It's time to start banning addons and 3rd party tools

[Obtena.7952]

The argument doesn't make sense ... if they offer an advantage (I don't believe that), it's an advantage that EVERYONE has access to.

[Teratus.2859]

@kermq.6258 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@kermq.6258 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:.The mount wheel thing for example is a great QOL idea.

Why you need a mount wheel i just did bind all my mounts to numpad seems i should be now banned by OP becuse i start my mounts even faster then choosing from a wheel :D and thats advantage against others that didnt do it :bleep_bloop:

Macro keys for me but I only got 6 of them and now there's 7 mounts.Considering how many have been added in such a short time overall the wheel would still be a benefit in the long run.

i got 10 number keys on numpad and mounts starts from 0(griffon) and rest are in order you did get them so 1-raptor 2-springer and so on. But by the OP logic i should be baned becuse i have advantage on others because i start my mounts much faster :D

Nah, anyone could do this Macro or not by editing their settings.It's not the same as using 3rd party software.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Anything that causes an in game advantage is explicitly banned already.Anything that is for QOL, like mount menus, can have a button assigned to them easily. I use the keypad for my mounts.Banning the addons that dont give a competitive edge because you personally dislike them is asking for trouble.

@Shiyo.3578 said:Farming gold and gold/hour is ALWAYS a competitive event.

I don't agree that the task of farming gold is even a competitive event, but IF it is competitive as you say, there is nothing provided by any addons that you cannot take advantage of by using the wiki and its associated timers, drawing a map of the gather routes yourself, or other such optimization.If you're competitive about it you'd still be looking for ways to streamline your gain via methods not utilized by the general playerbase.

[Shiyo.3578]

@"zealex.9410" said:Nothing that you say "should be in the base game" needs to be in the base game and id argue not even build templates need to be in the base game.

Addons are there to enhance the game in aspects that would simply take dev resources and time to do so baseline.

Addons are not officially supported, this is not WoW/Rift. Give me official support, or ban them. That's what I want.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Alas, we don't always get what we want. :(

[Menadena.7482]

Part of the problem is they are not available to everyone. No matter what your feeling about macs they are a supported platform in this game .... yet most (all?) addons are windows-only. Which means some people get an advantage that others do not (no, telling people to 'just buy another computer to play games' is not a realistic solution).

[Vavume.8065]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:Plug-ins, overlays, and other sorts of 3rd party tools are here to stay.

There will always be some players objecting to 3rd party mods, that is also here to stay.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Vavume.8065 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:Plug-ins, overlays, and other sorts of 3rd party tools are here to stay.

There will always be some players objecting to 3rd party mods, that is also here to stay.

True.(There are also people claiming the earth is flat; that, too, is here to stay.)

[Khisanth.2948]

TaCO can also be implemented using a transparent OLED display ... but that would be a stupidly expensive alternative.

or HoloLens ... if only it wasn't so expensive

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:Tac0 markers are literally in-game advantages and cheating over those that don't have them. Especially for Adventures, Races, Holiday events and Jumping Puzzles.

But the thing is none of those activities are competitive events so it doesn't matter if someone else has an advantage over me. The only exception I can think of is the beetle races where you do actually get more rewards for finishing in the top three. But that's a really marginal example . . .

As to the OP's concern I don't think a compelling case can be made that anet's current policy of allowing everything unless it is banned is demonstrably better (or worse) from a gameplay perspective than the OP's proposed policy of banning everything unless it is allowed. But anet's policy is far superior from a business perspective, saves a lot of time and resources and achieves roughly the same result . . .

Farming gold and gold/hour is

ALWAYS

a competitive event.

Then you've lost as soon as you began. Even a minimum wage job gives a higher g/h.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Cristalyan.5728" said:I will try: Let's suppose TWO persons playing from the same location (two twin brothers). Using the same machine for playing. And the same internet connection. Playing alternatively - one in the morning, the other in the afternoon, the same number of hours each. One is using the add-ons to find the SkyScale eggs (or to cure the Skyscales / or to gather scales). The other is not using any add-on. Who do you think will complete the collection faster?The one that looks up the guide with a good map that marks the locations.

That one i can attest to personally - the map you can look up on a second monitor (or alttab to) is much more valuable than TacO markers.

And in the end, how does the game benefit from that?

I think you nailed it =) ANet

may

have some expenses to clean the game from third party dirty. But we wrongly think they are too lazy. They are not. They care about the money much more than about the players. So, I will try to reword your last sentence:"

And in the end, how does ANet benefit from that?

"And the answer is - they do not. There's no benefit from enforcing a strict ban on all third-party apps (especially considering that for some it's non-enforceable). And while there might be a benefit from introducing their own official versions of some of those apps, that would require a significant prior investment that isn't so sure to pay off.

despite them being "against the rules"They aren't "against the rules." They are "use at your own risk."Anyone using tools that are against the rules... those people already get suspended or banned.

