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Damage is just way too high


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I just played a few PvP matches after a long time in PvE and I'm not sure what to think. Once we are in a fight, it ends in like what, 1 or 2 seconds? Simply put, everyone deals too much damage.

There is no place to react, it's just a race of who will burst who the fastest way possible.

Now I know there are some "bunker" builds too but these are the other extreme and isn't healthy neither. (I rarely see those though...)

Why not beeing in the middle? I mean some reasonable fight duration. I can't see how this can be fun to always be "insta killed" without having any time to react.

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Be careful with that. specify exactly who is too high or else we will very quickly return to bunker meta.

Please specify classes that are overperforming and why, so that we dont get blanket reductions and return to what killed ~~GW2 esports. ~~ pvp that time when people were interested.

"The middle" is ideal, yes, but damage output can scale based on how telegraphed/risky it is to deliver.

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@"Edge.8724" said:I just played a few PvP matches after a long time in PvE and I'm not sure what to think. Once we are in a fight, it ends in like what, 1 or 2 seconds? Simply put, everyone deals too much damage.

There is no place to react, it's just a race of who will burst who the fastest way possible.

Now I know there are some "bunker" builds too but these are the other extreme and isn't healthy neither. (I rarely see those though...)

Why not beeing in the middle? I mean some reasonable fight duration. I can't see how this can be fun to always be "insta killed" without having any time to react.

+1' What you allow is what will continue 'j3fYtJv.gif

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@"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:Be careful with that. specify exactly who is too high or else we will very quickly return to bunker meta.

Please specify classes that are overperforming and why, so that we dont get blanket reductions and return to what killed ~~GW2 esports. ~~ pvp that time when people were interested.

"The middle" is ideal, yes, but damage output can scale based on how telegraphed/risky it is to deliver.

I really don't support the bunker meta and honestly hope they won't do that mistake.

Honestly, I can't think of any class that aren't overperforming right now, except maybe elementalist and guardian. In general, everyone can build to insta kill anyone without any real risk to be punished. More precisely, the "time to kill" is too short. At this point, even some professions can be quite tanky and do some ridiculous amount of damage.

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"Safandula.8723" said:I'm first with the following!Just dodge

It's a shame that toxicity like this goes unpunished

It's shame that non of u didn't spot irony in my post."just dodge" is already a meme, and this topic was touched shiton of times. It's obvious that dmg in the game is way to high, and it's not gonna be changed i guess. The magic of pve based game

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@Safandula.8723 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:I'm first with the following!Just dodge

It's a shame that toxicity like this goes unpunished

It's shame that non of u didn't spot irony in my post."just dodge" is already a meme, and this topic was touched shiton of times. It's obvious that dmg in the game is way to high, and it's not gonna be changed i guess. The magic of pve based game

Well the meme is discouraging, shaming, hostile, insulting=Toxic to the well being of all players and viewers alike who read the thread.

( You do not really have to post what others posts just because Toxicity is given full green light to run rampant in the game)

You are better than that Safandula :)

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@Safandula.8723 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:I'm first with the following!Just dodge

It's a shame that toxicity like this goes unpunished

It's shame that non of u didn't spot irony in my post."just dodge" is already a meme, and this topic was touched shiton of times. It's obvious that dmg in the game is way to high, and it's not gonna be changed i guess. The magic of pve based game

I heard your sarcasm, but since tone is difficult to convey in text, a lot of people put "/s" after a sarcastic comment. You might also like to read about "Poe's Law". :)

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@"Edge.8724" said:I just played a few PvP matches after a long time in PvE and I'm not sure what to think.

I spot the problem.

You are coming into a much more challenging game mode from a very easy mode and expect in a few matches to be killing everyone. The fact you are dying in "1 or 2 seconds" is exaggeration or you are standing still and face tanking.

First, builds have a lot to do with PvP, not only do you need to have a good one, but you also need to know how it works and how to use it, and to be good you need to know other classes and their builds and uses, you need to know timing, animations, counter, rotations, map knowledge, porting areas, LOS, etc etc. You can't be critical of people poking at your post as you come in with maybe an hour of PvP play with generic and vague ideas, you don't even point to a class or skill you think is overtuned. When asked you just said "everything", which is not the right or even a good answer.

Find someone who does PvP to help you, fight some rounds with you and give you pointers. What class and build are you playing? Do you have videos or screens of any of this?

There are a few builds that are overtuned for sure, but sweeping statements don't help. Be specific about the class, skills and traits you think need working.

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@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@"Edge.8724" said:I just played
a few
PvP matches after
a long time in PvE
and I'm not sure what to think.

