POLL: Your Preferred Way To Queue Ranked Going Into Season 17? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

POLL: Your Preferred Way To Queue Ranked Going Into Season 17?

Season 16 is coming to an end, and i'm curious to get an unbiased census of what way people prefer to queue for ranked(IE SoloQ, DuoQ, TeamQ) going into Season 17.

This will take options from Guild Wars 2's competitive history, and if there's an option you believe would work that isn't listed, vote "Other - Explain" and then... Explain!

Incase there's any confusion, a split queue would refer to two different ways to play ranked. For example: Solo/TeamQ split would mean you can queue Solo or in a party of 5, but a full party of 5 will never be matched against a team of SoloQ players.

A Merged Queue would be the exact opposite, where different queue styles are matched together in a single game. An example would be DuoQ as it is now, or a team of Solo players being matched against a party of 5 in the case of Solo/TeamQ - Merged.

Another thing to note, is that this poll doesn't take into account locking certain queue methods behind rank. Like was the case with DuoQ being restricted to anyone below Plat2, as that just shouldn't be a thing imho. Either it's there for everyone, or not at all.

Feel free to explain your reasoning, and don't be shy to include your rank. Regardless of what that is, it absolutely matters in this case.

Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

POLL: Your Preferred Way To Queue Ranked Going Into Season 17? 71 votes

SoloQ/TeamQ - Split
36%
Cerioth.7062Faux Play.6104Talek.6795crepuscular.9047Tiale.2430Ziggityzog.7389Raiden The Beast.3016zoopop.5630JTGuevara.9018yanniell.1236shinta.8906Cyric.7813Chung.3420Widmo.3186DoomNexus.5324Ovark.2514DragonFury.6243Megametzler.5729Neil.3825Multicolorhipster.9751 26 votes
SoloQ Only
38%
Stand The Wall.6987Susy.7529Ivantreil.3092Ralkuth.1456Whitworth.7259BadMed.3846Eurantien.4632mrauls.6519Zagerus.8675jcbroe.4329Master Ketsu.4569zombyturtle.5980Emapudapus.1307Falan.1839Taygus.4571Hesione.9412Diviora.9548Miyu.8137Swing.6439bravan.3876 27 votes
SoloQ/TeamQ - Merged
0%
SoloQ/DuoQ - Merged(As it is currently)
9%
witcher.3197Pyroen.2086StarDroid.1038Deax.1572Mr Godlike.6098Chilli.2976Shuriken.6738 7 votes
TeamQ Only
1%
all cheats.3186 1 vote
Merged Queue Only(No SoloQ. IE Season 5; you can only Queue in parties of 2, 3, & 5)
0%
AnyQ - Merged(Parties of any size, just like Unranked)
12%
Trevor Boyer.6524maxwelgm.4315Exedore.6320Impact.2780Euthymias.7984alwswannafly.3428Badcat.7320Gamble.4580Asuran.5469 9 votes
Other: Explain?
1%
sephiroth.4217 1 vote

Comments

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2019
    AnyQ - Merged(Parties of any size, just like Unranked)

    Merged que would keep the population pool tight, that's what we need.

    And in my opinion, the people who refuse to utilize the LFG panel for the merged Ranked que, that's on them. There is no reason why they can't PUG an LFG team comp, in the same exact way that they use it for Dungeons, or Fractals, or Raids, or Map Metas, or even ATs.

    Mainly at this point we have a serious problem with match manipulation in Ranked. I've already recently gone over this in this thread https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76966/pvp-match-manipulation-has-gone-too-far Unfortunately, the only way to really fight back against it, is to 1. prevent f2p accounts for joining ranked at all, and 2. re-enable 5 man ques, so smart players can block rando que throws on their teams.

    The match manipulation has become a much larger problem at this point, than solos vs. 5 man ever was. From what I'm hearing lately, it seems like most players are finally recognizing this.

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭
    SoloQ/TeamQ - Split

    SoloQ/TeamQ Split - Rank 190 - T3 gold

    Time after time again, we see what mixed queues lead to...unbalanced matches. Case in point, I had a brand new player yesterday going against THREE people with Relentless/Ruthless Legend titles. I know for a fact they're upper gold-plat or even higher because there's no way to get those titles unless you're up there. THAT is the stupid system we have. It amazes me that people STILL haven't learned anything from the past.

    I've been around the block, since the inaugural season to know that mixed queues never work, that competitive ladders have to be segregated in order for them to function. Well..not even competitiveness really...just simple fairness. I've supported separate queues for years...still do...still will.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    AnyQ - Merged(Parties of any size, just like Unranked)

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    SoloQ/TeamQ Split - Rank 190 - T3 gold

    Time after time again, we see what mixed queues lead to...unbalanced matches. Case in point, I had a brand new player yesterday going against THREE people with Relentless/Ruthless Legend titles. I know for a fact they're upper gold-plat or even higher because there's no way to get those titles unless you're up there. THAT is the stupid system we have. It amazes me that people STILL haven't learned anything from the past.

    I've been around the block, since the inaugural season to know that mixed queues never work, that competitive ladders have to be segregated in order for them to function. Well..not even competitiveness really...just simple fairness. I've supported separate queues for years...still do...still will.

    The mixed que has nothing to do with it. We're talking low population is what is equating to what you're talking about.

    A split solo only will result in the same thing. 1600s in matches with 1400s or even lower. A 5 man vs. 5 man only que will result in same thing, 1700 teams going against 1450 teams. In fact, splitting the ques would make it worse, because the population would be divided even more than it is now.

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is getting ridiculous. If this keeps up, I'm about to go bonkers. & post a poll of my own. Asking ppl how do you feel about the overwhelming number of stoopid poll's posted in the forum by ppl pushing what is obvious a personal agenda.

