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Class is broken because


SLOTH.5231

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@Atticus.7194 said:

@SLOTH.5231 said:I got ganked and I was fighting several people at once in WvW I'm full bunker scrapper and I get a whisper saying very well played but class is completely broken? I mean I'm not killing people but they aren't killing me easily either so what's the problem and how does that make it broken?

It's broken when you can essentially become unkillable with 6+ people on you. Your barrier application needs to be cut in 1/2, no class is supposed to have so much sustain that essentially nothing but an entire team focused on you with no interruptions has a chance of killing you.

I'm really not exaggerating, your cleanse, barrier, prot and stability uptimes are just way out of control. You guys make bunker guardians back in the day look like glass canons with your sustain.

Yeah... Except you cant actually do anything with that other than to bunker down.

Yesterday we had a funny situation. 1 soulbeast and 1 scrapper vs 1 soulbeast and 1 firebrand. We pounded the soulbeast while the firebrand ran around in full meta zerg heal mode. We downed the soulbeast twice before we could stomp him (first time insta-ressed) despite the firebrand literally running behind him just healing.

Then we started working the fb and... Nothing. We could not bring him down. It was impossible. We tried for minutes before giving up, was just pointless. Of course he couldnt touch us in turn.

As we where moving away, a scourge and something else came and just squashed him.

Thanks teapot, lol.

TL;DR no build is immortal... Because its all about builds. If you cant bring down someone with 6 people, you all got crappy builds for fighting that target.

Even against the absolute worst target imagineable 1v1, if you cant bring them down 25-50% you got outplayed.

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@KrHome.1920 said:

I don't know what an unkillable build has to do with parenting issues. You did not get the point.

Even a bunker should die to a full glass build in an acceptable amount of time (for GW2 standards: somewhat around 30s). Everything else is bad game design since countering bunkers is exactly the purpose of glass cannons.

A bunker scrapper can sustain most glass cannon builds resulting in having no counter.

edit: If staying alive would be useless in this game, we could continue and discuss this point, but it isn't. It's actually pretty important.

Actually it's backwards: bunkers purpose in MMOs are to survive, and that's pretty much it. If we get more specific, tanks are made to survive direct damage, while supports can survive DoTs through healing and CC through utility.Glass cannons roles are usually assassin roles, but they aim for targets of a few criteria: targets that have been previously damaged and are low and escaping, high priority targets like enemy assassins or enemy damage carries (the meta scourge build for example is prone to be targeted by glass cannons), or targets engaged in fights already that will become overwhelmed when you join the fight against them (+1 situations). At the cost of their extremely high burst damage, they should be extremely vulnerable and susceptible to taking high direct damage, hence why they're called glass cannons. Not all glass cannons are assassins, however, some are more of a damage carry kind of glass cannon, where they initiate their burst, and have super high sustained dps until their bursts come back up. But a lot of the time, they are assassins (if they have the proper mobility).a glass cannon's role is NOT to take out bunkers. But, one thing I think is wrong with scrapper, is its access to superspeed while also being able to survive like it does. I don't think it should be able to access superspeed with its survivability. But that's a talk for another day.

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@Prinzsecond.4863 said:

@Atticus.7194 said:It's broken when you can essentially become unkillable with 6+ people on you. Your barrier application needs to be cut in 1/2, no class is supposed to have so much sustain that essentially nothing but an entire team focused on you with no interruptions has a chance of killing you.

I'm really not exaggerating, your cleanse, barrier, prot and stability uptimes are just way out of control. You guys make bunker guardians back in the day look like glass canons with your sustain.

Huh, 2 decent Players can easily destroy me with my 3400 armor, all barrier and heal. However, 4 really bad Players are barely able to do anything, so those 6+ Players must have made something wrong. Maybe all 6 on range while he set up his 5s bubble and run into a Tower? Or was he on superspeed and the 6 were just not fast enough? A thief or mesmer can also escape 6+ ppl.

If your issue is 10k barrier.... with 6 (!) ppl, that barrier should evaporate in 0.5 seconds.

You mean like when a deadeye crits you for 18k 3 times in a row from stealth. And when you reveal them, they remove it and go back into stealth.

So then barrier universally should only last 0.5 seconds? What about the jackal's dismount ability? And the scourge? Almost all of the class is barrier-focused.

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@archmagus.7249 said:

If your issue is 10k barrier.... with 6 (!) ppl, that barrier should evaporate in 0.5 seconds.

