Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Is Soulbeast the new DH?


witcher.3197

Recommended Posts

@"bOTEB.1573" said:I keep saying this. SLB is extremely easy to deal with if you avoid his 3 skills. Yes he can deal good burst damage but this is the only viable thing in this spec. And when someone can avoid it, either by LOS, dodge, block, interupt, stun, daze, knockdown, the SLB is super easy target. Good players deal with it super easy which makes it a l2p issue, and only this. Until ANET buff the dmg sustain of SLB, it won't find good spot in competitive matches.

Replace SLB with Berserker, and "3 skills" with "1 skill"The difference is, the second one got nerfed back into the oblivion and garbage state few weeks after the rework, and other one did not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 58
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@KelyNeli.4516 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:I keep saying this. SLB is extremely easy to deal with if you avoid his 3 skills. Yes he can deal good burst damage but this is the only viable thing in this spec. And when someone can avoid it, either by LOS, dodge, block, interupt, stun, daze, knockdown, the SLB is super easy target. Good players deal with it super easy which makes it a l2p issue, and only this. Until ANET buff the dmg sustain of SLB, it won't find good spot in competitive matches.

Replace SLB with Berserker, and "3 skills" with "1 skill"The difference is, the second one got nerfed back into the oblivion and garbage state few weeks after the rework, and other one did not.

20% dmg nerf of a skill that was dealing 3 times more dmg than the SLB. Still, berserker deals far too much dmg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"bOTEB.1573" said:I keep saying this. SLB is extremely easy to deal with if you avoid his 3 skills. Yes he can deal good burst damage but this is the only viable thing in this spec. And when someone can avoid it, either by LOS, dodge, block, interupt, stun, daze, knockdown, the SLB is super easy target. Good players deal with it super easy which makes it a l2p issue, and only this. Until ANET buff the dmg sustain of SLB, it won't find good spot in competitive matches.

Sorry but : only dodge or immune work as a counter :

  • 50% LoS work because he can teleport with smoke skill. And have a good superspeed uptime during burst.
  • Block didn't work because unblocable.
  • Stun,daze, knock didn't work because stab.
  • Stealth didn't work because reveal.

Not even saying that you eat CC during his burst.Not saying it's op or not but there is very few ways to counter a soulbeast burst.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"bOTEB.1573" said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:I keep saying this. SLB is extremely easy to deal with if you avoid his 3 skills. Yes he can deal good burst damage but this is the only viable thing in this spec. And when someone can avoid it, either by LOS, dodge, block, interupt, stun, daze, knockdown, the SLB is super easy target. Good players deal with it super easy which makes it a l2p issue, and only this. Until ANET buff the dmg sustain of SLB, it won't find good spot in competitive matches.

Replace SLB with Berserker, and "3 skills" with "1 skill"The difference is, the second one got nerfed back into the oblivion and garbage state few weeks after the rework, and other one did not.

20% dmg nerf of a skill that was dealing 3 times more dmg than the SLB. Still, berserker deals far too much dmg

Too much damage if you use only awsd keys and click spells with mouse button.Soulbeast preparing his burst could cast spells into the air and burst down someone from the range dealing about 20-30 k damage in one second.Berserker loses 21% if he will miss berserker mode activation damage by not being in melee range during activation, and basically any class with TP and stun break could make his burst absolutely useless and once they dodge it berserker is a sitting duck without anything else, casting signet, berserker mode and arc divider takes 2.25 seconds, where it is way harder to dodge soul beast arrows burst, and even if you do somehow survive it, he could still burst you down with something else.You could dig a hole with a stick, but shovel is better at it, deal with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@witcher.3197 said:A trivial thing that nobody plays at high tier games, but all the silver 2 players are flooding the forums crying for it to be nerfed.

So like Mirage 2 nerfs ago?

Take a guess where this is headed. Can't say I feel sorry for anyone on the spvp boards. What goes around comes around, and excessive whining with subsequent nerfs will affect every class.