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • SoloQ/TeamQ - Split

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    This is getting ridiculous. If this keeps up, I'm about to go bonkers. & post a poll of my own. Asking ppl how do you feel about the overwhelming number of stoopid poll's posted in the forum by ppl pushing what is obvious a personal agenda.

    N-No it's not! Just don't look at my signature!

    Honestly, i'm tempted to make my own poll in response to your poll titled: Remove DuoQ?

    1. Yes
    2. Yes

    Allowing people to consider every unbiased option was clearly where I went wrong with this one.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • Ivantreil.3092Ivantreil.3092 Member ✭✭✭
    SoloQ Only

    Solo Q, but imo, the option of make team queues must go.

    In a Vacuum, a split of Solo Q/Team Q would be the ideal thing to do, but the PvP population of this game can't afford said luxury, it would lead to ridiculous time waitings for the team q's.

    This community has expresed very well with the pass of the time how fighting against a team feels unfair as a solo player who can only do so much with their skills against coordinated communication.

    Evem if it was only somwthing psychological, the perception is clear, and unless Anet starts to take care of this game mode, this is the best thing they can leave for us who still are passionate of this gamemode.

    Solo Q only, cheers

  • Multicolorhipster.9751Multicolorhipster.9751 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2019
    SoloQ/TeamQ - Split

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Merged que would keep the population pool tight, that's what we need.

    Mainly at this point we have a serious problem with match manipulation in Ranked. I've already recently gone over this in this thread https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76966/pvp-match-manipulation-has-gone-too-far Unfortunately, the only way to really fight back against it, is to 1. prevent f2p accounts for joining ranked at all, and 2. re-enable 5 man ques, so smart players can block rando que throws on their teams.

    The match manipulation has become a much larger problem at this point, than solos vs. 5 man ever was. From what I'm hearing lately, it seems like most players are finally recognizing this.

    I respect the reasoning because you're right to say MM is all over, and to say a bigger problem now perhaps more than ever.

    But when it comes to tightening the pool, that only makes it easier for sellers to get paired with buyers by process of elimination.

    Let's say you plan a dastardly plot to wintrade with some theoretical seller. For this to work, they need to be on the opposite team; that means not on your team. So you DuoQ up with some other random person to restrict the odds of the seller being on your team by 2/5, and at the same time boost two players instead of one. In the context of any sort of merged queue, the more players you allow to stack onto a single team; the more likely all wintrading parties get what they want.

    In SoloQ only, wintrading is still possible, yet so much harder, and that I think is the reason it's so much more prevalent now.

    In TeamQ only, there would be absolutely 0 wintrading, as the setup is far too difficult.

    In split TeamQ/SoloQ Wintrading might exist within SoloQ, but not in TeamQ. If the leaderboards were split, and perhaps new titles given for TeamQ and SoloQ, then the actual virtual or real monetary value for SoloQ titles would be next to nothing, and again it's much harder for the seller and buyer to even be matched in that context; which hurts wintrading, and ultimately favors people who'd really just like to play ranked without dealing with any player-created outside factors.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2019
    SoloQ/TeamQ - Split

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    SoloQ/TeamQ Split - Rank 190 - T3 gold

    Time after time again, we see what mixed queues lead to...unbalanced matches. Case in point, I had a brand new player yesterday going against THREE people with Relentless/Ruthless Legend titles. I know for a fact they're upper gold-plat or even higher because there's no way to get those titles unless you're up there. THAT is the stupid system we have. It amazes me that people STILL haven't learned anything from the past.

    I've been around the block, since the inaugural season to know that mixed queues never work, that competitive ladders have to be segregated in order for them to function. Well..not even competitiveness really...just simple fairness. I've supported separate queues for years...still do...still will.

    The mixed que has nothing to do with it. We're talking low population is what is equating to what you're talking about.

    A split solo only will result in the same thing. 1600s in matches with 1400s or even lower. A 5 man vs. 5 man only que will result in same thing, 1700 teams going against 1450 teams. In fact, splitting the ques would make it worse, because the population would be divided even more than it is now.

    Yes, unbalanced matches could happen with separate queues, but that doesn't take away the fact that players have FULL CONTROL. Teams would have the power to eliminate randos entirely, not merely block them off. Plus merged queues would allow teams to stomp soloers like what has already happened in the first and second ranked seasons.

    As far as match manipulation goes, well...it's a symptom of the problem, not its cause. The problem is the pvp system. Players didn't just get up one day and decided to cheat, there's a system in place that allows them to do that. ANet, through either neglect or lack of resources looks the other way and it continues. I mean, back in the days of separate queues, match manipulation shenanigans were pretty much unheard of.

  • Euthymias.7984Euthymias.7984 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2019
    AnyQ - Merged(Parties of any size, just like Unranked)

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Merged que would keep the population pool tight, that's what we need.

    And in my opinion, the people who refuse to utilize the LFG panel for the merged Ranked que, that's on them. There is no reason why they can't PUG an LFG team comp, in the same exact way that they use it for Dungeons, or Fractals, or Raids, or Map Metas, or even ATs.

    I agree with this. The population is already small and struggling, so splitting will only hurt more than help. At the same time, SoloQ can be pretty rough since no one has any control of who they get (or how good/bad the quality of the players they're paired with are). That feeds into the population problem, which creates imbalanced games because there arent enough people of a certain rating to compete/pair with/against. Though I dont DuoQ/TeamQ myself, I'd rather the option remain for people to do so if they see fit to.

    There's NOTHING stopping anyone from picking up a partner or trying to form a team beyond some innate stubbornness towards the idea of finding such people to work with. You can play as you want (as I do, without a partner/team) but one must realize that it has its own disadvantage that you have to swallow too for picking that route. It might be more productive in the long run to try tipping the scales in one's favor with such control over who they're with, instead of hoping you dont end up with the bigger potatoes on your team, because even some duos cant carry their weight.

