Can't be rezzed for 10 seconds after entering the down state — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Can't be rezzed for 10 seconds after entering the down state

Ryudnard.2587Ryudnard.2587 Member ✭✭
edited May 10, 2019 in WvW

In WvW, when you managed to beat someone go down, the guy shouldn't be rezzed up right away. Or not. I dunno. Is 10 seconds too long? I just think we cannnot completely disable the rezzing mechanism, but we should be able to punish more by making the players go down.

Can't be rezzed for 10 seconds after entering the down state 85 votes

Consierable idea
18%
saerni.2584joneirikb.7506Liston.9708Burnfall.9573DerJoker.9081Kolisch.4691RedShark.9548spectrito.8513Ryudnard.2587penguin.9271Juhojr.5741Anput.4620Duckota.4769Doug.4930ruller.2084Kampfkarpfen.2859 16 votes
NO
81%
godfat.2604Sciva.4865TheGrimm.5624Loosmaster.8263Svarty.8019Ciriaco.9863Stand The Wall.6987LINKAZZATORE.8135xikira.3264XenesisII.1540Undo.5091Sigmoid.7082Blockhead Magee.3092Nimrod.9240Dawdler.8521Susy.7529Etienne.3049catalyst.1358Kylden Ar.3724LetoII.3782 69 votes

Comments

  • NuhDah.9812NuhDah.9812 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 10, 2019

    It's an interesting idea, but i'd go for 3 or 5 seconds instead of 10. Suficiently enough to pull of a stomp and revitalize stomping usage in the current combat system.

  • Ryudnard.2587Ryudnard.2587 Member ✭✭
    edited May 10, 2019
    Consierable idea

    @Klipso.8653 said:
    10 seconds in a zerg fight might as well be 10 hours

    Hmm yeah, I agree. Somewhere between 4 to 7 seconds then?

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    imo 5 seconds would be acceptable

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    I don't even get to use my Vapor Form (even when spamming) if I were out of position and got downed. 10s will only mean something in Outnumbered small fights, but to be honest, downstate is what makes us win Outnumbered small fights: They try to rez, they die rez'ing.

    1800 range Unstoppable Union Sic' Em 웃l) --> 10k --> 9k --> 11k --> 10k --> 10k PepeHands = PepeRIP

  • I missed the first few "no down state events". And I got to do the last one. Just remove downstate in wvw. Leave it in the other game modes. (Maybe remove it from pvp) .

    Best way of wvw ever. Made me feel like I was playing DAoC again. It was awesome.

    No down state really elevates the skill level needed to wvw because you don't have that oh if I die my team will get me back up and rally bot mentality.

  • Kaiser.9873Kaiser.9873 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    @Assassin X.8573 said:
    I missed the first few "no down state events". And I got to do the last one. Just remove downstate in wvw. Leave it in the other game modes. (Maybe remove it from pvp) .

    Best way of wvw ever. Made me feel like I was playing DAoC again. It was awesome.

    No down state really elevates the skill level needed to wvw because you don't have that oh if I die my team will get me back up and rally bot mentality.

    Except it really doesn't relate to "skill" at all. It's pure burst mode. You play a burst class, you win, OR if you have great passive traits, you win. There's a reason no downstate week was all beserkers and pew pew soulbeasts. Build tanky they say. It doesn't help. I ran nothing but Beserker all week. Had a blast on my Beserker, but it wasn't skill.

  • Assassin X.8573Assassin X.8573 Member ✭✭
    edited May 10, 2019

    @Kaiser.9873 said:

    @Assassin X.8573 said:
    I missed the first few "no down state events". And I got to do the last one. Just remove downstate in wvw. Leave it in the other game modes. (Maybe remove it from pvp) .

    Best way of wvw ever. Made me feel like I was playing DAoC again. It was awesome.

    No down state really elevates the skill level needed to wvw because you don't have that oh if I die my team will get me back up and rally bot mentality.

    Except it really doesn't relate to "skill" at all. It's pure burst mode. You play a burst class, you win, OR if you have great passive traits, you win. There's a reason no downstate week was all beserkers and pew pew soulbeasts. Build tanky they say. It doesn't help. I ran nothing but Beserker all week. Had a blast on my Beserker, but it wasn't skill.

    I run zerk armor since release and celestial accessories on my war since they implemented celestial. Nothing changed in my survivability. I was actually able to out last more 1v2 or 1v3 even 1v4s because I didn't have to worry about stopping a rally or steady 1v+1 back to back fights than with normal ds rules. I didn't have to change my play style to compensate for downstate.

    It was even more apparent with Zerg v Zerg battles because it did showcase which Commanders or guilds did better or worse with and without the rally bot effects.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    NO

    Makes no sense at all...

  • Kaiser.9873Kaiser.9873 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    @Assassin X.8573 said:

    @Kaiser.9873 said:

    @Assassin X.8573 said:
    I missed the first few "no down state events". And I got to do the last one. Just remove downstate in wvw. Leave it in the other game modes. (Maybe remove it from pvp) .