Just seems to be the engineers, rangers and warriors turn once again. Don't worry, once those classes are nerfed, the complaints will move on to the next fotm class and the cycle continues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@witcher.3197 said:A trivial thing that nobody plays at high tier games, but all the silver 2 players are flooding the forums crying for it to be nerfed.

So like Mirage 2 nerfs ago?

Take a guess where this is headed. Can't say I feel sorry for anyone on the spvp boards. What goes around comes around, and excessive whining with subsequent nerfs will affect every class.

Just seems to be the engineers, rangers and warriors turn once again. Don't worry, once those classes are nerfed, the complaints will move on to the next fotm class and the cycle continues.Warrior/engi avoid getting deserved nerfs for how long ? In fact they buff holo last 2 patches, seems like the most favorite Anet child with all this attention/buffs all around

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"praqtos.9035" said:most favorite Anet child

Hey.

Hey.

How about let's not use "anet's favorite child" for everything that happens to be strong at the moment. Every class in this game, with the exception of mesmer, has spent significant time in E tier, with their builds fully unviable for pvp play of any kind. Further, the two class specs you mentioned just climbed out of the unviable pit.

That's mesmer's title, thank ye. We can punt that title around when/if they sink below B tier competitively.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:most favorite Anet child

Hey.

Hey.

How about let's not use "anet's favorite child" for everything that happens to be strong at the moment. Every class in this game, with the exception of mesmer, has spent significant time in E tier, with their builds fully unviable for pvp play of any kind. Further, the two class specs you mentioned
just climbed out of the unviable pit.
As if they ever been in
UNVIABLE PIT
That's mesmer's title, thank ye. We can punt that title around when/if they sink below B tier competitively.Highly doubt you can call something "favorite child" after seeing over 70% nerfs all around unless you are memeing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@viquing.8254 said:

@"bOTEB.1573" said:I keep saying this. SLB is extremely easy to deal with if you avoid his 3 skills. Yes he can deal good burst damage but this is the only viable thing in this spec. And when someone can avoid it, either by LOS, dodge, block, interupt, stun, daze, knockdown, the SLB is super easy target. Good players deal with it super easy which makes it a l2p issue, and only this. Until ANET buff the dmg sustain of SLB, it won't find good spot in competitive matches.

Sorry but : only dodge or immune work as a counter :
  • 50% LoS work because he can teleport with smoke skill. And have a good superspeed uptime during burst.
  • Block didn't work because unblocable.
  • Stun,daze, knock didn't work because stab.
  • Stealth didn't work because reveal.

Not even saying that you eat CC during his burst.Not saying it's op or not but there is very few ways to counter a soulbeast burst.

You need to burn 2 dodges or a hard invuln. If you try anything else, there's a decent chance you're dead before you realize you picked the wrong option.

  • As noted, LoS is very situational, and a lot of times you'll be in the middle of a point with nothing around and by the time you make it to a corner to LoS, you'll be dead.
  • You can see SotP activate and the stability on their bar, so you know not to try an interrupt then, but you can't see Shared Anguish. If you haven't seen them use it already, you just have to assume it's up. Thus, you can't rely on hard CC.
  • You can see some of the unblockable effects, but only if you were watching/targeting the SB the whole time, and if you were, you probably have enough time to (double) dodge the burst. More often, the pew pew comes from outside your field of vision so you react with a reflexive block or projectile bubble only to find out the burst had one of SB's 2 short-cooldown unblockables on it. You can't tell from the attacks alone. You have to just assume it's unblockable.
  • Can't rely on stealth obviously because of Sic Em
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"praqtos.9035" said:As if they ever been in UNVIABLE PIT

Yeah. Berserker and Scrapper were both unviable for significant periods of time.

