Should people still be using core builds in ranked? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Should people still be using core builds in ranked?

Sovari.7246Sovari.7246 Member ✭✭

I feel like I'm in a disadvantage having a teammate that has a core build especially now in the PoF era and with firebrand being able to counter so many of those core builds pretty well. I've played a couple of matches tonight and of course I lost them all cause someone was running a core build which makes the fights even more stressful on the team I dunno if it's just a fluke but does core really have a future in the PoF era?

Comments

  • kKagari.6804kKagari.6804 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Theres a couple of core thieves in top 30 at the moment in NA. Legitimate players too, mind you.

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭

    Depends on the class. Honestly I'd love it if every class had at least one solid core build. F2P players need something to play.

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭

    @kKagari.6804 said:
    Theres a couple of core thieves in top 30 at the moment in NA. Legitimate players too, mind you.

    i can assure you there's no core thief in top 30 at the moment :o

  • kKagari.6804kKagari.6804 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @kKagari.6804 said:
    Theres a couple of core thieves in top 30 at the moment in NA. Legitimate players too, mind you.

    i can assure you there's no core thief in top 30 at the moment :o

    What rank is blackmagic now? I'm not at my computer but he has been in top 30 several times this week. I know elxdark was up there too before PoF.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017

    Game is designed in a way that even if you lose, you win because of how rewards are distributed. That being said there is no reason to remove some players from already almost empty ranked queue.

  • Find out what you enjoy most about a class, make a build that will get you the most out of it, and play it. Don't let any screeching nerd tell you otherwise. If you're good, you'll reach plat regardless of what you play. It's only when you face other good people that your build starts to matter.

  • I still play core war in ranked and even if I don't have same survival as spellbreaker... I make more damage and I can beat a bunch of spellbreakers in 1 vs 1 specially if using rampage (i rather always push far, eventually take close)... Sometimes I have ppl calling me noob and blocking me just because I lost far in 1 vs 2... (It happens in 30% of the case other 70% I can disengage, and I dont mind being called a noob since I am a noob)...
    I also have another f2P account placed on gold 1/2 that I play mainly core necro and eventually core Mesmer... 2 professions that are much less performing without exp (of any kind)...
    I just avoid FB, I have no problems with other professions.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017

    Core S/D thief is A tier, maybe meta after scourge/SB nerfs. They do extremely well against Holosmith, Weaver, Mirage. Core guard is viable, A- strength build. Right now, core Ele Fresh Air is super good because it is hardly affected by Scourge and Spellbreaker damage due to its kiting and consistent range damage. A+ tier as long as Scourge and Spellbreaker get spammed

    These three builds are the real core heroes. These builds do work in ANY tier, if in the right hands. High plat, low legend even.

    Edit: So yes players should be using these builds if they're good at the classes already with some playtime investment. A really new scourge learning his buttons will still probably randomly kill things but core builds have their place.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Hey. I've been playing only with core builds for the past two years since the game went free to play. In the beginning, it was quite alright, felt really balanced, and I had a lot of fun with many builds. Nowadays, my engineer main cannot really find a good and/or fun build that actually works. I've tried builds that used to work, but now they don't. I just take too much damage too fast, and there's AoE everywhere. I recently upgraded to the expansions and started using Scrapper, which has given me a better chance at winning games.
    Personally I don't like how core builds have become obsolete in many cases. I'm sure there are still viable builds, but in reality mostly elite specs are used now.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cosminion.5042 said:
    Hey. I've been playing only with core builds for the past two years since the game went free to play. In the beginning, it was quite alright, felt really balanced, and I had a lot of fun with many builds. Nowadays, my engineer main cannot really find a good and/or fun build that actually works. I've tried builds that used to work, but now they don't. I just take too much damage too fast, and there's AoE everywhere. I recently upgraded to the expansions and started using Scrapper, which has given me a better chance at winning games.
    Personally I don't like how core builds have become obsolete in many cases. I'm sure there are still viable builds, but in reality mostly elite specs are used now.

    Some professions have relevant core specs, some dont.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • maybe one day arenanet change the specs a way you can do anything without elite specs, but you get bether at something by using one (like you dmg reaches, but for that your not more that well at all things like before)

  • Kyon.9735Kyon.9735 Member ✭✭✭

    I think core FA S/F Ele is more viable than any other Weaver build right now. Tempest is simply outclassed by FB.

