The un-needed nerf of Reaper Touch... — Guild Wars 2 Forums

The un-needed nerf of Reaper Touch...

Per the update notes-

Reaper's Touch: This skill has been significantly reworked, and it has been renamed Soul Grasp.

Soul Grasp: This skill has two casts. Each cast sends forth a disembodied hand to inflict vulnerability on foes, grant the necromancer life force, and steal health from a foe.

Seriously Devs... what were you thinking? This isn't even a nerf... you GUTTED the skill completely to the point of making it ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS.

Like, literally NO ONE was complaining about the balance of Reaper Touch. At least none that I saw anywhere. The place where it was most useful was WvW and again, no one was complaining about it.

What was the "logic" behind this unwanted "balancing"?

Comments

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    1) did you really need 2 threads about this and 2) ppl were complaining about it because of the same reasons focus 4 on guardian was changed.

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Lost some damage, healing

    Gained some consistency and reliability

    No change is ever going to be to everyone's liking but at least this is not a straight nerf

  • @Khisanth.2948 said:
    Lost some damage, healing

    Gained some consistency and reliability

    No change is ever going to be to everyone's liking but at least this is not a straight nerf

    You don't need the consistency and reliability (I assume you mean being able to sustain damage pressure) if you are just... good...

    And yes it is a straight nerf, they completely gutted the skill and changed it into something totally different.

    That's like getting hit with the nerf bat then run over by the nerf dumptruck only to have it unload 50,000 nerf balls to suffocate you with...

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You should be complaining about the warhorn, not the focus

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2019

    @Solomon Darkfury.3729 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    Lost some damage, healing

    Gained some consistency and reliability

    No change is ever going to be to everyone's liking but at least this is not a straight nerf

    You don't need the consistency and reliability (I assume you mean being able to sustain damage pressure) if you are just... good...

    I don't. In the old version the actual results depends on who is standing near your target and how many of them around. You might heal yourself, you might heal an ally, you might not heal anyone. Same with the damage aspects. There are a bunch of different permutations.

    Healing from the regen also takes time and susceptible to boon strip. On the other hand boon duration would have been a huge multiplier for increasing how much healing you get out of it.

    Feedback simply claiming a change is bad without actually providing any reasons will probably gets ignored.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @HardRider.2980 said:
    It is actually better now. As a long time necromancer player that skill before today was always soo bad. Literally the only reason people took focus was because of 5 skill.
    To say a few complaints would be undermining the MANY complaints about it over the years. Just because you liked it does not mean it was good.

    Well said, change his always hard to adjust to for many. Made me shift gear from making Verdarach to Binding of Ipos to go with my Astralaria.

  • PseudoNewb.5468PseudoNewb.5468 Member ✭✭✭

    At least it can now be used at long range 601-1200 without a broken bouncing mechanic. At some point in the past, they increased it's range, but left it's bounce distance alone. That means, that if you cast it at a lonely target from max range it would only do 1/5 of it's possible effects because it would have no valid bounce targets.

    One on one and within the bounce range, it would proc damage three times and regen twice, so it does seem like, with 2 casts, they make it slower to use, and they seemed nerfed the number of offensive hits every 15s from 3 to 2, and then the seem to have nerfed the vulnerability stacks per hit too.

    Seems like they changed it's focus from, causes vulnerability, to draw life force.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well a lot of people were complaining about the old version, reapers touch.

    Me myself as well.

    1. It wasn't a homing missle, could be out run pretty easily.
    2. 1200 range but it bounced. Hitting only one target at that range gave no reward, even though it was super hard to hit because of point 1
    3. The bounces: fighting in a group sometimes did only hit the target enemy once, then bounced between allies, applying regeneration, which was overwritten by any other regeneration tick

    That doesn't mean I'm a fan of the new skill.
    I like that it generates so much lifeforce.

    The other effect is rather meh... It can't crit anymore, which is very sad, also vulnerability is gone...

    But the biggest issue is the travel-speed of the projectile.
    1. it's a projectile that can be reflected
    2. I think someone posted the traveltime towards a target, 1200 units away from you: 3 seconds, that's way too long for such a small effect. If it would hit really hard, then ok. But like this, doing only 800 dmg? I don't know. Not so good in my opinion.
    3. And that's the worst point: you can still just run away. After the projectile traveled it's 1200 units it just vanishes.

