Please make raids 5 man

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I sometimes wonder if legendary armor didn’t exist at all, if these threads would still exist.If they'd made legendary armor craftable when they added legendary crafting for weapons, instead of holding it hostage to strongarm people into doing something Anet themselves didn't expect most of the playerbase to be able to do, pretty much all the critics of raiding in this game would have been content to ignore raids entirely.

[Doombringer BG.3740]

Unpopular opinion: I want raids to be 20 to 50 man content. ¯\(ツ)/¯

[Krzysztof.5973]

@Doombringer BG.3740 said:Unpopular opinion: I want raids to be 20 to 50 man content. ¯\(ツ)/¯

Servers would die. I would rather get hard 3man content than LFR version of WoW raids.

[Vinceman.4572]

@Doombringer BG.3740 said:Unpopular opinion: I want raids to be 20 to 50 man content. ¯\(ツ)/¯

Since it's harder and harder to find people to raid with from month to month I personally don't think that would be a good and healthy idea for raids.

[Bakeneko.5826]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Doombringer BG.3740 said:Unpopular opinion: I want raids to be 20 to 50 man content. ¯\

(ツ)

/¯

Since it's harder and harder to find people to raid with from month to month I personally don't think that would be a good and healthy idea for raids.

If only there was guild-like system, where 40 - 50 people could join and communicate with each other :/ hmmmm.... nope, can't think of one in this game

[Vinceman.4572]

@Bakeneko.5826 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Doombringer BG.3740 said:Unpopular opinion: I want raids to be 20 to 50 man content. ¯\

(ツ)

/¯

Since it's harder and harder to find people to raid with from month to month I personally don't think that would be a good and healthy idea for raids.

If only there was guild-like system, where 40 - 50 people could join and communicate with each other :/ hmmmm.... nope, can't think of one in this game

You really think that the actual guild system is a good one that would support 20-50 man raids? Guess you haven't realized that even the 10 ppl raids don't have a decent entry point for players that are new to raids. Anet itself admitted that the grouping could have been better implemented and is a bottleneck for playing raids. The system works for raider, that's for sure but nobody has ever denied that.

[ShyFrozt.9386]

When I first started playing this game I boosted a Toon and I didn't actually know what to do in the game haha. Then I heard about raids, coz you know, loot... And well I joined one not knowing anything. The leader of the group asked if I had experience and I said no, They then told me that I should join a training group. I did and well I spent two hours in the Vale Guardian and we wiped like a lot. Eventually I had to log off because of time issues. Anyway I haven't returned to Raids because I decided that I first need to get an understanding of my Class. Well first I went on a Creating toons then deleting them because I felt like there was a better "Raid Ready" class. Now I'm just playing what I like to play (Dragonhunter and Reaper). Doing world completion and well starting to build up my Agony for Fractals. So far I'm still on T1. Luckily I have a guildie that walks me through them haha Discord is amazing for that. Anyway I feel like Raids are a goal that I have to aspire to. Like after I know what my toons can and cant do in group situations. I'm probably the last person that should have an opinion on the subject as I have no real experience on the matter. But I've experienced what happens when people that don't know what to do join a Raid. It doesn't get completed haha. The one thing I wish there was in the game, is like a voice chat. Mainly for the groups. Maybe where the leader of the group can direct the other players and tell them what to do. Mainly because when you LFG the people there wont have you on discord lol and sometimes the people in the group don't seem to respond to the chat. But yeah moral of the story. Find a guild that likes to do the content that you like to do. EG Raids. And they can help you with it. For me I know when I finally get back to raids, after I've completed fractals. I'l look at it like an accomplishment. A progression of how far I've come, and honestly I don't really want to rush it.

[Rico.6873]

First thing Anet should address is build diversity, meaning more classes that buff 10 man instead of 5 man

[Bakeneko.5826]

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Bakeneko.5826 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:

@"Doombringer BG.3740" said:Unpopular opinion: I want raids to be 20 to 50 man content. ¯\

(ツ)

/¯

Since it's harder and harder to find people to raid with from month to month I personally don't think that would be a good and healthy idea for raids.

If only there was guild-like system, where 40 - 50 people could join and communicate with each other :/ hmmmm.... nope, can't think of one in this game

You really think that the actual guild system is a good one that would support 20-50 man raids? Guess you haven't realized that even the 10 ppl raids don't have a decent entry point for players that are new to raids. Anet itself admitted that the grouping could have been better implemented and is a bottleneck for playing raids. The system works for raider, that's for sure but nobody has ever denied that.

Oh, raids have way more problems than number of players or how hard it is to get to them as new raider. You and I both know, that raid encounters in this game are "meh" at best and terrible at worst. I said it when W1 launched, I'll repeat it again: One thing WoW and Blizz did right was raids - copy them. At this point in game, i just dont care about raids since i got all rewards I can get from them. Rewards are joke, encounters boring (or just plain training golem with some particle effects). So yeah, number of palyers is not even on first page of "Why raids are bad" list.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Then they wouldn't be raids anymore.... There are fractals for groups of 5. What's the difference besides the name?

Plus there are 10 person effects now.