I spot the problem.

You are coming into a much more challenging game mode from a very easy mode and expect in a few matches to be killing everyone. The fact you are dying in "1 or 2 seconds" is exaggeration or you are standing still and face tanking.

First, builds have a lot to do with PvP, not only do you need to have a good one, but you also need to know how it works and how to use it, and to be good you need to know other classes and their builds and uses, you need to know timing, animations, counter, rotations, map knowledge, porting areas, LOS, etc etc. You can't be critical of people poking at your post as you come in with maybe an hour of PvP play with generic and vague ideas, you don't even point to a class or skill you think is overtuned. When asked you just said "everything", which is not the right or even a good answer.

Find someone who does PvP to help you, fight some rounds with you and give you pointers. What class and build are you playing? Do you have videos or screens of any of this?

There are a few builds that are overtuned for sure, but sweeping statements don't help. Be specific about the class, skills and traits you think need working.

I passed the last 3 years almost exclusively in PvP. My time in PvE was a sort of break (but at the same time I needed to catch what I missed.)

Long time, more precisely around 5 months maybe... Things are just really worse than before and this was a big part of why I sort of left PvP before.

Thanks for your advices, though I honestly didn't learn anything :/

I won't dismiss the fact that I don't really have any PvP friends or guilds.

I refuse to believe that the problem is only on my side though... I just have to go back into time and It was a lot more manageable, if not easier. Even when I had less experience.

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@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@"Edge.8724" said:I just played
a few
PvP matches after
a long time in PvE
and I'm not sure what to think.

I spot the problem.

You are coming into a much more challenging game mode from a very easy mode and expect in a few matches to be killing everyone. The fact you are dying in "1 or 2 seconds" is exaggeration or you are standing still and face tanking.

First, builds have a lot to do with PvP, not only do you need to have a good one, but you also need to know how it works and how to use it, and to be good you need to know other classes and their builds and uses, you need to know timing, animations, counter, rotations, map knowledge, porting areas, LOS, etc etc. You can't be critical of people poking at your post as you come in with maybe an hour of PvP play with generic and vague ideas, you don't even point to a class or skill you think is overtuned. When asked you just said "everything", which is not the right or even a good answer.

Find someone who does PvP to help you, fight some rounds with you and give you pointers. What class and build are you playing? Do you have videos or screens of any of this?

There are a few builds that are overtuned for sure, but sweeping statements don't help. Be specific about the class, skills and traits you think need working.

^ Constructive and accurate. PvE is ezpz compared to circlequest.

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@Edge.8724

PvP wise the best advice I can give is:

Build yourself for a role. Conquest is very role dependent and many people aren’t built properly for a role or understand that role when they start out.

Fights are over in seconds when people don’t play around their role or are new enough that their ability to play as say, a bunker, isn’t good enough to perform that role.

  • Example 1: A bruiser runs onto mid with no support.
  • Example 2: A bunker who dies easily to a plus 1.
  • Example 3: A side noder who stays in team fights the whole game.
  • Example 4: A bruiser attempts to decap far and dies without decapping.

There are oneshot builds out there. There are some overperforming builds that are a bit too survivable for the damage that they deal. However most people are not running pure glass.

When you see pure glass your team needs to focus that person first. When they respawn you need to watch out so they don’t gank someone. Glass can swing team fights in either direction.

I realize this isn’t super helpful because you are just one player. If you want advice about a specific profession and how to pvp as or against it the profession forums may be more helpful.

I agree with you that damage is too high. But I would specify certain skill/trait combinations. I don’t play a oneshot build and I’m fairly squishy. I wouldn’t want some general damage reduction to make me unable to secure kills while the former high damage builds chunk everyone’s health bar for “only” 10k instead of 20k in a half second.

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There is no skill within pvp anymore, its a spam fest. Spam AoE cleave with gimmicks and cheesy builds; Those who defend X class only do so because its preforming well in the current environment. And are the first to complain when it is no longer in such a position, People who honestly think this is balanced by any extent are flawed in their judgement. "You are wrong" Sums it up nicely; True balance is hard to achieve but its only because no one has the stones to do the reworks and role backs required to shake the meta.

