gain an advantage. There are other third party software that also provide an advantage, Discord (and other voice chats). Are you going to suggest we start banning people who dares to run any software that isn't base Windows 10 while GW2 is running?

    Well, that 3 party software (the browser) is not interfering with your game in any way. Or you are using a browser who can read your DPS, your boon uptime and it can place you markers on the GW2 maps?
    ANet cannot force you to not use a software outside of the game. This is the reaswon they were so careful to state what kind of software interactions are not allowed inside GW2. And no, we have now GW2 running on Linux. And also running on MAC. So, I don't understand what is your point: the Operating system allows you to run GW2. Not vice-versao. And, if you read the EULA and the terms of use for GW2, you will se that nowhere Anet states that GW2 can run without an OS and using an OS is a bannable offense. How can Win or Linux place markers on your GW2 maps? How can the OS to read and to give you a readable information about the DPS/boons/conditions?

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:
    LOL? Are you sure? By this "They aren't "against the rules." They are "use at your own risk."

    It is a use at your own risk due to the fact game updates tend to cause issues with add-ons, and when your client starts crashing after an update due to the add-on you assume full responsibility and will fix it yourself, rather than either submitting a thread on forums asking for ArenaNets help, or sending in a ticket. Even if there was an official way to have add-ons like Steam does, it is still a use at your own risk and you fix the issues yourself.

    I will start from this: "and when your client starts crashing after an update due to the add-on you assume full responsibility and will fix it yourself".

    Stop talking nonsense, please. Even if you have the knowledge to fix the client, you may be acused by modifying the software files of the game and you may be banned. So, you don't fix the client. In the worst case you flood the creator of the add-on with complains and he will update the add-on to fit the game. Not even him will "fix" the client to fit his add-on. And you will play 1-2 days until the add-on is patched to use it again.

    Still, the risk is not limited to client crashes. The way it is stated it covers A LOT more situations.

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The mount menu should be bought and added to the game btw.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    How do any of these affect the way you play the game if you're not using them?

    Unfair advantage in the sense that other people can exploit faster node runs because they essentially have an overlay that shows them exactly where they are and the fastest path to them where as others have to run around aimlessly until they find them all.

    Toxicity bred from some players who use 3rd party tools to check other peoples stats, gear, damage etc and then criticize them for not playing upto "thier level" and maxing their DPS rotations etc when for the most part the players being attacked are only playing for fun and don't care about hitting the expected benchmarks set by the toxic players. (I have personally been on the reciving end of this testing a new build in dungeon content.. seriously.. a DPS elitist in dungeon content.)

    Those were the first 2 that came to mind.. there's probably other good reasons.
    For the most part though I agree with those saying that some of these 3rd party mods are pretty good QOL improvements and they should be implimented into the game.
    The mount wheel thing for example is a great QOL idea.

    With that logic having 2 screens instead of 1 is also an unfair advantage. It's already mentioned in one of the comments on top, among some other "advantages".

    If people don't want to be blamed about not pulling their weight/beeing too toxic, maybe they should pick lfg groups suited to their playstyle (that goes for both sides). It doesn't matter if it's a story instance or fractal 100 cm, same rules apply everywhere, don't join where you don't belong and you'll have much better time.

    If those features were easy to implement, we'd have them already, but as it seems, making overlays is much easier and/or faster.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Stalkingwolf.6035Stalkingwolf.6035 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    The mount menu should be bought and added to the game btw.

    yes it would help players who cant temember shortcuts. i'm faster with only shortcuts.
    imo one of the biggest problem of gw2. the lack of good UI. It looks good and thats it.

    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster

  • finkle.9513finkle.9513 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree with the OP
    Options:

    1. Fully Support
    2. Ban them, they are not allowed.

    Anet should choose and not sit on the fence... they have a nasty habit of this!

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019

    Nothing that you say "should be in the base game" needs to be in the base game and id argue not even build templates need to be in the base game.