    I'd really rather keep the option to work with others or play solo from the same overall pool than just subject everyone to solo play and see who gets the luck of the draw.

    (Edit: There's an argument to be had about just teaming for Unranked/ATs, but Unranked doesnt have the same particular userbase as Ranked (many trying/testing builds or learning the game or just playing casually in general) and ATs are only every X hours. Swiss could fix that, but my POV is without that in mind right now....not till we see it implemented and what sort of reward structure may come with it.)

  • Miyu.8137Miyu.8137 Member ✭✭
    SoloQ Only

    SoloQ is the only way how to keep the seasons somehow competitive. Merging solo and team queue would be one big mess as there are simply not enough players to keep the matches balanced. A ranking for single players in merged queue would kinda lost it sence.

  • Twilight Tempest.7584Twilight Tempest.7584 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2019

    Could we have AnyQ - merged, but also SoloQ-only?

    There would be a preference option similar to the game mode option (Conquest, Stronghold, or any) for when queuing alone. But instead it would be a preference for SoloQ-only, or both SoloQ and AnyQ. No option to specifically prefer AnyQ though.

    Even if "both" is selected, most of the time solos will end up in SoloQ-only, due to probability. They'd only end up in AnyQ if a fifth is needed and their MMR matches. This might help deter match manipulation, while keeping maximum options open? Satisfying all preferences as it were.

    If there's a problem, have pure SoloQ and pure TeamQ limited to parties of 2, 3, or 5.

    Edit: As for the low population issue, could we unite the entire PvP playerbase by doing away with separate Unranked and Ranked queues? Between seasons, we simply wouldn't get rank. Maybe the pips could be permanent, both on and off season to help encourage people to play. Or it could be limited to seasons. For testing and practice there's still custom arenas, guild halls, and Heart of the Mists, or simply the off-season.

  • Multicolorhipster.9751Multicolorhipster.9751 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2019
    SoloQ/TeamQ - Split

    @Euthymias.7984 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Merged que would keep the population pool tight, that's what we need.

    And in my opinion, the people who refuse to utilize the LFG panel for the merged Ranked que, that's on them. There is no reason why they can't PUG an LFG team comp, in the same exact way that they use it for Dungeons, or Fractals, or Raids, or Map Metas, or even ATs.

    I agree with this. The population is already small and struggling, so splitting will only hurt more than help. At the same time, SoloQ can be pretty rough since no one has any control of who they get (or how good/bad the quality of the players they're paired with are). That feeds into the population problem, which creates imbalanced games because there arent enough people of a certain rating to compete/pair with/against. Though I dont DuoQ/TeamQ myself, I'd rather the option remain for people to do so if they see fit to.

    There's NOTHING stopping anyone from picking up a partner or trying to form a team beyond some innate stubbornness towards the idea of finding such people to work with. You can play as you want (as I do, without a partner/team) but one must realize that it has its own disadvantage that you have to swallow too for picking that route. It might be more productive in the long run to try tipping the scales in one's favor with such control over who they're with, instead of hoping you dont end up with the bigger potatoes on your team, because even some duos cant carry their weight.

    I think there's a big hurdle for those people you mentioned there actually, and that's Gw2 Ranked in general. It's not exactly easy to get a friend invested into playing ranked with you, and that makes the whole process of using LFG to find a party for ranked seem purely like stacking for a numbers advantage...or farming... or both. I mean, you'll likely want someone as good as you or better, and with the population so small; that's becomes harder and harder the lower in rank you get.

    I'd say it's worst for players G1-P1, which; i'd also argue contains the majority of players still playing ranked. There's so few people playing at any given time, that these players are often blended with P2's, 3's, and even legends just to compensate for the terrible rank imbalance that what is essentially premades create within such a small population.

    I mean, sure; you can appeal to the very top 1% of players who have the luxury of being able to queue with essentially anyone they please, but the population problem becomes a little self-perpetuating at this point, as any potentially new players, as well as some old; are likely way turned off at the idea of fighting with or against 2, 3, 4, or even 5 stacked top players.

    You could just as easily split Solo and Team queues and get essentially the same result and keep both parties happy. In the end it's just two different ways to play the same Arena, and if the leaderboards were split; there would be reason to invest time into both.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2019
    SoloQ Only

    ppl are voting for anyQ merged lol?
    yeah instead of just duos, lets allow full teams to stomp soloQ'ers as well... big lol... that is how it was back in the day and why it was changed to soloQ/duo only.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    AnyQ - Merged(Parties of any size, just like Unranked)

    @Ivantreil.3092 said:
    Solo Q, but imo, the option of make team queues must go.

    In a Vacuum, a split of Solo Q/Team Q would be the ideal thing to do, but the PvP population of this game can't afford said luxury, it would lead to ridiculous time waitings for the team q's.

    This community has expresed very well with the pass of the time how fighting against a team feels unfair as a solo player who can only do so much with their skills against coordinated communication.

    Evem if it was only somwthing psychological, the perception is clear, and unless Anet starts to take care of this game mode, this is the best thing they can leave for us who still are passionate of this gamemode.

    Solo Q only, cheers

    ^ This is the opinion of someone who is unable to recognize how much bonkers nutz match manipulation is going on in Ranked nowadays. Refer to my first post at the top of this thread, click the link that is posted, and read my comment therein so you can better understand why our match making is so off in Ranked. I'm not being insulting here, I'm being serious. Please the click and read it.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2019
    AnyQ - Merged(Parties of any size, just like Unranked)

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Merged que would keep the population pool tight, that's what we need.

    Mainly at this point we have a serious problem with match manipulation in Ranked. I've already recently gone over this in this thread https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76966/pvp-match-manipulation-has-gone-too-far Unfortunately, the only way to really fight back against it, is to 1. prevent f2p accounts for joining ranked at all, and 2. re-enable 5 man ques, so smart players can block rando que throws on their teams.