  • Warscythes.9307Warscythes.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    Well a lot of people were complaining about the old version, reapers touch.

    Me myself as well.

    1. It wasn't a homing missle, could be out run pretty easily.
    2. 1200 range but it bounced. Hitting only one target at that range gave no reward, even though it was super hard to hit because of point 1
    3. The bounces: fighting in a group sometimes did only hit the target enemy once, then bounced between allies, applying regeneration, which was overwritten by any other regeneration tick

    That doesn't mean I'm a fan of the new skill.
    I like that it generates so much lifeforce.

    The other effect is rather meh... It can't crit anymore, which is very sad, also vulnerability is gone...

    But the biggest issue is the travel-speed of the projectile.
    1. it's a projectile that can be reflected
    2. I think someone posted the traveltime towards a target, 1200 units away from you: 3 seconds, that's way too long for such a small effect. If it would hit really hard, then ok. But like this, doing only 800 dmg? I don't know. Not so good in my opinion.
    3. And that's the worst point: you can still just run away. After the projectile traveled it's 1200 units it just vanishes.

    Soul grasp still applies vulnerability.

    But I can agree the main issue is that is too slow, increase the projectile speed and is a solid PvP weapon.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Warscythes.9307 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    Well a lot of people were complaining about the old version, reapers touch.

    Me myself as well.

    1. It wasn't a homing missle, could be out run pretty easily.
    2. 1200 range but it bounced. Hitting only one target at that range gave no reward, even though it was super hard to hit because of point 1
    3. The bounces: fighting in a group sometimes did only hit the target enemy once, then bounced between allies, applying regeneration, which was overwritten by any other regeneration tick

    That doesn't mean I'm a fan of the new skill.
    I like that it generates so much lifeforce.

    The other effect is rather meh... It can't crit anymore, which is very sad, also vulnerability is gone...

    But the biggest issue is the travel-speed of the projectile.
    1. it's a projectile that can be reflected
    2. I think someone posted the traveltime towards a target, 1200 units away from you: 3 seconds, that's way too long for such a small effect. If it would hit really hard, then ok. But like this, doing only 800 dmg? I don't know. Not so good in my opinion.
    3. And that's the worst point: you can still just run away. After the projectile traveled it's 1200 units it just vanishes.

    Soul grasp still applies vulnerability.

    It does? Couldn't remember it from the 10 minutes of testing.

    I did mainly test pve dmg rota with different types of food and traits

    But I can agree the main issue is that is too slow, increase the projectile speed and is a solid PvP weapon.

  • Psaro.6178Psaro.6178 Member ✭✭

    I believe the new focus 4 is much better than it's predecessor

  • Falcon.8713Falcon.8713 Member ✭✭

    They should start making up their mind about necromancer's offhand weapons;
    They reworked both warhorn and focus to have the same lame kitten life siphon that isn't even useful..
    Vuln stacks sure, not needed, life force gain sure, that's 1 thing that can be worked with.
    But why in the name of grenth do condis have 2 viable options and power not 1 offhand that scales of our stats ?
    Both have become utility weapons that live in a shadow of their former self. At least 1 of warhorn or focus should be reworked towards a power offhand.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It applies 5 stacks of vulnerability, so you missed that.

  • new focus 4 is really good at least in pvp best thing in this patch for reaper imo

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2019

    Reaper's Touch was overall a very unreliable skill. Therefore people complained. No one complained about the effects it had (which were very good).

    It was great in two scenarios:

    • two targets standing right next to each other
    • a melee cast right before entering shroud to have a nice burst

    In these scenarios the damage was great, the LF generation was great and the vulnerability application was great.

    Now it's only good for one single thing: LF generation. That's it. This it can do a bit more reliable than before.

    In contrast it deals negligible damage, it's bad for vulnerability stacking (ammo cooldown of 3s, vulnerability duration 6s), the leeching is useless.

    Locust Swarm got an even bigger usability hit, GS5 got a hidden nerf because they did not increase the animation speed for the higher travel distance (it's easier to dodge now) and they did not adjust the cone so that the pull covers a smaller area in terms of wideness.

    But this is not the topic in this thread...