Highly doubt you can call something "favorite child" after seeing over 70% nerfs all around unless you are memeing

Sure can, every denomination of Mes specialization is still viable even -after- the nerfs. It surely wasn't a 70% nerf all around, but if you can hit a class that hard over time and it can still do its matchups properly, it was heavily overtuned. It's only recently that Arenanet seems to be considering "maybe don't bust mesmer or its specs" as a balance recourse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:As if they ever been in
UNVIABLE PIT

Yeah. Berserker and Scrapper were both unviable for significant periods of time.Does it mean class itself was unviable and had no options? Ele was like that, these 2 are not

Highly doubt you can call something "favorite child" after seeing over 70% nerfs all around unless you are memeing

Sure can, every denomination of Mes specialization is still viable even -after- the nerfs. It surely wasn't a 70% nerf all around, but if you can hit a class that hard over time and it can still do its matchups properly, it was heavily overtuned. It's only recently that Arenanet seems to be considering "maybe don't bust mesmer or its specs" as a balance recourse.What matchups ? Doesnt matter what spec you do play on mesmer you are literally worse than any class at any job you spec for. Even at forum all "reee mesmer" threads doesnt exist anymore. Just as thier presence at ranked/AT'sIndeed 75% cd increase was on ambush for mirage, and like over 200% icd increase on the mirror, and 67% on axe ambush. Blind trait was just deleted(only god know why)Otherwise its solid 50% at A LOT of stuff, including core weapons ((((If you want to talk about it either privately or drop it, as thread is not about it))))

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"praqtos.9035" said:Does it mean class itself was unviable and had no options? Ele was like that, these 2 are not

That's not what I said. Spellbreaker and Holo both need tuning, but the other specs underneath those classes were significantly underpowered. All I'm saying is that those classes have had enough hits over time to be disqualified as 'favored'.

Even at forum all "reee mesmer" threads doesnt exist anymore-Because they recently got balanced. That doesn't mean they became unviable.

That being said-

((((If you want to talk about it either privately or drop it, as thread is not about it))))

It was a joke moreso than a serious jab or an invitation to discussion. As you said, this is about SB~

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:Does it mean class itself was unviable and had no options? Ele was like that, these 2 are not

That's not what I said. Spellbreaker and Holo both need tuning, but the other specs underneath those classes were significantly underpowered. All I'm saying is that those classes have had enough hits over time to be disqualified as 'favored'."Their specs were made worse to sell the coming expansion but still always had an overtuned spec,thus, disqualify them from being favored".

Even at forum all "reee mesmer" threads doesnt exist anymore-Because they recently got balanced. That doesn't mean they became unviable.Not sure if joking((((If you want to talk about it either privately or drop it, as thread is not about it))))It was a jokeThats what I think about your posts ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"witcher.3197" said:A trivial thing that nobody plays at high tier games, but all the silver 2 players are flooding the forums crying for it to be nerfed.

So like Mirage 2 nerfs ago?

Take a guess where this is headed. Can't say I feel sorry for anyone on the spvp boards. What goes around comes around, and excessive whining with subsequent nerfs will affect every class.

Just seems to be the engineers, rangers and warriors turn once again. Don't worry, once those classes are nerfed, the complaints will move on to the next fotm class and the cycle continues.

Careful. You might come across as " bitter" and " wanting everyone else to suffer"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Solori.6025 said:

@"witcher.3197" said:A trivial thing that nobody plays at high tier games, but all the silver 2 players are flooding the forums crying for it to be nerfed.

So like Mirage 2 nerfs ago?

Take a guess where this is headed. Can't say I feel sorry for anyone on the spvp boards. What goes around comes around, and excessive whining with subsequent nerfs will affect every class.

Just seems to be the engineers, rangers and warriors turn once again. Don't worry, once those classes are nerfed, the complaints will move on to the next fotm class and the cycle continues.

Careful. You might come across as " bitter" and " wanting everyone else to suffer"

Not at all. It's just pure logic and common sense. I'm not even affected by the spvp nerfs as primary pver and occasional WvW player (and in those modes I play enough classes to always be able to adapt).

Just the culture which has established its self among some GW2 players (not going to single out spvp because the pve player base can whine just as much) to cry about everything takes its toll on all classes. It's foolish to believe any "chosen" class will remain on top.

On the up side, this way every class gets to be on top (there is a nice video on balance and how imperfect balance is a thing). Unfortunately this way every one will eventually also get nerfed.

TL;DR:The hypocrisy of some posters who are always so up and arms about other classes needing to get balanced then defending their class of choice is always amusing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Solori.6025" said:Careful. You might come across as " bitter" and " wanting everyone else to suffer"

You can be bitter and also right.