    The match manipulation has become a much larger problem at this point, than solos vs. 5 man ever was. From what I'm hearing lately, it seems like most players are finally recognizing this.

    I respect the reasoning because you're right to say MM is all over, and to say a bigger problem now perhaps more than ever.

    But when it comes to tightening the pool, that only makes it easier for sellers to get paired with buyers by process of elimination.

    Let's say you plan a dastardly plot to wintrade with some theoretical seller. For this to work, they need to be on the opposite team; that means not on your team. So you DuoQ up with some other random person to restrict the odds of the seller being on your team by 2/5, and at the same time boost two players instead of one. In the context of any sort of merged queue, the more players you allow to stack onto a single team; the more likely all wintrading parties get what they want.

    In SoloQ only, wintrading is still possible, yet so much harder, and that I think is the reason it's so much more prevalent now.

    In TeamQ only, there would be absolutely 0 wintrading, as the setup is far too difficult.

    In split TeamQ/SoloQ Wintrading might exist within SoloQ, but not in TeamQ. If the leaderboards were split, and perhaps new titles given for TeamQ and SoloQ, then the actual virtual or real monetary value for SoloQ titles would be next to nothing, and again it's much harder for the seller and buyer to even be matched in that context; which hurts wintrading, and ultimately favors people who'd really just like to play ranked without dealing with any player-created outside factors.

    You do bring up a good point that I had not yet addressed.

    To me, my opinion on this lies that: We aren't going to eliminate win trading and general non-TOS breaking match manipulations. It is going to exist in some form whether it is solo only, solo/duo only, 5 man vs. 5 man only, or mixed que. The reason why I so strongly press the idea of returning 5 man que to Ranked and leaving it mixed que, is because at least with that system, we have the option to block win trades from effecting us. With the way it is now, you cannot stop it from happening. So You may have a couple of teams buying/selling the process, and having one of those teams hitting 1900 values, but you know what? They won't be effecting my matches or anyone else's, who are smart enough to play in a 5 man team themselves.

    Essentially what we are choosing between is this:

    1. Keep solo/duo only, where we cannot block win trading or general match manipulations from effecting us. We will always have at least 3 PUGs joining our team, which means chances are high for encountering shenanigans. Roughly 1/4th of our matches will be effected by this. Sometimes on a bad day when we log in at the wrong time, the ratio is even higher than that. You know, those days where you can tell something feels off, and it would probably be a good idea to stop que.
    2. Split into Solo Ranked and Team Ranked. The problem here is that this would further divide population, making the margins of difference between player ratings even larger than it is now. Solo Only will still be seeing 1700s with and against 1400s, and Team Only would still be seeing 1700 teams against 1400 teams. And the match manipulations would still be exactly the same as they are now, for Solo Only. For Team Only, what you described in your response would also be happening, but at least the teams participating who weren't the seller, could actually block themselves from being effected by it.
    3. Enable 3, 4 and 5 man ques in Ranked as a mixed que. This would at least keep the population from dividing any further than it already is. Sure, solo, duo, trio, quad, will all still have chances of being effected by throwing, but players who are wise enough to play in a 5 man group will not be. In my opinion it is not hard to use the LFG tool to form a basically functional 5 man comp for Ranked Que, in the same exact way that WE ALL use it for Dungeons, Fractals, Raids, Meta Trains, and even ATs. What in the hell makes Ranked any different? Why don't we just go ahead and make Fractals a random Solo Only que? Why don't we try it with Raids? I'm not sayin that to poke at you, I'm being serious. Why should Ranked be treated differently? It's a good question that everyone ought to be thinking about.

    My ultimate point is that this solo/duo only thing, is a placebo effect. It has given the more anti-social casual player base this illusion of comfort, that they no longer have to go against 5 man teams in a discord. The placebo effect works on them because they are too inexperienced to see how much match manipulation is going on around them over the course of a day of playing 10 games or so. These are players who just brush it off as "Well the match maker is bad in this game but gg, I'm happy because this is more fair now." But in reality, they are getting beaten because people are throwing on their teams, they are going against plat 3 players who are smurfing in on 1400s, and they are still going against 5 man teams or sometimes 5+ man teams, who are all still in a discord together, but they just aren't visually all on the same team together... <- This is really important for everyone to recognize and understand. We are still going against 5 man teams in solo/duo only at times. But rather than it being a 5 man qued team within a legitimate system designed for a strong to team to win legitimately, it is in the form of 2 players in a duo on their mains, synch queing with 3 or 4 or more of their buddies who are currently on alts, who are ready to throw for them or DC in a game to block their rating loss. We are still against 5 man teams boys, we just can't see them, John Cena style.

    So what do we want here? Do we want to at least be able to see the 5 man teams we are against? Do we want to at least have the liberty of playing in a 5 man ourselves, so that we can block ourselves from the effects of win trading? Or do we want to continue playing in the placebo effect where we will be match manipulated, where we have no liberty to 5 man ourselves to block the effects of throwing, and where we are unable to see when we are against 5+ man teams? I dunno it's up to all of you to decide. All I know is that I would much rather have the liberty of forming a 5 man team myself to block the effects of match manipulation, and I would much rather lose to a 5 man team that I could see in front of me, who beat me fairly and squarely without cheating.

    I would like to see my suggest 3 come into implementation. I wouldn't be opposed to 2, but option 1 has to go. Solo/Duo only has failed hard. It brought us nothing but susceptibility to match manipulations, loss of ability to play with friends, and overall garbage dumpster fire match making.

