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It's time to start banning addons and 3rd party tools


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@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@"Stalkingwolf.6035" said:Ban 2nd monitor too!and all those guides!

srsly. where to start and where to end?Taco markers you use two times and you know where to run.Its the same as watching a guide on youtube on the 2nd monitor

You don't understand the point of this debate. It is not about
hardware
. You can use as many monitors as you want. This debate is about
software
. Pieces of code running on your computer. And giving you a clear advantage over the players don't using them. You don't believe me? Look at your own statement:"Taco markers you use two times and you know where to run". And now: what about
not
using the markers? How will be you able to know where to run? And how long it will take to learn where to run?

Conclusion - nobody complained about the hardware. One, two, ... ten monitors, it is up to you. Normal cooling fan, water cooling system, liquid gas cooling system - it is up to you - you will not find the way to the third egg faster in this way. Normal CPU or overclocked CPU - it is up to you.

But third party
software
putting me at risk in a game sold as "safe" and giving me a clear advantage over the other players don't using it .... this is not OK.

So apparently you don't use youtube guides to obtain mounts to help you save time and know where you need to go either. Personally I think people need to stop worrying about what other players are doing and just play your own game. That's the great thing about GW2. You can play what ever character you want how ever you want to play it and do what ever you like in game. You want PVE do it PVP do it, WVW do it dungeons only do it. You are always going to run into toxic players that has nothing to do with software either.If you've ever watched a youtube video to assist you with a story, or a mission, or an achievement etc. Or asked a friend or a guild member to help you do something that is also the same thing as using Taco. Or Teleport to a friend.

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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:Tac0 markers are literally in-game advantages and cheating over those that don't have them. Especially for Adventures, Races, Holiday events and Jumping Puzzles.

But the thing is none of those activities are competitive events so it doesn't matter if someone else has an advantage over me. The only exception I can think of is the beetle races where you do actually get more rewards for finishing in the top three. But that's a really marginal example . . .

As to the OP's concern I don't think a compelling case can be made that anet's current policy of allowing everything unless it is banned is demonstrably better (or worse) from a gameplay perspective than the OP's proposed policy of banning everything unless it is allowed. But anet's policy is far superior from a business perspective, saves a lot of time and resources and achieves roughly the same result . . .

Farming gold and gold/hour is
ALWAYS
a competitive event.

I don't think I understand what you mean. Who are you competing with and how does their behavior affect your outcomes . . ?

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:Plug-ins, overlays, and other sorts of 3rd party tools are here to stay.

There will always be some players objecting to 3rd party mods, that is also here to stay.

True.(There are also people claiming the earth is flat; that, too, is here to stay.)

Probably the same people claiming that mods are here to stay...

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@Shiyo.3578 said:This is only the beginning. As Anet continues to ignore these 3rd party tools, they will only get more complex and automate more things until we have people with full-fledged bots being commonly shared between most players of the player base.

And how, exactly, would this adversely affect your play in the game? I don't use any of these tools, and I have yet to see how someone else's use of them impacts me when I'm playing.

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There is nothing wrong with addons. The OP is free to install them, use them, and reap the benefit from them like any other player. If they choose to not, that is their choice, and their preferences shouldn't be imposed on other players.

My current computer is living on borrowed time, so I don't run any addons that could impact performance. While I would love to have TACO installed for JPs, I'm just as fine letting Mesmer players use it and port me up.

TLDR: just because the OP doesn't want to use something doesn't mean that nobody else should be allowed to either.

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There was a Case about some other dps meter as i recall that had some things that violated TOS it was soon removed users baned, and OP statment is ban everything even browsers there are 3rd party to to lookout guides. just like Spanish Inquisition and nobody expects:

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@"Gop.8713" said:I don't think I understand what you mean. Who are you competing with and how does their behavior affect your outcomes . . ?A lot of the player base, because everyone is farming gold.

"Anyone can use the addons it's not ok to ban them!!" is not a good argument. Everyone has access to bots and hacks, should we not ban them too? No, your game needs to be moderated and Anet is completely ignoring the out of control addon situation that is only going to get worse and worse the more they ignore it.

I mean, you already have people who think it's not against the rules to use these addons because Anet has ignored it for so long - that's all the proof you need to see it's an issue.

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@Shiyo.3578 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:I don't think I understand what you mean. Who are you competing with and how does their behavior affect your outcomes . . ?A lot of the player base, because everyone is farming gold.

"Anyone can use the addons it's not ok to ban them!!" is not a good argument. Everyone has access to bots and hacks, should we not ban them too? No, your game needs to be moderated and Anet is completely ignoring the out of control addon situation that is only going to get worse and worse the more they ignore it.