  • gavyne.6847gavyne.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    It's pretty much used for lifeforce regen now. And for double weapon builds, it's a welcome change since LF is often an issue when you go staff-less. You can now more reliably get LF.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personally. I despise the focus 4 change. It feels awful. Life steal is fine, but the issues I have with it are beyond just that. It's life force now is better, but its slower and breaks rotations more. Its projectile is still extremely slow and its removed what little support the necromancer has outside of Scourge. The theme now of Focus seems to be SLOW. And not like the reaper's greatsword were it hits like a truck. Just slow.

    Also the life steal on Warhorn doesn't work while in shroud. Just thought I'd throw that in. I actually really like the warhorn change. Its great. But that bug needs to be fixed.

  • Agreed Lily. The projectile speed is ridiculous. I understood itd be eventually fixed in terms of actually landing but this change they've made and deciding to leave it at that speed is unreal. Someone mentioned the 3 second travel time at full distance... pvp wise you need to be sitting on their head or vs an afk for a hit. I know we're the slow class but they're pulling the p with this rework. I might have to try dagger at this rate.../shivers.

  • Hesacon.8735Hesacon.8735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:

    @HardRider.2980 said:
    It is actually better now. As a long time necromancer player that skill before today was always soo bad. Literally the only reason people took focus was because of 5 skill.
    To say a few complaints would be undermining the MANY complaints about it over the years. Just because you liked it does not mean it was good.

    Well said, change his always hard to adjust to for many. Made me shift gear from making Verdarach to Binding of Ipos to go with my Astralaria.

    The stellar weapons from Istan look better with Astralaria than other legendaries.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2019

    @Lily.1935 said:
    Also the life steal on Warhorn doesn't work while in shroud. Just thought I'd throw that in. I actually really like the warhorn change. Its great. But that bug needs to be fixed.

    Focus 4 lifesteal does not work in shroud too btw.

    The heal will fail if you cast the projectile and enter shroud before it hits the target (which happens pretty often since the projectile is awfully slow).

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Reapers touch the skill that would never hit anything above 400 range if it moved or suddenly stopped or started making change in direction after you launched it.
    The skill that was completely unreliable and could randomly miss another person as bounced off your target if they stopped making change in direction or started.

    The skill that literally was garbage unless you were touching your target despite it having 1200 range. Generally this is a upgrade to the skill when you look at core necomancer its an easy life force sustain building tool It also will not proc things like full counter shocking aura or other pushing on hit effects that react specifically to strikes.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dceptaconroy.7928 said:
    Agreed Lily. The projectile speed is ridiculous. I understood itd be eventually fixed in terms of actually landing but this change they've made and deciding to leave it at that speed is unreal. Someone mentioned the 3 second travel time at full distance... pvp wise you need to be sitting on their head or vs an afk for a hit. I know we're the slow class but they're pulling the p with this rework. I might have to try dagger at this rate.../shivers.

    The skill is slightly to slow but considering it will actually hit unless dodged now makes it consistent and not clunky which was the main complaint behind the old focus 4
    Its tracking is similar to death shroud 2 so no... it will hit your target pretty much always unless they dodge or block it now it does feel odd though because it does not perform a strike the damage works more like vampiric auras damage unless you are watching close its easy to miss in the chaos of a fight.

    Ive been using it and its been hitting just fine for me but it feels odd because it does not perform a strike. Ideally you dont have that essence of feeling the hit follow through like you do with most attacks but generally i check the combat log as i fight and it is hitting unless people dodge , block, or blink away regardless of how they are moving around.

  • Charrbeque.8729Charrbeque.8729 Member ✭✭✭

    The problem I had with focus 4 before the update was being able to actually hit stuff with it.

    Using it on players and NPCs in WvW I would regularly get hit with "Obstructed" on level terrain, such as at camps.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solomon Darkfury.3729 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    Lost some damage, healing

    Gained some consistency and reliability

    No change is ever going to be to everyone's liking but at least this is not a straight nerf

    You don't need the consistency and reliability (I assume you mean being able to sustain damage pressure) if you are just... good...

    And yes it is a straight nerf, they completely gutted the skill and changed it into something totally different.

    That's like getting hit with the nerf bat then run over by the nerf dumptruck only to have it unload 50,000 nerf balls to suffocate you with...

    That doesn't make much sense honestly ... just because they made the skill something completely different doesn't mean it's a nerf.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The skill was quite unreliable beforehand, that cant be argued.

