Anet's understanding of balancing is a pain

[Sileeent.5861]

I don't even talk about classes, builds, or the current meta...If there are players who don't join the match, why is it still starting?!I really don't get it... :/

[Aeolus.3615]

All in the name of pve casual low effort gimmicks stack n spam.

Classes tend to be mainly designed around that hot and pof have increased that output since spam makes casuals and new players to outperform they’re personal skill.

Just remember how DH as much a bad designed elite is, how easy it was to outperform due how traps damage and how they worked, even I a mediocre player at best could easilly with low effort kill 4 players almost instatlntly just need to know how to reach low effort builds/ gimmicks.

That’s the main objective of the game... heavy on gimmicks that even lower skilled casuals can have its overperform momentum in the game.

[Sileeent.5861]

Did you read more than the title? LOL

[Solori.6025]

When you dont read the OP and reply to the title. ?On topic, it's an issue I thought Anet solved. I guess a better system for ready checks in the beginning or auto kick and replace could be something they add.But I don't think the interns that do PvP work know how to do that yet. Or even getting paid to try.

[Dadnir.5038]

I would have said that understanding ANet is a pain in itself.

[Marxx.5021]

Anet gives a sh** about PvP. Now it is scrapper - before it was mirage. Not to speak about rampage. Everybody who plays PvP knows its OP. But the balancing guy simply doesn't care about anything that is not PvE.

[Crab Fear.1624]

The title doesn't make sense with the content.

[Sileeent.5861]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:The title doesn't make sense with the content.

If a match started with 4 vs 5, that's not a kind of balancing? Sounds interesting, we should only play 4 vs 5 and always give one side the victory.

[Bazooka.3590]

Snowball. They make the game worse and worse -> more and more ppl going to leave -> Anet is going bankrupt -> they turn off servers -> we are losing our characters

[Vieux P.1238]

Balancing is a pain. That's why the whole spvp trait, skill's & ect.. system need's to be trashed & start fresh with a new fresh idea that does not require more then a rubber band to fix when tweaking. Complexity is good but not to the point of getting lost in your math translation. Pay me Anet & i'll do it.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Vieux P.1238 said:Balancing is a pain. That's why the whole spvp trait, skill's & ect.. system need's to be trashed & start fresh with a new fresh idea that does not require more then a rubber band to fix when tweaking. Complexity is good but not to the point of getting lost in your math translation. Pay me Anet & i'll do it.

They should honestly just go back to the first system they had.

[Vieux P.1238]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:Balancing is a pain. That's why the whole spvp trait, skill's & ect.. system need's to be trashed & start fresh with a new fresh idea that does not require more then a rubber band to fix when tweaking. Complexity is good but not to the point of getting lost in your math translation. Pay me Anet & i'll do it.

They should honestly just go back to the first system they had.

This kind of comment just shows how much peeps know about the problems & how not to fix em. To reply to your comment plainly. No! The old system was trash then is yet still trash now. Skill tree as it's was done then & now is just not the way to go for this game. It's just more problems to balance. Solution, TRASH IT! Start OVER! Start something NEW.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:Balancing is a pain. That's why the whole spvp trait, skill's & ect.. system need's to be trashed & start fresh with a new fresh idea that does not require more then a rubber band to fix when tweaking. Complexity is good but not to the point of getting lost in your math translation. Pay me Anet & i'll do it.

They should honestly just go back to the first system they had.

This kind of comment just shows how much peeps know about the problems & how not to fix em. To reply to your comment plainly. No! The old system was trash then is yet still trash now. Skill tree as it's was done then & now is just not the way to go for this game. It's just more problems to balance. Solution, TRASH IT! Start OVER! Start something NEW.

Nothing was wrong with the old school system as there was more options that players could choose when it came to traits that do not even warrant a grandmaster or master choice. Also! It allowed for builds to actually have trade offs.

Scale down stat numbers, put stat increasing on trait lines for how many points were put into it. The system was good, the inability to balance it because they wanted to push esport's simplicity is where they went wrong.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Aeolus.3615 said:All in the name of pve casual low effort gimmicks stack n spam.

Classes tend to be mainly designed around that hot and pof have increased that output since spam makes casuals and new players to outperform they’re personal skill.

Just remember how DH as much a bad designed elite is, how easy it was to outperform due how traps damage and how they worked, even I a mediocre player at best could easilly with low effort kill 4 players almost instatlntly just need to know how to reach low effort builds/ gimmicks.

