Fair Balancing?

[alain.1659]

I would like to share my thoughts on this matter as a long time ranger player. I just played SB in wvw and I can say that sic em and general damage needs nerfing.

Someone said an ele can easily beat SB yet if you play right you can kite ele forever. To me they are easy to kill and I am not that good. Also I have enough cc chain with rock gazelle to bug some melee professions to hell. I can give several other reasons why SB needs a nerf in some areas (not core ranger but SB). But I can also give several reasons for other professions either. Spellbreakers, holosmiths etc you all know them.

It is not about having a one shot build, nearly every profession has one. But for a fair balance not only soulbeast but also other overperforming builds should be nerfed together. Without nerfing others, nerf to soulbeast would only hurt the game.And as a roamer, ranger should stay on top with thief as they lack proper zerg options.

There is one think that bugs me though, rangers unblockable should not bypass DH f3, as it is a profession ability. Although DH is already a dying profession.

[Obtena.7952]

@"Oxytocin.4239" said:https://imgur.com/a/ojB74qN

How is this fair balancing?

What makes you think Anet's goal is 'fair balancing' in the first place?

[melandru.3876]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@"Mokk.2397" said:Look at Mighty Blow on Guardian for example .

Gasp

Silence! I just discovered this last night! Lemme have fun on it please xD

A clip I took like half a year ago, I dont think anything about it has been nerfed, lol. Basicly delayed mighty blow + sheild explosion + judge instakill from 1200 range. No class in the game is capable of anything remotely close as they either have that damage at pointblank, at range but channeled, shorter teleport or they need to teleport before they can ramp up damage. Kind of obvious macro though, he did that every single time lol.

(before anyone say glass, that's on 1800 toughness)

those were 2 dragonhunters, not one as can be seen when they run away

[KelyNeli.4516]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"KelyNeli.4516" said:Berserker got nerfed back into the garbage state instantly after the rework, because one skill that happen to be difficult to set up was 3-shooting guys with mammoth reflex and it was so OP, but i guess humming missiles that hits for 10-15k from 1200 range are perfectly fine and no one from Arena net bothers about balancing it for so long.What a kitten joke.

Are you serious... "difficult to set up"? Signet of Fury -> F1 -> Blood Reckoning -> F1.

Arc Divider still has a maximum radius of 480. And for comparison, Meteor Shower has a radius of 360... That means point blank range two dodges backwards won't be enough to escape it, and you'll still get hit on the third strike. It was broken before and it was fixed. It's still extremely strong and capable of hitting upwards of 15 - 20k if all three hits connect. The difference is that now it doesn't hit for 10k+

per

hit.

I don't know how many times it needs to be said...

Change the way "Sic 'Em!" interacts with the Ranger either by reducing the damage bonus to 5 or 10% or by not allowing it to effect the Ranger at all.

It will still be capable of high damage even if "Sic 'Em!" is changed but it will be a lot more manageable. Not only that, it will open up other options on the skill bar for players who want to play high ranged DPS builds. As of right now you may as well be playing core Ranger if you don't take "Sic 'Em!" and want to be a glassy sniper.

Also, "difficult to set up" would apply a lot better to what has to be done to land the kind of bursts a 1 shot Soulbeast does.Merge with pet -> Maul -> "Sic 'Em!" -> "Strength Of The Pack!" (optional) -> Quickening Zephyr (optional) -> "We Heal As One!" -> Winter's Bite / or / Rapid Fire.You also need Marksmanship, Farsighted, Remorseless, Beastmastery and Honed Axes if you're going for a Winter's Bite build.

If it fails it's initial burst it's damage drops significantly but it will still hurt a lot. It's like a core shatter Mesmer. If you can avoid the initial spike you have a clear window to apply pressure while they have multiple skills/traits on cooldown.

And how do you get in the range to hit a berserker mode activation that is basically necessary due to the 21% damage bonus, since arc divider did have less base and scaling than Maul skill from SB?564 (1.4) Arc divider before nerf now 423 (1.05)706 (1.75) MaulOne is 4 second cooldown spam burst with high bonus to next attack, the other one need resources to be spend and hit for half as much.Do you think someone will just stand there looking at berserker literally running straight to him, wait to get hit with berserker activation and then 3x hit by arc divider with 1.25 sec casting speed?Berserker beside 33% movement speed in one utility spell has no mobility or anything that will allow him to close range range with anything, you could argue that he has something on GS like 5 skill that is so bad that locks him up during running or 3 which is the only spell useful in pvp to deal any damage, so he could burn it on mobility. So the real rotation for berserker would include all the skills that will allow him to close distance to his target.5 GS > probably 3 GS > Signet > F1 > Arc divider and you still cant guarantee you will hit everything, so you have to add some CC in the middle because even worst pvp player could run away from something like this, also you would want to activate another signet on 4 utility that will give you might so you will actually have a chance to kill, you also need to hit the enemy with something or your adrenaline will fall down before you have any occasion to activate berserker mode.Signet of rage (for might and boons) > GS 5 > GS 3 > CC skills > another CC skills (because target will try to clean out) > signet for adrenaline > berserker mode > F1.There are 8 steps in order to execute arc dividing burst properly and you have to be in the melee range.Meanwhile Soulbeast turn on few spells, burst down from range and does not need to be close, even if he miss it somehow he is still incredibly strong and has another burst ready to use, while berserker has nothing if he fuck up.Balanced duh.

