LW story instances could be the answer and compromise for people who wants dungeons back.

[Nebilim.5127]

Think about it, a lot of the story we have already feels like a full straight dungeon path, the only thing they are missing is to be harder and replayable. The kralky fight in thunderhead keep and last LW, could easily turn into a dungeon if they just added a story/explorable mode, where explorable mode would feature tougher enemies and perhaps even new ones that can be fetched from the overworld map,then add some reward tokens ala dungeons and should be good to go. Rewards could even be recycled from the LW map like the dragonblood weapons and the aurene weapons, which honestly would feel a lot more better than relying on some crazy grind or abysmal rng in case of the aurene weapon.

[Jora.5471]

It would probably take even more work than just create a regular dungeon.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Dungeons aren't gone. The game even has two types: the original dungeons dovetailing the personal story (sort of) and fractal dungeons, some of which are literally LW instanced content, using the same dialogue.

LW Story instances aren't any sort of "compromise." Nearly everyone (even ANet) wants to bring back LW. The question is: what will it look like as a reboot and what will it cost. Making them repeatable dungeons doesn't address either.

Without explaining clearly what is different about fractal dungeons, there's no way anyone (ANet or other) could deliver what you want. Four of the existing fractals are near-identical to what we had during LS1. The only difference is the lack of context of the umbrella story, which would be identical in experience to anyone doing the game's original dungeon without having done the personal story (the old-school dungeons dump you right in the middle of a situation; the external context is explained in the PS).

[Poormany.4507]

Not really a fan of this idea, having to redo instances over and over with long dialogue is already annoying due to disconnects. Having to grind through them for achievements and rewards would be too big of a pain as instances are designed right now. I could see it working though if they implemented a 'skip dialogue' option in the instances. However, I doubt this will happen and they'll probably just keep releasing new fractals, which are more combat/teamwork focused with less lengthy dialogues.

[Tommo Chocolate.5870]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

• Dungeons aren't gone. The game even has two types: the original dungeons dovetailing the personal story (sort of) and fractal dungeons, some of which are literally LW instanced content, using the same dialogue.
• LW Story instances aren't any sort of "compromise." Nearly everyone (even ANet) wants to bring back LW. The question is: what will it look like as a reboot and what will it cost. Making them repeatable dungeons doesn't address either.
• Without explaining clearly what is different about fractal dungeons, there's no way anyone (ANet or other) could deliver what you want. Four of the existing fractals are near-identical to what we had during LS1. The only difference is the lack of context of the umbrella story, which would be identical in experience to anyone doing the game's original dungeon without having done the personal story (the old-school dungeons dump you right in the middle of a situation; the external context is explained in the PS).

This suggestion isn't about bringing back Living World Season 1, it's about making new and/or existing Living World instances repeatable (for rewards) with an optional harder difficulty level. Given that we see a lot of complaints about Living World episodes not offering enough content because many players just play through the story once and don't see any value in replaying it, this seems like a very sensible idea to me.

And obviously the OP knows that the existing dungeons haven't been removed from the game! Why would you think that?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said:And obviously the OP knows that the existing dungeons haven't been removed from the game! Why would you think that?"LW story instances could be the answer and compromise for people who wants dungeons back."

[Substance E.4852]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said:And obviously the OP knows that the existing dungeons haven't been removed from the game! Why would you think that?"LW story instances could be the answer and compromise for people who wants dungeons back."

Yes, I'm sure they in no way meant back as in they want them back as supported, updated game content that sees regular additions rather than being an utterly dead, abandoned system.

I'm sure they literally meant back in the game because they thought they were removed via a patch.

[Yannir.4132]

From a designers perspective this is a bad solution because it's "too easy". Easy in the way story and mechanics would work, because that's the side everyone sees and understands, even if the coding work needed was laborious. It wouldn't be very original, kinda leaning on work that's been done earlier, and it also doesn't form into a cohesive body of work. Easy and lazy solutions will get called out and critiqued by the consumers. You know gamers are a picky crowd.

[Tommo Chocolate.5870]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said:And obviously the OP knows that the existing dungeons haven't been removed from the game! Why would you think that?"LW story instances could be the answer and compromise for people who wants dungeons back."

Ok, but did you read the post, or just the title? From the post it's pretty clear - to me at least - that they meant "people who want dungeons back in development", not "people who want specific discontinued dungeons back".

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:And obviously the OP knows that the existing dungeons haven't been removed from the game! Why would you think that?"LW story instances could be the answer and compromise for people who wants dungeons back."

Ok, but did you read the post, or just the title? From the post it's pretty clear - to me at least - that they meant "people who want dungeons back in development", not "people who want specific discontinued dungeons back".