I mean, you already have people who think it's not against the rules to use these addons because Anet has ignored it for so long - that's all the proof you need to see it's an issue.

Except you are wrong. ANET does enforce the rules against addons that violate their TOS, and does ban players who use them. Players running arcDPS or TACO, two mods you mentioned, aren't being banned because the addon doesn't violate ANET TOS, not because they are ignoring an infraction.

So the argument isn't "anyone can use the addons it's not ok to ban them", but ANET doesn't ban these addons because the don't break their rules, so there is no need to ban them. That you think it's unfair that some players use them to get an advantage is your own problem, because you have the same opportunity to use these addons as them.

If you see an addon you think breaks the TOS rules, by all means report it to ANET via the reporting tool.

Using addons that don't violate ANET's TOS is not unfair in any way.

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I like how ANet has persistently stated that mods are allowed as they don't break ToU.

Stop making up excuses about how they are an advantage just because you don't want to put mods on your client yourself. Nothing stated by ANet has been against mods and nothing about mods gives an "advantage" because everyone is equally allowed to apply these mods

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@Shiyo.3578 said:A lot of the player base, because everyone is farming gold.

I dont farm gold i play the game for lore, friends and general fun, why i should be making a Game my 2nd job? You said EVERYONE

I dont have problems with Overlays, many my friends use it in raid to check and improve their numbers i dont but i dont have a problem with it i never been scolded(shamed) for not using it/them if you have a problem with that ppl block them and move on its just a Game your Mom not gona get murdered with Rake if you dont make enough money in game daily, or Im wrong?

And you didnt answered question do you use a browser to look for guides/builds? thats a 3rd party program Anet didnt make a browser nor they not saying what browser you can Use too thats a violation.

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@"Shiyo.3578" said:The amount of addons for this game is getting overboard, and they offer a huge advantage over people using the base game. Either officially support addons via an in game UI with a trusted store like the google store/apple store, or start to ban these.

There's addons that:Help you finish map completion for core tyria in less than half the time.Make it easier to mount via radial menus.(Should be in the base game)Damage meters(these are fine tbh though)Markers on the map for gather routes(should be base in the game).As well as many others I don't even know about.

If you continue to ignore them, they will only get more and more complex and automated and there will be so many of them you won't be able to keep track. It will become standard practice to use tons of these for users despite them being "against the rules" and people who play legit will be left behind or mocked for not using them.

It's time to crack down on these 3rd party tools that are against the TOS. Ban all of them, and put any good useful ones you deem appropiate into your base game.

The problem is everyone in game has the opportunity to utilize these, yet they don’t.

There’s plenty of guides and forum discussions that people should know that they can use these third party add ons.The rule for third party add on is does it make the person physically play better. The only true add on would be dodge jump macro. But Anet has allowed it for sab.

As for taco, it’s a map overlay for you to see chests, jps etc. but everyone has the opportunity to use it. It’s usually for noobies that don’t know the route, but you can use it so it makes you play less time then without it.

None of these add on make you play better then the players who don’t have it. People who don’t have it don’t have problems farming. The point is, if you played a long time in game you should already know the routes without it. But taco does not give you an advantage over another player. It’s practically the same as a guide. But should guides be banned since it makes players not take longer then not seeing the guide?

As for arc, there’s nothing against the rule Anet gave. All it shows is numbers. And you use them for templates so you don’t waste as much time. Anet helped the dev who made arc, and clearly it’s ok to use in game. If it wasn’t, major raiders in game who make build guides for gw2 community would be banned. Only way to ban it is if Anet creates their own. But there is no set date. All Anet said was it’s in the works, it’s practically their same statement about wvw alliance.

All I see is a person who doesn’t understand the game and complains because they are doing things the hard way when there’s plenty of guides/ways to make your playing easier. But you want to throw it all away when you don’t know the easy way of the game without it. In a side note, your hurting yourself in how you could play the game.

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@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Make it easier to mount via radial menus.(Should be in the base game)

Genuine question: in what way is a radial mount menu helpful? It seems to me it would be significantly more of a faff than using hotkeys, and no less of a faff than using the existing menu.

It would only be helpful for those who have run out of available / reachable keys. I'm with you, I have a key bound to each mount, so I see no reason to fiddle with an addon, but people who use them have their reasons to do so. /shrug

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@sokeenoppa.5384 said:I see discord profile pictures of my friends ingame who are in Voice chat with me, its overlay.. should we Ban discord?

Voice chat by itself also provides an advantage when doing group content so yes all voice chat programs need to be banned as well.

A mouse with additional buttons is also a significant advantage. For example you can bind each mount to a different key! If the radial mount addon is too much of an advantage then this is an even bigger advantage.