Yes arc divider has 480, on third hit that does 141 x0.34 damage woooo so stronk, im sure soul beast could be jelly about that.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

@Oxytocin.4239 Perfectly balanced for MMORPGS. Thanks for posting.Seriously though, you must be new to mmo's.This MMO is very balanced.There is always a counter.The good mmos of past, didn't even try to hide it. The balance was in team fights and NOT in 1v1's.There were hard counters and every class couldn't heal, CC, Buff, DMG, AOE.

But cmon, you don't like getting crit? There is an ele build for that.Want to evade and kill this guy? Build for that.All kinds of things you could do if you want to counter these kinds of builds.You know this.

You got Ganked.Perfectly balanced.

Btw, I love how there is no context.Reminds me of the things that happen in politics and popular media.

Was that Ranger Joe Biden by chance?

[Arheundel.6451]

@Auburner.6945 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:The problem is not Rapidfire or GS skills, they are easily predictable/dodge-able. I got hit by auto attacks, 7k each, and the ranger could've had their auto-targeting up to make it even more challenging to land such high skill based auto attack from 1800 range. Just remove the damage increase based on range (it even defies physics), make them all as the lowest value of the three. Also, fix the damage modifiers, the base value of the auto attack and the co-efficient are almost the same as any other weapon, yet on SB with a 1800 range, it seems to hit the hardest.

Even still, if a ranger Auto-attack hits an average target in WvW; an average target runs some level of toughness. Most meta-comps run high levels of toughness. The auto-attack doesn't even crack 1500 damage. This is far from overpowered. We can't base how OP a class is based on them hitting people with little to no defense.

Here is a calculation showing that the damage is still high even vs players that build Toughness. An Elementalist has 1000 Toughness which is 1888 Armor. And Elementalist with 600 more Toughness will have 2500+ Armor.

Let's calcualte the skill's damage first of a SB on Full Marauder with Beastmastery and Wilderness Survival, and in beast mode (this example has no runes/sigils included still as not all will run Scholar/Pack for more damage): Skill damage = (Weapon strength

Power

Skill Co-eff.) = (1000

2500

0.9) = 2.25M, this number will come in handy below

Now let's calculate the damage this skill will do with modifiers and on crit: Modified damage = (Skill damage

Positive modifiers)/(Target's Armor

Negative modifiers) = (2.25M

1.1 "loud whistle"

1.07 "furious strength"

1.1 "oppressive superiority

2.2 "ferocity" * 1.4 "sic'em")/2500 = 3600 damage. That's 3600 damage vs a target that has wasted 600+ potential stats into Toughness to take 3600 from 1800 range at the start of a duel. Let alone that this 3600 was made if the SB has no runes or sigils equipped, and no boons but Fury, so imagine the damage with Might and offensive runes/sigils.

And not everyone runs Toughness as that of a full misntrel support. This gets even worse when a SB runs Marksmanship with Piercing and picks you in the middle of a zerg while they are at the roof, in this case, your support has nothing to do to save you, and this is one of the reasons why pin-sniping a commander exists... I would rather a cancerous pirate ship than this.

Now this is made even worse that the SB is not made of paper but can still survive and actually has the meta build on already, so it's not a d**keye that once the gap is closed is dead.

I sincerely wonder

how can an ele complain about a ranger

, hands down the easiest class to kill after guardian....I swear to god I am not trying to belittle you but..

out of all professions you complain about a glass ranger

that even a scrapping tempest can kill with reflects...I mean seriously man unless you're facing ROM or Boyce or Kiritsu..or any above average ranger ( who are quite few me not included) , killing a ranger with an ele should be a walk in the park...literally.