TBH I read the Op's title to this thread the same way Ilc has... the title suggests to me that dungeons are gone and the OP wants them back and more/new to add.Thankfully, being an active vet of the game I know that dungeons have not gone anywhere, they are still alive and well (at least to me as I never struggle to get a dungeon run when I want to).As a side note.. fracs are the way for the game to give a little bit of LW story with some dungeon collaboration tied in.. works well for me and likely quite a few others imo.

[kasoki.5180]

Fractals are not dungeons. They dont have even remotely same amount of lore. Little that they do is often chaotic and placed in different points in time.

Also, dungeons had a good token system allowing you to collect some of the best do skins in the game.

Third, pacing of dungeons and fractals is completely different. They arent played in the same way. And lot of that comes from lore aspects of the dungeons

Thats why many people want dungeons back and why to many people dungeons and fractals dont feel like interchangable content.

I honestly think that last boss encounter of LW should be a dungeon. Not just Kralkk here but also Joko and Caudecus for example. Although to be fair it would be kind of odd for immersion to have five commanders in the same room xD

[serialkicker.5274]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

• Dungeons aren't gone. The game even has two types: the original dungeons dovetailing the personal story (sort of) and fractal dungeons, some of which are literally LW instanced content, using the same dialogue.
• LW Story instances aren't any sort of "compromise." Nearly everyone (even ANet) wants to bring back LW. The question is: what will it look like as a reboot and what will it cost. Making them repeatable dungeons doesn't address either.
• Without explaining clearly what is different about fractal dungeons, there's no way anyone (ANet or other) could deliver what you want. Four of the existing fractals are near-identical to what we had during LS1. The only difference is the lack of context of the umbrella story, which would be identical in experience to anyone doing the game's original dungeon without having done the personal story (the old-school dungeons dump you right in the middle of a situation; the external context is explained in the PS).

Oh, developers know what the difference between dungeons and fractals is. And you know it too. Telling OP they got 6 years old dungeons who were not updated in a long time and are not on par with todays end game content is just not what I'd call an argument. OP is clearly passionate about certain aspect of the game and would like to see more of it, just like any other player with their preferences.

Fractals are not dungeons, plain and simple. They have clearly different designs and mechanics and thus were given their own LFG category and named "Fractals", rather than being just another dungeon. Fractals don't have story mode, have in my opinion lame progression system, have agony resistance, which makes playing with alts somewhat restricted and so on. Dungeons are simple and accessible to everyone, only tied to level of a character. Now, that doesn't meant I don't like the idea of putting some kind of progression system or anything else for dungeons, but I personally don't like how things are handled with Fractals.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:Four of the existing fractals are near-identical to what we had during LS1.Notice the differences though, and how they are significant.

1. Four of the existing fractals are made of parts of two earlier LS dungeons. They had to cut each of those dungeons in two (and some pats flat out remove) before the content was good for fractals.
2. When Molten Duo fractal got expanded by using parts of the original dungeon, it was for the most part disliked. People didn't want the long stretches of corridors filled with nothing but trash in their fractals.

In many ways, Fractals are closer to Raid paradigm than to the dungeon one. What people expect from them is a number of boss fights separated by only relatively short walks, with as few of trash mobs as possible. They also expect a single fractal run to be a relatively short experience. On the contrary, in Dungeons , the distances are greater, there's way more trash mobs, and they are expected to be done over a longer period of time. And that's without even going into things like agony mechanics.

The differences may be hard to quantify, but they aren't small.

[Vancho.8750]

The idea is great cause most of the big fights in the story are dungeons that are not repeatable, seems like a big waste to me that you are one and done with them since a lot of them have really good mechanics. Maybe they can add them as different kind of fractal or even in some cooler ones like the Thunderhead keep Kralkatoric or Balthazar fight as a lets say "Fractal Raid".And also Fractals are dungeons and they are even better then the old ones, cause there is not much pointless fluff and RP with NPCs that drag their ass slowly and sometime bug out. Fractals are streamlined and have the option to be made in multiple settings instead of doing the same place 4 times with different end boss. I don't know why people whine about the old dungeons they are quite crap compared to everything else in the game.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Vancho.8750" said:And also Fractals are dungeons and they are even better then the old ones, cause there is not much pointless fluff and RP with NPCs that drag their kitten slowly and sometime bug out. Fractals are streamlined and have the option to be made in multiple settings instead of doing the same place 4 times with different end boss. I don't know why people whine about the old dungeons they are quite kitten compared to everything else in the game.

See, besides the part about the bugs (because nobody likes those), all the things you mention as negatives for dungeons and positives for fractals, for me are exactly opposite. So, you have your answer: the people "whine" about the old dungeons, because they are not you, and thus like different things than you.

[Samnang.1879]

please no. i prefer open world stroytelling if i crash it doesnt' reset everything. instanced LW is not good...