    Best way of wvw ever. Made me feel like I was playing DAoC again. It was awesome.

    No down state really elevates the skill level needed to wvw because you don't have that oh if I die my team will get me back up and rally bot mentality.

    Except it really doesn't relate to "skill" at all. It's pure burst mode. You play a burst class, you win, OR if you have great passive traits, you win. There's a reason no downstate week was all beserkers and pew pew soulbeasts. Build tanky they say. It doesn't help. I ran nothing but Beserker all week. Had a blast on my Beserker, but it wasn't skill.

    I run zerk armor since release and celestial accessories on my war since they implemented celestial. Nothing changed in my survivability. I was actually able to out last more 1v2 or 1v3 even 1v4s because I didn't have to worry about stopping a rally or steady 1v+1 back to back fights than with normal ds rules. I didn't have to change my play style to compensate for downstate.

    It was even more apparent with Zerg v Zerg battles because it did showcase which Commanders or guilds did better or worse with and without the rally bot effects.

    Yep, full zerk all week on my Beserker. Couple invulns help a ton with survival. Easy kills during no downstate week, and really not even about skill. Our guild had a couple of Scrapper/Beserker nights for the lols. Bursty builds rule anyway; especially without downstate.

  • iKeostuKen.2738iKeostuKen.2738 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    Half the time the game feels liek it has no downstate from how bursty a lot of classes already are. Just leave the downstate alone.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    NO

    And another pro-ganking idea is defeated - if you hate the result, you hate democracy!

    Necro. Never knowingly blasting combo fields since 2012.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I can see both sides of the coin. I'd be okay with, like, 3 seconds -- but on the whole unless you hit like a wet noodle in anything more than a 1v1 you should be able to match or even out-cleave someone being revived by one person. If you're going for the stomp you know you gotta get in there quick.

    I think ongoing diminishing returns on multiple sources of reviving and downstate healing (transfusion, MI. pet res etc.) so players have a chance to stomp a player being revived my multiple others could be an option. It would help promote ganking in outnumbered scenarios, which I'm totally okay with. Those thieves and rangers should be feared. I wouldn't know the first thing about balancing such a mechanic though.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • Mokk.2397Mokk.2397 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    Just get rid of rally in WvW . Simple

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭

    Sb, rev and thief rejoice

  • Timelord.8190Timelord.8190 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019

    Just remove the downed state already. It mainly serves the bigger and better servers. They can power ress with their blob while having enough people for the offense. Every advantage in the game will be more used by the strongest server than the weaker servers.

    Far Shiverpeaks
    My YT- channel: Toxilo

  • wanya.1697wanya.1697 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019
    NO

    sorry but its already annoying enough to get the you cant rez dead while in combat message all the time
    dont need another useless message popup while trying to rez someone

  • SoV.5139SoV.5139 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2019
    NO

    The people who complain about higher numbers having an advantage because downed players can be raised are playing the mode wrong. They want to make it easier for PVP builds to pick off group support builds running back to their zerg, and munchkin-spam-while-invuln builds to grief groups of players by sending some back to spawn. What you guys SHOULD BE advocating for is a smaller version of WvW - 30v30v30 per map, or something like that.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Rally is the issue too, not only ressing.

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • spectrito.8513spectrito.8513 Member ✭✭✭
    Consierable idea

    @SoV.5139 said:
    The people who complain about higher numbers having an advantage because downed players can be raised are playing the mode wrong. They want to make it easier for PVP builds to pick off group support builds running back to their zerg, and munchkin-spam-while-invuln builds to grief groups of players by sending some back to spawn. What you guys SHOULD BE advocating for is a smaller version of WvW - 30v30v30 per map, or something like that.

    How dare they play a PvP mode with PvP builds, ban them all Anet !!!!!1!1!1

  • SoV.5139SoV.5139 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:
    The people who complain about higher numbers having an advantage because downed players can be raised are playing the mode wrong. They want to make it easier for PVP builds to pick off group support builds running back to their zerg, and munchkin-spam-while-invuln builds to grief groups of players by sending some back to spawn. What you guys SHOULD BE advocating for is a smaller version of WvW - 30v30v30 per map, or something like that.

    How dare they play a PvP mode with PvP builds, ban them all Anet !!!!!1!1!1

    Naaa just play PvP if they want 1v1s with character death as the penalty for loss. Instead they are trying to take the "strength in numbers" advantage away from folks who play WvW for specifically that reason.

    If you dont like the fact that football isnt basketball, why are you on the football field? Go to the basketball court.

  • spectrito.8513spectrito.8513 Member ✭✭✭
    Consierable idea

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:
    The people who complain about higher numbers having an advantage because downed players can be raised are playing the mode wrong. They want to make it easier for PVP builds to pick off group support builds running back to their zerg, and munchkin-spam-while-invuln builds to grief groups of players by sending some back to spawn. What you guys SHOULD BE advocating for is a smaller version of WvW - 30v30v30 per map, or something like that.

    How dare they play a PvP mode with PvP builds, ban them all Anet !!!!!1!1!1

    Naaa just play PvP if they want 1v1s with character death as the penalty for loss. Instead they are trying to take the "strength in numbers" advantage away from folks who play WvW for specifically that reason.