  • JETWING.2759JETWING.2759 Member ✭✭✭

    Guardian, Necro, Thief and Ranger still strong.

  • Why wouldn't they?

    The point of ranked games that you are matched with similar MMR players. If someone can do better with a core build than the enemy does with an elite spec, then why not? I used to play MM f2p ranger a lot in ranked without a problem playing around mid gold last season. I couldn't go as high as with my Chronomancer on my other account, but that's the point of the MMR system.

    A build itself cannot be a disadvantage. A player can be.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JETWING.2759 said:
    Guardian, Necro, Thief and Ranger still strong.

    Necro has zero functional core builds. Core necro has no damage and poor defensives.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017

    Core needs a bit of love.

    Take Reaper, Scourge, Holosmith and Spellbreaker, they have tradeoffs.
    With Reaper and scourge, you lose the death shroud and instead get the reaper shroud or the shad shroud skills.
    Holosmith trades the elite toolbelt skill for the holoforge.
    Spellbreaker trades the 3 stages of adrenaline for 2 stages that have the same skill.

    When elite specializations are like that, you have to lose a bit to gain a bit. There's a tradeoff that keeps something unique for the core profession.
    I'd go with more of that, by making all core professions have something that is lost when an elite specialziation is placed in the elite sepcialization slot. So elite specializations aren't never just just "additional gameplay" but instead always "different gameplay".

    For example:

    • Warrior - 3rd adrenaline bar. The 3rd stage adrenaline burst would be unique to core warrior.

      • Berserker would lose the third bar and get two like Spellbreaker.
      • Spellbreaker already has this tradeoff.
    • Guardian - Virtue of Humility : Sometimes you don't want Justice or other passives to trigger and give you its effects, or they are useless like fire against destroyers and fire elementals or aegis against enemies spamming unblockable attacks. Virtue of Humility would be a new F4 skill unique to core guardian. It'd be a toggle that disables the passive Virtue effects, but in exchange while it is toggled on it increases a bit your Power, Healing Power and Vitality stats and reduces the recharge of virtues by 10%.

      • Dragon hunter and firebrand would lose Humility.
    • Revenant - Energy Tap : This skill would be in the F2 slot for core revenant, and it would restore energy. For example, it could fill the energy, but have a long cooldown of 90s or more. Or reduce or remove the cost of the next skill used. Or tether to an enemy and recover energy while it's tethered. Or get attached to an enemy and recover energy when hitting that enemy or when that enemy is killed.

      • Herald and Renegade would lose the energy tap skill, replaced their their own extra profession skills.
    • Engineer - Elite toolbelt - The elite toolbelt skill would be unique to the core engineer, elite specializations would replace it.

      • Scrapper - Action Gyro : The Function Gyro can be underwhelming against large enemy groups in WvW and in PvE where enemies hardly ever go downed and allies are revived easily with F because people stack more. The Action Gyro would be a second Gyro that appears over the scrapper's other shoulder when it's ready. It'll be a skill with charges, but instead gaining charges over time it'll gain charges by interrupting enemies with control effects, damaging defiance bars, and with kills. When used it'll have a situational effect that helps in combat and can be used in a few different ways, and that deals damage and a form of control like stun or daze. It could be used, for example, to interrupt an enemy trying to finish an ally that you are reviving with the Function Gyro.
      • Holosmith already replaces the elite toolbelt.
    • Ranger - Tag! : F5 in the core ranger could be a skill that summons the alternate pet. It could be an 'assist', so it'll appear do its pet attack and leave; or a 'tag attack' that makes the pet appear and do its attack, and swap with the other pet like when doing a swap attack in fighting games with tag matches like Marvel vs. Capcom.

      • Druid and Soulbest would replace this F5 attack with their own F5 skills.
    • Thief - Pockets : The core thief would have an additional F3 slot for a second stolen skill. The trait "Improvisation" would no longer give 2 uses of a stolen skill, and instead it'll give a an additional F4 pocket slot. If any stolen skill slot is empty, stealing will put the last stolen skill in leftmost empty slot instead replacing a existing one.