  • DragonFury.6243DragonFury.6243 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2019

    @Solomon Darkfury.3729 said:
    Per the update notes-

    Reaper's Touch: This skill has been significantly reworked, and it has been renamed Soul Grasp.

    Soul Grasp: This skill has two casts. Each cast sends forth a disembodied hand to inflict vulnerability on foes, grant the necromancer life force, and steal health from a foe.

    Seriously Devs... what were you thinking? This isn't even a nerf... you GUTTED the skill completely to the point of making it ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS.

    Like, literally NO ONE was complaining about the balance of Reaper Touch. At least none that I saw anywhere. The place where it was most useful was WvW and again, no one was complaining about it.

    What was the "logic" behind this unwanted "balancing"?

    dev are scared that necro may get out of control that why when they give some buff they do some limitation (some how nerf but it is not a nerf )
    same goes for Life Rend and Life Slash they didnt make the 180 radius to be a multiplier of 60

  • Etterwyn.5263Etterwyn.5263 Member ✭✭✭

    @Charrbeque.8729 said:
    The problem I had with focus 4 before the update was being able to actually hit stuff with it.

    Heh, now it moves so slow, I have the same problem but for a different reason. :lol:

    WvW™ - where you find more Red Rings of Death than an Xbox repair facility.

  • HardRider.2980HardRider.2980 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:

    @HardRider.2980 said:
    It is actually better now. As a long time necromancer player that skill before today was always soo bad. Literally the only reason people took focus was because of 5 skill.
    To say a few complaints would be undermining the MANY complaints about it over the years. Just because you liked it does not mean it was good.

    Well said, change his always hard to adjust to for many. Made me shift gear from making Verdarach to Binding of Ipos to go with my Astralaria.

    Same. Even now I'm reconsidering making Ipos now. I didn't want to make a legendary just for one skill.

    A City of Heroes never die... A City of Villains will never surrender... Neither City will be forgotten.

  • Sublimatio.6981Sublimatio.6981 Member ✭✭✭

    @Solomon Darkfury.3729 said:

    Like, literally NO ONE was complaining about the balance of Reaper Touch. At least none that I saw anywhere. The place where it was most useful was WvW and again, no one was complaining about it.

    that's wrong, i complained about it a lot, that skill was terrible. but it's even worse now, so that's bad.

    "clang clang shriiiiek clang!" -Belinda Delaqua
    When I join your LFG

  • BaLzA.8902BaLzA.8902 Member ✭✭

    As an "hystorical" power necro **PvE **(Raid/Fractal) user... i have absolutly no clue on what off-hand to use...

    Both warhorn and focus now sucks hard, bringing a waste-of-time instead of damage of the field.
    The patch "buffed" PvP / Condi side of them, ignoring the Power/PvE aspect. I cannot conceive with what criteria certain changes are inserted.

    The wh bugs & foci projectiles does NO damage, does not scale, and with cast CD.

    My suggestion is just camp shroud/GS as most as you can, and wait for devs to get aware of the situation and find a solution.

    The damage nerf was really not necessary nor appreciated.
    My 2 cents

  • @BaLzA.8902 said:
    As an "hystorical" power necro **PvE **(Raid/Fractal) user... i have absolutly no clue on what off-hand to use...

    Both warhorn and focus now sucks hard, bringing a waste-of-time instead of damage of the field.
    The patch "buffed" PvP / Condi side of them, ignoring the Power/PvE aspect. I cannot conceive with what criteria certain changes are inserted.

    The wh bugs & foci projectiles does NO damage, does not scale, and with cast CD.

    My suggestion is just camp shroud/GS as most as you can, and wait for devs to get aware of the situation and find a solution.

    The damage nerf was really not necessary nor appreciated.
    My 2 cents

    It wasn’t really a buff in pvp either. War horn 5 duration is simply too brief, and by the time your in range of the enemy the effect is already half way over.

    Focus 4 is also way too slow and unreliable that I don’t even use it. Once it reaches 1200 range travel distance it disappears, which makes it difficult for it to reach its target.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solomon Darkfury.3729 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    1) did you really need 2 threads about this and 2) ppl were complaining about it because of the same reasons focus 4 on guardian was changed.