That’s the main objective of the game... heavy on gimmicks that even lower skilled casuals can have its overperform momentum in the game.

Completely off topic and not even related to the OP but....

Incredibly good post, IMO. I was trying to explain why I don't really enjoy PvP in this game to my SO and this pretty much sums it up for me.

[Vieux P.1238]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:Balancing is a pain. That's why the whole spvp trait, skill's & ect.. system need's to be trashed & start fresh with a new fresh idea that does not require more then a rubber band to fix when tweaking. Complexity is good but not to the point of getting lost in your math translation. Pay me Anet & i'll do it.

They should honestly just go back to the first system they had.

This kind of comment just shows how much peeps know about the problems & how not to fix em. To reply to your comment plainly. No! The old system was trash then is yet still trash now. Skill tree as it's was done then & now is just not the way to go for this game. It's just more problems to balance. Solution, TRASH IT! Start OVER! Start something NEW.

Nothing was wrong with the old school system as there was more options that players could choose when it came to traits that do not even warrant a grandmaster or master choice. Also! It allowed for builds to actually have trade offs.

Scale down stat numbers, put stat increasing on trait lines for how many points were put into it. The system was good, the inability to balance it because they wanted to push esport's simplicity is where they went wrong.

Old system I remembered it to be as unbalance & hard to maintain as this system. I don't know what you remember but obvious not the same as me.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:Balancing is a pain. That's why the whole spvp trait, skill's & ect.. system need's to be trashed & start fresh with a new fresh idea that does not require more then a rubber band to fix when tweaking. Complexity is good but not to the point of getting lost in your math translation. Pay me Anet & i'll do it.

They should honestly just go back to the first system they had.

This kind of comment just shows how much peeps know about the problems & how not to fix em. To reply to your comment plainly. No! The old system was trash then is yet still trash now. Skill tree as it's was done then & now is just not the way to go for this game. It's just more problems to balance. Solution, TRASH IT! Start OVER! Start something NEW.

Nothing was wrong with the old school system as there was more options that players could choose when it came to traits that do not even warrant a grandmaster or master choice. Also! It allowed for builds to actually have trade offs.

Scale down stat numbers, put stat increasing on trait lines for how many points were put into it. The system was good, the inability to balance it because they wanted to push esport's simplicity is where they went wrong.

Old system I remembered it to be as unbalance & hard to maintain as this system. I don't know what you remember but obvious not the same as me.

Back then the game was more about unbalanced skills then it was about unbalanced traits.

[Vieux P.1238]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:Balancing is a pain. That's why the whole spvp trait, skill's & ect.. system need's to be trashed & start fresh with a new fresh idea that does not require more then a rubber band to fix when tweaking. Complexity is good but not to the point of getting lost in your math translation. Pay me Anet & i'll do it.

They should honestly just go back to the first system they had.

This kind of comment just shows how much peeps know about the problems & how not to fix em. To reply to your comment plainly. No! The old system was trash then is yet still trash now. Skill tree as it's was done then & now is just not the way to go for this game. It's just more problems to balance. Solution, TRASH IT! Start OVER! Start something NEW.

Nothing was wrong with the old school system as there was more options that players could choose when it came to traits that do not even warrant a grandmaster or master choice. Also! It allowed for builds to actually have trade offs.

Scale down stat numbers, put stat increasing on trait lines for how many points were put into it. The system was good, the inability to balance it because they wanted to push esport's simplicity is where they went wrong.

Old system I remembered it to be as unbalance & hard to maintain as this system. I don't know what you remember but obvious not the same as me.

Back then the game was more about unbalanced skills then it was about unbalanced traits.

Your right but i would say it was both.

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:Balancing is a pain. That's why the whole spvp trait, skill's & ect.. system need's to be trashed & start fresh with a new fresh idea that does not require more then a rubber band to fix when tweaking. Complexity is good but not to the point of getting lost in your math translation. Pay me Anet & i'll do it.

They should honestly just go back to the first system they had.

This kind of comment just shows how much peeps know about the problems & how not to fix em. To reply to your comment plainly. No! The old system was trash then is yet still trash now. Skill tree as it's was done then & now is just not the way to go for this game. It's just more problems to balance. Solution, TRASH IT! Start OVER! Start something NEW.

Nothing was wrong with the old school system as there was more options that players could choose when it came to traits that do not even warrant a grandmaster or master choice. Also! It allowed for builds to actually have trade offs.