      • Daredevil and Deadeye would lose the extra pockets, and for them Improvisation would work like now, letting them use the stolen skill twice.
    • Elementalist - Elemental Lord : Core elementalist could have an F5 skill that can recharge all attunements when activated. This skill would have 2 max charges and 10s cooldown, but the charges will not have a cooldown themselves, instead, the skill will gain a charge after attuning to each of the 4 elements.

      • Tempest and Weaver would lose Elemental Lord to gain their unique attuning mechanics.
    • Mesmer - Conundrum : Mesmers would gain an additional F5 shatter that causes Slow per illusion shattered.

      • Chronomancer gets instead continuum split, and Mirage gets mirage cloack and ambush skills instead.
    • Necromancer - Necromancer already has tradeoffs, Reaper trades the ranged death shroud for the melee reaper shroud, and Scourge trades it for the sand shroud that replaces the extra healthbar with temporary barriers.

  • JETWING.2759JETWING.2759 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @JETWING.2759 said:
    Guardian, Necro, Thief and Ranger still strong.

    Necro has zero functional core builds. Core necro has no damage and poor defensives.

    No.
    Go boon corrupt + condition that you can do well.

  • Loop.8106Loop.8106 Member ✭✭✭

    I reached top 30 on EU playing Core Hammer guard only. So yes, it's viable for ladder. No one would run them in tournaments though.

    Slam Jammed self proclaimed strongest core guardian on this side of the atlantic.

  • michelada.2947michelada.2947 Member ✭✭✭

    pfff my core guardian works better without the elites, no reason to pick those with the build i have, i think it's nice that core classes still bring something to the table

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 16, 2017

    @JETWING.2759 said:

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @JETWING.2759 said:
    Guardian, Necro, Thief and Ranger still strong.

    Necro has zero functional core builds. Core necro has no damage and poor defensives.

    No.
    Go boon corrupt + condition that you can do well.

    Core condi corrupt underperforms horribly. Core condi necro doesn't even do decent condi damage and makes renegade look good.

    The problem with necromancer is that necro has exactly 2 damage traitlines, the first being reaper and the second being scourge.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • Exciton.8942Exciton.8942 Member ✭✭✭

    There are a lot of strong core builds right now. If you exclude the outliers(scourge, spellbreaker, firebrand), they are very competitive against other elite spec builds.

    Let me just briefly list:
    Retaliation core guard. Lots of damage and decent sustain. Much easier to play than dragonhunter and is still effective.
    GS/LB core warrior. Okay damage, tons of sustain and anti-condition. Very good duelist overall.
    S/D power core thief. Top duelist with relatively low risk. Only counter is D/P thief.
    P/P condi core engi. High condi burst and decent survivability. Slightly less than meta but not bad at all.
    Fresh air core ele. High damage and decent sustain. Only hard counter is good thief.

  • Elxdark.9702Elxdark.9702 Member ✭✭✭

    Core builds were really popular before POF, it's true that after POF most people went scourge/spellbreaker but there are still some people using them doing alright.

    Trash NA thief HITZER
    twitch

  • ZhouX.8742ZhouX.8742 Member ✭✭✭

    core s/d acro is slowly becoming the meta of choice for thief at the upper level, too good and will be even much better when scourge and spellbreaker are toned down

  • I've always played core Mesmer. mainly I like the challenge of core professions over elites. ive never really got any complaints from teammates in games I tend to get more compliments for playing well. but that down more to my awareness and tactics than the profession. I still refuse to use elites in pvp they need more draw backs to their mechanics to be balanced or the trait lines made really weak for the bonus mechanics. need core only ranked games be great see ppls skill levels without the powercreep carrying a lot of them.

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2017

    I think that PvP should be ONLY core builds and with restricted class stacking. Then again.. I have an old fashioned idea about fair play.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Core builds should be competitive IMO. You shouldn't be obliged to purchase an expansion just to be competitive in PvP. When core builds are underpowered then this should get some tweaking in the next balance patch to make them competitive again.

    Ascalon Will Prevail!

