Jump to content
  • Sign Up

What are peoples thought on stealth?


zengara.8301

Recommended Posts

People talking about stealth stacking and permastealth being a problem and stuff... you have no idea.

For roaming, you can't be stealthed while using the warclaw so if anyone is running permastealth they're basically handicapping themselves out of the best mobility available in the game mode, and regarding the oneshots, well good luck landing one against a mounted player since you have to a) catch them and b) deal with a 11k hp buffer (the mount). I must say this is one of the only good things the warclaw has done for WvW lol.

Then you also have the sentries and towers applying "marked" that lasts for an eternity from kilometers away, making stealth stacking impossible in the first place and rendering some skills and playstyles useless near objectives (PU mesmer, stealth deadeye, mass invisibility and sneak gyro to name a few). IMO stealth haters should be happy with how the game mode is right now because as it is there is just too much hate for stealth-based playstyles to work.

On the other hand, classes and builds that use short (<3s) bursts of stealth are perfectly fine. That daredevil or mesmer that suddenly went invisible needs to do that to survive, and you can see the exact moment when they went invisible so you can prepare and adapt (people like to throw that word around a lot huh? lol) to it. They don't have the same defenses as your regular tanky bruiser so stop crying about it. Good luck facetanking a warrior's rampage as a thief without going invi or using daggerstorm for example lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 55
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Stealth is probably at it's lowest point (in WvW anyway) since the start of the game.

  • Every enemy sentry applies the marked debuff that lasts for ~20 or 30 seconds (can't remember exactly, but it's a long time) preventing stealth.
  • T3 towers have watchtower applying marked preventing stealth in huge sections of the map
  • Every ranger/soulbeast running around is packing Sic Em to reveal their target for a huge burst.
  • Every scrapper running around is packing Detection Pulse which reveals a pretty massive 1200 radius aoe around them.

^ because of these and other factors, most builds that abused stealth heavily have stopped doing that. There's too much chance you'll be fighting in a spot where you can't rely on it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually don't have a huge problem with stealth. It's stack-able duration's more so than anything. I enjoy the anticipation game that is played generally speaking.

My 100% absolute biggest problem... Is stealth + good (even decent) mobility. Basically two strong defensive (or offensive) mechanics working side by side (mobility especially in the right hands). It can be hard to kill what you can't see... Can be even harder to kill what you can't catch.

To me, if your playing a "sneaky" role even if just a moment of combat. You would naturally try to be careful and quiet.

IMO, I Honestly think stealth would be more balanced if it applied a debuff to movement speed while active. Doesn't have to be a lot (I don't think it should be a lot)... Just enough to help make a noticeable difference. So it's not more advantageous then it needs to be. (I'm guessing 10 - 25% movement speed reduction)

Edit -I just wanted to add what might be better is if you could not exceed base combat mobility while in stealth. So swiftness or super speed for example would not work. Though, if you got crippled or chilled... that would still work. Just a thought :+1:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stealth is a mechanic that really only belongs on the thief class. Rangers, Engis, Mesmers already have a ridiculous amount of survival baked into the their class. Access to stealth just makes killing already strong meta classes obnoxious. Warclaw effectively fixed the significant stealth issue with thieves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Straegen.2938 said:Stealth is a mechanic that really only belongs on the thief class. Rangers, Engis, Mesmers already have a ridiculous amount of survival baked into the their class. Access to stealth just makes killing already strong meta classes obnoxious. Warclaw effectively fixed the significant stealth issue with thieves.

I think it should be something unique only to thieves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Make aoe stealth (blasting smoke) stackable duration. Make other forms like leaping your own smoke a non stackable form of stealth. No leaping the same field multiple times. Remove marked stealth debuff from watchtowers and sentries. (Still apply the initial debuff when a tower/keep first flips so that you can find the one mesmer hiding. Some classes need stealth to be effective at all, but not a lot. Such as d/p thief. You need to dance in and out of stealth but not for long durations of time. They're currently useless anywhere marked exists and that is a problem. They shouldn't be useless. They just shouldn't be able to stealth for extended periods of times without the help of numerous allies blasting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Jayden Reese.9542 said:Garbage mechanic that turns bad players to good good to great and great to unstoppable. Typically the griefer types gravitate towards it in every game. Nothing as fun as fighting something you can't see or getting killed before you can react or esp in gw2 getting attacked surviving and he stealths resets 4 times to finally win or run wasting your time. Leads to more qq or rage quitting then any other mechanic. Just ruins some players experience while catering to the bads that need stealth as a crutch.