Scale down stat numbers, put stat increasing on trait lines for how many points were put into it. The system was good, the inability to balance it because they wanted to push esport's simplicity is where they went wrong.

Old system I remembered it to be as unbalance & hard to maintain as this system. I don't know what you remember but obvious not the same as me.

Back then the game was more about unbalanced skills then it was about unbalanced traits.

Your right but i would say it was both.

Yeah I can agree with you on that one.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:All in the name of pve casual low effort gimmicks stack n spam.

Classes tend to be mainly designed around that hot and pof have increased that output since spam makes casuals and new players to outperform they’re personal skill.

Just remember how DH as much a bad designed elite is, how easy it was to outperform due how traps damage and how they worked, even I a mediocre player at best could easilly with low effort kill 4 players almost instatlntly just need to know how to reach low effort builds/ gimmicks.

That’s the main objective of the game... heavy on gimmicks that even lower skilled casuals can have its overperform momentum in the game.

Completely off topic and not even related to the OP but....

Incredibly good post, IMO. I was trying to explain why I don't really enjoy PvP in this game to my SO and this pretty much sums it up for me.

Yes, i know I went little bit offtopic but one can not talk about balance and players action/behavior w/o talking about skill design and spam design and mostly what is possible tonal leech and grief others in game all in the name of the casuals having a easier game, it’s the game design that allows and kinda creates people behaviors.

If skills and classes were fun and skilled to play rather than build for carry momentum builds pvp would be in much better state.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:All in the name of pve casual low effort gimmicks stack n spam.

Classes tend to be mainly designed around that hot and pof have increased that output since spam makes casuals and new players to outperform they’re personal skill.

Just remember how DH as much a bad designed elite is, how easy it was to outperform due how traps damage and how they worked, even I a mediocre player at best could easilly with low effort kill 4 players almost instatlntly just need to know how to reach low effort builds/ gimmicks.

That’s the main objective of the game... heavy on gimmicks that even lower skilled casuals can have its overperform momentum in the game.

Completely off topic and not even related to the OP but....

Incredibly good post, IMO. I was trying to explain why I don't really enjoy PvP in this game to my SO and this pretty much sums it up for me.

Yes, i know I went little bit offtopic but one can not talk about balance and players action/behavior w/o talking about skill design and spam design and mostly what is possible tonal leech and grief others in game all in the name of the casuals having a easier game, it’s the game design that allows and kinda creates people behaviors.

If skills and classes were fun and skilled to play rather than build for carry momentum builds pvp would be in much better state.

(You're always spot on)

Yesterday a new player told us in a competitive game that was fighting a Thief who was evading all her attacks. She obviously died than logged off to join us to complain about it to everyone. We told her that she was fighting a perma-evade thief who obviously in the name-can permanent evade all her attacks.

She was furious because she was doing her best 'why can this thief can evade all of my attacks'? what did i do wrong?

Talk about a game that claims of being fun with skill. This new player complaints did not stop there; she told everyone including potential players to stay away from Guild Wars 2.

When Anet is serious about implementing Fun=healthy competition with skill rather than toxic design- everyone else will know about it including potential-new players.

New-potential players are leaving and blaming themselves for doing something wrong and worse of all- feeling guilty after-do you see a future for this game?

Anet, you are punishing your future and making them feel bad to play the game.

[Aeolus.3615]

Perna evade? Staff build?

It can be a pain to deal if ur chosen class and weapon... that ends with a slow combination.. :/

That player was a very fresh player, he-she probably wasn’t running a decent gimmick build, must had tough it could fight with any build or something that wa making sense to play.

Game only tends to punish who doesn’t search for overperformance combos, wich imo is what Anet needs to cut the gap due some classes overperformance, itcan be to much while player effort get reduced.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:All in the name of pve casual low effort gimmicks stack n spam.

Classes tend to be mainly designed around that hot and pof have increased that output since spam makes casuals and new players to outperform they’re personal skill.

Just remember how DH as much a bad designed elite is, how easy it was to outperform due how traps damage and how they worked, even I a mediocre player at best could easilly with low effort kill 4 players almost instatlntly just need to know how to reach low effort builds/ gimmicks.

That’s the main objective of the game... heavy on gimmicks that even lower skilled casuals can have its overperform momentum in the game.

Completely off topic and not even related to the OP but....

Incredibly good post, IMO. I was trying to explain why I don't really enjoy PvP in this game to my SO and this pretty much sums it up for me.