    GW Wiki user page | GW2 Wiki user page

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 17, 2017

    @ellesee.8297 said:
    Find out what you enjoy most about a class, make a build that will get you the most out of it, and play it. Don't let any screeching nerd tell you otherwise. If you're good, you'll reach plat regardless of what you play. It's only when you face other good people that your build starts to matter.

    Very true. This is a video game, and your own personal enjoyment should come before the perceived enjoyment of others. You should be playing first for yourself.

    I currently like to play Rifle + P/P Deadeye, because it is very fun for me. At the start of every game I told my team I was not a "decap" Thief. I reached plat using my fun pew pew build, but you can bet your butt that in the case of a loss it was "Thief we lost because you didn't decap." (No, you lost because you couldn't beat the enemy, but you need someone to blame, and it can't possibly be because you fought players that were above your skill level - you're the best player you know!) But the countless times that I was showered with post-game medals (Most Damage, Kills, Defense, Offense, etc...) nobody seemed to give me praise for being effective.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am not sure what the hell the OP is talking about. Some core builds are meta for some classes.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZhouX.8742 said:
    core s/d acro is slowly becoming the meta of choice for thief at the upper level, too good and will be even much better when scourge and spellbreaker are toned down

    I can confirm this. Spent an hour yesterday dueling against a s/d core thief, and at the end of that all I learned was that no matter what you do you lose when fighting that monster.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • The only core specs that have severe disadvantages at the moment are revenant and necro.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2017

    @Loop.8106 said:
    I reached top 30 on EU playing Core Hammer guard only. So yes, it's viable for ladder. No one would run them in tournaments though.

    You know, I can't be mad at you for that.
    Looks like I found my next test build :]
    Been meaning to find something dps'y outside of auramancer.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    I've seen some decent core wars and core eles running around and this 1 core necro running some sort of old school power well build...

    Personally I don't care what people run, as long as they can play it.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    The only core specs that have severe disadvantages at the moment are revenant and necro.

    wat

    There is no core Revenant.

  • @Crinn.7864 said:

    @ZhouX.8742 said:
    core s/d acro is slowly becoming the meta of choice for thief at the upper level, too good and will be even much better when scourge and spellbreaker are toned down

    I can confirm this. Spent an hour yesterday dueling against a s/d core thief, and at the end of that all I learned was that no matter what you do you lose when fighting that monster.

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    The only core specs that have severe disadvantages at the moment are revenant and necro.

    wat

    There is no core Revenant.

    Oh yeah you're right

    I must have been in a fever dream

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Matoki.3287Matoki.3287 Member ✭✭

    @michelada.2947 said:
    pfff my core guardian works better without the elites, no reason to pick those with the build i have, i think it's nice that core classes still bring something to the table

    Mind to share your Guard build?

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 19, 2019

    Delete this post please.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • michelada.2947michelada.2947 Member ✭✭✭

    @Matoki.3287 said:

    @michelada.2947 said:
    pfff my core guardian works better without the elites, no reason to pick those with the build i have, i think it's nice that core classes still bring something to the table

    Mind to share your Guard build?

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAsd7Ol0AxuhgrQgfIO4HKbBMu7JOAmhiIXhZ4GC-jJxHQBE8JAkkyAA4kAcm9HAA
    This build was before the nerf to righteous instincts, but still works pretty well, you can even turn this build into a medi guard but i'm not a fan of it . the reason why i prefer core guardian instead of other elite spec is because the core guard virtues are instant.

  • LolLookAtMyAP.8394LolLookAtMyAP.8394 Member ✭✭✭

    I got so confused for a sec lol

  • Matoki.3287Matoki.3287 Member ✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Matoki.3287 said:
    Mind to share your Guard build?

    why did you necro a thread from 2017?

    What's your problem dude? I wanted to know that build she was referring to.
    You don't need to answer you know?

  • It'd be interesting if they made one core spec a 'Core Elite specialization', that you also can't take with other Elite specializations. Not sure if it'd work, it could make many current builds unviable, but maybe it'd add some diversity and introduce some more interesting builds. Or not. As if it'd ever happen anyway. Bshrug

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Every core should work as much elites work. Elites should mean there’s stronger specialization on what that class do, sadly anet uses elites to sell game and overbuff them and puts a vertical progression on the elites overperformance ence why games end unbalanced sometimes way to much for a game that calls himself balanced.

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