! Example for such a rollback? Pre-HoT launch mallyx with an additional ranged condition weapon for core. This would mean that he eats condition damage for break-fest and simply becomes a monster to deal with as you apply condition damage to him. Redirecting and more importantly consuming your boons and turning them against you, condition damage would almost be useless against him. Thus his direct counter would be power builds; He wouldn't be trash against them but they would have the advantage of him not getting all his tasty buffs from the conditions that are not present. ( Heralds shield could also use a rework; as it is kind of a crappy rendition of the shield. Guardian and Warriors shield out does it by a wide margin and its hardly ever picked up by anyone who actually wants to have a useful off hand. Nerfing Axe or off hand sword won't fix this.)! Reworking Necromancer utilities (Core) And dagger(main hand) along with some buffs to staff. Bring them to the current status of what we have now so they can stand up against elite specs and not be niche. (No class should be niche.) Balance for this class would be giving it more direct and aggressive ways to deal with opponents and not the more "I will outlast you" Which falls flat on its face in the face of heavy burst.! * Either tone down the damage overall acrossed the board to make battles last longer, or make sure EVERYONE is capable of being useful in this type of environment despite whatever they may be running so they can be more or less inclined to PvP. You see it all the time where people complain that their class is bad, but in reality its not necessarily the class it is the spec they desire to run. You Should not punish a player for wanting to run a specific type of build on a class, Condition/power/support ect you should be and heck even encourage players to branch out in their builds. Squash the meta, and the illusion of one and suddenly alot more doors open to an audience who never knew they had them.

Now I know this doesn't fix everything and Im going based on the classes I enjoy, and think are cool. Granted and by no means do I have enough experience with thief for example to make a post on how to fix it. ( I would suggest maybe making it more like the Assassin from guild wars 1, a brawler who doesn't "Need" stealth?) Ranger I have some Ideas for but all of them feel more "Elite Spec" than they do rework as its more a change rather than an outright fix. (Core ranger is no where near as viable as soulbeast, whom is kind of the Go-To For rangers in competitive play at the moment.) There are glaring issues with specific classes and I feel there are left over issues from Colin Jo"Can'tHandleDifficultGames"Hanson whom wanted to make guild wars are more... accepting safe space. Which is why the tone shift narrative wise, the change of directions with Elite specs and the overhauls we have gotten were accepted and I feel were good. The berserker change? Was needed, to make it so it was not simply a flat buff to warrior so now core warrior, spellbreaker and berserker are all their own thing and can stand on their own two feet. This is an issue that other spec's and class's still have which needs to be addressed before we add more Elite specs/look to new ways to change or "Reinvent" The wheel.

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@Edge.8724 said:

@Edge.8724 said:I just played
a few
PvP matches after
a long time in PvE
and I'm not sure what to think.

I spot the problem.

You are coming into a much more challenging game mode from a very easy mode and expect in a few matches to be killing everyone. The fact you are dying in "1 or 2 seconds" is exaggeration or you are standing still and face tanking.

First, builds have a lot to do with PvP, not only do you need to have a good one, but you also need to know how it works and how to use it, and to be good you need to know other classes and their builds and uses, you need to know timing, animations, counter, rotations, map knowledge, porting areas, LOS, etc etc. You can't be critical of people poking at your post as you come in with maybe an hour of PvP play with generic and vague ideas, you don't even point to a class or skill you think is overtuned. When asked you just said "everything", which is not the right or even a good answer.

Find someone who does PvP to help you, fight some rounds with you and give you pointers. What class and build are you playing? Do you have videos or screens of any of this?

There are a few builds that are overtuned for sure, but sweeping statements don't help. Be specific about the class, skills and traits you think need working.

I passed the last 3 years almost exclusively in PvP. My time in PvE was a sort of break (but at the same time I needed to catch what I missed.)

Long time, more precisely around 5 months maybe... Things are just really worse than before and this was a big part of why I sort of left PvP before.

Thanks for your advices, though I honestly didn't learn anything :/

I won't dismiss the fact that I don't really have any PvP friends or guilds.

I refuse to believe that the problem is only on my side though... I just have to go back into time and It was a lot more manageable, if not easier. Even when I had less experience.

If you have done lots of PvP before then you know that not everything is OP. Also, to get anything fixed, you need to give specific data sets, also if you spent much time in PvP you also know that can come down to a single trait that just has to much synergy with everything else for it's investment. If you feel everything is OP, list them out, what class, the build and traits that are overtuned, only then can we have a discussion, as we need to know what we are taking about first.

This is a problem anet has done in the past, people complain about given builds/classes without a solid understanding of what causes it, and rather than fixing or changing that one trait, they nerf all sorts of things that sure, often times fixes the overtuned build, but then destroys just about any other build options for the class as the nerfs affected far more than that single build.

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If you die in mere seconds it's because you just don't know how to play and stay alive, idk what else to tell you. Whilst damage is really high that's true, sustain is just as high.