LOL? Are you sure? By this "They aren't "against the rules." They are "use at your own risk." you demolished any of your previous attempts to defend the use of the third-party software in this game =) So, ANet, by its own will and with its own approval, accepts that by using the GW2 game (its own software) with all the officially accepted add-ons puts you, your computer, your personal and professional data stored to a risk?No, it's not what it means. Remember,

there are no officially accepted addons

. There are only addons that clearly break the rules, and those that do not. Anet tells us what is allowed, but what they don't generally say is which

specific

addon is allowed. And what they definitely aren't going to tell us is whether a specific addon is safe to use or not. They are not in the business of vetting third party sofware for us. That's all between addon author and players that use it.

ARE YOU SURE you wanted to write what you wrote? Usually the software putting you and your PC to a risk are called "malware". And are not considered legal software. And now we found that ANet is

selling

malware?Point me to a single addon Anet is selling, please.

[Linken.6345]

@Menadena.7482 said:Part of the problem is they are not available to everyone. No matter what your feeling about macs they are a supported platform in this game .... yet most (all?) addons are windows-only. Which means some people get an advantage that others do not (no, telling people to 'just buy another computer to play games' is not a realistic solution).

Dont macs have a way to simulate windows when playing games so you can use addons?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Or you are using a browser ... [that] can place you markers on the GW2 maps?This is called an overlay and it's how TACO works. Overlays (including TACO) read the game's API to populate the map (icons and imagines) and to place your location (the so-called mumble API, used by mumble and discord and related apps to show your location relative to guildies and friends).

Or you are using a browser ...[that] ...can read your DPS, your boon uptimeThat requires a plug-in; it cannot be pulled into a browser, because the API doesn't support combat data. And that constitutes the rare case in which ANet has been in contact with the developer. In one case (ArcDPS), they've greenlit it, meaning that they don't see any features that violate the terms of service. In another infamous case, they saw many features that did break the rules, the developer refused to update the app satisfactorily, and the developer's accounts were permanently banned; work on that app ceased.

[Menadena.7482]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Menadena.7482 said:Part of the problem is they are not available to everyone. No matter what your feeling about macs they are a supported platform in this game .... yet most (all?) addons are windows-only. Which means some people get an advantage that others do not (no, telling people to 'just buy another computer to play games' is not a realistic solution).

Dont macs have a way to simulate windows when playing games so you can use addons?

Very badly. You have to set it up to dual boot (although that might be going the way of the dodo with apple's new security plus you have to buy a copy of windows) or some form of emulation (which also means buying windows, it is also slower).

[kermq.6258]

@Menadena.7482 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Menadena.7482 said:Part of the problem is they are not available to everyone. No matter what your feeling about macs they are a supported platform in this game .... yet most (all?) addons are windows-only. Which means some people get an advantage that others do not (no, telling people to 'just buy another computer to play games' is not a realistic solution).

Dont macs have a way to simulate windows when playing games so you can use addons?

Very badly. You have to set it up to dual boot (although that might be going the way of the dodo with apple's new security plus you have to buy a copy of windows) or some form of emulation (which also means buying windows, it is also slower).

Who would in their right mind play games on a Mac?

https://cad-comic.com/comic/life-in-a-jar/

[Kanok.3027]

This again? Really? Don't we have enough threads on this already?

Those that scream that it's unfair: there is nothing stopping other people from NOT using the same plugins to gain the same imagined advantage as others. Literally nothing, except yourself. Thinking you are "legit" for not using add-ons that are not against the ToS, as explained by Anet staff on numerous occasions, yeah. Talk about your superiority complex. If people mock you for not using them, that is the fault of said user, not the people that use them in general. Don't want to be like that and condemn others for not using them after you finally start doing so? Then don't. Simple!

[otto.5684]

Since these tools/addons existed long time ago, it is safe to assume that Anet stance is that they are accepted. Anet will never issue an official statement though, cuz that opens pandora’s Box where they have to approve every other software. Then again, if there any changes to it.

Use at your own risk, but understand that Anet stance is tolerance of most theirs party addons.

[Shiyo.3578]

This is only the beginning. As Anet continues to ignore these 3rd party tools, they will only get more complex and automate more things until we have people with full-fledged bots being commonly shared between most players of the player base.

Source: FFXIThis EXACT thing happened in that game, and now it's overrun with bots, hacks, etc. The developers simply turned a blind eye and now it's too late to fix it.I do not want the exact same thing happening to this game.

Wake up Anet.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@Shiyo.3578 said:This is only the beginning. As Anet continues to ignore these 3rd party tools, they will only get more complex and automate more things until we have people with full-fledged bots being commonly shared between most players of the player base.

Source: FFXIThis EXACT thing happened in that game, and now it's overrun with bots, hacks, etc. The developers simply turned a blind eye and now it's too late to fix it.I do not want the exact same thing happening to this game.

Wake up Anet.