You talk about ranger when you as ele must face builds like holosmiths who sport a glass cannon dmg accompanied by ridiculous amounts of CC all the while having the sustain of an old celestial d/d ele...or a mirage and all its builds variations with all including distortion/stealth/teleports/condi spam......or a herald going around with perma 25 might, teleporting through walls critting you for 9k+ with their off hand sword regardless of your toughness...or a warrior..well you know well how tought it is...or a thief who can hit and teleport back at 1200 range non stop....

How can you possibly complain about rangers in this current balance?....Where do you see this ranger menace?....Do you play wvw by any chance? Because if you ..you know that the map is littered with unkillable holosmith, dashing spellbreakers, one shot mirage/chronos , s/d thieves for days ....but rarely these unicorn ranger builds spotted rarely and if you don't wvw then look at PvP, there are no rangers in the AT finals or before.....

S

I got hit on purpose by a SlB to prove a point. I don't face troubles as a roamer, but as a Staff backline I get pinned down by 2 auto attacks. Now we shouldn't just think of what Ele can do and can't do, but let's remember what we need to run as Ele to survive, yet that's not my point... a class that can 100-0 from 1800 range should never be left unharmed. Yeah Holo is disgusting and you can't kill a good one, one shot Mesmers are even worse than SlB, D/P thief that you cry your 130 range can land a skill on, a SpB that is a dead end, and many more, but they don't do that from only auto attacks. Auto attacks are the problem and the lack of risk. For Tournaments, a tournament comp differs than that of a Solo one, but what is more common of the two? It's like LoL, you watch the LCS with comps you will never run in Solo Q because they won't work, even pro players call some champions garbage in Solo Q but they work miracles in tournaments. So the idea of AT is invalid, Solo Q is the measurement unless there is a huge e-sport push that would require thinking on both sides, but is there?

I am aware of other builds, but 1800 range and 7k shouldn't exist on the same build.

I am giving priority to the builds which should be fixed first, I assume you're talking about wvw then....who do you think has more chances to die chasing his kill? a glass SB or a hammer herald who can still crit a zerg staff ele for upward of 10k dmg from 1200 range?

Your post comes down more like a personal vendetta than objective analysis ...you use a staff zerg ele build as example to prove your case when this build can be farmed by basically anything in this game because it's atrocious for anything but large fights.

How many builds has ele got to deal with a sb ranger pewpew? couple? few? ...now how many builds ele has to deal with well played holosmith- mirage or spellbreaker?...none?

[Arheundel.6451]

@melandru.3876 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@"Mokk.2397" said:Look at Mighty Blow on Guardian for example .

Gasp

Silence! I just discovered this last night! Lemme have fun on it please xD

A clip I took like half a year ago, I dont think anything about it has been nerfed, lol. Basicly delayed mighty blow + sheild explosion + judge instakill from 1200 range. No class in the game is capable of anything remotely close as they either have that damage at pointblank, at range but channeled, shorter teleport or they need to teleport before they can ramp up damage. Kind of obvious macro though, he did that every single time lol.

(before anyone say glass, that's on 1800 toughness)

those were 2 dragonhunters, not one as can be seen when they run away

What are you talking about?..it's one dragonhunter, the other is a clone response....

[Auburner.6945]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:The problem is not Rapidfire or GS skills, they are easily predictable/dodge-able. I got hit by auto attacks, 7k each, and the ranger could've had their auto-targeting up to make it even more challenging to land such high skill based auto attack from 1800 range. Just remove the damage increase based on range (it even defies physics), make them all as the lowest value of the three. Also, fix the damage modifiers, the base value of the auto attack and the co-efficient are almost the same as any other weapon, yet on SB with a 1800 range, it seems to hit the hardest.

Even still, if a ranger Auto-attack hits an average target in WvW; an average target runs some level of toughness. Most meta-comps run high levels of toughness. The auto-attack doesn't even crack 1500 damage. This is far from overpowered. We can't base how OP a class is based on them hitting people with little to no defense.

Here is a calculation showing that the damage is still high even vs players that build Toughness. An Elementalist has 1000 Toughness which is 1888 Armor. And Elementalist with 600 more Toughness will have 2500+ Armor.

Let's calcualte the skill's damage first of a SB on Full Marauder with Beastmastery and Wilderness Survival, and in beast mode (this example has no runes/sigils included still as not all will run Scholar/Pack for more damage): Skill damage = (Weapon strength

Power

Skill Co-eff.) = (1000

2500

0.9) = 2.25M, this number will come in handy below

Now let's calculate the damage this skill will do with modifiers and on crit: Modified damage = (Skill damage

Positive modifiers)/(Target's Armor

Negative modifiers) = (2.25M

1.1 "loud whistle"

1.07 "furious strength"

1.1 "oppressive superiority

2.2 "ferocity" * 1.4 "sic'em")/2500 = 3600 damage. That's 3600 damage vs a target that has wasted 600+ potential stats into Toughness to take 3600 from 1800 range at the start of a duel. Let alone that this 3600 was made if the SB has no runes or sigils equipped, and no boons but Fury, so imagine the damage with Might and offensive runes/sigils.