  • Faux Play.6104Faux Play.6104 Member ✭✭✭
    SoloQ/TeamQ - Split

    I'd make the following changes:
    1. ATs every 2 hours. Results count towards rating -- see item 2/3 for why.
    2. Solo queue only for ranked.
    3. Rating difference between teammates capped at 2 tiers below plat. Above plat it is tier division. So if you are plat 1 you are only playing against either plat1/gold3 or plat1/plat2. If you are gold 3 you are either queuing with gold1 to gold3 or gold3/plat 1. --the intent is to force plat 2+ players into very high queue times so they play ATs for rating. This will greatly minimize the affect of match manipulation.
    4. Soft reset only lowers you to the bottom of the tier you are in. -- this avoids putting alts in divisions they don't' belong in throughout the season. Nothing more frustrating being against a duo of relentless legends with a gold rating.

  • Faux Play.6104Faux Play.6104 Member ✭✭✭
    SoloQ/TeamQ - Split

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Merged que would keep the population pool tight, that's what we need.

    And in my opinion, the people who refuse to utilize the LFG panel for the merged Ranked que, that's on them. There is no reason why they can't PUG an LFG team comp, in the same exact way that they use it for Dungeons, or Fractals, or Raids, or Map Metas, or even ATs.

    Mainly at this point we have a serious problem with match manipulation in Ranked. I've already recently gone over this in this thread https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76966/pvp-match-manipulation-has-gone-too-far Unfortunately, the only way to really fight back against it, is to 1. prevent f2p accounts for joining ranked at all, and 2. re-enable 5 man ques, so smart players can block rando que throws on their teams.

    The match manipulation has become a much larger problem at this point, than solos vs. 5 man ever was. From what I'm hearing lately, it seems like most players are finally recognizing this.

    Disagree. more frequent ATs and counting AT results for ranked would fix the problem in a more healthy way. Most people don't want to waste time finding people to play with that is why they play this game mode. Teams should only be for serious players. People that just want to queue for an hour an a half to chill shouldn't be forced to find people to play with. that will kill the player base.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    SoloQ/TeamQ - Split

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    (...)

    So take the fairness out of the whole system, because some people abuse it. Yeah. Seems legit. Match manipulation is a thing, but it is not the worst thing that happened to PVP. There are other solutions to this (get rid of AP, titles for finished divisions, actually ban wintraders).

    They simply have to work on swiss tournaments for teams. It is utter nonsense you have to wait for three hours for potentially a single game in an organised team. Tournamentss for teams, ranked for solo. This way both sides would be happy.

    This would mean they had to put in some work. So I guess we will be left with this suboptimal system.

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2019
    SoloQ/TeamQ - Split

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Merged que would keep the population pool tight, that's what we need.

    Mainly at this point we have a serious problem with match manipulation in Ranked. I've already recently gone over this in this thread https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76966/pvp-match-manipulation-has-gone-too-far Unfortunately, the only way to really fight back against it, is to 1. prevent f2p accounts for joining ranked at all, and 2. re-enable 5 man ques, so smart players can block rando que throws on their teams.

    The match manipulation has become a much larger problem at this point, than solos vs. 5 man ever was. From what I'm hearing lately, it seems like most players are finally recognizing this.

    I respect the reasoning because you're right to say MM is all over, and to say a bigger problem now perhaps more than ever.

    But when it comes to tightening the pool, that only makes it easier for sellers to get paired with buyers by process of elimination.

    Let's say you plan a dastardly plot to wintrade with some theoretical seller. For this to work, they need to be on the opposite team; that means not on your team. So you DuoQ up with some other random person to restrict the odds of the seller being on your team by 2/5, and at the same time boost two players instead of one. In the context of any sort of merged queue, the more players you allow to stack onto a single team; the more likely all wintrading parties get what they want.

    In SoloQ only, wintrading is still possible, yet so much harder, and that I think is the reason it's so much more prevalent now.

    In TeamQ only, there would be absolutely 0 wintrading, as the setup is far too difficult.

    In split TeamQ/SoloQ Wintrading might exist within SoloQ, but not in TeamQ. If the leaderboards were split, and perhaps new titles given for TeamQ and SoloQ, then the actual virtual or real monetary value for SoloQ titles would be next to nothing, and again it's much harder for the seller and buyer to even be matched in that context; which hurts wintrading, and ultimately favors people who'd really just like to play ranked without dealing with any player-created outside factors.

    You do bring up a good point that I had not yet addressed.

    To me, my opinion on this lies that: We aren't going to eliminate win trading and general non-TOS breaking match manipulations. It is going to exist in some form whether it is solo only, solo/duo only, 5 man vs. 5 man only, or mixed que. The reason why I so strongly press the idea of returning 5 man que to Ranked and leaving it mixed que, is because at least with that system, we have the option to block win trades from effecting us. With the way it is now, you cannot stop it from happening. So You may have a couple of teams buying/selling the process, and having one of those teams hitting 1900 values, but you know what? They won't be effecting my matches or anyone else's, who are smart enough to play in a 5 man team themselves.

    Essentially what we are choosing between is this:

    1. Keep solo/duo only, where we cannot block win trading or general match manipulations from effecting us. We will always have at least 3 PUGs joining our team, which means chances are high for encountering shenanigans. Roughly 1/4th of our matches will be effected by this. Sometimes on a bad day when we log in at the wrong time, the ratio is even higher than that. You know, those days where you can tell something feels off, and it would probably be a good idea to stop que.
    2. Split into Solo Ranked and Team Ranked. The problem here is that this would further divide population, making the margins of difference between player ratings even larger than it is now. Solo Only will still be seeing 1700s with and against 1400s, and Team Only would still be seeing 1700 teams against 1400 teams. And the match manipulations would still be exactly the same as they are now, for Solo Only. For Team Only, what you described in your response would also be happening, but at least the teams participating who weren't the seller, could actually block themselves from being effected by it.
    3. Enable 3, 4 and 5 man ques in Ranked as a mixed que. This would at least keep the population from dividing any further than it already is. Sure, solo, duo, trio, quad, will all still have chances of being effected by throwing, but players who are wise enough to play in a 5 man group will not be. In my opinion it is not hard to use the LFG tool to form a basically functional 5 man comp for Ranked Que, in the same exact way that WE ALL use it for Dungeons, Fractals, Raids, Meta Trains, and even ATs. What in the hell makes Ranked any different? Why don't we just go ahead and make Fractals a random Solo Only que? Why don't we try it with Raids? I'm not sayin that to poke at you, I'm being serious. Why should Ranked be treated differently? It's a good question that everyone ought to be thinking about.