    If you dont like the fact that football isnt basketball, why are you on the football field? Go to the basketball court.

    I think you just aswered yourself.
    Why are you complaining about people PvPing in a PvP build in a PvP mode ?

  • SoV.5139SoV.5139 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2019
    NO

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:
    The people who complain about higher numbers having an advantage because downed players can be raised are playing the mode wrong. They want to make it easier for PVP builds to pick off group support builds running back to their zerg, and munchkin-spam-while-invuln builds to grief groups of players by sending some back to spawn. What you guys SHOULD BE advocating for is a smaller version of WvW - 30v30v30 per map, or something like that.

    How dare they play a PvP mode with PvP builds, ban them all Anet !!!!!1!1!1

    Naaa just play PvP if they want 1v1s with character death as the penalty for loss. Instead they are trying to take the "strength in numbers" advantage away from folks who play WvW for specifically that reason.

    If you dont like the fact that football isnt basketball, why are you on the football field? Go to the basketball court.

    I think you just aswered yourself.
    Why are you complaining about people PvPing in a PvP build in a PvP mode ?

    Im not. The people complaining they cant stomp 1v1 downs in WvW because of too many raisers, need to go to PvP. Instead, they come to the forums to lobby for changes to a different mode to be more like the mode they want, when the mode they want already exists.

    They are on the football field complaining football is not like basketball. Theres a basketball court in the same park the football field is in.

    Dont want to be zerg trained while stomping a 1v1 downed? If you play the 80vs80vs80 mode, youre gonna have a bad time. Play the 5vs5 mode instead.

  • spectrito.8513spectrito.8513 Member ✭✭✭
    Consierable idea

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:
    The people who complain about higher numbers having an advantage because downed players can be raised are playing the mode wrong. They want to make it easier for PVP builds to pick off group support builds running back to their zerg, and munchkin-spam-while-invuln builds to grief groups of players by sending some back to spawn. What you guys SHOULD BE advocating for is a smaller version of WvW - 30v30v30 per map, or something like that.

    How dare they play a PvP mode with PvP builds, ban them all Anet !!!!!1!1!1

    Naaa just play PvP if they want 1v1s with character death as the penalty for loss. Instead they are trying to take the "strength in numbers" advantage away from folks who play WvW for specifically that reason.

    If you dont like the fact that football isnt basketball, why are you on the football field? Go to the basketball court.

    I think you just aswered yourself.
    Why are you complaining about people PvPing in a PvP build in a PvP mode ?

    Im not. The people complaining they cant stomp 1v1 downs in WvW because of too many raisers, need to go to PvP. Instead, they come to the forums to lobby for changes to a different mode to be more like the mode they want, when the mode they want already exists.

    They are on the football field complaining football is not like basketball. Theres a basketball court in the same park the football field is in.

    Dont want to be zerg trained while stomping a 1v1 downed? If you play the 80vs80vs80 mode, youre gonna have a bad time. Play the 5vs5 mode instead.

    You know that sPvP is about afking in a circle with limited gear, you can only play with one friend and have a 5 min queue ?

    It isnt only about picking off a support on a 1v1, it also comes down to zerg vs zerg where the larger zerg on top of having more damage, health and healing also have more people to ress downed players.
    It makes skill and coordination less relevant.
    It punishes good players and rewards bad ones and this is just bad design.
    Downed state have no downsides, you just need to press f and with enough people its nearly instant.
    It needs a nerf, either by limiting how many players can ress a downed or decrease the ressing health rate, its just too forgiving as it is.

  • SoV.5139SoV.5139 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:
    The people who complain about higher numbers having an advantage because downed players can be raised are playing the mode wrong. They want to make it easier for PVP builds to pick off group support builds running back to their zerg, and munchkin-spam-while-invuln builds to grief groups of players by sending some back to spawn. What you guys SHOULD BE advocating for is a smaller version of WvW - 30v30v30 per map, or something like that.

    How dare they play a PvP mode with PvP builds, ban them all Anet !!!!!1!1!1

    Naaa just play PvP if they want 1v1s with character death as the penalty for loss. Instead they are trying to take the "strength in numbers" advantage away from folks who play WvW for specifically that reason.

    If you dont like the fact that football isnt basketball, why are you on the football field? Go to the basketball court.

    I think you just aswered yourself.
    Why are you complaining about people PvPing in a PvP build in a PvP mode ?

    Im not. The people complaining they cant stomp 1v1 downs in WvW because of too many raisers, need to go to PvP. Instead, they come to the forums to lobby for changes to a different mode to be more like the mode they want, when the mode they want already exists.

    They are on the football field complaining football is not like basketball. Theres a basketball court in the same park the football field is in.

    Dont want to be zerg trained while stomping a 1v1 downed? If you play the 80vs80vs80 mode, youre gonna have a bad time. Play the 5vs5 mode instead.

    You know that sPvP is about afking in a circle with limited gear, you can only play with one friend and have a 5 min queue ?

