So about the trade off patch — Guild Wars 2 Forums

So about the trade off patch

HawkXtream.1538HawkXtream.1538 Member ✭✭
edited May 21, 2019 in Guardian

What is the advantages of playing core guardian than firebrand and dragonhunter.
Dragonhunter F1-F3 seems to do better than Core guardians. Will core guardian F1-F3 skills get rework in future patch?
Firebrand basically get whole sets of skills for F1-F3 lol

Update: after seeing so many comments now I know that the advantage of core guardian is the instance cast virtues. It is very useful for Renewed Focus because you still can cast all the virtues when you are using Renewed Focus. Same when you are stomping a player you can cast virtues of justice for blind (certain trait line) and virtues of courage for stability. These are not available for elites specialisation.

Comments

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    @HawkXtream.1538 said:
    What is the advantages of playing core guardian than firebrand and dragonhunter.
    Dragonhunter F1-F3 seems to do better than Core guardians. Will core guardian F1-F3 skills get rework in future patch?
    Firebrand basically get whole sets of skills for F1-F3 lol

    I’m not sure DH F skills are better than core ....

    Core has range while DH are very short ranged as well have a big tell and F2 is sometimes a suicide

  • @Balsa.3951 said:

    @HawkXtream.1538 said:
    What is the advantages of playing core guardian than firebrand and dragonhunter.
    Dragonhunter F1-F3 seems to do better than Core guardians. Will core guardian F1-F3 skills get rework in future patch?
    Firebrand basically get whole sets of skills for F1-F3 lol

    I’m not sure DH F skills are better than core ....

    Core has range while DH are very short ranged as well have a big tell and F2 is sometimes a suicide

    I feel like they should make DH F2 at least an invade. Because a lot of time i was down during flying.

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭

    @HawkXtream.1538 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:

    @HawkXtream.1538 said:
    What is the advantages of playing core guardian than firebrand and dragonhunter.
    Dragonhunter F1-F3 seems to do better than Core guardians. Will core guardian F1-F3 skills get rework in future patch?
    Firebrand basically get whole sets of skills for F1-F3 lol

    I’m not sure DH F skills are better than core ....

    Core has range while DH are very short ranged as well have a big tell and F2 is sometimes a suicide

    I feel like they should make DH F2 at least an invade. Because a lot of time i was down during flying.

    That’s something ppl beg for since the start anet doesn’t want guard get disengagement abilities for some reason. DH the forgotten class which traps who doesn’t work on Dragons

  • crazyhusky.2985crazyhusky.2985 Member ✭✭✭

    @Balsa.3951 said:

    @HawkXtream.1538 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:

    @HawkXtream.1538 said:
    What is the advantages of playing core guardian than firebrand and dragonhunter.
    Dragonhunter F1-F3 seems to do better than Core guardians. Will core guardian F1-F3 skills get rework in future patch?
    Firebrand basically get whole sets of skills for F1-F3 lol

    I’m not sure DH F skills are better than core ....

    Core has range while DH are very short ranged as well have a big tell and F2 is sometimes a suicide

    I feel like they should make DH F2 at least an invade. Because a lot of time i was down during flying.

    That’s something ppl beg for since the start anet doesn’t want guard get disengagement abilities for some reason. DH the forgotten class which traps who doesn’t work on Dragons

    The traps don't work on half the things they're suppose to.

    Stationary bosses don't activate traps. And there is no way to make them activate.
    Prime example is Octovine the Auric basin meta boss... Traps won't activate on it. Until the last patch spirit weapons couldn't target it either meaning most build DH builds could not effectively damage it. You would think with a boss that was introduced in HoT along with the skills that introduced in HoT, you would be able to use said skills against said boss. The only way to use a trap on it is literally have to pull foes to traps or lure them over.
    There are other bosses too.

    Give DH a F4 that grants it barrier and retalition but also sets off any DH traps, this fix would problem somewhat.

    And yea F2 REALLY needs an evade, its one of the things should have been on DH from the start.
    But they commited to making guardian in general not have any evade on their skills.
    Part from guardian, necromancer is the only other class that doesn't have an evade on a skill.
    The other 7 classes have an evade on at aleast one weapon skill and one Utility skill. It does make it feel somewhat uneven not giving all classes access to at least 1 evade skill
    Just give Dragonghunter's f2 the evade.

  • Assic.2746Assic.2746 Member ✭✭✭
    1. Dragonhunter virtues have casting time, are no longer instant and can be interrupted.
    2. Virtue of Justice active effect is different. Your allies will no longer apply burning with their next attack. There is a tradeoff.
    3. Virtue of Resolve is different. You will only heal your allies inside small AoE radius. Wings of Resolve radius is 240 and Virtue of Resolve radius is 600. And this skill can also be interrupted and won't heal at all. So there is a tradeoff.
    4. Shield of Courage does indeed grant shield on top of aegis to allies but it has 33% longer cooldown and again the radius is smaller.

    DH virtues are not better. You get completly new active effect and not anything on top of the old ones. Have you even read the tooltips for DH virtues and compared to core virtues? DH is more skill/position based. You practically cannot fail with core virtues because of high their radius and instant activation.