Yes, i know I went little bit offtopic but one can not talk about balance and players action/behavior w/o talking about skill design and spam design and mostly what is possible tonal leech and grief others in game all in the name of the casuals having a easier game, it’s the game design that allows and kinda creates people behaviors.

If skills and classes were fun and skilled to play rather than build for carry momentum builds pvp would be in much better state.

(You're always spot on)

Yesterday a new player told us in a competitive game that was fighting a Thief who was evading all her attacks. She obviously died than logged off to join us to complain about it to everyone. We told her that she was fighting a perma-evade thief who obviously in the name-can permanent evade all her attacks.

She was furious because she was doing her best 'why can this thief can evade all of my attacks'? what did i do wrong?

Talk about a game that claims of being fun with skill. This new player complaints did not stop there; she told everyone including potential players to stay away from Guild Wars 2.

When Anet is serious about implementing Fun=healthy competition with skill rather than toxic design- everyone else will know about it including potential-new players.

New-potential players are leaving and blaming themselves for doing something wrong and worse of all- feeling guilty after-do you see a future for this game?

Anet, you are punishing your future and making them feel bad to play the game.

Here is what I got from this story:

A friend that was noob went into WvW and got stomped out by a skilled thief roamer.

The thief roamer obviously was more competent and bested her.

Your friend complained that someone more experienced beat her, and that her attacks didn't land automatically. (How come he avoid my attack, like for realz?)

Then they logged off, cried, wrote in their journal, hopped on facebook and told all their friends to stay away from GW2.

"perma evade thief"....lol....please educate your friend on punishment frames.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:All in the name of pve casual low effort gimmicks stack n spam.

Classes tend to be mainly designed around that hot and pof have increased that output since spam makes casuals and new players to outperform they’re personal skill.

Just remember how DH as much a bad designed elite is, how easy it was to outperform due how traps damage and how they worked, even I a mediocre player at best could easilly with low effort kill 4 players almost instatlntly just need to know how to reach low effort builds/ gimmicks.

That’s the main objective of the game... heavy on gimmicks that even lower skilled casuals can have its overperform momentum in the game.

Completely off topic and not even related to the OP but....

Incredibly good post, IMO. I was trying to explain why I don't really enjoy PvP in this game to my SO and this pretty much sums it up for me.

Yes, i know I went little bit offtopic but one can not talk about balance and players action/behavior w/o talking about skill design and spam design and mostly what is possible tonal leech and grief others in game all in the name of the casuals having a easier game, it’s the game design that allows and kinda creates people behaviors.

If skills and classes were fun and skilled to play rather than build for carry momentum builds pvp would be in much better state.

(You're always spot on)

Yesterday a new player told us in a competitive game that was fighting a Thief who was evading all her attacks. She obviously died than logged off to join us to complain about it to everyone. We told her that she was fighting a perma-evade thief who obviously in the name-can permanent evade all her attacks.

She was furious because she was doing her best 'why can this thief can evade all of my attacks'? what did i do wrong?

Talk about a game that claims of being fun with skill. This new player complaints did not stop there; she told everyone including potential players to stay away from Guild Wars 2.

When Anet is serious about implementing Fun=healthy competition with skill rather than toxic design- everyone else will know about it including potential-new players.

New-potential players are leaving and blaming themselves for doing something wrong and worse of all- feeling guilty after-do you see a future for this game?

Anet, you are punishing your future and making them feel bad to play the game.

Here is what I got from this story:

A friend that was noob went into WvW and got stomped out by a skilled thief roamer.

The thief roamer obviously was more competent and bested her.

Your friend complained that someone more experienced beat her, and that her attacks didn't land automatically. (How come he avoid my attack, like for realz?)

Then they logged off, cried, wrote in their journal, hopped on facebook and told all their friends to stay away from GW2.

"perma evade thief"....lol....please educate your friend on punishment frames.

'I admit I was not perfect at this game, I don't have a lot of experiences. In playing this game, i was called a 'noob" to the point I almost quit yet still hanged in there. I've did my best to improve by watching a lot of youtubers and reading the specific class i played'

This is what the new player posted in chat in that game.