[Lorfi.7562]

@"Rico.6873" said:First thing Anet should address is build diversity, meaning more classes that buff 10 man instead of 5 man

Are you like not paying attention at all to the meta or just say something that should be fixed without thinking about it?Because if you try and think/look up you'll see the meta is more and more versatile.. 2years ago we had 4 free slots in raids for dps which was basically tempest or gtfo and the other 6 slots were locked for 2chrono, 2druids and 2warrios. Now we only have 3 locked slots, chrono/druid/war. War because it has 10man banners and brings great dps for support and druid for spirits and super easy 10man might, but druid can be replaced by a good boon tempest if you don't mind the loss of spirits because it can share 10man fury/might but requires more work and well most "support tempest" only play staff which is not a boon support, why druid is way more common as main healer.As for second healer we got tempest, scourge, druid, fb, ren, boonthief and scrapper that are a viable/good option depending boss (7/9 classes is totally not diversity).

As for replacement for off chrono, if you run fb or ren healer, you can replace the second chrono easily with a dps option of alacrade or quickbrand which is also very strong, but this is boss dependant what is good. Think even on MO you can get away with a boonthief and alacrade for perma boons. And if you truelly want you can run 2fb's and one alacrade without a chrono.

For dps, we got as viable power options: Reaper, chrono, tempest, weaver, dh, berserker, soulbeast, thief, deadeye, holosmith (only renegade doesn't have a good viable power dps option).For condi dps we have: scourge, weaver, mirage, renegade, firebrand, berserker, soulbeast, holosmith.

Please explain to me how we need more diversity when every class has a good and viable option in raids? you want all classes AND elite specs to be able to do all the roles and be good at it?

Just because there is a meta that some classes are just superior to clear raids in fastest time in a certain comp doesn't mean there's no diversity.

[zealex.9410]

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:I sometimes wonder if legendary armor didn’t exist at all, if these threads would still exist.If they'd made legendary armor craftable when they added legendary crafting for weapons, instead of holding it hostage to strongarm people into doing something Anet themselves didn't expect most of the playerbase to be able to do, pretty much all the critics of raiding in this game would have been content to ignore raids entirely.

Reward exclusivity is good.

[Compleo.3182]

@"Shiyo.3578" said:There is a huge issue in getting into raids for most players. Raids have declining participation rates that will only get lower as more and more people make these things exclusive. People are very rude and disrespectful to others in raids.

Pro's:-Easier to fill-More people doing them-As a single person,you contribute 20% to the groups performance instead of 10%-Less people you have to "herd" as a leader

Con's:-Slightly less interesting mechanics

There's really not many cons. The 10 man thing doesn't make raids feel more "epic" or "huge" or anything, it's just an arbitrary number that causes a much bigger barrier of entry for absolutely no reason.

The games combat does't even support raids, as boons started out at 5 people max. You've already started rebalancing entire specs and classes around giving boons to 10 people due to raids, instead of just making raids 5man.

Please re-examine raids player requirement and think of if the pro's outweigh the cons for 5 man vs10 man, anet.

Thank you.

You do not need devs to rework raids - just go as 5 man anyway, noone stops you xd . Look, you will be able to contribute 20% also. Win-win.

[maxwelgm.4315]

So this thread has come a long way and I think it's important to make sure everyone realizes that Anet has admitted it themselves that finding the extra 5 people to raid with is a hard problem to solve. Here's a post by Crystal about it long time ago: http://dulfy.net/2016/11/18/gw2-arenanet-on-raid-accessibility-and-tiers/

Not only that, it's getting harder as time goes by, not easier. I'd even say that if their release pace was acceptable and we had 10+ wings that it would be reasonably harder to even group up on discord [for the very specific encounters you want to complete] nowadays. With this said, I think raids are fine with 10 man. They could be even grander with 20, but this is simply unfeasible in this game (clearly, from how hard it is to build up a group exclusively in-game without using the available discord channels, 10 people is already pushing it).

Grouping is a real problem and not an easy one, and though OP's proposed solution is bad because we shouldn't have to profoundly change key aspects of a mode to fix a problem peripheral to it, claiming that it's no problem at all doesn't help either. Of course there are other aspects that might impact it, for example there is a reasonable large group of people who (like myself) have stopped raiding regularly after obtaining all the rewards they wanted from it, and only come back for the occasional new wing and the one-off raid; also trainers might get discouraged and leave for reasons, commanders might leave and whole groups disband instead of someone else taking over, etc. but when focusing solely on grouping it still remains a problem by itself.

[Vlad Filen.8049]

Like Teapot senpai Says "Raid need an eazy mode with less reward"

[flog.3485]

It sounds more like a game wide problem of people not being used to do organized group run to beat content that is harder than open world.

To me, it feels like the game lacks 10 men easy content that are not raids. And for that it would be better imo to have relevant 10 men guild missions.

But who knows ? With their recent update in season 5 about how they might not always release a map in the future, there is a easy solution coming up to make raids more popular and better advertise them:The new story and content is the raid.

Basically you would play the raid as an easy solo/5 men content for the story. Or play the content as a tuned up/challenging 10 men content with repeatable rewards.

That way you can have one team that is always working on a map and the other 2 larger team who always release instanced content. And a fractal team on the side who release a fractal whey it is ready.