    It isnt only about picking off a support on a 1v1, it also comes down to zerg vs zerg where the larger zerg on top of having more damage, health and healing also have more people to ress downed players.
    It makes skill and coordination less relevant.
    It punishes good players and rewards bad ones and this is just bad design.
    Downed state have no downsides, you just need to press f and with enough people its nearly instant.
    It needs a nerf, either by limiting how many players can ress a downed or decrease the ressing health rate, its just too forgiving as it is.

    The claim of "punishes good players and rewards bad ones" is a false dichotomy, and an over generalization. The reality is playing the mode correctly doesnt make someone a bad player. Playing the mode incorrectly doesnt make someone a good player.

    Of course you made the claim of "punishes good players and rewards bad ones" right after attempting to deny that people make roaming builds specifically to catch and kill group support builds and group specialist builds heading back to their zerg. If they are such good players, why do they need to sandbag? Why not play PvP instead, where everyone else builds for PvP?

    And they already do limit how many people can raise a downed.
    As a player you can "nerf" the increase in health rate using poison.
    The things you ask for, already exist.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:
    The people who complain about higher numbers having an advantage because downed players can be raised are playing the mode wrong. They want to make it easier for PVP builds to pick off group support builds running back to their zerg, and munchkin-spam-while-invuln builds to grief groups of players by sending some back to spawn. What you guys SHOULD BE advocating for is a smaller version of WvW - 30v30v30 per map, or something like that.

    How dare they play a PvP mode with PvP builds, ban them all Anet !!!!!1!1!1

    Naaa just play PvP if they want 1v1s with character death as the penalty for loss. Instead they are trying to take the "strength in numbers" advantage away from folks who play WvW for specifically that reason.

    If you dont like the fact that football isnt basketball, why are you on the football field? Go to the basketball court.

    I think you just aswered yourself.
    Why are you complaining about people PvPing in a PvP build in a PvP mode ?

    Im not. The people complaining they cant stomp 1v1 downs in WvW because of too many raisers, need to go to PvP. Instead, they come to the forums to lobby for changes to a different mode to be more like the mode they want, when the mode they want already exists.

    They are on the football field complaining football is not like basketball. Theres a basketball court in the same park the football field is in.

    Dont want to be zerg trained while stomping a 1v1 downed? If you play the 80vs80vs80 mode, youre gonna have a bad time. Play the 5vs5 mode instead.

    You know that sPvP is about afking in a circle with limited gear, you can only play with one friend and have a 5 min queue ?

    It isnt only about picking off a support on a 1v1, it also comes down to zerg vs zerg where the larger zerg on top of having more damage, health and healing also have more people to ress downed players.
    It makes skill and coordination less relevant.
    It punishes good players and rewards bad ones and this is just bad design.
    Downed state have no downsides, you just need to press f and with enough people its nearly instant.
    It needs a nerf, either by limiting how many players can ress a downed or decrease the ressing health rate, its just too forgiving as it is.

    The claim of "punishes good players and rewards bad ones" is a false dichotomy, and an over generalization. The reality is playing the mode correctly doesnt make someone a bad player. Playing the mode incorrectly doesnt make someone a good player.

    Of course you made the claim of "punishes good players and rewards bad ones" right after attempting to deny that people make roaming builds specifically to catch and kill group support builds and group specialist builds heading back to their zerg. If they are such good players, why do they need to sandbag? Why not play PvP instead, where everyone else builds for PvP?

    And they already do limit how many people can raise a downed.
    As a player you can "nerf" the increase in health rate using poison.
    The things you ask for, already exist.

    Not every class has access to poison at all times & it doesn't even matter when people ress rush.

    Smugly chuckling forever.
    My sentence doesn't make sense? Well, I probably forgot to write half of it before posting.

  • SoV.5139SoV.5139 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:
    The people who complain about higher numbers having an advantage because downed players can be raised are playing the mode wrong. They want to make it easier for PVP builds to pick off group support builds running back to their zerg, and munchkin-spam-while-invuln builds to grief groups of players by sending some back to spawn. What you guys SHOULD BE advocating for is a smaller version of WvW - 30v30v30 per map, or something like that.

    How dare they play a PvP mode with PvP builds, ban them all Anet !!!!!1!1!1

    Naaa just play PvP if they want 1v1s with character death as the penalty for loss. Instead they are trying to take the "strength in numbers" advantage away from folks who play WvW for specifically that reason.

    If you dont like the fact that football isnt basketball, why are you on the football field? Go to the basketball court.

    I think you just aswered yourself.
    Why are you complaining about people PvPing in a PvP build in a PvP mode ?

    Im not. The people complaining they cant stomp 1v1 downs in WvW because of too many raisers, need to go to PvP. Instead, they come to the forums to lobby for changes to a different mode to be more like the mode they want, when the mode they want already exists.

    They are on the football field complaining football is not like basketball. Theres a basketball court in the same park the football field is in.

    Dont want to be zerg trained while stomping a 1v1 downed? If you play the 80vs80vs80 mode, youre gonna have a bad time. Play the 5vs5 mode instead.