And not everyone runs Toughness as that of a full misntrel support. This gets even worse when a SB runs Marksmanship with Piercing and picks you in the middle of a zerg while they are at the roof, in this case, your support has nothing to do to save you, and this is one of the reasons why pin-sniping a commander exists... I would rather a cancerous pirate ship than this.

Now this is made even worse that the SB is not made of paper but can still survive and actually has the meta build on already, so it's not a d**keye that once the gap is closed is dead.

I sincerely wonder

how can an ele complain about a ranger

, hands down the easiest class to kill after guardian....I swear to god I am not trying to belittle you but..

out of all professions you complain about a glass ranger

that even a scrapping tempest can kill with reflects...I mean seriously man unless you're facing ROM or Boyce or Kiritsu..or any above average ranger ( who are quite few me not included) , killing a ranger with an ele should be a walk in the park...literally.

You talk about ranger when you as ele must face builds like holosmiths who sport a glass cannon dmg accompanied by ridiculous amounts of CC all the while having the sustain of an old celestial d/d ele...or a mirage and all its builds variations with all including distortion/stealth/teleports/condi spam......or a herald going around with perma 25 might, teleporting through walls critting you for 9k+ with their off hand sword regardless of your toughness...or a warrior..well you know well how tought it is...or a thief who can hit and teleport back at 1200 range non stop....

How can you possibly complain about rangers in this current balance?....Where do you see this ranger menace?....Do you play wvw by any chance? Because if you ..you know that the map is littered with unkillable holosmith, dashing spellbreakers, one shot mirage/chronos , s/d thieves for days ....but rarely these unicorn ranger builds spotted rarely and if you don't wvw then look at PvP, there are no rangers in the AT finals or before.....

S

I got hit on purpose by a SlB to prove a point. I don't face troubles as a roamer, but as a Staff backline I get pinned down by 2 auto attacks. Now we shouldn't just think of what Ele can do and can't do, but let's remember what we need to run as Ele to survive, yet that's not my point... a class that can 100-0 from 1800 range should never be left unharmed. Yeah Holo is disgusting and you can't kill a good one, one shot Mesmers are even worse than SlB, D/P thief that you cry your 130 range can land a skill on, a SpB that is a dead end, and many more, but they don't do that from only auto attacks. Auto attacks are the problem and the lack of risk. For Tournaments, a tournament comp differs than that of a Solo one, but what is more common of the two? It's like LoL, you watch the LCS with comps you will never run in Solo Q because they won't work, even pro players call some champions garbage in Solo Q but they work miracles in tournaments. So the idea of AT is invalid, Solo Q is the measurement unless there is a huge e-sport push that would require thinking on both sides, but is there?

I am aware of other builds, but 1800 range and 7k shouldn't exist on the same build.

I am giving priority to the builds which should be fixed first, I assume you're talking about wvw then....who do you think has more chances to die chasing his kill? a glass SB or a hammer herald who can still crit a zerg staff ele for upward of 10k dmg from 1200 range?

Your post comes down more like a personal vendetta than objective analysis ...you use a staff zerg ele build as example to prove your case when this build

can be farmed by basically anything in this game

because it's atrocious for anything but large fights.

How many builds has ele got to deal with a sb ranger pewpew? couple? few? ...now how many builds ele has to deal with well played holosmith- mirage or spellbreaker?...none?

We're on a WvW sub, why would I have PvP in consideration? Even if, GW2 is probably the last game I would leave other games to play its PvP? 4 Balance patches a year? You get 24+ patches a year playing LoL and look at the much dialogue you will go through vs a 5min long tweaks one-side paper (the balance team of LoL consists of 12, so don't put numbers as excuse). Since we'r talking WvW now, to each mode their own talk, and each of the two has differences in what is meta and what is not.

Now we're done with the game mode, I am addressing the thread's complain, it was all about SlB and nothing else, so why would I put up other builds even if it was 2018 face-roll Mirage? The talk is all about SlB here and I didn't put up any other non-related thing. If you were to put up a post telling everyone to rate the most brain-dead stuff yet broken, I would be glad to list them all... or maybe not... we all know things won't change, and as someone who has been in the game for 6months only I already know that, so the veterans are more wary of this than I will ever do.