You mean like when a deadeye crits you for 18k 3 times in a row from stealth. And when you reveal them, they remove it and go back into stealth.

So then barrier universally should only last 0.5 seconds? What about the jackal's dismount ability? And the scourge? Almost all of the class is barrier-focused.

Nono, barrier mechanic is IMO fine as it is, just wanted to say that 10k barrier is normaly gone instantly when 1 scrapper tries to fight 6 enemies in wvw, so the issue of 1 scrapper surviving against 6 enemies cannot be the barrier.

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@Zawn.9647 said:there are 2 sides of the spectrum... if oneshot builds are broken and unfun to play against, so are these immortal builds that cannot be killed by 1-2 players :)

Sure, both cases are unfun to play against, but I don't see the point why finally revived scrapper should be nerfed. Sure, it's hard to kill him, but let's be honest:1) In pvp your have two options: a) play full tank with Herald Rune/Knight Amulet. In that case you can survive 1v2 easily as well as 1v3 when holding the point. BUT: scrapper can still be easily killed or pushed from the point with CC. The build has only one stunbreak on TB skill, otherwise you should take elixir sacrificing condi clean or cap/decap potential with gyro; b) you could play more bruiser style based on might, but with its good 1v2, 1v1 potential this build can be also easily countered by cc and has far lower survivability than full tank.

2) Second point is... we have firebrand. It's here since the PoF launch (I may be mistaken) and it was the best team support/tank for a long time. So, nobody complained about Firebrand able to tank 3+ people in the right hands, but when poor scrapper finally arrived - noway, it's OP build which should be nerfed. It seems a bit... unfair?

3) It's always a question of skill. I met the good team yesterday and they were easilly countering our scrapper just by bursting him under CC on a central point. So, I assume that it is the point of playing tank - you have no dmg but can help your teammates and hold the line when others will die. Nothing special that 2+ ppl needed for uncoordinated pugs to kill him.

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@Baudrillard.4612 said:

@Zawn.9647 said:there are 2 sides of the spectrum... if oneshot builds are broken and unfun to play against, so are these immortal builds that cannot be killed by 1-2 players :)

Sure, both cases are unfun to play against, but I don't see the point why finally revived scrapper should be nerfed. Sure, it's hard to kill him, but let's be honest:1) In pvp your have two options: a) play full tank with Herald Rune/Knight Amulet. In that case you can survive 1v2 easily as well as 1v3 when holding the point. BUT: scrapper can still be easily killed or pushed from the point with CC. The build has only one stunbreak on TB skill, otherwise you should take elixir sacrificing condi clean or cap/decap potential with gyro; b) you could play more bruiser style based on might, but with its good 1v2, 1v1 potential this build can be also easily countered by cc and has far lower survivability than full tank.

2) Second point is... we have firebrand. It's here since the PoF launch (I may be mistaken) and it was the best team support/tank for a long time. So, nobody complained about Firebrand able to tank 3+ people in the right hands, but when poor scrapper finally arrived - noway, it's OP build which should be nerfed. It seems a bit... unfair?

3) It's always a question of skill. I met the good team yesterday and they were easilly countering our scrapper just by bursting him under CC on a central point. So, I assume that it is the point of playing tank - you have no dmg but can help your teammates and hold the line when others will die. Nothing special that 2+ ppl needed for uncoordinated pugs to kill him.

i think it should be nerfed after they nerf the oneshot builds... that would make it still tank enough since the burst would be lessened :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

@knite.1542 said:I don't think your inability to kill on the bunker scrapper makes it balanced. The fact that a single player can basically contest a point indefinitely against multiple opponents (depending on the classes/skill of course, but must won't output anywhere near enough DPS to kill a scrapper) is probably what they are referring to.

Although, anyone that has to ask why the class is broken, I am sure they are either trolling or there is no convincing them.

I think that people should be bringing much more poison and poison application if they want to kill bunker builds. IMO.

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@Opopanax.1803 said:

@knite.1542 said:I don't think your inability to kill on the bunker scrapper makes it balanced. The fact that a single player can basically contest a point indefinitely against multiple opponents (depending on the classes/skill of course, but must won't output anywhere near enough DPS to kill a scrapper) is probably what they are referring to.

Although, anyone that has to ask why the class is broken, I am sure they are either trolling or there is no convincing them.