    You know that sPvP is about afking in a circle with limited gear, you can only play with one friend and have a 5 min queue ?

    It isnt only about picking off a support on a 1v1, it also comes down to zerg vs zerg where the larger zerg on top of having more damage, health and healing also have more people to ress downed players.
    It makes skill and coordination less relevant.
    It punishes good players and rewards bad ones and this is just bad design.
    Downed state have no downsides, you just need to press f and with enough people its nearly instant.
    It needs a nerf, either by limiting how many players can ress a downed or decrease the ressing health rate, its just too forgiving as it is.

    The claim of "punishes good players and rewards bad ones" is a false dichotomy, and an over generalization. The reality is playing the mode correctly doesnt make someone a bad player. Playing the mode incorrectly doesnt make someone a good player.

    Of course you made the claim of "punishes good players and rewards bad ones" right after attempting to deny that people make roaming builds specifically to catch and kill group support builds and group specialist builds heading back to their zerg. If they are such good players, why do they need to sandbag? Why not play PvP instead, where everyone else builds for PvP?

    And they already do limit how many people can raise a downed.
    As a player you can "nerf" the increase in health rate using poison.
    The things you ask for, already exist.

    Not every class has access to poison at all times & it doesn't even matter when people ress rush.

    The devs/balance team etc... should not cater to people who refuse to use the tools already available which gives them what they are asking for.

    When I:
    Play the mode with 5 opponents maximum
    and
    Have one poison ability on my CD bar
    I have no problem with people being raised super fast negating my "superior skill" (more like I got the drop) in having downed them.

    On the converse, when I:
    Play the mode where there are two other teams of 80 players per map:
    and
    Refuse to have poison on my hotbar
    People who I downed get raised pretty quickly.

    What should I do? I should play the correct mode which gives me what I want? Naaa Id rather come to the forums and demand the mode which does not play the way I want it be turned into the mode that plays by my rules, despite the fact that the game has a mode and game mechanics which allow me to play how I want.

  • Dediggefedde.4961Dediggefedde.4961 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    In zerg fights, in my opinion, 2 s is the maximum that makes sense.
    Some guilds can actually rez their players in a zerg fight without losing double the amount. But 3s of sustain is highly improbable.
    But in most cases (against competent enemies) a bomb will land in opposing downs when the zerg tries to rezz. In my opinion, this is punishing enough in zergplay.

    For roaming/smallscale there is little sense for that.
    There are skills you can take especially for safestomping (stealth, invuln, ports, pulsing blinds, thief-elite, function-gyro) and making rezzing more difficult (CC, AoE-Dmg, poison).
    If you don't take any skill like that, then you allow other enemies to revive the enemy. In my opinion that's a fair counterplay to a weakness in your build.

  • spectrito.8513spectrito.8513 Member ✭✭✭
    Consierable idea

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:
    The people who complain about higher numbers having an advantage because downed players can be raised are playing the mode wrong. They want to make it easier for PVP builds to pick off group support builds running back to their zerg, and munchkin-spam-while-invuln builds to grief groups of players by sending some back to spawn. What you guys SHOULD BE advocating for is a smaller version of WvW - 30v30v30 per map, or something like that.

    How dare they play a PvP mode with PvP builds, ban them all Anet !!!!!1!1!1

    Naaa just play PvP if they want 1v1s with character death as the penalty for loss. Instead they are trying to take the "strength in numbers" advantage away from folks who play WvW for specifically that reason.

    If you dont like the fact that football isnt basketball, why are you on the football field? Go to the basketball court.

    I think you just aswered yourself.
    Why are you complaining about people PvPing in a PvP build in a PvP mode ?

    Im not. The people complaining they cant stomp 1v1 downs in WvW because of too many raisers, need to go to PvP. Instead, they come to the forums to lobby for changes to a different mode to be more like the mode they want, when the mode they want already exists.

    They are on the football field complaining football is not like basketball. Theres a basketball court in the same park the football field is in.

    Dont want to be zerg trained while stomping a 1v1 downed? If you play the 80vs80vs80 mode, youre gonna have a bad time. Play the 5vs5 mode instead.

    You know that sPvP is about afking in a circle with limited gear, you can only play with one friend and have a 5 min queue ?

    It isnt only about picking off a support on a 1v1, it also comes down to zerg vs zerg where the larger zerg on top of having more damage, health and healing also have more people to ress downed players.
    It makes skill and coordination less relevant.
    It punishes good players and rewards bad ones and this is just bad design.
    Downed state have no downsides, you just need to press f and with enough people its nearly instant.
    It needs a nerf, either by limiting how many players can ress a downed or decrease the ressing health rate, its just too forgiving as it is.

    The claim of "punishes good players and rewards bad ones" is a false dichotomy, and an over generalization. The reality is playing the mode correctly doesnt make someone a bad player. Playing the mode incorrectly doesnt make someone a good player.

