Should Arenanet go back to old dungeons to improve them for the new and old player experience?

[Henry.5713]

Would be interesting to see what they might be able to come up with if they were to complete overhaul them all.

[Rico.6873]

Giving the dungeons a options to be able to explore and do them solo would be a interesting addition

[Robban.1256]

@Rico.6873 said:Giving the dungeons a options to be able to explore and do them solo would be a interesting addition

see my notes above

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I would like to hero/hench the dungeons. I like to take the time and explore, while most other players usually want to rush to the rewards.

[voltaicbore.8012]

@Rico.6873 said:Giving the dungeons a options to be able to explore and do them solo would be a interesting addition

As Robban mentioned in passing earlier, dungeons are mostly soloable if you're up for a challenge. There are a few places that have group mechanics that require more than one person, but for the most part if you can control the combat, you can solo a dungeon.

@kasoki.5180 said:

You do know it is possible to have an opinion on something even though you are aware that due to technical difficulties it will most likely never happen?

Who said it's not possible to have an opinion? Sure, you can have any opinion you want, but there is such a thing as an ill-founded opinion. The opinion I objected to essentially stated that every other mmo can do dungeons without technical tradeoffs, so automatically GW2 should too. That's an opinion, sure, but a logically and objectively poor one, and I believe we have the right to treat it as such.

[Westenev.5289]

Dungeons are probably the first look a player gets into GW2 instanced content. The average player is probably going to be scared of fractals (because of the big intimidating level 80 tag), and seek easier content to wet their feet (if they haven't already gotten bored of exploration and tried some dungeons already). It's also a great place for newbies to meet more seasoned players, to joke around and maybe swap advice or strategies.

Try doing that in your local T1/T2 fractal group. This might be personal experience, but everyone feels so... mechanical...

I don't think Dungeons need to be more challenging, but I do feel they could be expanded upon to help newbies get a feel for the game (and possibly redo/revamp the story while they're at it).

[Shivan.9438]

Dungeons need to be remade on every level.

• Strategy and Mechanics. - Run, run, run, skip trash, stack here, be zerker geared, zerg boss to death, run, run, run, skip trash. Can't zerg the boss down in 5 seconds? Then that content is too hard. Skip that path, do another. - This is not running a dungeon. This is cherry picking bosses. Trash needs to drop loot to make it worth killing them. Bosses need to be able to kill the players, no matter how many there are and what gear set. Dodging was a thing in dungeons for a time.

• Loot - It sucks. Loot sucks in the game to begin with, but if you're trying to run dungeons for money, the time is better spent meta farming. I would say that dungeons offer special loot in the form of skins, but you can get the same skins by farming PvP lobbys. If anything, add new skins, but only obtainable by running the dungeon, no PvP alternative.

• Dungeon themes are outdated. - Orr is done, the Pact won. With Siren's Landing being open, Arah needs a different look. Same with the rest of the dungeons.

• Actual Daily Dungeon. - Make the reward nice so it's worth doing. And not some stupid extra green piece of gear. Give a bag of tokens. 10 at least.

This is just a handful of things that would make dungeons better.

[Robban.1256]

@"Shivan.9438" said:Dungeons need to be remade on every level.

• Strategy and Mechanics. - Run, run, run, skip trash, stack here, be zerker geared, zerg boss to death, run, run, run, skip trash. Can't zerg the boss down in 5 seconds? Then that content is too hard. Skip that path, do another. - This is not running a dungeon. This is cherry picking bosses. Trash needs to drop loot to make it worth killing them. Bosses need to be able to kill the players, no matter how many there are and what gear set. Dodging was a thing in dungeons for a time.

• Loot - It sucks. Loot sucks in the game to begin with, but if you're trying to run dungeons for money, the time is better spent meta farming. I would say that dungeons offer special loot in the form of skins, but you can get the same skins by farming PvP lobbys. If anything, add new skins, but only obtainable by running the dungeon, no PvP alternative.

• Dungeon themes are outdated. - Orr is done, the Pact won. With Siren's Landing being open, Arah needs a different look. Same with the rest of the dungeons.

• Actual Daily Dungeon. - Make the reward nice so it's worth doing. And not some stupid extra green piece of gear. Give a bag of tokens. 10 at least.

This is just a handful of things that would make dungeons better.