That being said, I proved what's wrong with what the complain has been about, and speaking of priorities has no place in this thread as that's no listing rather than an issue with one of those on the list, not a comparison between them.

[SoV.5139]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@SoV.5139 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@SoV.5139 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@SoV.5139 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@SoV.5139 said:This is what the forum warriors lobbied in when they shouted down the bunker meta we used to have, which actually required some skill and produced far more long fights where people had to play their class.

Nowdays the flow chart is:Did you get the drop on your opponent?Yes: You win!No: You lose!

What'd we learn? Be careful what you ask for. You might get it, then complain harder than you did when shouting down a previous meta as lacking skill.

Both are not healthy.

Also, we do still have bunker builds, far greater than before as well. Many of which can not be killed without a very glassy build or +1. The problem is these two feed off each other to the point you have inverted the bell curve, that fewer people are running middle of the road builds and more people going to the extreme ends of bunker/support or pure spike builds. If you run any of the more "normal" builds, you will never kill the bunker, granted they will probably never kill you either, it just becomes annoying or you will be in range of a single spike rotation from a DPS build. Though I will say I would rather deal with the pure spike builds than some of the pure bunker builds with few exceptions.

Also, the bunker builds didn't require anymore skill (with some exceptions), many had/have pretty simple and well known rotations that you stick to and you will be just fine unless +1ed.

Part of the problem is that some of the spike builds have very high skill ceilings to pull off at all and survive. Others have very low skill floors, meaning the skill level to pull off with some success is very low, and +1ing can be blindfolded. The skill ceiling however also tends to be a bit lower as well in that on the upper end 1vs1 duels they don't perform very well.

Bunker meta required more skill and patience than anything displayed in any of the one shot kill videos in this thread. It also required patience, as fights were longer. Even when some folks have the skill, some of that subset lacks the patience, but in this one shot kill meta, they dont need it.

Alot of these folks do not understand cooldown management - they simply buff all the way up, then use their burst, then blow all their escapes, rinse repeat. If you did this in the bunker meta you would be outlasted unless someone was unprepared.

The 2012 to 2015 meta was far superior to this current one. Its not even close. Anyone attempting to compare the two and draw parity lacks objectivity, as its obvious to the extreme - like comparing the depth of a crack in the sidewalk to the depth of the Marianas Trench. Due to this transition to meta with far less of a skill floor/zero patience required etc... most of your skill ceiling folks have left, and the eSports all but dried up.

If you helped shout down the bunker meta claiming it was unskilled, congratulations, you are now getting exactly what you asked for and what you deserve, each and every time you are one shot killed.

When the forum warriors win, people actually playing the game lose. Just another example of many.

Why do you think going through the same rotations over and over for sustain is more skilled than the same rotations over and over for DPS? The low skill floor exists for both, and bunker and support builds have gotten stronger, if you don't think so, I really don't know what to tell you. Again, both extremes have increased. The DPS builds are more noticeable and complained about because people die to them, while bunker builds, unless you are face roll, will probably never kill you.

Also, I can't remember the last time I was 1 shot by anything, unless it was in a +1 +2 +3 situation. As I said, I would rather deal with 1 shot builds than bunkers or middle of the road builds. However, again, as I said, both are toxic, saying unkillable bunker build meta is better than burst meta is not true, they are both toxic, just in different ways. The game has so much creep at this point at both ends, it's a spam meta, nothing more.

Youre making it sound like its a choice between sustain OR damage, which is not true. The old school bunker meta required how to rotate through sustain AND damage.

Furthermore:Skill wise, having to rotate for sustain -and- dps while in battle > blowing a bunch of CDs on buffs when not in battle, then one shot killing. Some with slightly more skill (but still nowhere near the skill floor of old school bunker meta) will then use escape buttons afterward. Many do this EVEN WHEN they got the down, which shows that its a mere memorization of one sequence of button mashes, with no real thought or patience being out into it.

"The game has so much creep at this point at both ends, it's a spam meta, nothing more."

Heres where you and I agree. :p

I don't think we are talking about the same thing, unless you are talking about broken specs, as the bunkers of a few years ago didn't have damage, at least nothing to speak of that would kill you, however they were almost unkillable 1vs1. Now, some broken specs existed that could do both, like AH Guard builds back in the day before AH was nerfed into the ground. Good old Staff/Hammer. I think your bunker builds are my middle of the road builds, that have some DPS, but with some survivability built in.

Bunker specs have damage, they just arent optimized for it. GW2 used to have "attrition" builds, but this playstyle was eliminated when the forum warriors shouted it down as "unskilled play" because they kept being beaten by it (edit: and because they lack patience) and what they cant beat in game, they beat on the forums. This helped usher in the current era where DPS numbers are so high, and skill floors so low, that someone with a NES-Advantage mentality (hold down the Turbo button aaaahhhhh!!!!!) can win fights, which would not have happened in 2012-2015 unless matched against another mindless button masher.