I found a article i would share with you that best describes your toxic behavior. As the title says' your 'Elitism' is are driving away new players and hurting the game.

https://www.alteredgamer.com/worst-pc-gaming/45392-mmo-elitism-a-noob-nightmare/

('Gamers are able to gain positions that let them wield some power and for many of them it might be their first taste. Well power corrupts and a healthy proportion uses their position, status and knowledge of the game to belittle others')

'Picking on new players because they haven’t yet learned a game seems ridiculous to me. It is one of those things that only happen because of the anonymity of the environment. Imagine a kid in the park playing football. He may be rubbish but he’s learning. If someone who played for a local team ran up to him and told him he sucked you would think that person was an idiot'

'here will always be situations where a noob does something to interfere with or detract from someone else’s game. They will get flamed for it and fair enough as long as it is at least partly constructive (i.e. tells them what they did wrong). Most noobs will acknowledge they deserved it if they have done something wrong and it will help them learn. There are also times when veterans offer unwanted advice or just casual abuse. They are in effect saying “You are an idiot because you don’t play this game as much as I do and you haven’t learned every tiny facet of it.” Admittedly it may be a small proportion of veterans who do this but they are very vocal and they create a bad atmosphere which discourages new players from persisting.'

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:All in the name of pve casual low effort gimmicks stack n spam.

Classes tend to be mainly designed around that hot and pof have increased that output since spam makes casuals and new players to outperform they’re personal skill.

Just remember how DH as much a bad designed elite is, how easy it was to outperform due how traps damage and how they worked, even I a mediocre player at best could easilly with low effort kill 4 players almost instatlntly just need to know how to reach low effort builds/ gimmicks.

That’s the main objective of the game... heavy on gimmicks that even lower skilled casuals can have its overperform momentum in the game.

Completely off topic and not even related to the OP but....

Incredibly good post, IMO. I was trying to explain why I don't really enjoy PvP in this game to my SO and this pretty much sums it up for me.

Yes, i know I went little bit offtopic but one can not talk about balance and players action/behavior w/o talking about skill design and spam design and mostly what is possible tonal leech and grief others in game all in the name of the casuals having a easier game, it’s the game design that allows and kinda creates people behaviors.

If skills and classes were fun and skilled to play rather than build for carry momentum builds pvp would be in much better state.

(You're always spot on)

Yesterday a new player told us in a competitive game that was fighting a Thief who was evading all her attacks. She obviously died than logged off to join us to complain about it to everyone. We told her that she was fighting a perma-evade thief who obviously in the name-can permanent evade all her attacks.

She was furious because she was doing her best 'why can this thief can evade all of my attacks'? what did i do wrong?

Talk about a game that claims of being fun with skill. This new player complaints did not stop there; she told everyone including potential players to stay away from Guild Wars 2.

When Anet is serious about implementing Fun=healthy competition with skill rather than toxic design- everyone else will know about it including potential-new players.

New-potential players are leaving and blaming themselves for doing something wrong and worse of all- feeling guilty after-do you see a future for this game?

Anet, you are punishing your future and making them feel bad to play the game.

Here is what I got from this story:

A friend that was noob went into WvW and got stomped out by a skilled thief roamer.

The thief roamer obviously was more competent and bested her.

Your friend complained that someone more experienced beat her, and that her attacks didn't land automatically. (How come he avoid my attack, like for realz?)

Then they logged off, cried, wrote in their journal, hopped on facebook and told all their friends to stay away from GW2.

"perma evade thief"....lol....please educate your friend on punishment frames.

-snips-

Uh, no.

It's actually aggravating that you seem to be under the impression that watching few videos and reading a few guides should make one be able to compete with one who has practiced for hours, played for years, and study the ins and outs of their professions mechanics as well as their competition.

It's like when someone who always watched basketball, loved it, new all the rules but then one day they actually played it against people who had for years. They don't get mad when they get dunked on.

They go back, learn from their mistakes, and practice.

The concept is the same.

You see have no respect for the effort some players have put into becoming or "getting gud" in this or any other game I imagine.

Why do I think this? You told a story about a new person getting wrecked as if it was a problem.

You point me to an article claiming I am elitist, when actually it's just reality.

It is not elitist to expect those more seasoned, practiced, and skilled to out perform new and green players.

If you want fun without stress, go to open world PVE.

In competitive environments you are competing against other humans, some with unpredictable behavior.

You are not entitled to "beat" them.

Their are roamer of all types who have success against all classes, even thieves.....even roaming necros versus thieves

Despite some weakening of the thief class, it is not actually true that any class should be able to beat a thief easily.

Roaming in WvW allows thieves more build variety, freedom, and realistically no time-limit to duel.

It's not SPvP.

The best thieves make the class description, the one you read upon character creation, true.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

If that player hated a skilled thief that bad they'd really hate my soulbeast lol