Repost, its GP/H (gold per hour) actually isnt bad, quit rant . The spreadsheet hasn't been updated since early 2018, but yeah it can be upwards of 30-50g per hour depending on available recipes and tour speed. Especially for people who don't have recipes, rising ecto and mat prices are good for dungeons. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/443563530860363788/451915847049543682/xn8m74f.png

[Rico.6873]

@voltaicbore.8012 said:

@Rico.6873 said:Giving the dungeons a options to be able to explore and do them solo would be a interesting addition

As Robban mentioned in passing earlier, dungeons are mostly soloable if you're up for a challenge. There are a few places that have group mechanics that require more than one person, but for the most part if you can control the combat, you can solo a dungeon.

@kasoki.5180 said:

You do know it is possible to have an opinion on something even though you are aware that due to technical difficulties it will most likely never happen?

Who said it's not possible to have an opinion? Sure, you can have any opinion you want, but there

is

such a thing as an ill-founded opinion. The opinion I objected to essentially stated that every other mmo can do dungeons without technical tradeoffs, so automatically GW2 should too. That's an opinion, sure, but a logically and objectively poor one, and I believe we have the right to treat it as such.

Yes but do you really wanna do that dungeon more then once if it's challenging?Only thing I could think of is giving a buff to the amount of players doing the dungeon, the more people doing the dungeon the weaker the buff is.

Only way to make the dungeon content avaible to all without messing too much with the dungeons code

[Fenom.9457]

I wouldn’t say no to any kind of change or improvement in the current dungeons but more so I want to see new dungeons. I mean, lets be honest here - they say that team is gone, but fractals are just standalone dungeons without placement on the map. The fractal team could make dungeons

[voltaicbore.8012]

@Rico.6873 said:

Yes but do you really wanna do that dungeon more then once if it's challenging?

I farm the dungeon frequenter achievement, so yes. I solo the same dungeons over and over. The easiest by far is Ascalonian Catacombs story mode, which takes roughly 10 mins to do alone. I've soloed all 4 paths in CM and SE as well, and I find myself solo clearing large portions of them as I wait for LFG to fill.

But yeah, if you're into dungeons for some kind of story experience, replay value is extremely low. Which, I think, only further reinforces the idea that dungeons aren't worth reworking. I'd wager a good amount that most of the players clamoring for dungeon re-works probably aren't the kind of player who farms these sorts of instances efficiently, and just want to clear dungeons as part of their level-appropriate story (or hit a few paths that they've never managed to clear, ever).

[Rico.6873]

@voltaicbore.8012 said:

@Rico.6873 said:

Yes but do you really wanna do that dungeon more then once if it's challenging?

I farm the dungeon frequenter achievement, so yes. I solo the same dungeons over and over. The easiest by far is Ascalonian Catacombs story mode, which takes roughly 10 mins to do alone. I've soloed all 4 paths in CM and SE as well, and I find myself solo clearing large portions of them as I wait for LFG to fill.

But yeah, if you're into dungeons for some kind of story experience, replay value is extremely low. Which, I think, only further reinforces the idea that dungeons aren't worth reworking. I'd wager a good amount that most of the players clamoring for dungeon re-works probably

aren't

the kind of player who farms these sorts of instances efficiently, and just want to clear dungeons as part of their level-appropriate story (or hit a few paths that they've never managed to clear, ever).

The factor is rewardsIf you play a challenging action game, You are moving FORWARD that's a reward in itselfGetting strong loot because you defeated a hard boss is another rewardChallenging content is fine for completing it once but in most games you only have to defeat those hard bosses onceOr they are tied to rare loot you can get only there, then its worth doing it

Still doing content designed for group of 5 is different then doing designed challenging content for a single personI'm still liking the buff idea where the buff is tuned to the amount of people doing the dungeon, If someone leaves the buff gets strongerIf someone enters the buff grows weaker, Changing the mobs/dungeon with how the code is would be too time consumingthe buff idea would work the best, (we do have something similar in Fractals but thats just a boost in stats)

[Thokketh.7594]

Goal:

Make dungeons viable end game content.

• They should still be easier than fractals and raids.
• They should encourage high level character playing with low level characters.
• They should let solo/small groups (1-4) still have endgame activities (solo players and small friend groups exist and should be accounted for)

The Plan:Make dungeons into actually explorable areas

• Merge Paths, make it so its an area you are completing not a single story path you are following. (AC - you would end all the gravelings and let the researcher get on with their work.)
• Add a "participation" bar to give a reason to explore. (2 ways to implement)
• The bar gives reward on "path" boss and resets. Takes about 5-10min of events to fill. Lets people break dungeons into chunks for rewards. (requires lots of/repeating events)

□ OR

• The bar is for "completion". Gives reward at end for doing every event and slaying every enemy. Requires less events but makes the dungeon take a longer chunk of time to get full reward.

