Just an idea on how to make the WvW experience more impactful and rewarding — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Just an idea on how to make the WvW experience more impactful and rewarding

Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭
edited May 20, 2019 in WvW

I'll preface this by saying I don't think this is the absolute best solution and I haven't completely thought it through but I would like other people's thoughts and feedback on it. I wouldn't be surprised if someone has suggested a similar idea before Also, any numbers used are just a place holder. I'll refine the idea as I get feedback.

The idea
I think there needs to be more risk/reward in WvW but implemented in such a way that the player feels fully in control of that risk. I wouldn't change anything currently in place just add a new mechanic and currency. We'll call the currency "Victory Trophies" (VT for short) and they will be account bound and stored in your wallet. To earn these all you have to do is defeat other players. These can be "cashed in" for valuable items from a vendor (idk what yet, crafting supply bags? Unidentified gear? Ecto?). The difference between this currency and the others is when you die you lose 1/3 of the trophies you have rounded down. I just chose a random portion to lose but I think 1/3 sounds fair. That way you really want to avoid dying but you are not at a complete loss of your work if you do.

Earning VT and its impact.

The only way to earn trophies will be by defeating other players and a bonus at the end of the week but that wont make objectives irrelevant. Taking an objective will grant you a temporary multiplier. You only earn this bonus when you contribute to taking an objective. When the objective is lost, you lose that multiplier. For instance:

  • Sentries - 5% increase to VT gain
  • Camps - 15% increase to VT gain
  • Towers - 35% increase to VT gain
  • ect..

Upon defeating a player you will gain a flat amount of VT, we'll say 1. You will also gain VT based on a portion of how much VT that player had. We'll say 10% rounded up with a minimum of 1 VT gained from them then we'll apply the multipliers also rounded up. So the absolute minimum you can get from a kill is 2 VT. As an example lets say you flip a sentry. You now have 5% multiplier. You kill an enemy who has 100 VT. You get (1 + (100 * 0.1)) + ((1 + (100 * 0.1)) * 0.05) = 12 VT gained.

When the week ends you'll earn bonus VT based on where your server placed based on war score. To earn this bonus you'll have to reach a certain amount of participation but it'll have to be a rather easy to hit to bar. If you placed 1st everyone will earn 15% of their war score, 2nd 10%, and 3rd 5%. Everyone get something as long as they participated but the more you participate and the better you do the more you earn.

You will also earn less VT the more players in your group. Lets say 0.2% less per person. Not a ton less, but less. There is safety in numbers and that safety will come with its drawbacks. That means you will earn a whole 10% less in a full squad of 50. Chances are though you will still average more than a roamer because you'll have a higher multiplier from objective flipping.

What about support players?
This is a hard one. I don't really have a good solution at this time.

Spending VT
When you buy from the vendor the higher VT priced item you buy the more value you get. It would look something like:

  • 1 VT - 1 thing
  • 5 VT - 6 thing
  • 10 VT - 14 thing
  • 20 VT - 30 thing
  • 100 VT - 200 thing
  • ect..

You can cash out at almost any time and be happy with your reward. You could choose to risk your VT and save up for a bigger pay off though. The more you risk the more you will earn but the more you risk to lose. It might be a good idea to have a short cooldown on cashing out, say 10 minutes. That way players will be made to risk at least a little bit instead of just cashing out after every single kill.

Would this make current things like reward tracks and loot bags pointless?
Not really, you would still earn those rewards too. Those rewards would guarantee everyone earns something from WvW. This would just add a means for WvW players to make a comparable profit to PvE players. Maybe even a bigger profit if you're good.

What is this all suppose to add to the game mode?

Risk and reward.
There is actually individually impactful consequences for dying. The key is though that you will feel in control of your loss, and the loss is minimal.

Add monetary value.
A feasible money making method tied into the mechanics of the mode.

Promotes combat.
It's one of the major points of the game after all.

All this being said there are still a lot of issues with this idea. It will create more tension in the game mode which everyone may not be behind but I think it could really use it. Alright, tear the idea apart :#

Edits and Updates
1. I'm seeing suggestions that this would demote combat. It really depends on how you look at it. If you don't participate in combat you won't get rewarded. It's a gamble but not entirely based on chance because you know your own skill and can choose your encounters and how much you're risking. If you don't feel like risking your bonus reward then just cash in every chance you get. Could even have an item that allows you to do that on the go so you don't have to interrupt what you're doing. Participating would essentially be optional but it would be more profitable to participate because worst case you die don't earn that extra profit.

D/D core thief cause I hate myself.
Are You Proud Yet [DAD] is best guild.

Comments

  • Kaiser.9873Kaiser.9873 Member ✭✭✭

    Dunno if it's agood idea, or not, and will suspend judgement, BUT players that do not feel they are guaranteed a win in this scenario will just skip fights. Also there will be no more solo roamers left. Everything will be 5+.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A lot more bunkers,
    A lot more runners,
    A lot more 5 v 1 heroes,
    A lot less me.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kaiser.9873 said:
    Dunno if it's agood idea, or not, and will suspend judgement, BUT players that do not feel they are guaranteed a win in this scenario will just skip fights. Also there will be no more solo roamers left. Everything will be 5+.