    Addons are there to enhance the game in aspects that would simply take dev resources and time to do so baseline.

    Its is far more beneficial to have ppl in communication with anet create such tools and let anet do more of what matters, content, balance etc.

    The comment about them offering advantage to those using them is also incredibly stupid. Yes they do make life easier but thats like saying ppl shouldnt have acess to internet because some ppl dont. Obv diff examples and in the case of internet its not a FREE perk (like all the addons have been so far btw) but it only serves to show the flaw within this mindset.

    You're allowed to search and ask if Anet allows the use of these addons but if you DONT want to interact with them its not up to you to say that nobody else should either.

    The addons are here and are free, use them or not, idc, dont tell me tho what i can and cannot use (obv this excludes stuff like cheat software, actual cheat software, spare me the "having node markers is cheating" arguement when you push for this feature to be in the base game).

    Also, "the amount is getting overboard" are you for real? We have like what? 5 addons? Maybe 4 (do graphical enhancing software counts?) compaired to modding and addon scenes of other mmos how is this overboard? And the comment about managing them being a pain down the line when we get more and more. OP, are you familiar with moding and addon managment in games where their number is way way bigger than that of gw2? How do you think they handle things over there?

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feothyr.6072 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    Toxicity bred from some players who use 3rd party tools to check other peoples stats, gear, damage etc and then criticize them for not playing upto "thier level" and maxing their DPS rotations etc when for the most part the players being attacked are only playing for fun and don't care about hitting the expected benchmarks set by the toxic players. (I have personally been on the reciving end of this testing a new build in dungeon content.. seriously.. a DPS elitist in dungeon content.)

    Thank you. I agree. Enabling toxic behaviour shouldn't be allowed.

    Then why did they make an MMO?

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kermq.6258 said:

    .

    The mount wheel thing for example is a great QOL idea.

    Why you need a mount wheel i just did bind all my mounts to numpad seems i should be now banned by OP becuse i start my mounts even faster then choosing from a wheel :D and thats advantage against others that didnt do it :bleep_bloop:

    Macro keys for me but I only got 6 of them and now there's 7 mounts.
    Considering how many have been added in such a short time overall the wheel would still be a benefit in the long run.

  • kermq.6258kermq.6258 Member ✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @kermq.6258 said:

    .

    The mount wheel thing for example is a great QOL idea.

    Why you need a mount wheel i just did bind all my mounts to numpad seems i should be now banned by OP becuse i start my mounts even faster then choosing from a wheel :D and thats advantage against others that didnt do it :bleep_bloop:

    Macro keys for me but I only got 6 of them and now there's 7 mounts.
    Considering how many have been added in such a short time overall the wheel would still be a benefit in the long run.

    i got 10 number keys on numpad and mounts starts from 0(griffon) and rest are in order you did get them so 1-raptor 2-springer and so on. But by the OP logic i should be baned becuse i have advantage on others because i start my mounts much faster :D

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Vyrulisse.1246 said:
    Tac0 markers are literally in-game advantages and cheating over those that don't have them. Especially for Adventures, Races, Holiday events and Jumping Puzzles.

    But the thing is none of those activities are competitive events so it doesn't matter if someone else has an advantage over me. The only exception I can think of is the beetle races where you do actually get more rewards for finishing in the top three. But that's a really marginal example . . .

    As to the OP's concern I don't think a compelling case can be made that anet's current policy of allowing everything unless it is banned is demonstrably better (or worse) from a gameplay perspective than the OP's proposed policy of banning everything unless it is allowed. But anet's policy is far superior from a business perspective, saves a lot of time and resources and achieves roughly the same result . . .

    Farming gold and gold/hour is ALWAYS a competitive event.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The argument doesn't make sense ... if they offer an advantage (I don't believe that), it's an advantage that EVERYONE has access to.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

This discussion has been closed.
©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.