  ---

  Make Dungeon rewards better

• Make dungeon armor a unique item rarity. (ascended strength exotic)i. Red border (just cause)ii. Can pick from any core statiii. Soulbound (on use)iv. Ascended strength (for stat values)v. No infusion slotsvi. Not stat swappable

• Give different rewards for characters leveling vs max leveli. A leveling character gets the 70% of level exp.ii. A max level character gets extra gold□ or ascended mats, or stuff to make legendary armor (way less than raids and still weekly capped but at a much lower cap)iii. Personal rewards should not interfere with party rewards (I don’t think it would ever be designed that way but wanted to make sure it was stated)

  ---

  Add unique mechanics (harder to implement)

• Add heroes to dungeonsi. Unlocks after beating main story on the account (so you know all the people)ii. Available heroes dependent on which expansions you have. (destiny's edge for core, Dragon's Watch for expansions)iii. Lets you fill in missing members/roles for parties.iv. Able to change build, gear, and specializations for heroes. (renegade rytlok here we come)

  ---

  What I tried to solve:

  1. Bum rush/skipping
  2. Repeatability
  3. Small groups/solo play (they exist)

These are what I would hope for in changes (unlikely I know)

[Prophet of Flames.2783]

Would rather they just make new dungeons/paths and overal up the rewards.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

The old dungeons are beyond help, but that doesn't stop Anet from making new ones. The raid team should have been put to work doing that instead, since accessible group content is basically nonexistent these days.

[Linken.6345]

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:The old dungeons are beyond help, but that doesn't stop Anet from making new ones. The raid team should have been put to work doing that instead, since accessible group content is basically nonexistent these days.

Fractals says hello

[abram.3081]

I want new dungeons. We have plenty of new maps to use for them.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

Would be awesome but they would require alot of work now with the powercreep so doubt anet will want to put the time into it.

[abram.3081]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:Would be awesome but they would require alot of work now with the powercreep so doubt anet will want to put the time into it.

Not sure about the power creep being a reason for more work since tweaking things like mob health and or defense/attack shouldn't be that hard to begin with. Also, reusing assets from each new map would make it even easier, unless the maps use incompatible code with multi player the instancing?From a modular perspective, it shouldn't be any harder than creating a new fractal.

[Randulf.7614]

Since fractals for me are progressively less what they started out as being, I have no issue with them putting fractals on hold and redoing or doing more, dungeons. Or finishing off the full 25 and then doing dungeons. I think a healthy set of fractals alongside a healthy set of dungeons is something positive to be encouraged.

I don't see the need to drag the old quote from the depths about not doing them when priorities change over the years. Things have been implemented we thought not likely before.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Randulf.7614 said:Since fractals for me are progressively less what they started out as being, I have no issue with them putting fractals on hold and redoing or doing more, dungeons.Fractals are dungeons.

I don't see the need to drag the old quote from the depths about not doing them when priorities change over the years.ANet's recent comments have also said the same thing. The issue isn't priorities. It's that the tools used on modern dungeons (aka Fractals) make it easier to update the modern dungeons (aka Fractals); the tools used on the original dungeons are old and creaky.

Maybe you're asking for ANet to use the new tools to create new non-fractal dungeons?Then the question is: what is it exactly that you want to see in the third generation of dungeons that we don't see now in the second generation?

And at a rate of 2 new fractals per year (faster than the current progress), we're three years out from having 25.

[lare.5129]

may be arah can me more simple, but anyway not big reason to make changes in this perfect content.

[Teratus.2859]

Only main change i'd like to see is the dungeon story modes rebalanced for a solo player experience.

As they are right now the story modes are soloable with a strong build and a certain level of player skill with the hardest being Honor of the Waves from my experience.But considering they tie into the Personal story they should be easier to solo and we know Anet is willing to do this on demand because they already did it with Arah.

[Theriverpriest.9472]

Guild wars 2 Needs More Dungeons/Raids/Fractals and lots more groups content that is repeatable and fun. more structured content. Map metas are nice but don't really encourage interaction.