Sometimes I get annoyed that a FA ele one shots me from nowhere, but I know that's because I lacked awareness at that time because they don't have much defense so they're not hard to kill.

Just saying that in no way you should die in a couple seconds unless it is your own fault.

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Yeah. I remember this issue when I came back around HoT after the celestial amulet removal to everything just being out of control.

Atleast back then there was counter play and a choice of either doing damage and dieing or doing no damage and dieing very slowly. This burst emta has really killed the pvp community, no one wants a bunker meta but that was literally when the game was at its pvp peak.

I really would like to go back to those times, bunker meta was healthy, the balancing on it wasnt. Instead of buffing damage accross the board it should have never happened at all. Now we have the issue of high damage plus to much screen clutter with no real thought on if something is balanced or not. To instantly obtaining 5+ unique conditions in less then 2 seconds or being bursted down with unnecessary trait the game will never be fixed and its only worse in WvW.

Even worse now that there was a massive layoff so the game wont be getting any better anytime soon.

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@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:This is a problem anet has done in the past, people complain about given builds/classes without a solid understanding of what causes it, and rather than fixing or changing that one trait, they nerf all sorts of things that sure, often times fixes the overtuned build, but then destroys just about any other build options for the class as the nerfs affected far more than that single build.

You're talking about condi-Mirage, right? Because this fits what happened there to a tee. :wink:

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@"Snellibee.2761" said:If you die in mere seconds it's because you just don't know how to play and stay alive, idk what else to tell you. Whilst damage is really high that's true, sustain is just as high.

Sometimes I get annoyed that a FA ele one shots me from nowhere, but I know that's because I lacked awareness at that time because they don't have much defense so they're not hard to kill.

Just saying that in no way you should die in a couple seconds unless it is your own fault.

Sorry, but unless I'm missing something, I sense a bit of contradiction here (italicized bolds). On one hand you're telling OP he has no excuse to die in seconds because "sustain is just as high" as damage. But then you immediately use an example about a squishy build that's "not hard to kill." How do you know OP isn't playing one of those "not hard to kill" builds?

We have pretty much one build that's a viable bunker, and we have a number of builds with one-shot potential. Everything else falls in between and does get one-shot from time to time, and also can't kill the bunker.

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@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@"Snellibee.2761" said:If you die in mere seconds it's because you just don't know how to play and stay alive, idk what else to tell you. Whilst damage is really high that's true,
sustain is just as high
.

Sometimes I get annoyed that a FA ele one shots me from nowhere, but I know that's because I lacked awareness at that time because they don't have much defense so they're
not hard to kill
.

Just saying that in no way you should die in a couple seconds unless it is
your own fault
.

Sorry, but unless I'm missing something, I sense a bit of contradiction here (italicized bolds). On one hand you're telling OP he has no excuse to die in seconds because "sustain is just as high" as damage. But then you immediately use an example about a squishy build that's "not hard to kill." How do you know OP isn't playing one of those "not hard to kill" builds?

We have pretty much one build that's a viable bunker, and we have a number of builds with one-shot potential. Everything else falls in between and does get one-shot from time to time, and also can't kill the bunker.

What I'm getting at is that unless you play a glass cannon and you're meant to die quickly, theres no reason to go down in seconds unless it's your own fault. i don't think it's that hard to understand.

Even FA ele doesn't die instantly by the way, they still have plenty of skills to stay alive.

it's just funny to me that when people build and trait for maximum dps output other people cry that they're doing too much damage. It's like even though they're fully traited and sacrifice all defensive traits and amulets etc, that they should do mediocre damage. I think a lot of people do not know what a game based on builds is supposed to function like. Builds require sacrifice to be good in one thing, if the enemy you're facing is doing high damage to you, you should know that he won't be able to handle pressure himself.

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@"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:Be careful with that. specify exactly who is too high or else we will very quickly return to bunker meta.

Please specify classes that are overperforming and why, so that we dont get blanket reductions and return to what killed ~~GW2 esports. ~~ pvp that time when people were interested.

"The middle" is ideal, yes, but damage output can scale based on how telegraphed/risky it is to deliver.

Like how Firegrab was designed... slow and hard hitting but now its just slow.

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I spend most of my time build crafting. My observation is that we either have very high damage or very high sustain. The is never any middle ground. Guild wars 2 could use a minimum and maximum for damage and healing. Just like gw1. Right now gw2 just continues to scale infinitely. Its why damage and sustain is so high. In addition to that gw2 suffers from over tuned skills.

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