Actually the only people I see in this thread grieving are bads that don't play stealth and can't be bothered to learn how to play against it, those types that believe their overtunned builds are entitled to carry them even in unpredictable situations, the kind that stealth might be able to provide in the right hands.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If stealth were only available as an option to make outnumbered or severly unfair fights a bit more survivable for the individual stealther it would be one thing, instead, it's often used as a method to make most already pretty close to fair fights tip deviously in favor of the stealther and any adds he/she has waiting nearby.

I would classify anyone who deploys stealth in this matter (and that includes some of my characters) as opportunist gankers or overzealous roamers, but I would not classify these players as pvpers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont play stealth builds, and hate playing against them; i prefer to play dd duelist facing the enemy head on

my view is stealth stacking to stay perma stealth is ok to sneak behind enemy lineswhat i see the problem is the ability for them to constantly going in and out from stealth, there should be a 10-20 cd after leaving stealth, revealing stealth enemy will extend the cd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"crepuscular.9047" said:I dont play stealth builds, and hate playing against them; i prefer to play dd duelist facing the enemy head on

my view is stealth stacking to stay perma stealth is ok to sneak behind enemy lineswhat i see the problem is the ability for them to constantly going in and out from stealth, there should be a 10-20 cd after leaving stealth, revealing stealth enemy will extend the cd

If you'd have any other sort of active or passive defenses to keep you alive for that long that wouldn't be a problem, but you'll probably need to waste all dodges and every defensive ability you have only to keep alive against most match-ups using D/P or DE riffle. I guess it would be a valid point if you just wanted to kill those two weapon sets for good an only leave thief with no stealth option builds. I'm almost certain S/D would hurt enough too if they could use stealth from CnD only once 10-20 seconds. Not like they didn't take out most of thief's options out of the meta or decent choices anyways and not that thief isn't squishy enough as it is without using gimmick "perma" evade staff drd with acro or other sort of obnoxious evade heavy builds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Jayden Reese.9542 said:

@Jayden Reese.9542 said:Garbage mechanic that turns bad players to good good to great and great to unstoppable. Typically the griefer types gravitate towards it in every game. Nothing as fun as fighting something you can't see or getting killed before you can react or esp in gw2 getting attacked surviving and he stealths resets 4 times to finally win or run wasting your time. Leads to more qq or rage quitting then any other mechanic. Just ruins some players experience while catering to the bads that need stealth as a crutch.

Actually the only people I see in this thread grieving are bads that don't play stealth and can't be bothered to learn how to play against it, those types that believe their overtunned builds are entitled to carry them even in unpredictable situations, the kind that stealth might be able to provide in the right hands.

What? Not much counter in most games to invisible. Lots end up being stealth/stun locked dead. Sure gw2 i can squint my eyes looking for a couple tells for a couple abilities. But sure if you think i'm griefing or am bad cause of thinking stealth in games is garbage that's fine.

I'm only telling you what I see written here on this thread and it amounts only the same as the statements you made in your previous post.

I've made attempts more than once on the forums to make people understand that stealth is nothing close to that overpowered monster ability one cannot deal with, in fact due to the less target based nature of this game you have plenty of options to play against it and you can see in the high tear or meta of the game that there is no heavy stealth build there since people who just bothered a bit learning how to deal with stealth have no issues fighting against it. The game gives you enough options and ways to prevent stealth and stealth users to be effective. Since most of the people here are crying about it instead of being able to at least try thinking of what options there are to counter it, how other more skilled players go about facing it or at least appreciating a bit how stealth is implemented in gw2 (especially compared to other implementations in other games) I can only conclude what I've written above: they don't play it, can't be bothered to learn how to play against it and believe their overtunned builds are entitled to carry them.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/912138#Comment_912138 here's a list of things that might help any of the people who have difficulties in fighting against stealth. Again, I try stopping this trend of stealth accusations for people who only think stealth should be a copy from other games (WoW or other) and don't bother to understand that, with a bit of mentality change for when their expectations aren't met, a whole other horizon of possibilities might appear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stealth is one of the worst mechanics ever created for a game. It punishes the non-stealth player and robs him from a fluid game experience.Oh, he went stealth, now what? is he going to attack me or is he going to run away?Oh, look he attack me with a skill that has no tell and no there is way to know when he was going to attack me.Oh, look again stealth, and again, and again, and again...

Oh look he ran away, I should have better spent my time doing other things instead of engaging with this broken game mechanic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Hitman.5829" said:Stealth is one of the worst mechanics ever created for a game. It punishes the non-stealth player and robs him from a fluid game experience.Oh, he went stealth, now what? is he going to attack me or is he going to run away?Oh, look he attack me with a skill that has no tell and no there is way to know when he was going to attack me.Oh, look again stealth, and again, and again, and again...

Oh look he ran away, I should have better spent my time doing other things instead of engaging with this broken game mechanic.