    ANET needs to stop determining all their "balances" based on a few complaining pvpers... They've done it for 5 years and it craps all over builds in other game modes. Was hoping the changes to the dev team would fix that but I guess not...

    The skill was useful against single target. Against multiple targets it sucked.
    Spinal shivers was the skill no one really complained. Reapers touch was probably the most complained I know about. And not by PvPers only. I play mainly PvE and I am happy about the change.

  • Blood Red Arachnid.2493Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2019

    I would rather have an inconsistently good skill than a consistently bad one. The new locust swarm and reapers touch went from situationally good to ubiquitously terrible.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2019

    I can get over the reaper's touch change. The skill became not completely useless even though I don't like it.

    But locust swarm is not even worth the 0,5s cast time. I am serious! It's incredibly bad. Such a weak skill has to have a 15s cooldown. Until this is fixed I will never ever use warhorn again. Even the awful offhand dagger is better now. Dagger/warhorn became the definition of underpowered.

    A bandaid fix for reaper's touch and locust swarm would be to make them critable. Both skills would become 100% more viable (still not perfect).

    I don't know what they were thinking:

    • BM leechings can't crit, I get that, but dagger2 can and all other weapon leechings should too. Necro slowly becomes the class with the most "can not crit" effects in the game, which is hilarious as we have two (!) grandmaster traits boosting critical damage.
    • And why the hell did they remove that cripple? Spiteful spirit is a must pick now for power reapers as we desperately need movement impairing conditions in shroud. Without the cripple everyone can just walk out of the attack range.
    • While we are talking about attack range: why didn't they made the range of shroud attacks a multiplier of 60? We've still these weird 170 and 220 ranges.
    • Are there two balance teams for necro that are not communicating with each other or what? All I see is more and more inconsistencies.
  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 19, 2019

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    • And why the hell did they remove that cripple? Spiteful spirit is a must pick now for power reapers as we desperately need movement impairing conditions in shroud. Without the cripple everyone can just walk out of the attack range.

    Come on, you know how it work... Anet introduced scourge with kitten of cripple on shade, PvP and WvW players complained that "necromancer" got to much cripple and then months later they look at necromancer's cripple and remove it from locust swarm to appease a community that have long resigned itself to be perma crippled and focused on different, more urgent, balance issues.

    Never fix the issue, always fix the consequences! It doesn't matter if it's late.

  • dceptaconroy.7928dceptaconroy.7928 Member ✭✭✭

    All we need is a 'rework' to offhand dagger. Let's go for the triple. To have both our regulars hit in 1 patch was breathtaking.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dceptaconroy.7928 said:
    All we need is a 'rework' to offhand dagger. Let's go for the triple. To have both our regulars hit in 1 patch was breathtaking.

    Honestly, after the rework to warhorn, I wouldn't ask for a rework for any other necro weapon.
    That could (actually pretty high chance) make the weapon even worse

  • dceptaconroy.7928dceptaconroy.7928 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @dceptaconroy.7928 said:
    All we need is a 'rework' to offhand dagger. Let's go for the triple. To have both our regulars hit in 1 patch was breathtaking.

    Honestly, after the rework to warhorn, I wouldn't ask for a rework for any other necro weapon.
    That could (actually pretty high chance) make the weapon even worse

    Yeah I was just throwing my hands up in frustration with that statement. Agreed they'd make it worse.

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭

    I can outrun reapers touch on speed runes ooc. Tested it.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XECOR.2814 said:
    I can outrun reapers touch on speed runes ooc. Tested it.

    Now take a class that has even one teleport or leap...

    Easy.

  • Engal.6359Engal.6359 Member ✭✭✭

    Wait this was a buff what are you complaining about?

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Engal.6359 said:
    Wait this was a buff what are you complaining about?

    To be precise. It was a typical buff-nerf that happens pretty often to necro.
    Buff: more reliable (homing) and more lifeforce.
    Nerf: slower projectile (at least it feels much slower now) less dmg when you hit the skill

    Same for warhorn
    Buff: faster ticks
    Nerf: a lot less dmg (no crits), doesn't heal while in shroud

  • Etterwyn.5263Etterwyn.5263 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Engal.6359 said:
    Wait this was a buff what are you complaining about?