    That's a good point. If they don't risk a fight though they won't earn any more reward. I don't think it would change solo roaming too much either as there already isn't really a huge upside to doing it now other than just enjoying it.

    @Justine.6351 said:
    A lot more bunkers,

    Maybe. If you don't secure the kill though you don't get rewarded.

    A lot more runners,

    I disagree. The same people will run that would have ran before. If they want to get rewarded though they have to fight. Besides wouldn't it be great to chase people down trying to flea for their lives to save their loot.

    A lot more 5 v 1 heroes,

    How more? As far as I'm aware if a larger group see's a smaller group now they will try to take them out. That wouldn't change.

    A lot less me.

    Why? This would be an added mechanic, everything that currently exists in WvW would stay the same.

    D/D core thief cause I hate myself.
    Are You Proud Yet [DAD] is best guild.

  • Etterwyn.5263Etterwyn.5263 Member ✭✭✭

    I just foresee giant bunker blobs with 1 or 2 backline DPS because everyone is scared to die. Losing your rewards if you die will become a brick wall for new or unskilled players.

    WvW™ - where you find more Red Rings of Death than an Xbox repair facility.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @Etterwyn.5263 said:
    I just foresee giant bunker blobs with 1 or 2 backline DPS because everyone is scared to die. Losing your rewards if you die will become a brick wall for new or unskilled players.

    Do you think losing 1/3 of what is essentially a bonus reward would be enough to detour players from fighting? I would think the idea of getting a bigger reward for getting kills would make people braver.

    D/D core thief cause I hate myself.
    Are You Proud Yet [DAD] is best guild.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like the concept, but in reality we'd just see more of the same. That is all good players grouping up on 1 or 2 servers to farm everybody else.

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    I like the concept, but in reality we'd just see more of the same. That is all good players grouping up on 1 or 2 servers to farm everybody else.

    True but I'm not really trying to address that problem. Things like profession balance and sever balance are outside the scope of my idea. Can't solve all the problems at once. :p

    D/D core thief cause I hate myself.
    Are You Proud Yet [DAD] is best guild.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    this game doesn't need another currency, along with more gold flow to swamp the market. I do like the general idea behind it tho.

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this game doesn't need another currency, along with more gold flow to swamp the market. I do like the general idea behind it tho.

    I thought about using an existing currency but it could have unexpected consequences on the value of that currency and the items tied to it. It would just be safer from an economic standpoint to use a new one, I think that's why there are so many to begin with. It's really not a detriment to the player. It's not like we have to manually manage the currency in any way.

    The gold flow I agree with but I also think that WvW players time should be just as valuable as a PvE players and have a comparable gold income. Maybe they could be traded for valuable account bound rewards instead but I'm not sure what those would be.

    D/D core thief cause I hate myself.
    Are You Proud Yet [DAD] is best guild.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2019

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    I thought about using an existing currency but it could have unexpected consequences on the value of that currency and the items tied to it. It would just be safer from an economic standpoint to use a new one, I think that's why there are so many to begin with. It's really not a detriment to the player. It's not like we have to manually manage the currency in any way.

    The gold flow I agree with but I also think that WvW players time should be just as valuable as a PvE players and have a comparable gold income. Maybe they could be traded for valuable account bound rewards instead but I'm not sure what those would be.

    sure there would have to be some small adjustments made, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that bit out.

    what is the reasoning behind wvw being profitable in terms of gold per hour? why not just go pve for a bit? how many people would stop playing pve altogether if wvw was just as lucrative? how long would queues be, and would those people actually be wanting to fight or would they run away at the first sight of trouble?

    The horror...…….the horror...…….the horror...…….

  • Zephyra.4709Zephyra.4709 Member ✭✭✭

    Whoa almost sounds like it should've been badges of honor.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019
    1. Zerg players will easily get more, even if you put penalties they will earn more kills and much faster than a roamer or small group in a week.
    2. If you want this to be proper then only apply it to all players not in a squad, or penalize the squad and don't give the bonuses. Zerg players already get safety in massive numbers, safety in organized groups using proper classes/specs, kill faster, take stuff faster, tag more earn more bags, earn participation faster. People want to break up zergs, then give the smaller groups more rewards. Doesn't stop multiple groups from running together, but at least it isn't as easy mode as a 50 person squad.
    3. Is the multiplier additive? if so to what amount? it probably should be capped, as well as put on a limited timer like participation, not until the objective being recapped.
    4. Don't really care for another currency, something that I won't bother keep tracking of just like participation, because at the end of the day there's no real reason to play out of your normal ways for a couple extra bags a week. Plus even more server side calculations is certainly not needed however minuscule it may be.