    My ultimate point is that this solo/duo only thing, is a placebo effect. It has given the more anti-social casual player base this illusion of comfort, that they no longer have to go against 5 man teams in a discord. The placebo effect works on them because they are too inexperienced to see how much match manipulation is going on around them over the course of a day of playing 10 games or so. These are players who just brush it off as "Well the match maker is bad in this game but gg, I'm happy because this is more fair now." But in reality, they are getting beaten because people are throwing on their teams, they are going against plat 3 players who are smurfing in on 1400s, and they are still going against 5 man teams or sometimes 5+ man teams, who are all still in a discord together, but they just aren't visually all on the same team together... <- This is really important for everyone to recognize and understand. We are still going against 5 man teams in solo/duo only at times. But rather than it being a 5 man qued team within a legitimate system designed for a strong to team to win legitimately, it is in the form of 2 players in a duo on their mains, synch queing with 3 or 4 or more of their buddies who are currently on alts, who are ready to throw for them or DC in a game to block their rating loss. We are still against 5 man teams boys, we just can't see them, John Cena style.

    So what do we want here? Do we want to at least be able to see the 5 man teams we are against? Do we want to at least have the liberty of playing in a 5 man ourselves, so that we can block ourselves from the effects of win trading? Or do we want to continue playing in the placebo effect where we will be match manipulated, where we have no liberty to 5 man ourselves to block the effects of throwing, and where we are unable to see when we are against 5+ man teams? I dunno it's up to all of you to decide. All I know is that I would much rather have the liberty of forming a 5 man team myself to block the effects of match manipulation, and I would much rather lose to a 5 man team that I could see in front of me, who beat me fairly and squarely without cheating.

    I would like to see my suggest 3 come into implementation. I wouldn't be opposed to 2, but option 1 has to go. Solo/Duo only has failed hard. It brought us nothing but susceptibility to match manipulations, loss of ability to play with friends, and overall garbage dumpster fire match making.

    I agree with you that this solo/duo nonsense needs to end.
    Still, a mixed queue is too unbalanced and will just allow for stomps as in the past! Not to mention, perpetuate the match manipulations and smurfs. This has happened since season 1.

    And again, you merely want to 'block' the wintraders, I want them GONE. ENTIRELY. ONLY a separate solo/team queue can do that. In a 5-only queue, that is near impossible to pull off.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    AnyQ - Merged(Parties of any size, just like Unranked)

    @JTGuevara.9018 I would absolutely LOVE to see the complete disappearance of win trading and other forms of more casual match manipulation, but it just isn't going to happen for several reason I'm not going to get into right now ^^ If Arenanet hasn't narrowed down how to do it by year 7, we can expect that this is how the game is, and that's how it's always going to be, unfortunately.

    The best we can hope for is reinstating the original liberty of being able to block ourselves from the effects of match manipulation, and that is simply choosing to play in 5 man teams.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2019
    SoloQ Only

    as some others have said, change the AT schedule. here is my version:
    1 conquest AT at every hour for 2 hours, then on the 3rd hour do a 3v3, then 30 minutes after a 9v9 (teams of up to 3 allowed, or soloQ - could be any number from 5-10 really) of murderball in courtyard. change rewards accordingly. maybe once a week do a full day of 3v3s and 9v9s.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2019
    Other: Explain?

    Merged queues for team and solo.
    Let us scrubs play together for fun again.

    Solo only from 1600/1700+ for those who want to play for positions.

    This should cater to players like myself that want to play a team game with friends while also catering to those who care about rank.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • SoloQ/TeamQ - Split

    @Faux Play.6104 said:
    Disagree. more frequent ATs and counting AT results for ranked would fix the problem in a more healthy way. Most people don't want to waste time finding people to play with that is why they play this game mode. Teams should only be for serious players. People that just want to queue for an hour an a half to chill shouldn't be forced to find people to play with. that will kill the player base.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    as some others have said, change the AT schedule. here is my version:
    1 conquest AT at every hour for 2 hours, then on the 3rd hour do a 3v3, then 30 minutes after a 9v9 (teams of up to 3 allowed, or soloQ - could be any number from 5-10 really) of murderball in courtyard. change rewards accordingly. maybe once a week do a full day of 3v3s and 9v9s.

    Honestly, yeah. No matter if the ranked queues change or not, ATs should be made more frequent and more diverse. Especially if ranked goes back to being SoloQ only. There's going to be someone who complains that they just want to play with friends, so giving them more ways to do that competitively will help shut out the age-old excuse. 2v2, 3v3, 9v9, all sound good to me.