    To be precise. It was a typical buff-nerf that happens pretty often to necro.
    Buff: more reliable (homing) and more lifeforce.
    Nerf: slower projectile (at least it feels much slower now) less dmg when you hit the skill

    Same for warhorn
    Buff: faster ticks
    Nerf: a lot less dmg (no crits), doesn't heal while in shroud

    and no longer cripples, which is a huge deal.

    WvW™ - where you find more Red Rings of Death than an Xbox repair facility.

  • Engal.6359Engal.6359 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    To be precise. It was a typical buff-nerf that happens pretty often to necro.

    You mean.... Balance?

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Engal.6359 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    To be precise. It was a typical buff-nerf that happens pretty often to necro.

    You mean.... Balance?

    Well... You could maybe call necro the most balanced class, cause these buff-nerfs happen all the time.
    Other classes just get straight buffs or straight nerfs most of the time

  • Engal.6359Engal.6359 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    You could maybe call necro the most balanced class, cause these buff-nerfs happen all the time.

    😂 "most balanced" scourge is so good it has been a part of every team in pvp since its release. Every good team in rPvP has a discussion at the beginning of the match where they're like, "focus the necro or were screwed". Every game. It dominates any and every team fight. There shouldn't be only one profession that can fill a role, that runs counter to the game's design. Both elite specs for necro are amazing (not buying that reaper shroud is a "trade off" it's just a straight buff)

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2019

    @Engal.6359 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    You could maybe call necro the most balanced class, cause these buff-nerfs happen all the time.

    😂 "most balanced" scourge is so good it has been a part of every team in pvp since its release. Every good team in rPvP has a discussion at the beginning of the match where they're like, "focus the necro or were screwed". Every game. It dominates any and every team fight. There shouldn't be only one profession that can fill a role, that runs counter to the game's design. Both elite specs for necro are amazing (not buying that reaper shroud is a "trade off" it's just a straight buff)

    The only reason scourge is this dominant in PvP is because ANet stack boon hate on the necromancer and barely give any to the other professions while at the same time making boons extremly cheap and easy to get. Scourge was Anet's silly answer to the rampant boon meta that plague PvP and WvW. The fact is that it's a lazy answer that do little to balance the game. People are thus warry of the necromancer but also know very well that a necromancer is easy to kill especially, which in itself isn't an issue.

    That said, ANet showed that they are willing to give boon hate tools to other profession (Spellbreaker) and there is historically another profession that also have boon hate tools albeit unexploited by the PvP players (Mesmer).

    NB.: Reaper shroud is a tradeoff in thee sense that this shroud have a higher LF decay than death shroud and a loss of range, justifying higher offensive abilities. Isn't it natural for something that cost more to utimately "do" more? Beside, ANet tend to favor melee damages over range damage due to the "higher" risk involved in taking on a foe in melee range. The only real advantage of reaper shroud is that it's mostly less frustrating to use than death shroud due to it's attack speed yet again this come at the expense of both range and LF sustain, which is a fair trade.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2019

    @Engal.6359 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    You could maybe call necro the most balanced class, cause these buff-nerfs happen all the time.

    😂 "most balanced" scourge is so good it has been a part of every team in pvp since its release. Every good team in rPvP has a discussion at the beginning of the match where they're like, "focus the necro or were screwed". Every game. It dominates any and every team fight. There shouldn't be only one profession that can fill a role, that runs counter to the game's design. Both elite specs for necro are amazing (not buying that reaper shroud is a "trade off" it's just a straight buff)

    Yes. But without. Support you ain't doing anything.
    Also if you look at pve DPS scourge is just bad.

    Focus the necro is the most common strat because noone like their boons gone as well as why would you focus a warrior or soulbeast that can stall for a long time with 100blocks and invulnerabilities.

    If a warrior (spellbreaker) had only a little bit more range/ ranged aoe, noone would be playing scourge for the corrupts anymore.

    Sure scourge has high offensive power in PvP modes, but you have to invest stats for that. You cannot just go bunker and still easily kill enemies with it (like scrapper, or ele can do). Because the sustain necro can get is just way way way worse than any other class can get with the same investment statswise.

    If you cannot see the trade-off you're making by slotting in reaper or scourge, you're a silver player at best I guess?

    Also I didn't see a single qq bout necro in spvp for a few months now.
    So either even the last bad player noticed how to play against necro, or other classes are way way way stronger right now

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