    Of course you made the claim of "punishes good players and rewards bad ones" right after attempting to deny that people make roaming builds specifically to catch and kill group support builds and group specialist builds heading back to their zerg. If they are such good players, why do they need to sandbag? Why not play PvP instead, where everyone else builds for PvP?

    And they already do limit how many people can raise a downed.
    As a player you can "nerf" the increase in health rate using poison.
    The things you ask for, already exist.

    I already said it before but just to make sure you understand the difference between sPvP and WvW
    People prefer WvW over Spvp because Spvp has :

    • Gear restrictons
    • Queues
    • You can only join with ONE friend
    • Restrict builds (if you care to win)
    • You have to afk in a circle
      Among many other things

      I'm not talking about a roamer vs zerger
      Downed state affects in roamer vs roamer and zerg vs zerg scenarios
      It will ALWAYS benefits the group with more numbers which is enough due to how stupidly easy this game is now
      For example in a 3v1, the sole player manages to down a player, no matter what he does, if the other 2 simply press F, he will not be able to stomp the downed.
      It works the in a similar way in a 30v10 scenario, it benefits larger groups way too much on top of their numbers advantage and forgives people who played badly and died.
      It has nothing to do with a roamer ganking a zergling, if the zergling died in a gank downed state wont save him from dying.

    In Wvw you can play whatever you want because win is MEANINGLESS

    Also there's no such thing as "pvp build" everyone in WvW builds for PvP

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    NO

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:
    The people who complain about higher numbers having an advantage because downed players can be raised are playing the mode wrong. They want to make it easier for PVP builds to pick off group support builds running back to their zerg, and munchkin-spam-while-invuln builds to grief groups of players by sending some back to spawn. What you guys SHOULD BE advocating for is a smaller version of WvW - 30v30v30 per map, or something like that.

    How dare they play a PvP mode with PvP builds, ban them all Anet !!!!!1!1!1

    Naaa just play PvP if they want 1v1s with character death as the penalty for loss. Instead they are trying to take the "strength in numbers" advantage away from folks who play WvW for specifically that reason.

    If you dont like the fact that football isnt basketball, why are you on the football field? Go to the basketball court.

    I think you just aswered yourself.
    Why are you complaining about people PvPing in a PvP build in a PvP mode ?

    Im not. The people complaining they cant stomp 1v1 downs in WvW because of too many raisers, need to go to PvP. Instead, they come to the forums to lobby for changes to a different mode to be more like the mode they want, when the mode they want already exists.

    They are on the football field complaining football is not like basketball. Theres a basketball court in the same park the football field is in.

    Dont want to be zerg trained while stomping a 1v1 downed? If you play the 80vs80vs80 mode, youre gonna have a bad time. Play the 5vs5 mode instead.

    You know that sPvP is about afking in a circle with limited gear, you can only play with one friend and have a 5 min queue ?

    It isnt only about picking off a support on a 1v1, it also comes down to zerg vs zerg where the larger zerg on top of having more damage, health and healing also have more people to ress downed players.
    It makes skill and coordination less relevant.
    It punishes good players and rewards bad ones and this is just bad design.
    Downed state have no downsides, you just need to press f and with enough people its nearly instant.
    It needs a nerf, either by limiting how many players can ress a downed or decrease the ressing health rate, its just too forgiving as it is.

    The claim of "punishes good players and rewards bad ones" is a false dichotomy, and an over generalization. The reality is playing the mode correctly doesnt make someone a bad player. Playing the mode incorrectly doesnt make someone a good player.

    Of course you made the claim of "punishes good players and rewards bad ones" right after attempting to deny that people make roaming builds specifically to catch and kill group support builds and group specialist builds heading back to their zerg. If they are such good players, why do they need to sandbag? Why not play PvP instead, where everyone else builds for PvP?

    And they already do limit how many people can raise a downed.
    As a player you can "nerf" the increase in health rate using poison.
    The things you ask for, already exist.

    I already said it before but just to make sure you understand the difference between sPvP and WvW
    People prefer WvW over Spvp because Spvp has :

    • Gear restrictons
    • Queues
    • You can only join with ONE friend
    • Restrict builds (if you care to win)
    • You have to afk in a circle
      Among many other things

      I'm not talking about a roamer vs zerger
      Downed state affects in roamer vs roamer and zerg vs zerg scenarios
      It will ALWAYS benefits the group with more numbers which is enough due to how stupidly easy this game is now
      For example in a 3v1, the sole player manages to down a player, no matter what he does, if the other 2 simply press F, he will not be able to stomp the downed.
      It works the in a similar way in a 30v10 scenario, it benefits larger groups way too much on top of their numbers advantage and forgives people who played badly and died.
      It has nothing to do with a roamer ganking a zergling, if the zergling died in a gank downed state wont save him from dying.

    In Wvw you can play whatever you want because win is MEANINGLESS

    Also there's no such thing as "pvp build" everyone in WvW builds for PvP

    Plot twist : you don't always die because you're bad, but because enemy knows how to cast 3 skills in a quick succession.

    If you don't have enough people to fight larger group then get more people from team/guild chat/discord, simple as that.

    If enemy can get people so can you.