    Dunno why 2v2 came and went like it did to begin with. It was really fun and accessible for the majority of people.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • SoloQ/TeamQ - Split

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Essentially what we are choosing between is this:

    1. Keep solo/duo only, where we cannot block win trading or general match manipulations from effecting us. We will always have at least 3 PUGs joining our team, which means chances are high for encountering shenanigans. Roughly 1/4th of our matches will be effected by this. Sometimes on a bad day when we log in at the wrong time, the ratio is even higher than that. You know, those days where you can tell something feels off, and it would probably be a good idea to stop que.
    2. Split into Solo Ranked and Team Ranked. The problem here is that this would further divide population, making the margins of difference between player ratings even larger than it is now. Solo Only will still be seeing 1700s with and against 1400s, and Team Only would still be seeing 1700 teams against 1400 teams. And the match manipulations would still be exactly the same as they are now, for Solo Only. For Team Only, what you described in your response would also be happening, but at least the teams participating who weren't the seller, could actually block themselves from being effected by it.
    3. Enable 3, 4 and 5 man ques in Ranked as a mixed que. This would at least keep the population from dividing any further than it already is. Sure, solo, duo, trio, quad, will all still have chances of being effected by throwing, but players who are wise enough to play in a 5 man group will not be. In my opinion it is not hard to use the LFG tool to form a basically functional 5 man comp for Ranked Que, in the same exact way that WE ALL use it for Dungeons, Fractals, Raids, Meta Trains, and even ATs. What in the hell makes Ranked any different? Why don't we just go ahead and make Fractals a random Solo Only que? Why don't we try it with Raids? I'm not sayin that to poke at you, I'm being serious. Why should Ranked be treated differently? It's a good question that everyone ought to be thinking about.

    Absolutely agree that option 1 is out of the question here. At least in my opinion.

    As for option 3, i'm not sure if i'd prefer to that to DuoQ. I'm all for giving people more ways to play together, but there's the increased wintrading to consider, as well as alienating pretty much any future new players, and old players who'd prefer to SoloQ and be matched with other SoloQ players. Really you could split the queues and people would still probably use LFG for Ranked TeamQ. I'd say the main reason people don't use it now compared to things like Dungeons, Fractals, Raids, and Meta trains is for two reason.
    1. Those are all PvE content where people are expected to know how to things as fast and/or accurately as possible, sort of like a farm. Ranked PvP is a competitive gamemode where the priority should be just playing to your best, learning your class. It's unpredictable, and that I think is the handle. A lot of people prefer to keep it that way rather than using LFG to find others of optimal rating to create a numbers advantage and just roll over the majority of uncoordinated players. TL;DR Ranked PvP shouldn't be a farm.
    2. Just queue size. Queue size definitely matters here. People are more likely to use LFG to fill when they have to fill more than a single slot and I think that's why people use it more for ATs than ranked as it is now.

    I'd still pick option 2 over 3 & 1 because like I say; there'd be incentive to play both as it's still the same arena, just split into two different queue methods. The average player isn't always going to have 5 friends to queue with, and the ones using LFG to stack purely for a numbers advantage will be very likely to find people doing the same thing. For the players that wouldn't want to bother with that; they can SoloQ, and be matched more reasonably with teams of the same average ranking than they would if there were parties of 2, 3, 4, or 5 people injected into the teeny-tiny population we have, while also being assured they aren't secretly getting matched against a 5 stack. There's really no reason to trip over placebo or not in such a case.

    Sure, there'd still be wintrading in SoloQ, but being that it's more difficult to do so in such an environment, and there's always the chance they could split the leaderboards as well; decreasing the actual worth of SoloQ titles. Under these conditions, wintraders would start to see diminishing returns.

    I also think they should just be straight up banned for months at a time or even permanently. That would probably discourage it as well. 72 hours isn't near enough, not even to decay.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭
    SoloQ Only

    Solo q only. Rest all is helping with match manipulation. End duo queue.

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2019
    AnyQ - Merged(Parties of any size, just like Unranked)

    The only realistic options are solo queue and team queue of any size.

    About a year after initial release, we had both a solo queue and a team queue. Solo queue was popular at first, but then dropped like a rock due to two main factors: 1) "me first" gameplay, which included toxic players 2) the winner was usually determined by which team had the fewest clueless players. Team queue was a far better environment, as players actually tried to work together. Many players who valued the team aspect, but were queuing solo switched to team queue. Solo queue pretty much died. The same thing would happen again with a solo/team queue split; the choice is in effect the same as team queue of any size.

    It's very clear that no one likes solo+duo queue. It only seems popular overall because its promoters really want team queue, but it's the closest they can get.

    ATs are not a solution for team play - even with swiss (which won't ever finish as this rate) or more frequent tournments. Teams want on-demand play (as opposed to only being able to play at certain times). The only way to achieve that is to have a team queue or do on-demand tournaments (like the ones which existed at initial release). Which goes back to my earlier comment about how the only viable team queue option is any size party.

  • SoloQ/TeamQ - Split

    @Exedore.6320 said:
    The only realistic options are solo queue and team queue of any size.

    Team queue was a far better environment, as players actually tried to work together. Many players who valued the team aspect, but were queuing solo switched to team queue. Solo queue pretty much died. The same thing would happen again with a solo/team queue split; the choice is in effect the same as team queue of any size.

    True, and I think going by what i've heard so far; it's safe to say both people who played back then, and even now are interested in the prospect of TeamQ returning, but I still think that would appeal to the more... hardcore crowd.

    The average casual ranked player isn't going to have 4 other people to queue with all the time, and probably won't go out their way to find the most optimal people to play with, as in such a low population game that can be a long and arduous process that gets more and more unforgiving the lower you are in rank.

    But still, just giving everyone, including that crowd; the option to SoloQ separately to the old TeamQ or any sort of new any-sized merged queue would satisfy. If it would eventually die as you predict, then there really isn't any harm in doing so.

    Really the only people to lose in such a case, are the people who do or would abuse merged queues to essentially farm SoloQ players sometimes 2-300 rating beneath them which...

    About a year after initial release, we had both a solo queue and a team queue. Solo queue was popular at first, but then dropped like a rock due to two main factors: 1) "me first" gameplay, which included toxic players 2) the winner was usually determined by which team had the fewest clueless players.