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There are many add-ons in general, for games, that do no harm, so I don't understand such an aggressive stance against them.

I never used add-ons in GW2, but I use add-ons in other games and they a) come from an official site, b) can be installed and updated via approved software (Minion e.g.) and c) give no advantage to users what you speak of. Even GW2 add-ons do no automation, which is the only thing that can be considered aid. Revealing something on maps? In PvE? That's not cheating. You do no harm to other players by knowing where to go in a PvE area. Pve content is all about every individual player, and some instances are for groups, but it's not PvP.

The only things that are toxic for games are hacks and macros. In ESO e.g. there's an add-on called Destinations that shows on map the location of all shrines and so on, which is very helpful, because they world there is so huge finding them would take ages for some. And it's a) entirely optional and b) completely legal.

No one is stopping you from using add-ons too. If you want to do map completion faster, grab one, but don't come here like Trump or some other radical that you want to ban this and ban that. That's a very childish and ignorant stance tbh.

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These addons are undermining the core qualities of the game.

I'm fine with things like dps meters, but as soon as we start to go into complicated macros, addons that show you everywhere you need to go(giving you real tangible advantages) etc we have a problem. And don't dare claim they don't give a real advantage - that's the very reason they are used to gain advantage, if they didnt you wouldn't be pulling all your bad excuses out trying to make them look irrelevant.

All who gain power are afraid to lose it.

It's a matter of principle of a clean gaming environment or to look to other way to things that change the way you can play the game. The people who pay the price are the honest players, who doesn't wanna use programs to cheat and simplify the game.

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@Crackmonster.2790 said:These addons are undermining the core qualities of the game.

I'm fine with things like dps meters, but as soon as we start to go into complicated macros, addons that show you everywhere you need to go(giving you real tangible advantages) etc we have a problem. And don't dare claim they don't give a real advantage - that's the very reason they are used to gain advantage, if they didnt you wouldn't be pulling all your bad excuses out trying to make them look irrelevant.

All who gain power are afraid to lose it.

It's a matter of principle of a clean gaming environment or to look to other way to things that change the way you can play the game. The people who pay the price are the honest players, who doesn't wanna use programs to cheat and simplify the game.

And you're saying dps meters don't provide an advantage?

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No, i'm just saying i'm okay with them. It's such an integrated and belowed part of mmo's today, that i think it would be stupid to try to ban them.

Stuff telling you everywhere you need to go, giving you clear advantages and shortcuts and undermining the intended way to interact with the game is something else entirely. It's destroying the soul of the game. And the honest player pays the price.

Hands down i think dps meter and improved mounting should be baseline in the game.

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@"Crackmonster.2790" said:These addons are undermining the core qualities of the game.

I'm fine with things like dps meters, but as soon as we start to go into complicated macros, addons that show you everywhere you need to go(giving you real tangible advantages) etc we have a problem. And don't dare claim they don't give a real advantage - that's the very reason they are used to gain advantage, if they didnt you wouldn't be pulling all your bad excuses out trying to make them look irrelevant.

All who gain power are afraid to lose it.

It's a matter of principle of a clean gaming environment or to look to other way to things that change the way you can play the game. The people who pay the price are the honest players, who doesn't wanna use programs to cheat and simplify the game.

Careful, you're going to attract a lot of dogs with all this whistling. But hey, at least the word justice never appeared in your post.

You choose to not use the mods available. Any "price" you pay is one you choose to pay with your decisions. There is no clean gaming environment. You are not any more virtuous, honorable or honest a player vs. someone else who uses TACO. You are just a player who makes the conscious choice to not use a mod that others are using, then comes to the forums to complain about things not being fair. The only person holding you back is you.

So tell yourself whatever you want, and post about it as much as you wish. The mods aren't going anywhere as there is nothing illegal about them per ANETs TOU, and should that ever change, we know they will take action and have them banned as we've seen it in the past. Believe it or not they care more about this game than you do.

Nobody can stop you from wallowing in victimhood, but I would encourage you to realize that you are not being oppressed or taken advantage of, and the only reason you aren't reaping the benefits of using a mod is because you make the conscious choice to not use them, which is totally fine, but that doesn't then give you license to call foul when other players avail themselves of readily available tools that pass developer muster.

And I'm saying this as someone who has no mods installed on his system...

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Every time I hear guildie say to another when we do guild missions "hey, just use taco, it will show you the path and all traps for race", I have to roll my eyes. When you can't bother to play the game, it's time to stop and do something else.Reminds me of a friend who came from WoW and complained how few skills gw2 has and thus it's boring and easy. He forgot he put his entire rotation on a single button in WoW, because pressing multiple buttons in a video game that you're playing for fun is apparently too much these days.

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