  • spectrito.8513spectrito.8513 Member ✭✭✭
    Consierable idea

    @steki.1478 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:
    The people who complain about higher numbers having an advantage because downed players can be raised are playing the mode wrong. They want to make it easier for PVP builds to pick off group support builds running back to their zerg, and munchkin-spam-while-invuln builds to grief groups of players by sending some back to spawn. What you guys SHOULD BE advocating for is a smaller version of WvW - 30v30v30 per map, or something like that.

    How dare they play a PvP mode with PvP builds, ban them all Anet !!!!!1!1!1

    Naaa just play PvP if they want 1v1s with character death as the penalty for loss. Instead they are trying to take the "strength in numbers" advantage away from folks who play WvW for specifically that reason.

    If you dont like the fact that football isnt basketball, why are you on the football field? Go to the basketball court.

    I think you just aswered yourself.
    Why are you complaining about people PvPing in a PvP build in a PvP mode ?

    Im not. The people complaining they cant stomp 1v1 downs in WvW because of too many raisers, need to go to PvP. Instead, they come to the forums to lobby for changes to a different mode to be more like the mode they want, when the mode they want already exists.

    They are on the football field complaining football is not like basketball. Theres a basketball court in the same park the football field is in.

    Dont want to be zerg trained while stomping a 1v1 downed? If you play the 80vs80vs80 mode, youre gonna have a bad time. Play the 5vs5 mode instead.

    You know that sPvP is about afking in a circle with limited gear, you can only play with one friend and have a 5 min queue ?

    It isnt only about picking off a support on a 1v1, it also comes down to zerg vs zerg where the larger zerg on top of having more damage, health and healing also have more people to ress downed players.
    It makes skill and coordination less relevant.
    It punishes good players and rewards bad ones and this is just bad design.
    Downed state have no downsides, you just need to press f and with enough people its nearly instant.
    It needs a nerf, either by limiting how many players can ress a downed or decrease the ressing health rate, its just too forgiving as it is.

    The claim of "punishes good players and rewards bad ones" is a false dichotomy, and an over generalization. The reality is playing the mode correctly doesnt make someone a bad player. Playing the mode incorrectly doesnt make someone a good player.

    Of course you made the claim of "punishes good players and rewards bad ones" right after attempting to deny that people make roaming builds specifically to catch and kill group support builds and group specialist builds heading back to their zerg. If they are such good players, why do they need to sandbag? Why not play PvP instead, where everyone else builds for PvP?

    And they already do limit how many people can raise a downed.
    As a player you can "nerf" the increase in health rate using poison.
    The things you ask for, already exist.

    I already said it before but just to make sure you understand the difference between sPvP and WvW
    People prefer WvW over Spvp because Spvp has :

    • Gear restrictons
    • Queues
    • You can only join with ONE friend
    • Restrict builds (if you care to win)
    • You have to afk in a circle
      Among many other things

      I'm not talking about a roamer vs zerger
      Downed state affects in roamer vs roamer and zerg vs zerg scenarios
      It will ALWAYS benefits the group with more numbers which is enough due to how stupidly easy this game is now
      For example in a 3v1, the sole player manages to down a player, no matter what he does, if the other 2 simply press F, he will not be able to stomp the downed.
      It works the in a similar way in a 30v10 scenario, it benefits larger groups way too much on top of their numbers advantage and forgives people who played badly and died.
      It has nothing to do with a roamer ganking a zergling, if the zergling died in a gank downed state wont save him from dying.

    In Wvw you can play whatever you want because win is MEANINGLESS

    Also there's no such thing as "pvp build" everyone in WvW builds for PvP

    Plot twist : you don't always die because you're bad, but because enemy knows how to cast 3 skills in a quick succession.

    I never said you always die because you're bad
    But if you're within range of the enemy skills and you die, yes you died because bad positioning.

    If you don't have enough people to fight larger group then get more people from team/guild chat/discord, simple as that.

    If enemy can get people so can you.

    Assuming servers have the same population i agree with you

  • SlateSloan.3654SlateSloan.3654 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2019

    in gw1 there was no downstate , you could ress only if you had one of the ress skills with you and there where alot different ways how to ress someone.

    signets who could be used only once, monk had skills like ress on distance and revive the person at your location, another skill was like fast ress skill but needed to touch the corpse, ress person with full health but lose health yourself, and so on and so on.

    i vote for no downstate at all , no general ress ability. but need ress as skill with you so number of ress or persons who are able to ress are limited.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    NO

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @spectrito.8513 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:
    The people who complain about higher numbers having an advantage because downed players can be raised are playing the mode wrong. They want to make it easier for PVP builds to pick off group support builds running back to their zerg, and munchkin-spam-while-invuln builds to grief groups of players by sending some back to spawn. What you guys SHOULD BE advocating for is a smaller version of WvW - 30v30v30 per map, or something like that.

    How dare they play a PvP mode with PvP builds, ban them all Anet !!!!!1!1!1

    Naaa just play PvP if they want 1v1s with character death as the penalty for loss. Instead they are trying to take the "strength in numbers" advantage away from folks who play WvW for specifically that reason.