    ...Doesn't seem all too different from what you describe here really. Actually in the context of DuoQ or a merged queue i'd say it even exacerbates the second issue beyond anyone's control. Like, with a population as small as ranked's is; I fail to see how inserting high-disparity and/or some of the highest ranked players into a DuoQ/MergedQ, and then into a matchmaker that values time to queue over quality is going to lead to anything but them being matched with lower rated players, or "clueless" I guess. The same goes for those lower rated players attempting the same thing themselves.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • Zagerus.8675Zagerus.8675 Member ✭✭✭
    SoloQ Only

    SoloQ only. Honestly the only two paths forward that I see working out at every hour of the day is to keep queuing as is or switch to SoloQ only. The PvP population probably wouldn't be able to handle much else, especially during off peak hours. I have reasons (based on experience from this season) for supporting SoloQ only.

    1) Matchmaking with current population - Because of the current population in PvP you are inherently at a disadvantage if you do not DuoQ. While I can't prove that the matchmaker is dipping several divisions down to find players scientifically (lol), I have had several instances where I asked players who got farmed what their division was. Gold 1, Gold 2, Silver 2 are getting pulled into matches with mechanically sound Plat2+ players. This is the biggest gripe I have against DuoQ - with this kind of population it inevitably almost always slants team advantage in favor of the DuoQ not because of player skill, but the lack thereof on the other team. 501-34 matches. You're lucky to get into Plat 3 before you start facing all of the Top 50 DuoQers.

    2) Rating safety net - It probably doesn't occur that often but queuing with a friend gives you a safety net. Queue with a friend on a trash account, if things start going south just dc.

    3) I don't believe people actually just want to play with their friends - This is one of the main reasons for adding DuoQ back in. I support playing with friends. However, there are two other game modes in PvP where you can play with friends. But uh.. those don't seem to rouse as much passion as Ranked with all those cool titles and great rewards. Hmm : D It's pretty obvious that DuoQ is all about the advantage that it gives but I guess we can humor the thought of "having fun with friends" a bit more.

  • DoomNexus.5324DoomNexus.5324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2019
    SoloQ/TeamQ - Split

    @Ivantreil.3092 said:
    In a Vacuum, a split of Solo Q/Team Q would be the ideal thing to do, but the PvP population of this game can't afford said luxury, it would lead to ridiculous time waitings for the team q's.
    This community has expresed very well with the pass of the time how fighting against a team feels unfair as a solo player who can only do so much with their skills against coordinated communication.

    But most ppl (at least all of those who I know) who want a full team Q are very aware of this problem and would rather wait 20minutes or so to have one proper 5v5 than
    coin flip after coin flip, like it is atm. Solo Q only would only make it even less appealing for a good portion of the already small playerbase.
    Also without ranked full team Q there's just no need for a PvP guild (and as we've seen they are (almost?) all gone since the switch to solo/duo Q) which in return means - in my opinion - there's less incentive to play PvP at all. Just imagine raiding or fractals where you can ONLY join solo/duo.. I'd predict that PvE dies within days. Like we don't even get the possibility to lfg in PvP and I think this is also part of the low population problem.. It's just a self fulfilling prophecy at this point imo. When we argue against every change with "but the low population!" nothing will ever change and the population stays low, instead of creating more incentive to actually group up, bring friends and guild members to the game mode etc.

    @edit for a comment on my vote: If we'd get Solo(+Duo)Q and a separate team Q, please give us a split ranking for both queues as well (I think this should be very obvious but I still want to point it out, since Anet had some very obviously flawed design choices in the past as well imho).

  • SoloQ/TeamQ - Split

    @DoomNexus.5324 said:
    But most ppl (at least all of those who I know) who want a full team Q are very aware of this problem and would rather wait 20minutes or so to have one proper 5v5 than
    coin flip after coin flip, like it is atm. Solo Q only would only make it even less appealing for a good portion of the already small playerbase.
    Also without ranked full team Q there's just no need for a PvP guild (and as we've seen they are (almost?) all gone since the switch to solo/duo Q) which in return means - in my opinion - there's less incentive to play PvP at all. Just imagine raiding or fractals where you can ONLY join solo/duo.. I'd predict that PvE dies within days. Like we don't even get the possibility to lfg in PvP and I think this is also part of the low population problem.. It's just a self fulfilling prophecy at this point imo. When we argue against every change with "but the low population!" nothing will ever change and the population stays low, instead of creating more incentive to actually group up, bring friends and guild members to the game mode etc.

    @edit for a comment on my vote: If we'd get Solo(+Duo)Q and a separate team Q, please give us a split ranking for both queues as well (I think this should be very obvious but I still want to point it out, since Anet had some very obviously flawed design choices in the past as well imho).

    You're totally right in my opinion.

    If the leaderboards and queues are split, there's incentive to play both. Like people have pointed out LFG isn't exclusive to PvE, and split TeamQ gives even more reason to use it within PvP where quality over quantity matters more anyway.

    Split queue also eliminates the age-old "I just want to play with friends" excuse in a way that's actually fair to people who can't have or don't care for the luxury.

    Like some people have pointed out, merged queues and Solo only queues have failed and upset players in the past. If the low population is the excuse for not trying something new, then history is just doomed to repeat itself, and the problem most definitely is a self fulfilling prophecy. Although, I do think there's ways to make that problem much worse, as in; there have been ways queue in the past much worse and better off than others.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    SoloQ Only

    @DoomNexus.5324 said:
    But most ppl (at least all of those who I know) who want a full team Q are very aware of this problem and would rather wait 20minutes or so to have one proper 5v5

    yeah? wonder how long that would last.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭
    SoloQ/TeamQ - Split

    Solo Queue / Dual Queue split as soon as 2v2 is out, hopefully next season

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • yanniell.1236yanniell.1236 Member ✭✭✭
    SoloQ/TeamQ - Split

    SoloQ/TeamQ splited. I don't see why people who want to queue as a team shouldn't have the option to do so. Ofc, their queue time will be high, but it's their choice.

    Obviously, we would need two separated leaderboards as well.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.