It makes sense from a business perspective, as making low skill floor build have a high output makes more money (more people feel like they contribute). The con is eSports seeing this system (in its current state) as a joke, and moving away from GW2. This is why folks call WvW a "dead game mode" - not because no one is playing it, but because it no longer garners the attention it used to for actual competitive play.

That's middle of the road builds, what is called a bruiser build. You have survivability, but can still do decent DPS, those are not bunkers. Bunker is full speced into sustain, but don't do enough DPS to down anyone but a afk player. They call them bruiser and "attrition" builds and not bunkers for a reason.

Bunkers arent bunker due to their stats, but due to their abilities. You can build DPS into it, as many did back in 2012 - 2015, just not optimal DPS. I played a bunker druid which did not have an issue downing other characters, right after HoT came out, until massive creep and people QQing for nerfs drove it out of the META.

The main issue here is with all the creep, fights wont take long anyway, so less skill is involved, as well as less patience. This current (and the last few) META have been designed to attract lower skill floor players with far less time investment, as those with the time investment moved on.

[Substance E.4852]

@"Oxytocin.4239" said:https://imgur.com/a/ojB74qN

How is this fair balancing?

You know there's this thing called armor. It's provided by gear that has the toughness stat modifier.

Maybe try equipping some.

@santso.9201 said:i would like to see The bm+marksmanship oneshot build that actually has bruiser sustain. Or The ws variant that can do oneshots against anything but full zerker ele or thief.

I've tried the wombo combo ranger build on my regular zerging zerk/knights/soldiers setup and it's incredibly underwhelming

It will still hit reasonably hard against players who are god awful or silly people who play WvW with pve dps gear on but the damage falloff is huge against competent players.

You trade a lot of damage via crits for extra armor/hp and it makes the enemy dodging your bursts that much more punishing when you can't just auto them with the LB for 4k a hit.

[Evil.1580]

@Mil.3562 said:

@"Oxytocin.4239" said:

https://imgur.com/a/ojB74qN

How is this fair balancing?

Oh my gosh, that's more than 53k in less than a second?? No wonder players with high vitality and toughness are being killed from their mount instantly.

How did you assume it is for less than a second.I say it is for 59 sec and OP was staying AFK there just to take this screenshot.Ranger abilities are super telegraphed and easy to spot. If you are able to hold a mouse and a KB with your 2 hands and if you can see with your eyes you can do several things: hide behind an object and wait for the 10 sec window that the ranger has to burst all his damage and then he is easy target with all cooldowns; dodge 1-2 times and literally avoid everything; reflect+ block + invulnerability - I don't know, all classes but necro has like 12 invunerability skills each? Once the ranger burst all his skills he has to run and hope he don't die.This is literally L2P issue. I mean, just pressing the num lock forward to auto run away will not work, you know? :)

Also, I want to ask a question to all of you who are asking for ranger nerfs.Where is the ranger in high tier or organized groups in PvP? Nowhere, literally he is hard countered by skilled players, which further confirms that it is literally L2P issue. He is a very narrow niche spec which is good in very little things and can't even compare to necros, fbs, spellbreakers, heralds, holos etc. DPS ranger can find his top spot in silver and gold tier - that's all.Where is the ranger in squad fights, which commander wants rangers in its squad? All his abilities but barrage are blocked or reflected - he is not able to do anything in squad fights.Where is the dps ranger in raids, is it top tier dps? Who prefer ranger dps over weaver, for example?

You want to beat a dead horse, good job!

[Lazze.9870]

@"Hitman.5829" said:As for the ranger gretsword damage it is obviously exaggerated and needs nerfing.

Yes, the weapon commonly known as a nuddle stick not too long ago needs nerfing after a few buffs that it absolutely needed... Comparing it to the warrior greatsword is stupid to begin with as they are completely different takes on melee weapons: the ranger gs has always been pvp oriented with its skillset, while the warrior gs not so much. And in pve, ranger still relies on sic' em for this "EXAGGERATED" weapon to even compete in raids. Both power warrior and guardian, both using greatsword in their respective power raid builds, outdps power soulbeast.

I don't wanna hear any shit about how "that's pve". The whining people in this thread use all kinds of best case scenarios, so why not refer to an actual meter in terms of damage potential. Any nerfs to ranger needs to be directed at soulbeast (and it needs to be split from pve because it clearly still struggles to keep up with other classes in that gamemode) not its core component. There is NOTHING exaggerated about the damage potential of core ranger, and that includes the gs.