I think that people should be bringing much more poison and poison application if they want to kill bunker builds. IMO.

That is good in theory, but the amount of condi clear a scrapper has is extremely high. Not only do they cleanse condis, but a lot of them are traited to convert condis into boons.

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@Zawn.9647 said:there are 2 sides of the spectrum... if oneshot builds are broken and unfun to play against, so are these immortal builds that cannot be killed by 1-2 players :)

Every time I've seen one of these tanky classes, they go down within a couple of fears and a condi bomb. The thing is, from what I've seen, not many characters are packing crowd control nowadays, if you can land just 1 CC on a tank, your teammates have more than enough time to hit them hard. Every time I see them, they go down against 1 or 2 players. Especially if one of those players is a Necro or a Warrior (with stuns)

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@Dirame.8521 said:

@Zawn.9647 said:there are 2 sides of the spectrum... if oneshot builds are broken and unfun to play against, so are these immortal builds that cannot be killed by 1-2 players :)

Every time I've seen one of these tanky classes, they go down within a couple of fears and a condi bomb. The thing is, from what I've seen, not many characters are packing crowd control nowadays, if you can land just 1 CC on a tank, your teammates have more than enough time to hit them hard. Every time I see them, they go down against 1 or 2 players. Especially if one of those players is a Necro or a Warrior (with stuns)

its almost impossible to kill a Scrapper if you play a Holosmith... while Spellbreaker can kill it with timed stuns + quickness and hundred blades - confirmed by multiple streamers including Drazeh for example :/

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@Zawn.9647 said:

@Zawn.9647 said:there are 2 sides of the spectrum... if oneshot builds are broken and unfun to play against, so are these immortal builds that cannot be killed by 1-2 players :)

Every time I've seen one of these tanky classes, they go down within a couple of fears and a condi bomb. The thing is, from what I've seen, not many characters are packing crowd control nowadays, if you can land just 1 CC on a tank, your teammates have more than enough time to hit them hard. Every time I see them, they go down against 1 or 2 players. Especially if one of those players is a Necro or a Warrior (with stuns)

its almost impossible to kill a Scrapper if you play a Holosmith... while Spellbreaker can kill it with timed stuns + quickness and hundred blades - confirmed by multiple streamers including Drazeh for example :/

Depends what Holosmith builds you're playing.... hint hint... :P

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@Zawn.9647 said:

its almost impossible to kill a Scrapper if you play a Holosmith... while Spellbreaker can kill it with timed stuns + quickness and hundred blades - confirmed by multiple streamers including Drazeh for example :/

It's almost impossible with the meta build yes, but there are other Options that are more effective, try out a throw-mine-build and you may be surprised.

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Fun Fact:When I was roaming a few days ago I was claimed running a troll build (condi scrapper with high sustain) when 3 enemies had Trouble killing me. That Claim came from a Warrior! fighting 3 opponens himself later, having similar sustain, and similar mobility (he escaped the 3 easily), so he was basically running the exactly same "troll build" he claimed me to run^^.Although I admit, that scrapper sustain is currently a little bit overperforming, i think some ppl became quite biased towards scrappers.

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@"Prinzsecond.4863" said:Fun Fact:When I was roaming a few days ago I was claimed running a troll build (condi scrapper with high sustain) when 3 enemies had Trouble killing me. That Claim came from a Warrior! fighting 3 opponens himself later, having similar sustain, and similar mobility (he escaped the 3 easily), so he was basically running the exactly same "troll build" he claimed me to run^^.Although I admit, that scrapper sustain is currently a little bit overperforming, i think some ppl became quite biased towards scrappers.Its not really bias toward the scrapper, its just hypocrisy running rampant.

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  • 1 month later...

@Vagrant.7206 said:WvW is a special kind of hell. People believe they are the best at something, but in truth they're usually in a gank squad and can't duel for kitten. If you can survive that, well clearly you're OP. I took on 3 people on a duelist holosmith build in WvW once, came out on top because they didn't know how to play their classes well, and I pulled them in such a way to only face them one at a time.

bro I'm garbage at wvw, and I have over 1000 hours on the game mode

for the op though they are most likely just annoyed with how long it assumingly took to kill you, it gets dull to have to fight someone for 10+ minutes to kill them when they hit like a wet noodle so you'd have to unplug your key board in order to lose to them, though if you are running bunker why are you not with another player so they can make up for your lack of damage?

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