I could say the same about invulns :^)

Oh he went invuln, now what? Is he going to attack me or is he going to run away? lolOh look, he attacked me with a skill that I couldn't interrupt because he is immune to all I do.Oh look, invuln again and again and again.

Oh look he ran away, blah blah blah.

Yet no one is complaining so hard about them compared to the stealth complaints.

Invulns completely block your interactions with the other player, while stealth on the other hand justs asks you to change your faceroll gameplan until stealth ends (3s or less). Believe it or not, there is counterplay to stealth: some classes can apply revealed, others can cleave/aoe around them, others can wait it out by blocking or using their own stealth, etc. Against invulns however the only thing you can do is wait it out, and if its an invuln that allows them to attack then well tough luck you have to wait it out in full defense mode.

And regarding running away, you don't need stealth to do that, just look at warrior spamming invulns while using their "charge" skills to run away lol. Or holos spamming holo leap, soulbeasts using the bird skills, etc. All while having at least 1 invuln available to escape.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Hitman.5829 said:Stealth is one of the worst mechanics ever created for a game. It punishes the non-stealth player and robs him from a fluid game experience.

dont agree my friend, stealth is a necessity, just the implementation of it in GW2 is terrible

What we need is WoW type of stealth implemented

  • Attacking will break stealth = Got
  • Taking damage will cancel stealth = Need
  • Cannot enter stealth while in combat = Need, but very unlikely, so place a cd after revealed to prevent constant quick re-stealth
  • Reveal stealth if too close = Not really needed, but should be possible since they already did it in LWS4E3: Long Live the Lich
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@crepuscular.9047 said:

@"Hitman.5829" said:Stealth is one of the worst mechanics ever created for a game. It punishes the non-stealth player and robs him from a fluid game experience.

dont agree my friend, stealth is a necessity, just the implementation of it in GW2 is terrible

What we need is WoW type of stealth implemented
  • Attacking will break stealth = Got
  • Taking damage will cancel stealth = Need
  • Cannot enter stealth while in combat = Need, but very unlikely, so place a cd after revealed to prevent constant quick re-stealth
  • Reveal stealth if too close = Not really needed, but should be possible since they already did it in LWS4E3: Long Live the Lich

That's a nice way of deleting stealth (and thief) from the game.

Unlike WoW, a lot of the skills in GW2 don't require a target to execute AND they cleave/aoe, so getting revealed when taking damage is a very bad idea. Stealth is also a valid defensive tool so blocking it from being used in combat would be a massive nerf to thief and other classes that use it. And btw a mechanic that prevents constant quick re-stealthing already exists and you even mention it in your post: revealed. Only deadeye can "cheat" this mechanic, but only for a limited amount of times.

I also would like you to think about the consequences of the changes you're suggesting if they get implemented. Suddenly stealth can't be used in combat or to escape, leaving you with using it to engage unnoticed as the only option. Oh gee I wonder what kind of builds like to show up out of nowhere, drop their burst and then gtfo to never be seen again? They must be real fun to fight against right?

Also last time I played WoW rogues had an entire talent tree focused on helping them with unstealthed combat, which doesn't exist here. You can call daredevil a "brawler" spec all you want but a daredevil is pretty much as squishy as a core thief so its useless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"sick of dying to 1 shots and bruiser sustain builds, well now you dont have to engage at all with our brand new WvW Mount!""sick of dying to stealth? We've introduced Marked and Watch Towers"

Anet are implementing things to help baddies and newer players hold their own against vet / skilled players, so in regards to stealth, I think its fine and only good for stomping newer players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Straegen.2938 said:Stealth is a mechanic that really only belongs on the thief class. Rangers, Engis, Mesmers already have a ridiculous amount of survival baked into the their class. Access to stealth just makes killing already strong meta classes obnoxious. Warclaw effectively fixed the significant stealth issue with thieves.

I remember back when Revenant first stole Mesmer's alacrity... Interesting times we live in these days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've mained thief the entire time I've played GW2 and I never liked it. I much prefer other game's iteration on stealth where it's a gap closer for melee and after you initiate you can't enter it again till combat breaks works better than shorter duration stealth that can be used constantly and in-combat.

Would trade what I have now for a 45s duration stealth like Warhammer online had in a heartbeat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Creaitov.6328 said:I could say the same about invulns :^)

Oh he went invuln, now what? Is he going to attack me or is he going to run away? lolOh look, he attacked me with a skill that I couldn't interrupt because he is immune to all I do.Oh look, invuln again and again and again.

Oh look he ran away, blah blah blah.

Yet no one is complaining so hard about them compared to the stealth complaints.Invulnerability is certainly annoying, but it gets less hate than stealth because it's used far less frequently in fights. If stealth were exactly as limited as invulnerability is, I'd have no problems with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...