As for these "overpowered SB roamers" in wvw, I have yet to lose a single one of them. Probably because I know the class better than you do.

[Euthymias.7984]

Sure, "Fair Balancing" for Rangers when they dismembered Druid constantly before kneecapping it again recently, even when it wasnt performing too well in sPvP."Fair Balancing" for Rangers when their core pets have been neglected for years and some are only recently due to Soulbeast's Merged UtilitiesIf you're going to nerf or shave things, you'd damn well better fix the messes made too. That's fair balancing.

[Arheundel.6451]

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:Nerf the amount of boons soulbeast has, remove several modifiers and call it a day. Core Ranger is not the issue and if they nerf weapons based and utilities based on a elite spec then core ranger will become trash; While soul-beast will be just fine. The modifiers soul-beast gets with its traitline, and the other traitlines together is a huge "Ooopsie" on a-nets part; It shouldn't get that many and should not have the boon uptime it does.

I agree that it shouldn't be capable of this level of burst, no class should regardless of arch-type. Being one-shot or completely kitten on with no chance of countering it is lame; Especially if you are already in a fight and then it joins in while you're pre-occupied and there is nothing you can do about it. Mounts should not be doing the damage that the above video shows; Not in a mode where pvp is accessible. Soul-beast needs to be wacked hard; Nerfed so that it can't do what has been shown but DO NOT TAKE IT OUT ON CORE RANGER.

Core seems to be fine, I don't have issues fighting them and don't have problems playing as one. My main is a Rev and I can tell you this, A soul-best will mess me up without worldly Impact or rapid-fire. Eventually I will get cc'd and mauled and the maul will burst me down pretty handily; I also dabble with warrior, engie(Scrapper) and core ranger. It's soul-beasts one shotting me off my mount before I can even attack or know the attack is coming. I know some of it might be an awareness thing on my part; But I shouldn't be getting completely decimated in one attack with a bruiser/sustain build. ( I do not run glass- cannon either.)

The same nerfs you ask for , should be applied to rev too..going around with 25 might all day and that 9k+ off sword crits should not be a thing given that level of sustain..

[Atticus.7194]

@Anput.4620 said:Maul and Worly Impact, literally 2 most dodgable skills next to Deaths Judgment.

Usually but in wvw it's so easy to hit people with it in the middle of a buncha melee

[alain.1659]

Problem is beastmastery line and soulmerge synergy. Adjust that and soulbeast is good to go.

And for the love of god do something about druid. Only elite I really wanted to play sucks even from the beginning. Who the hell thought staying in CA for nanoseconds would make players happy?

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Thornwolf.9721" said:Nerf the amount of boons soulbeast has, remove several modifiers and call it a day. Core Ranger is not the issue and if they nerf weapons based and utilities based on a elite spec then core ranger will become trash; While soul-beast will be just fine. The modifiers soul-beast gets with its traitline, and the other traitlines together is a huge "Ooopsie" on a-nets part; It shouldn't get that many and should not have the boon uptime it does.

I agree that it shouldn't be capable of this level of burst, no class should regardless of arch-type. Being one-shot or completely kitten on with no chance of countering it is lame; Especially if you are already in a fight and then it joins in while you're pre-occupied and there is nothing you can do about it. Mounts should not be doing the damage that the above video shows; Not in a mode where pvp is accessible. Soul-beast needs to be wacked hard; Nerfed so that it can't do what has been shown but DO NOT TAKE IT OUT ON CORE RANGER.

Core seems to be fine, I don't have issues fighting them and don't have problems playing as one. My main is a Rev and I can tell you this, A soul-best will mess me up without worldly Impact or rapid-fire. Eventually I will get cc'd and mauled and the maul will burst me down pretty handily; I also dabble with warrior, engie(Scrapper) and core ranger. It's soul-beasts one shotting me off my mount before I can even attack or know the attack is coming. I know some of it might be an awareness thing on my part; But I shouldn't be getting completely decimated in one attack with a bruiser/sustain build. ( I do not run glass- cannon either.)

The same nerfs you ask for , should be applied to rev too..going around with 25 might all day and that 9k+ off sword crits should not be a thing given that level of sustain..

I never said it shouldn't? I don't want boon spam on ANY class period. Herald should be our healer spec that synergies with ventari and provides buffs and heals to the party as that to me was what I assumed it was meant to be. A shield rework to push it in that direction and a direct nerf to damage would help alot for that; I don't feel anyone should run around with perma 25+ Stacks of any boon.