    If you dont like the fact that football isnt basketball, why are you on the football field? Go to the basketball court.

    I think you just aswered yourself.
    Why are you complaining about people PvPing in a PvP build in a PvP mode ?

    Im not. The people complaining they cant stomp 1v1 downs in WvW because of too many raisers, need to go to PvP. Instead, they come to the forums to lobby for changes to a different mode to be more like the mode they want, when the mode they want already exists.

    They are on the football field complaining football is not like basketball. Theres a basketball court in the same park the football field is in.

    Dont want to be zerg trained while stomping a 1v1 downed? If you play the 80vs80vs80 mode, youre gonna have a bad time. Play the 5vs5 mode instead.

    You know that sPvP is about afking in a circle with limited gear, you can only play with one friend and have a 5 min queue ?

    It isnt only about picking off a support on a 1v1, it also comes down to zerg vs zerg where the larger zerg on top of having more damage, health and healing also have more people to ress downed players.
    It makes skill and coordination less relevant.
    It punishes good players and rewards bad ones and this is just bad design.
    Downed state have no downsides, you just need to press f and with enough people its nearly instant.
    It needs a nerf, either by limiting how many players can ress a downed or decrease the ressing health rate, its just too forgiving as it is.

    The claim of "punishes good players and rewards bad ones" is a false dichotomy, and an over generalization. The reality is playing the mode correctly doesnt make someone a bad player. Playing the mode incorrectly doesnt make someone a good player.

    Of course you made the claim of "punishes good players and rewards bad ones" right after attempting to deny that people make roaming builds specifically to catch and kill group support builds and group specialist builds heading back to their zerg. If they are such good players, why do they need to sandbag? Why not play PvP instead, where everyone else builds for PvP?

    And they already do limit how many people can raise a downed.
    As a player you can "nerf" the increase in health rate using poison.
    The things you ask for, already exist.

    I already said it before but just to make sure you understand the difference between sPvP and WvW
    People prefer WvW over Spvp because Spvp has :

    • Gear restrictons
    • Queues
    • You can only join with ONE friend
    • Restrict builds (if you care to win)
    • You have to afk in a circle
      Among many other things

      I'm not talking about a roamer vs zerger
      Downed state affects in roamer vs roamer and zerg vs zerg scenarios
      It will ALWAYS benefits the group with more numbers which is enough due to how stupidly easy this game is now
      For example in a 3v1, the sole player manages to down a player, no matter what he does, if the other 2 simply press F, he will not be able to stomp the downed.
      It works the in a similar way in a 30v10 scenario, it benefits larger groups way too much on top of their numbers advantage and forgives people who played badly and died.
      It has nothing to do with a roamer ganking a zergling, if the zergling died in a gank downed state wont save him from dying.

    In Wvw you can play whatever you want because win is MEANINGLESS

    Also there's no such thing as "pvp build" everyone in WvW builds for PvP

    Plot twist : you don't always die because you're bad, but because enemy knows how to cast 3 skills in a quick succession.

    I never said you always die because you're bad
    But if you're within range of the enemy skills and you die, yes you died because bad positioning.

    Both sides can use terrain to their own advantage, both teams can use builds that have good control over allied/enemy downs as well.

    If you don't have enough people to fight larger group then get more people from team/guild chat/discord, simple as that.

    If enemy can get people so can you.

    Assuming servers have the same population i agree with you

    Tiers exist for a reason. Idk what's situation in NA, but on EU you can only see t5 having problems with outnumbered fights. Everywhere else it's either balanced during prime time or balanced in sense that one side has a lot of people in the morning while other has during the night or similar (but overall it's whatever for the 3rd side).

    Servers don't need to have same population in order to have balanced fights. Besides, you can always switch maps and I doubt that every map is outnumbered 24/7 on every tier.

  • archmagus.7249archmagus.7249 Member ✭✭✭
    NO

    Thanks for adding a 10s cooldown to my elite spec mechanic.

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A better alternative would be to have no downstate. But here in the forums we have jackanape players that constancy die and that is the main reason they want their down state. Down state carries them over and gives them a second life, a third life, a fourth life, and so on. I have down players 3 times in a row, just to have their friends resurrect them again and again and again.

    They feel entitled to have extra lives. They have no shame and they feel that WvW is a just another PvE map, when in fact WvW is a competitive game mode and down state handicapping BS should not even exist in WvW.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭
    edited May 31, 2019
    Consierable idea

    10 seconds may be a tad extreme (although I won't deny if I had my way there would never be any downstate)

    Seems the general consensus with most WvW players is that downstate always benefits the players with the numbers. Something needs to be done. Perhaps 10 seconds is too extreme but surely people don't actually believe that downstate as it exists now is a fair and competitive addition to WvW. It clearly gives an extreme advantage to the group with numbers on their side. I don't care if you disable rez for 1 second or 10. Perhaps have enemies that are downed start downstate with less health? But something needs to change.

    The fact that 1 player rezzing a downed player is faster than the stomp animation is an extremely flawed concept.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.