    WoW had an outdoor pvp zone called Ashran that you could earn currency from killing players and then use it to upgrade your base, like open up portals to areas or upgrade npcs etc, if you died you lost a percentage of currency I believe, been a while since I played there. That could be an interesting system instead of just giving out another generic reward at the end of the week. Imagine if you had to earn currency to purchase upgrades for your structures instead of just leaving it to auto supply delivery, a tier 3 upgrade would really be earned by the players then.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    WoW had an outdoor pvp zone called Ashran that you could earn currency from killing players and then use it to upgrade your base, like open up portals to areas or upgrade npcs etc, if you died you lost a percentage of currency I believe, been a while since I played there. That could be an interesting system instead of just giving out another generic reward at the end of the week. Imagine if you had to earn currency to purchase upgrades for your structures instead of just leaving it to auto supply delivery, a tier 3 upgrade would really be earned by the players then.

    Imagine? That was WvW before the skirmish system. And it was pretty crappy because it made the entire upgrade system revolve around players willing to spend their own cash on upgrades. The only thing lost was the choice of upgrades and manual activation (mostly replaced by tactivators) and thats the only thing I would like to see return. Otherwise its 10x better now. And of course tactivators still cost so customized objectives at a cost is a there anyway.

  • enkidu.5937enkidu.5937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019

    I very much like the idea of combining objectives and fighting. That could counter karma trains, that dodge almost every fight and just cap stuff. And it could counter self-proclaimed „fight“-servers, dodging fights they suppose to lose, and just let the objective being capped, because they dont care about PPT / winning the match.

    But I'd say, that losing the currency by being killed would still promote fight picking too much. Wasting your time on losing fights is big enough of a penalty imo. So if you want „calulateable risk / reward“, I could imagine a simple checkbox, that one can (re-)select for every skirmish or 5-minute interval:

    [X] lose 33% currency on death and get an extra 33% currency on kill

    So, by checking / un-checking the box, every single player could decide, if he wants to risk or not.

    Imo, these reward multipliers should especially be given in outnumbered fights, to make fight picking less of a thing. Maybe, on kill one wants to count all the red and green dots on the respective map sector, and give a much bigger reward multiplier the more the player is outnumbered. This could also promote roaming / small scale and make full-zone blobbing less attractive, since you can't be outnumbered with a full zone and thus miss multipliers.

    I would also give these multipliers not only for capping objectives, but also for defending objectives. And the multiplier for capping should also be higher, if the objective is defended. Since, capping objectives does not necessarily lead to fights, but defending an objective literally includes some kind of fighting by definition, since both, attackers and defenders are required. To avoid siege wars / AC slaughter fests, kills with siege should get a -multiplier.

    Just some thoughts, shot from the hip xD @ TO: keep up the good work :)

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    Imagine? That was WvW before the skirmish system. And it was pretty crappy because it made the entire upgrade system revolve around players willing to spend their own cash on upgrades. The only thing lost was the choice of upgrades and manual activation (mostly replaced by tactivators) and thats the only thing I would like to see return. Otherwise its 10x better now. And of course tactivators still cost so customized objectives at a cost is a there anyway.

    The system before was escorting kitten yaks from a camp to structure, I'm not talking about the spending gold part, that was not in the wow version and quite frankly stupid that Anet designed it that way while they starved wvw for rewards for 4 years. I'm talking about actually killing players for currency(instead of supplies) to spend for the upgrades, you know, what badges of honor probably should have been used for.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019

    Killing players to get loot which is sold for money so you can buy upgrades for objectives is not killing players for currency to spend for upgrades?

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I said should have been, that does not necessarily include what it is in it's current form.

    Kill player, get a currency, use it to purchase upgrades for your structures, it doesn't cost supplies, you don't that sell the currency in any form.

    Is that simple enough or would you like to interpret this example in yet another way?

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Cristalyan.5728Cristalyan.5728 Member ✭✭✭

    Any idea of increasing the value of WXp in the process of playing WvW is OK. But, in my opinion, what the OP suggests is a little too complicated. VT, value depending of the number of objectives, keep a track if you lost one, etc.

    I think we should start first with an increase in the amount of XP, then to see if this XP can have other values than raising your rank. An easy (and I think normal) method could be that the XP you obtain by killing a player to be no less than killing a NPC (if you kill a camp sentry you can have 25 XP. If you kill a player you can have 2 or 3 XP).

    In a hypothetical example, if you win a 1 vs 10 fight you can end earning 20 XP. By killing ONE camp sentry you gain 25 XP.

  • Kaiser.9873Kaiser.9873 Member ✭✭✭

    I have a pretty simple idea to make it more rewarding. Players that are actively contributing to the war score get a % bump to magic find, gold from monsters, and gathering for a set time limit in PvE-land. Every skirmish they participate they get a % bump up to say 10%. Bring in more players, make it so when WvW-centric players go to do anything in PvE they have a greater reward to time ratio, and perhaps convert some PvE-centric players into at least PvX.

  • Klipso.8653Klipso.8653 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What the mode needs is a 3rd borderland, and for the designation to be random which color gets what map.

    -Balwarc [ICoa]

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