And just because my main is a rev doesn't mean I use that specific build, Im running core rev and a condi rev at that and sure im at a disadvantage while doing so but I have fun playing it. I do fine but people only talk about "Herald" you're not talking about rev when you talk about the boon spam as I can't keep that level of might on me as a core rev, it's strictly the elite spec that allows for that level of power-build play. I got so tired of running Glint+Shiro that I refuse to do so now and I despise renegade as it currently is(Despite how hyped I was for it.) I get bodied by herald burst all the time and I sit here and shake my head because it is the best build for rev right now, outside of a healer/boon spam. (Hammer builds are up there too, but its just herald running around with hammer rather than Sword+Sword and usually that rev has swords in his bag for when ranged is not needed.)

And like I said don't take it out on the core class, the spec is the problem not the core and thats just how it is. With all of you running around complaining about "Rev" rather than "Herald" I won't be surprised if A-net just nerfs the overall class into the ground. Because you aren't calling out the problem you're rationalizing and generalizing all rev's as the problem when we aren't we just don't have decent alternatives. You either go power/healer+boon-spam in pvp/wvw or prepare to die ALOT, because you won't have alot of tools to handle specific encounters.

[TorQ.7041]

@Auburner.6945 said:The problem is not Rapidfire or GS skills, they are easily predictable/dodge-able. I got hit by auto attacks, 7k each, and the ranger could've had their auto-targeting up to make it even more challenging to land such high skill based auto attack from 1800 range. Just remove the damage increase based on range (it even defies physics), make them all as the lowest value of the three. Also, fix the damage modifiers, the base value of the auto attack and the co-efficient are almost the same as any other weapon, yet on SB with a 1800 range, it seems to hit the hardest.

Not to have an opinion on any other stuff. Just about the defying physics. In the real world travel distance at a certain amount actually increases dmg. This is because an arrow or bullet needs to generate momentum. Of course over a longer distance the arrow would fell and do nothing. But an arrow drawn pressed against your chest would do less dmg than if you were shot a few feet away.

[Auburner.6945]

@TorQ.7041 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:The problem is not Rapidfire or GS skills, they are easily predictable/dodge-able. I got hit by auto attacks, 7k each, and the ranger could've had their auto-targeting up to make it even more challenging to land such high skill based auto attack from 1800 range. Just remove the damage increase based on range (it even defies physics), make them all as the lowest value of the three. Also, fix the damage modifiers, the base value of the auto attack and the co-efficient are almost the same as any other weapon, yet on SB with a 1800 range, it seems to hit the hardest.

Not to have an opinion on any other stuff. Just about the defying physics. In the real world travel distance at a certain amount actually increases dmg. This is because an arrow or bullet needs to generate momentum. Of course over a longer distance the arrow would fell and do nothing. But an arrow drawn pressed against your chest would do less dmg than if you were shot a few feet away.

I mean, it's not a car that accelerates so for it to gain momentum. The momentum is generated as it resists the string. P = mv, the velocity would be the same for both at the start and at the end at the same height with no resistance, making it in the game go as highest damage for lowest range, lowest at mid, and middle damage the furthest. That is if I still remember all the stuff taken in the high level course.

[TorQ.7041]

@Auburner.6945 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@Auburner.6945 said:The problem is not Rapidfire or GS skills, they are easily predictable/dodge-able. I got hit by auto attacks, 7k each, and the ranger could've had their auto-targeting up to make it even more challenging to land such high skill based auto attack from 1800 range. Just remove the damage increase based on range (it even defies physics), make them all as the lowest value of the three. Also, fix the damage modifiers, the base value of the auto attack and the co-efficient are almost the same as any other weapon, yet on SB with a 1800 range, it seems to hit the hardest.

Not to have an opinion on any other stuff. Just about the defying physics. In the real world travel distance at a certain amount actually increases dmg. This is because an arrow or bullet needs to generate momentum. Of course over a longer distance the arrow would fell and do nothing. But an arrow drawn pressed against your chest would do less dmg than if you were shot a few feet away.

I mean, it's not a car that accelerates so for it to gain momentum. The momentum is generated as it resists the string. P = mv, the velocity would be the same for both at the start and at the end at the same height with no resistance, making it in the game go as highest damage for lowest range, lowest at mid, and middle damage the furthest. That is if I still remember all the stuff taken in the high level course.

http://www.kslinternationalarchery.com/Equipment/ArrowSpeed.html

I dunno about high level stuff. If you Google it. It ll tell you. I just learnt about it in my crim class on getting shot with diff guns. Some guys it's better to be shot point blank cos it didn't general velocity to create maximum impact. There's a sweet spot of travel before it hits max dmg. Not making it up. Google it.