    I don't see why core guardian should get new skills to tradeoff when there is no need for it. You don't get 3 more virtues as DH or FB. You get replacements.

  • Thank> @Assic.2746 said:

    1. Dragonhunter virtues have casting time, are no longer instant and can be interrupted.
    2. Virtue of Justice active effect is different. Your allies will no longer apply burning with their next attack. There is a tradeoff.
    3. Virtue of Resolve is different. You will only heal your allies inside small AoE radius. Wings of Resolve radius is 240 and Virtue of Resolve radius is 600. And this skill can also be interrupted and won't heal at all. So there is a tradeoff.
    4. Shield of Courage does indeed grant shield on top of aegis to allies but it has 33% longer cooldown and again the radius is smaller.

    DH virtues are not better. You get completly new active effect and not anything on top of the old ones. Have you even read the tooltips for DH virtues and compared to core virtues? DH is more skill/position based. You practically cannot fail with core virtues because of high their radius and instant activation.

    I don't see why core guardian should get new skills to tradeoff when there is no need for it. You don't get 3 more virtues as DH or FB. You get replacements.

    All good points. As an aside though, I would like to see a rework of core virtues only because they are so passive! DH and FB there is more reason to use them, but when I play core I kind of forget about them because their passive abilities do more for me in the long run. Any skill that is better if you don't use it is, in my opinion, a boring design.

  • TheBravery.9615TheBravery.9615 Member ✭✭✭

    Core guardian has no cast time on their virtues.

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  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mysticjedi.6053 said:
    [...]
    All good points. As an aside though, I would like to see a rework of core virtues only because they are so passive! DH and FB there is more reason to use them, but when I play core I kind of forget about them because their passive abilities do more for me in the long run. Any skill that is better if you don't use it is, in my opinion, a boring design.

    Maybe one or more of the traits that affect each virtue could make them ammo skills or even increase their ammo count when stacked, but only for core virtues.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2019

    I think the trade offs between DH and core justice and resolve are fair. Courage on the other hand... virtue of courage is a garbage skill. 45 sec for 1 aegis?! I do not think this skill was considered good even in 2012...

    On another note, the tomes are... a completely different class (wither you think it is good or bad). Comparison with core or DH is not valid at all.

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:
    I think the trade offs between DH and core justice and resolve are fair. Courage on the other hand... virtue of courage is a garbage skill. 45 sec for 1 aegis?! I do not think this skill was considered good even in 2012...

    On another note, the tomes are... a completely different class (wither you think it is good or bad). Comparison with core or DH is not valid at all.

    You are right. I think stunbreak & stability should be added to virtue of courage at least. Otherwise it is really underpowered compared to the new meta. But in reality, except for support firebrand (and maybe condi one, I do not know. I dislike FB) all guardian builds need a little update. Especially DH (I am biased about DH).

  • paShadoWn.5723paShadoWn.5723 Member ✭✭✭

    There is a trait to add stability to Virtue of Courage.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @paShadoWn.5723 said:
    There is a trait to add stability to Virtue of Courage.

    You know that works with all courage skills right? So if I compare VoC with Shield or tome that is a mote point. And you know that not all builds use virtue line. And most importantly VoC as a skill should be able to stand on its own. 45 secs for 1 aegis does not.

  • Alchimist.4738Alchimist.4738 Member ✭✭✭

    The trade off for Dragonhunter is the activation time on the virtues, compared to the instant cast of core, but in exchange you gain more dynamic active abilities, so for example you cannot use Resolve to panic heal, because you have an animation to go through with the Wings, but you can use the Wings to jump in/out of combat if must be.

    The trade off for Firebrand is the longer cooldown on the virtues, compared to the shorter ones of core, but in exchange you gain new weapon skills for a limited amount of uses.

  • Bawi.9541Bawi.9541 Member ✭✭

    IMO you're trading a good F2 on core for an excellent F1 on DH, so there's that. DH F2... I'm not convinced a 11k HP class should glide through the air for so long, without stability or evade, on a healing skill... F3 active is a joke on both.

    For Firebrand IMO the trade-off is that Core Guardian has so many good trait-lines and no filler trait-lines like some other classes, so losing any one is a trade-off in and of itself. Plus the massively increased cooldowns. Plus most meta (aka synergistic) builds can't really afford to take Renewed Focus to reset them, unlike Core Guardian.

    I think Guardian, especially Firebrand, is a class where the trade-off system already works. Another good example would be the concept of Weaver IMO. You're losing the quick switches for new powerful skills. (Not that the whole class doesn't have a bajillion problems, but I think the trade-off idea - if they wanna roll with that - works on weaver too.)

  • Update: after seeing so many comments now I know that the advantage of core guardian is the instance cast virtues. It is very useful for Renewed Focus because you still can cast all the virtues when you are using Renewed Focus. Same when you are stomping a player you can cast virtues of justice for blind (certain trait line) and virtues of courage for stability. These are not available for elites specialisation.

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