The whining will continue as long as there are classes that, when paired against the rest of the lineup, can outsustain in most general situations or can deliver HP bars worth of damage in most general situations in extremely short periods of time/without telegraph. The claims that are baseless have a very short shelf life here.

What I don't understand is people refusing to evaluate their own counterplay when it is obvious Anet does not wish to reward certain playstyles. I understand the joke, but why is "just LoS" a defense for being dealt heavy, unblockable damage from 1500 range, when Deadeye, which centered around that playstyle, got heavily nerfed and that defense implies your class is immediately advantaged in the open? Why is "just dodge" a defense for that kind of damage at range/without telegraph when reworked Zerker had to hug you to do the same damage and got tuned?

All I'm saying is reward the type of playstyle you want to reward evenly across the board. If a class has stealth or can do damage from range, adjust their damage so that the reward scales with the risk involved in the playstyle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I started playing soul beast last week (I'm plat 1/2) and have been loving it. That said, it's far from "OP". Yes, there are cheesy 1shot builds, but that is literally every class in the game. If that's your rational for it needing nerfs, then so does rifle war, hammer guard, herald (tho rev is actually OP), daredevil, core thief, dead eye, rifle engi, FA ele, power mesmer, reaper, do I really need to elaborate? Yes WWP + sic 'em zerker ranger is cheesy AF but that's not unique and not a problem. I don't get the calls for nerfed to all the "OP soulbeasts" that are ruining ranked. If there is such a build, I would love to know what it is xD. I'm not even a ranger main, but this is dumb.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@xp eke xp.6724 said:

DH is good at:

  • it has the second strongest duell build (the best still FB if you dont play him full support)

Tell me what kind of heavy drugs allowed you to see in DH and FB the two strongest duellers in the game. I'm a main thief, a class that has always been countered by guardians. Let me tell you something, I'll prefer to face a guardian instead of an holo/scrapper, sb/druid or a brawler weaver, any day. I spend most of my time in WvW and Spvp duelling, and guardians(any build) are far from being a threat as big as the spec I mentioned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

he can block, blind and dodge all dmg you can bring and otherwise he has countinual dmg with his symboles. Even with unblock bulky dhs/fb have enought options to reduse your dmg and heal them completely back and then he still didnt kite.

here the dh build*.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRApd8en8cCFdiVDBeDB8Dhl6hCrGCip4KA2hYQe+z//H-jpwCBAw+DWZAA

  • never have condis,
  • always protect if needed
  • he can blind or block singlehit burst
  • f-skill reset
  • pasive heal from: dodges, symbols, regeneration, aegis

now on FB (but most of you should allready know how hard it is to kill the support guard):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRApd3ensAD1BjVDBeDB8Dhl6B7KAsDiB7l0XaNF7BEEmCA-jpwCBAw+DWZAAthats the valor build*

  • the points dh had
  • more heal
  • more dmg

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRApd3ensAD1Bj97AeDB8DhF+BLrClh2QYBgZQRY/iGSPpA-jpQNABAs/A3lBAAand the virtues build*

  • shorter uptime for f-skills
  • les selfheal options

*there are still options to change in the builds like playing with rune of divinity, using zepter or sword and more.

i also saw some FB playing with gostweapons for more onpoint dmg and that works too.

DH and FB just got completely countered by DE cause his deaths jugment was unblockable, so warriors and mesmers had a better duell against that and close the same fight situations against all others (means they win or survive the 1v1s).

But now:

  • you could use them like that, without being outclassed by them
  • FB still has also the unice option to be played as support/ change his build to full support
  • that duellbuilds are slow maprotaders, that can survive for that a -2 situation onpoint, if they kite also -3

@rbbthole.9074just cause noone plays theyr class well enouth it doesnt mean i didnt do my homeworks ... oh and dont do drugs!

btw. can it be that you perfer that classes, cause they have less trouble if they use the blocks wrong? Cause if the DH/FB don´t know how to play around unblock, those matches gets less anoying for your S/D thief.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...