So, how long will it take? If it's not happened in 5-6 years, and that's just the beginning, would it be 20 years? 30 years? Probably don't have to worry, as the game will probably be on maintenance mode, if even accessible, by then.

[Maikimaik.1974]

@Shiyo.3578 said:This is only the beginning. As Anet continues to ignore these 3rd party tools, they will only get more complex and automate more things until we have people with full-fledged bots being commonly shared between most players of the player base.

Source: FFXIThis EXACT thing happened in that game, and now it's overrun with bots, hacks, etc. The developers simply turned a blind eye and now it's too late to fix it.I do not want the exact same thing happening to this game.

Wake up Anet.It has been 7 years and nothing like that happend yet. Quite the opposite actually, Anet has officially banned addons that violated the TOS.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Samuel.4812 said:None of the add-ons you mentioned affect competitive modes.

Anything that effects pvp or wvw should be banned but other than that the guy two posts up has it all down.

the only one that has any effect on pve competitiveness are dps meters this is a fact that people currently rate professions and their elite specs compeitively via dps meters with each balance change. So to an extent being competitive effectively in pve dps meters do hold some weight there.

Thought as many said ban them all and add a few select ones to the game at base. I would be fine with this although this is gonna hurt alot of people. I can see countless players getting banned for using 3rd party addons even if they are currently ok simply because they ignore when if hypothetically anet decided to change the rules.

[Aeolus.3615]

@kermq.6258 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@kermq.6258 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:.The mount wheel thing for example is a great QOL idea.

Why you need a mount wheel i just did bind all my mounts to numpad seems i should be now banned by OP becuse i start my mounts even faster then choosing from a wheel :D and thats advantage against others that didnt do it :bleep_bloop:

Macro keys for me but I only got 6 of them and now there's 7 mounts.Considering how many have been added in such a short time overall the wheel would still be a benefit in the long run.

i got 10 number keys on numpad and mounts starts from 0(griffon) and rest are in order you did get them so 1-raptor 2-springer and so on. But by the OP logic i should be baned becuse i have advantage on others because i start my mounts much faster :D

Well macros allowed ment only one action per key, swaping mount envolves several actions that u have in one key.

;)Game should allow its own shortcuts

[Obtena.7952]

@Shiyo.3578 said:This is only the beginning. As Anet continues to ignore these 3rd party tools, they will only get more complex and automate more things until we have people with full-fledged bots being commonly shared between most players of the player base.

Source: FFXIThis EXACT thing happened in that game, and now it's overrun with bots, hacks, etc. The developers simply turned a blind eye and now it's too late to fix it.I do not want the exact same thing happening to this game.

Wake up Anet.

Anet doesn't ignore them though ...

Again, they aren't unfair advantages ... EVERYONE has access to them.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Shiyo.3578 said:This is only the beginning. As Anet continues to ignore these 3rd party tools, they will only get more complex and automate more things until we have people with full-fledged bots being commonly shared between most players of the player base.

Source: FFXIThis EXACT thing happened in that game, and now it's overrun with bots, hacks, etc. The developers simply turned a blind eye and now it's too late to fix it.I do not want the exact same thing happening to this game.

Wake up Anet.

People who use bots don't care about what is or isn't allowed. Your suggestion is completely irrelevant to that issue. Botting has always been and always will be a bannable.

[Kanok.3027]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:This is only the beginning. As Anet continues to ignore these 3rd party tools, they will only get more complex and automate more things until we have people with full-fledged bots being commonly shared between most players of the player base.

Source: FFXIThis EXACT thing happened in that game, and now it's overrun with bots, hacks, etc. The developers simply turned a blind eye and now it's too late to fix it.I do not want the exact same thing happening to this game.

Wake up Anet.

People who use bots don't care about what is or isn't allowed. Your suggestion is completely irrelevant to that issue. Botting has always been and always will be a bannable.

I was going to quote the same post, but this about sums it up. These add-ons conform to strict guidelines Anet has in place so that players don't gain a true, unfair advantage. Hacks and botting tools are not allowed at all in GW2 and Anet has taken measures to ensure this time and time again. Remember the mass ban waves that occurred not too long ago? People reported for using hacks are, usually, banned or warned not to do it again because those tools are meant to give certain players a very real unfair advantage, as where tools such as arcdps and TaCO do not. So, it's not Anet that needs to wake up, it's you and people with your exact mindset, OP.

[zealex.9410]

@Shiyo.3578 said:This is only the beginning. As Anet continues to ignore these 3rd party tools, they will only get more complex and automate more things until we have people with full-fledged bots being commonly shared between most players of the player base.

Source: FFXIThis EXACT thing happened in that game, and now it's overrun with bots, hacks, etc. The developers simply turned a blind eye and now it's too late to fix it.I do not want the exact same thing happening to this game.

Wake up Anet.

Didnt they basically have ff11 in mentainance mode till recently where tey revealed some plans for it?